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| Thread: Bringing down Sylvan |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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sq79
Famous Hero
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posted December 22, 2006 11:34 PM |
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Quote:
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Hey guys, just need some suggestions on best strategies with Haven vs Sylvan... I played every other faction but haven. so yeah, if the opponent concentrates heavily on defense+treants, what's the best cure for that...
i use dougal+training.
skills:
attack(retribution), def, lidership(div guid), light magic, luck(sol luck).
and how about academy? or let's put it this way - what's the best faction to play vs sylvan?
oh yea one little thing - i concentrate on late to very late game - no early rushes.
When u talk about sylvan, are you referring to playing ossir or ylthin or wynnwal? These 3 seems the best sylvan heroes i've used.
Maybe demons and haven/dougal are the best choice against sylvan cos Demons are the only faction who seem to match up on them well in initiative.
But i remember 1000 marksmen of dougal can only kill 50-80 ossir's hunters without luck of course.. No doubt ossir's hunters could only take down 100-200 marksmen with 200 hunters. But hunters usually shoot before marksmen, if he gets the warding arrows out and does a mass deflect missile ... dougal is dead as well.
Academy vs sylvan is hopeless if you're talking about full troops at late game, ie.. 10 titans versus 10 dragons, 80 druids versus 100 archmages... The development of academy heroes is not too good. THe game is usually over in 1-2 turns with the low att/def of academy heroes. And their level 2-7 creatures are almost all useless...
Sorry to the academy fans  but the titans are almost useless in the final battle since they never would get the chance to shoot against sylvan
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted December 24, 2006 03:42 AM |
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Doomforge: Druid does little damage with lightning bolt? It was about hit-n-run man, 100 marksmen losed for nothing (surrender is cheap and haven is slow). 
Anyway I was battling with Haven sometime, he had around 720 marksmen, and I had 170 Master Hunters.. Master Hunters got to act first (usually do) and killed 300 or so marksmen (150 in each shot) with Good Luck and I think Avenger critical hit. 
The Griffins were annoying with Battle Dive, though I moved my hunters and then finished them off (were in close range).
Treants are excellent for blocking your hunters (Unicors rock too since they have magic resistance). Haven was still overpowered (300 marksmen left after Master hunters, did huge damage), but point is you underestimate hunters and dragons.
Marksmen have only 4 defense.. Of course the hero adds here, but nothing compared to the Emerald Dragon's attack rating (at least under level 20).
And if you don't focus on Battle-frenzied + Necklace of the bloody claw-ed sprites, with good luck and avenger critical hit, and they hit around 3 of your creatures.. man, huge damage for their tier, just try and see  The most important thing is that they have no enemy retaliation, which "forces" you to attack and lose a turn with one of your creatures (aka marksmen) killing them (though I usually avoid placing them in battle until their numbers are decent; this game annoys me with the growth system).
Also at the same game, I saved before the battle to try a different tactic and replay it (to have fun, not to win, I already won, but that's not the most important thing for me). And I attacked the Angels with the master hunters: man, it killed around 12 or so (8 remaining from 20) with Good luck and critical hit (favoured enemy). And remember Angels have huge HP (less only than the Black Dragon) and defense is higher than Devils (can't remember about titans), plus the Haven hero's defense, so the damage the M. hunters inflicted was not too low I think
But don't just believe my words, try to test it (though I know it may take some time)
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The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
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ZombieLord
Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
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posted December 25, 2006 03:46 AM |
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what's so strong about marksmen? of course, you have many, many of them because of the training (which is EXPENSIVE btw, i remember 200 peasants -> archers with Dougal, Expert Trainer and Hall of Heroes cost 20006 gold) but nothing compared to 2k+ skeleton archers, and you get them for free through necromancy, thus you save money for other units
marksmen have good damage (especially the max damage they can inflict) but low Initiative. and don't start with Divine Strength 'cause you forget about Weakness (and btw, Inquisitors have Divine Strength on Advanced Level, but Archliches have Weakness on Expert Level: that means 2 damage for marksmen all the time!)
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted December 25, 2006 07:21 AM |
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I suggest you should play a bit more multiplayer games, get some experience, and then say marksmen are not insanely dangerous regards
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sq79
Famous Hero
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posted December 29, 2006 07:01 AM |
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Edited by sq79 at 07:05, 29 Dec 2006.
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I suggest you should play a bit more multiplayer games, get some experience, and then say marksmen are not insanely dangerous regards
Come come come... join toheroes and play toh games
You should do well with your passion in the game!
