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| Thread: The Best Shooter in HoMM5 - Round 1 |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV |
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Asheera
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
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posted December 27, 2008 05:30 PM |
bonus applied by Elvin on 28 Dec 2008. |
Edited by Elvin at 20:21, 28 Dec 2008.
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Well since this has been resurrected I'll throw in my 2 cents (also, it seems this thread is pre-TotE, but I'll include the TotE creatures as well)
What's the best shooter? The Arcane Archer, most definitely. 
But let's go analyzing the other shooters as well...
Crossbowman  very good shooter, dealing insane raw damage increased by the No Range Penalty even further. Below average hit points for its tier but not too fragile either. The biggest downfall probably is the eight initiative, which makes it act after all the other shooters. However, the Squire + Crossbowman combo is excellent at 'countering' this, since the enemy will think twice before shooting these powerful ranged creatures, because of dealing only half damage (and they'll probably target something else because of this). Also, add a Divine Strength effect which is not too hard to get for a Knight (since Light Magic is a native school), and the damage of the Crossbowman becomes even more insane.
Inquisitor oops it says in the first post "only shooter, not caster", so I guess this doesn't count
Succubus Mistress decent offensive shooter, damage is pretty good while the Chain Shot increases it to almost twice as much (187.5% more precisely). The attack and defense are pathetic for a tier 4 creature though, and the hit points are not good either (in fact, it's one of the most fragile tier 4 creatures out there). Chain Shot is also excellent at improving Hellfire, since it has a chance to target on all 4 strikes. As I said, it is an offensive shooter so they are best not being attacked, and the "Ranged Retaliation" ability fits great here because of that, making the enemy discouraged from attacking them with shooters. The Succubus becomes pretty pathetic when blocked though, so make sure they're protected from the enemy's fast creatures.
Succubus Seducer almost having a completely different use, the alternative upgrade is not as high damage dealer as the other one, but is sure powerful in her own way because of being able to puppet master a not too strong enemy stack. One major weakness compared to the other Succubus is the lower Initiative (9) and the fact that the Demon Lord has high attack and thus your units should be used more offensively (like the Mistress) rather than defensively (like the Seducer). Still, this one is the more favored choice due to the fact that it is able to 'get rid' of dangerous enemy shooters fast by seducing them.
Skeleton Archer Not too bad, especially if you can buff them up with battle frenzy and/or vitality. Sure, I'm not talking about the non-dark-energy version, where these guys simply were massacring pretty much everything. They have no abilities at all making them just a 'basic shooter', but they do their job pretty well, even though I prefer the Warriors in 90% of the cases due to not only increased stats, but also tons of useful abilities.
Lich One of the worst shooters in my opinion, because it is a large creature and easily blocked. Unfortunately they don't have any spell like their upgraded versions, which makes them very weak when blocked. The Death Cloud ability is pretty good against factions with a tight placement of units (remember: hitting three creatures will deliver double damage!). Sad is that when blocked they also lose this ability as well, and their pathetic speed doesn't help them much either in this case.
Arcane Archer Need I comment on this one? There's even a whole thread dedicated to them. One tip I can give here is that they're best used against high defense creatures, because of the 50% defense reduction which will have a greater impact, so keep this in mind.
Assassin Even though it's mostly inferior to the Stalker, it has its uses. Poisoning from a distance may prove handy against high level creatures whose retaliation would be too much for the poor tier 1s to withstand, not to mention high level creatures usually have high defense which means a better Poison effect (since poison ignores defense). The biggest weakness of the Assassin is the fact that when shooting he deals pathetic damage, without taking poison into account. And of course, there's the lack of Invisibility.
Master Gremlin A pretty good shooter. For some reason it deals pathetic damage (probably because of Wizard's low attack?), but when buffed with some mini-arties like that 'Defense Reduction per' hit one they become very useful. Also, their biggest strength lies in the ability to repair Golems, and the fact that they have very good hit points (are not fragile). Combined with the repair ability, which makes them getting targeted pretty fast to avoid some cheap Golem resurrections, their durability comes in handy.
Gremlin Saboteur Higher stats, the most important being Initiative, to compensate for the Repair ability. They also are good at disabling powerful enemy War Machines that would otherwise carnage your units (with Triple Ballista + Flaming Arrows + possibly that Ring  ). Both are useful, this one being chosen when you need a higher shooting power or when the enemy has deadly war machines, while the other one being more useful at preserving the golems.
Titan The only tier 7 ranged creature in the game, the Titan is a powerful shooter, but the fact that it is a large creature limits its shooting ability. Fortunately, it has the No Melee Penalty ability as well, and is even able to 'shoot' when blocked using the Call Lightning ability. The Immune to Mind Control is also very handy against Dark Magic enemies.
Storm Titan Pretty much the same as the Titan, only that it could prove more useful against enemies with powerful shooters, such as Sylvan.
Skirmisher Not a very good damage dealer, the Skirmisher is mostly used in combination with some runes (Thunderclap) and for his Crippling Wound ability. The No Melee Penalty ensures that it doesn't score crappy damage when blocked, so keeping them 'safe' is not a high priority (although, of course, it's better to shoot from close range and don't receive retaliation than being blocked)
Harpooner Well first of all it doesn't have the No Melee Penalty ability anymore, and the Harpoon Strike ability is useless when blocked, so the main thing to keep in mind compared with the original upgrade, is to make sure they aren't blocked easily. The Harpoon Strike may prove useful into dragging enemy shooters from their 'safe positions', or pull some enemy creatures into a Firewall, etc. Still, the Harpooner lacks the usefulness received from Soldier's Luck, like the Skirmisher, though.
