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| Thread: Boycott Microsoft! |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Lith-Maethor
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posted October 24, 2001 01:45 PM |
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I rest my case...
...rogue you said it all...
BTW: MacOS X maybe not my first choice for an OS (since I don't have a Mac) but it sure is great!!!! a friend of mine installed it on his laptop (now it's a tri-boot system, MacOS 9/X/LiNUX) ...they sure put some thought on eye-candy... can't say about functionality though... haven't worked with it...
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rogue
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posted October 24, 2001 04:05 PM |
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Well, I've been using it for about 2 days now, and I'm pretty used to it and it works quite well and is quite functional.
Anyway, if you don't like their GUI, you can install other GUIs on it such as X-Windows and stuff.
Also, if you are writing software, you have access to the APIs that create all of the eye-candy and anti-aliasing. The 2D graphics engine is definitely advanced.
I really really like the font rendering in OS X...
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Lith-Maethor
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posted October 24, 2001 04:11 PM |
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if you are talking to me...
..I never said I don't like the GUI... it's great!!!
..aqua all the way... I even use an "aqua-like" theme on Gtk...
BTW: QT 3 for MacOS X is out...
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rogue
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posted October 24, 2001 04:19 PM |
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Yes, and it works quite well. I was playing it yesterday. 
And I didn't say you didn't like it, I was just saying people have other choices if they don't like it.
Anyway, looking like aqua and being aqua are two different things. You can mimic the appearance, but not it's power and capabilities.
Sadly, all those fancy graphic effects are a real strain on my laptop's processor and video chip. Well, it runs fine, but I can see the CPU monitor spike when I do certain things.
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niteshade
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posted October 24, 2001 09:31 PM |
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"So maybe there's 10 different word processors available for Windows. So what? *YOU* are only going to use one at a time anyway. "
Hmm....very true and mostly like it's going to be MS Word because that's what almost everyone uses. Granted if your a college student this doesn't may not matter to you, but in the business world you want your programs to be compatible with everyone else's or you will lose business.
"95% of computer usage is web browsing, e-mail checking, word processing, and mp3 playing. You can do that on any modern OS. So you should use the OS you enjoy using the most. "
Your forgetting games, which are one of the major driving forces of the home computer market. So basicly Linux is bad for businesses and bad for anyone who plays games, and bad for anybody who is not good with computers. So that leaves a very small market niche.
"Linux isn't any harder to use than Windows NT - in fact, I'd say its' more straightforward. I used it a great deal, and liked it much more than Windows. And I like Mac OS X even more than either of those (which means nothing to any of you, since you all have intel-compatible hardware)
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Well I find Mac OS is even easier to use then windows, which is good and bad. It's great for the computer illiterate but it's annoying not to have as many options for those who know what they are doing.
"Point is, my OS lets me do everything I want to do and much more. Linux does everything Lith wants to do and much more. Windows does almost everything anyone needs their computer to do and much more. "
Very true, I doubt anyone has ever argued this point. If you don't have much demand for games or windows based programs or compatibility with other windows users, I have no doubt that Linux or the Mac OS is the best one for you.
"The problem is that Windows crashes, abuses their customers, and ****s over everyone in the industry.
And that's why they have all of the marketshare. "
Kind of disagree here. I think they have their marketshare because they got started early on, and nobody offered any serious competition until they were already well entrenched and all programs were written with their OS in mind.
"It sucks, but that's reality. Anyway, anyone who does choose to switch to a Non-windows OS, I congratulate you. You'll realize you can do everything you typically use a computer for on any OS you pick.
The only area that hurts other Operating systems is games. Windows gets all of the games. Linux and Macintosh get a few original titles, but most of it is hand-me-downs that originally shipped for Windows. "
Ah but see that's the thing. Games are one of the biggest driving forces in the personal computer market. Not being able to play games on an OS kills it for a huge market percentage. That was in fact a big part of why Mac died out....they actualy discouraged people originaly from making games for their computer.
"Anyway, the only point is that it doesn't really matter that much - and 5 years from now it will matter even less. "
Well like I said before, it matters a great deal for businesses and game players. It's only a small niche it doesn't matter to, and most of them are people who would be intimidated to try a new operating system (ie the casual computer users).