But get ready for random setups though = no choosing of heroes
U'll never wanna return to ubi after that
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Wygnall
Tavern Dweller
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posted August 22, 2007 02:20 AM |
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I think the best way to beat Sylvan is to be sylvan. when attacking, do it as tho it was any other faction.
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LiZaRdMeN
Disgraceful
Known Hero
The king of Grimheim
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posted August 22, 2007 07:31 AM |
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Quote:
Any tactics coud be used against Sylvan, they are the weakest faction in the game.
A common newbie (I hate the word n00b) is to think that the peasants is going to generate huge sums of gold, upgrade to conscripts or train to archers. Speaking about them, it is vital to upgrade the archers as soon as possible, marksmen do huge damage (up to 8!).
What,Sylvan-weak THEi are better than haven atleast.Every faction is better than haven
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted August 22, 2007 01:09 PM |
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Edited by Azagal at 13:11, 22 Aug 2007.
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You'll never get it will you?? Haven is far from weak! But if you don't know how to play, any faction is weak! And just because you don't like a faction it doesn't make if weak!! God dam it when will you ever learn?!? Geeee
But on topic i would say try to get that fog ability reduces shooters dmg by 30% and their ini by 10% but mass confusion >>> shooters anyway but it can be cleansed...
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted August 22, 2007 01:13 PM |
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Quote:
THEi are better than haven atleast.Every faction is better than haven
Yes, please ... let this be the last time we hear you post about how weak or stupid heaven is, less you provide any serious argument as to why it is so.
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What will happen now?
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yasmiel
Supreme Hero
Former Chessmaster
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posted August 22, 2007 03:34 PM |
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I would pick something over defense in your case (first thought is enlightment but 2% might hurt chances for that)
You will probably have much higher defense than your sylvan opponent has attack, thus general damage will already be reduced which in turn reduces the effectiveness of defense skill to something like 12%-13% reduction for expert defense.
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HartZa
Known Hero
watchout graveyards!
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posted August 22, 2007 04:44 PM |
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Dark magic CAN solves here. When your hero turns comes check if enemy hero is acting AFTER druids and hunters if does then use mass confusion or put frenzy on masters and hope that it triggers(magic aura from unicorns). Opponents hero will probably use cleansing but enemy still waste one turn of hunter&druids because of confusion even if he push wait for them. Because hunters and druids pressed wait button they next move will come faster BUT if you casted mass confusion this means your hero waste only half of his initiate -> your hero next turn comes faster. Now one you can keep spamming confusion and enemy keeps spamming cleansing means only few turn to druids&hunters. If he decides to give up cleaning and cast boosting light spells you need only cast counter spell for them. Righteous magic / suffering, Divine strenght / weakness, endurance / vunerability and so on. I´m not saying this will work always but at least it can give you better chances
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sdfx
Famous Hero
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posted August 22, 2007 05:00 PM |
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Well, staff of Sar-Isus, book of dark, imbue arrow with frenzy/blind, multishot can be pretty good. 3-4 stacks are off.. It's even good to have ranger with defense in that case, becasue a ranger has to imbue and opponent will probably cast mass haste.
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted August 22, 2007 05:51 PM |
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Quote:
Well, staff of Sar-Isus, book of dark, imbue arrow with frenzy/blind, multishot can be pretty good. 3-4 stacks are off.. It's even good to have ranger with defense in that case, becasue a ranger has to imbue and opponent will probably cast mass haste.
Isn't this about how to kill sylvan?? not how to kill WITH sylvan?
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sdfx
Famous Hero
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posted August 22, 2007 11:48 PM |
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It's about bringing down sylvan with sylvan
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LiZaRdMeN
Disgraceful
Known Hero
The king of Grimheim
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posted August 27, 2007 08:34 AM |
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I don't get it. How on earth haven can lose to sylvan? First turn of marksmen -> hunters are DEAD. (or, if he has emerald dragons and decide to charge, marksmen kill the dragons and imperials perform a battle dive on hunters - confirmed kill) Second turn - druids are dead (or severly crippled). What else a sylvan player can do if marksmen are surrounded by other units which don't move? Say, a huge squires stack and a paladin stack. Without hunters and with melee units left, they HAVE to charge forward and attack the blocking palas/squires, and by doing so they will be exaclty in the range of marksmen, so piercing shot will trigger and even a huge stack of ancient treants will be killed by 1 hit, not mentioning the unicorns. What's the problem?
Enemy deflect missle can be cleansed by your hero.