Centaurs They are mostly like the Marksman/Crossbowman: fragile but dealing lots of damage. Unfortunately they are big creatures and thus blocked easily. However, they do have one ability against being blocked (Maneuver for the original and No Melee Penalty for the alternative) which probably compensates for being a large shooting creature. And the fact that their Initiative is not low like in the Crossbowman case makes them all the better, although they lack the No Range Penalty of Haven's alternative upgrade.
Bonus applied for the analysis as well as overall positive contribution to the temple.
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graystripe
Tavern Dweller
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posted December 27, 2008 09:21 PM |
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i tink u all forgot something about titans man.....they can cast lightning bolt unless they took it out in newer versions
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veco
Legendary Hero
who am I?
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posted December 27, 2008 09:26 PM |
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Edited by veco at 21:27, 27 Dec 2008.
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Quote:
and is even able to 'shoot' when blocked using the Call Lightning ability
Read carefully, hoho
Best shooter? Immunity to confusion/mind related magic, No Meele penalty so you still get beat up if you block them, Call Lightning to deal average basic dmg on range even if blocked. As a single unit, not backed up by hero abilities Titans win it by far.
@Harpooners deal fairly good damage on range: 2-5 when Skirmishers do only 2-3, don't forget that 
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none of my business.
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Asheera
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
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posted December 27, 2008 09:33 PM |
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Yes but they also have lower Hit Points.
But I agree, Harpooners deal 40% more damage while having 20% less hit points, so stat-wise they're overall better.
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InfernoX880
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted December 27, 2008 09:49 PM |
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If we all really and truly consider this, there is no such thing as a "best" shooter. They are purely matters of circumstance. What do I mean by that? Well consider this, an Arcane Archer won't do you much good if your opponent has demons that can effectively gate. In fact, most shooters are at that point rendered useless. Save for those with No Melee Penalty, like Titans and Assassins (lol, I love typing that word). So at that point we take all our fine shooters like the Arcane Archers, Crossbowmen and Centaurs (sure we'll throw them in b/c Blood Rage and large numbers make them highly effective), and they become...I don't want to say useless, but clearly not as useful as the latter of the two groups mentioned.
Scenario number 2. You're attacking a city. Well here, clearly the former of the two groups mentioned is better. Why? Because now they are actually dealing damage. It's pretty funny if the AI is stupid enough to just send those few units out the gate to get owned. But what of gating? Isn't it just as deadly? The answer is no. Much more running room, and quite often your opponent prefers the opposite side of the wall. Just knock the right walls down, even if it is randomly, and you've got some nice shots. Of course you still have to put up with the enemy's shooters, but they're receiving the same penalties you are. I think.
Scenario number 3, your mugger is asleep in his own bed...just kidding. If you have no idea what I'm talking about then this is it here. If you don't care just keep reading.
Actual scenario number 3, you're dealing with an annoying enemy hero who has a preference to casting spells. Terrible spells that deal potent damage. Well what would you use at this point? Ideally you would want the strongest shooters, i.e. the Titans (not strongest in the context we're speaking of, strongest as in most HP, ATK and DEF). But considering the other options, I would think Centaurs are the best choice here. Why? Because if you're an Orc dealing with pesky mages, even if you don't have the skills to combat them I'm assuming you're high enough of a level at that point to have some fine abilities that deal with Blood Rage. And Blood Rage is the most effective way to reduce magic damage. End of story there.
I'll think of a few more later on, but those three examples alone show each shooter is unique in his own way. But frankly, if I had one second to think, my first answer would be that the best shooter, or at least most favored, is the Arcane Archer.
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Asheera
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
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posted December 28, 2008 08:31 PM |
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I agree, there are definitely situations in which every unit is better. For instance, when Confused, some shooters are pretty pathetic compared to others like the Assassin (or the Titan who can't be confused). However, on average, there is a best shooter and that's most likely the Arcane Archer. Sure, it has counters, otherwise Sylvan would be unbeatable, but it's still very overpowered in itself.
That aside, of course I agree that each shooter has its own strengths and strategies, and that's why I explained in my previous post their characteristics (instead of just saying "Arcane Archer is the best!" and be done with it  )
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veco
Legendary Hero
who am I?
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posted December 28, 2008 08:43 PM |
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"The best shooter" in ym eyes is not only the most powerfull one (stat and growth wise) but the one who is the most reliable => there are limited counters againts it. And Titans are the most reliable. You can't confuse them nor can you truly blocked them. No Melee Penalty ensures prevailing in close combat and Call Lighting ensures that even if blocked it still does range damage.
Other shooters can get advantages under certain cirumstances (Gremlins mini arties, Marksmens Precise Shot etc) but all are vulnerable to the same counters to which Titans aren't
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none of my business.
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ColdBlast
Hired Hero
The Frozt master
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posted October 28, 2011 03:12 PM |
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Hmm.. Lots of good abilities what the shooters have. But every shooter have bad uses too.
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