THat may happen against compter,but you forget ,that every sylvan creature[exept treants]Has higher initative than marksmen and probably the emerald dragons will kill all the marksmen in on hit because marksmen are very vulnerable in mele combat,With trible balista and imbue balista,Sylvan become strong enemy.YOu forget about avenger skill,if in the heros list are present marksmen,the emeralds can deal double damage to the enemy,treants will entangle the paladins,so that they will lose the stupid jousting bonus,griffins are tough and battle dive is usefull,but probably the hunters and the druids will move,so that the stupid griffin cant do anithing,,without marksmen and paladins haven become very weak and will probably die quicly 
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roy-algriffin
Supreme Hero
Chocolate ice cream zealot
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posted August 27, 2007 10:00 AM |
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but if you move your druids and hunters you lose a huge advantage. haven has more then just griffins marksmen and paladins you know, angels can be dangerous if you let haven build them up and your letting the inquisitors buff like mad (haven is faster then most of syvlan with mass haste assuming you dont have it too) not to mention the mad amount of marksmen you can get. unless you have 30 emerald dragons and a mad might hero you wont be able to kill too many of them, by then the paladin stack is insane too, and i wouldnt risk the emeralds just for a chance to kill the marksmen. not to mention if he teleports them into a clever spot before your treants your screwed. and this is all assuming you dont have tactics and didnt place a smaller paladin stack in front of the marksmen.
oh well this is a short road to getting a penalty i suppose (arguing with lizardman that is)
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"Am i a demon? No im a priest of the light! THE BLOODY RED LIGHT"
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sdfx
Famous Hero
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posted August 27, 2007 12:02 PM |
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It all depends on map richness. If map is rich so that sylvan can get all troops except treants and except some amount of druids(endurace/bolt makes them strong not some puny regular damage) then haven is owned.
If map is more rich then it varies from interesting(sylvan can get almost all troops) to pointless(sylvan is floating on cash while haven trains).
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Daystar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
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posted August 27, 2007 01:13 PM |
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Haven players should hope that the Sylvan main hero goes for the Racial Skill, because if they go for tactics then they can put their Druids and Hunters up there. Any Haven unit that gets very far across the feild is doomed to be shot, slowly and painfully.
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How exactly is luck a skill?
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted August 27, 2007 01:59 PM |
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I wouldn't count on Treant to solve the Paladin problem. With an Initiative of 7 vs. Paladins at 12 plus possibly Divine Guidance, they'll not take action before it's too late.
I do, however, think that the Sharpshooter will be an immense help for Sylvan vs. Haven, because it's one of the rare shooters with Initiative > 10, which means it'll have a very good chance of acting before the Marksmen, which might turn out to be decisive for the battle. But again, Divine Guidance might play in, if Hero acts before Sharpshooters.
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What will happen now?
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LucJPatenaude
Disgraceful
Known Hero
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posted August 27, 2007 05:47 PM |
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Comparing Light Elves to Haven Humans?
First of all: Both Elves and Humans should be allied on a permanent basis. Reason: Elves always have the upper hand on the seige approach and an improved initiative on the general battlefield.
Second: If the Haven Hero gains substantial Spell Power over the Elven Hero, the Haven one will wash out all the other side(elves) by using the level 5 spell of Chain Lightning(or is it level 4-I forgot)now, leaving only the Silver Unicorns, Ancient Treants and, Emerald Dragons. Haven has, still, 7 halved down units to deal with those remaining 3 units of the Sylvan Elves.
Third: If the Elven Hero gains substantial Spell Power to equal the Haven Hero, then, you have the scenario of which unit shoots/moves/attacks first and, so on. Chess-like tactics must come in handy. The first player to use the guiliest opportunistic approaches will be the most obvious victor of the battle being waged on the field of absolute mass killing galore. Very few will remain. To be slain by the next super army of another enemy faction.
Fourth: Always remember that it is always what you do onto the Adventure Map that will decide the inevitable outcomes of present and future battlefield victories or, utter miserable defeats. The ultimate goal to any Strategy game is: Grow your empire in as many cities as you can build or capture(huge monetary and resources follows)and, build the largest army of all the available unit types of the same/different faction(s). Your Heroes will become experienced and very keen in spell casting over time and, automatically rise to the Field-Generals of your main faction's empire. Now, let the conquest of others be without mercy. A proper advance into the unknown with more heroes reinforcing the current advancing General-in-conquest status is , also vital to that main General's success. Once you have 4 to 6 cities, it is almost, a certain victory. For an experienced Emperor such as myself.
Fifth: Late in time gamers are mostly defeated by, say, month 4-5(no matter the size of the map being in play). Month 1 and 2 always decide if you are worthy to win or, lose miserably.
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