"However, as soon as I get another PC, I"m installing Linux *and* windows on it. Windows will just be for playing games though. And I don't think the M$ market dominance will last too much longer. The thing is, the computer market is large enough that it can be shared by 2-4 oprating systems with all people involved sitll making good money."
Well that is one thing, having 2 operating systems on your computer might be a little more feasible for the average user, and may make linux more usable. Personaly though I think it would be too tedious for most. Certainly windows works well enough for me I don't feel the need to maintain a whole seperate operating system just to avoid the ocasional blue screen. I'd probably lose more time doing that then I would from the blue screens.
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rogue
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posted October 24, 2001 10:23 PM |
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Using MS Office is stupid, because you are literally *forced* to upgrade every couple years, or you will no longer remain compatible with people who did upgrade.
If you gotta use it in business because it's the trend, maybe pepole should change that trend.
MS actually removed PDF as a save format in Office because they realized it allowed people to read office documents without paying for a copy of office. That is rude and cut-throat, and I have no interest in supporting that sort of behavior.
Besiades, ther's other apps that can read office documents and save in office formats. Star Office for example - which will run on Linux or Mac OS X - and is free.
makes more business sense than Office as far as I can see.
And if people can do everything else on a computer, epople will start making games for them too, because if people are using something, they'll want to play games.
and I'm going to eat now, so I'll stop telling you where you are wrong and/or misinformed.
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niteshade
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posted October 24, 2001 10:49 PM |
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"Using MS Office is stupid, because you are literally *forced* to upgrade every couple years, or you will no longer remain compatible with people who did upgrade. "
This is not true. New versions of MS Word can still read old versions, and vice versa.
"If you gotta use it in business because it's the trend, maybe pepole should change that trend. "
The first person to try to change that trend loses business, and money and gets screwed. I am getting the sense that you don't have much business experience, especialy from an IT perspective.
"MS actually removed PDF as a save format in Office because they realized it allowed people to read office documents without paying for a copy of office. That is rude and cut-throat, and I have no interest in supporting that sort of behavior. "
Well it seems here that you are wrong once again, since to the bst of my knowledge you can still print to PDF files as long as you have both Word and Acrobat installed on your machine. It may not show up on the save as feature, but that's not a big deal.
"Besiades, ther's other apps that can read office documents and save in office formats. Star Office for example - which will run on Linux or Mac OS X - and is free. "
And which unfortunately does not do a flawless job of reading them at least based on my understanding. I must admit to not personaly testing it out though.
"makes more business sense than Office as far as I can see."
Oh yeah every business wants to be the first to use an unfamiliar format that their clients may or may not be able to read.
"And if people can do everything else on a computer, epople will start making games for them too, because if people are using something, they'll want to play games. "
Well if we are talking about home computers, then there is a serious flaw in you reasoning. Most gamers get home computers for the primary purpose of playing games. So for a gamer, the fact that it can do "everything else" is irrelevent.
"and I'm going to eat now, so I'll stop telling you where you are wrong and/or misinformed"
Probably good that you stopped, given your track record so far.
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rogue
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posted October 25, 2001 02:55 AM |
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Edited By: rogue on 24 Oct 2001
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Contrary to your belief, not everyone is a gamer.
Contrary to your belief, there are a lot more non-Windows games available than you realize.
No, StarOffice is not flawless, and MS Office is technically better - but is it $400 better? I think not.
Also, older versions of office cannot always read documents from newer versions of office. I think Office 2000, 2001, X, and XP are all compatible, but if your memory goes back a few years, 97 and 98 can't read many documents written in the newer versions *unless* the person on the newer version saves as office 97 format.
No, I don't work in the IT business. I'm a college student. I'm glad I'm still able to have free thoughts, ideas, and opinions. If I ever end up as hard-headed and owned by the corporate machine as you are, I'd kill myself.
As difficult as it must be for you to believe, us non-Windows users are actually happy with our computers. I know the idea is totally foreign to you, but that's fine. You seem content where you are.
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Lith-Maethor
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posted October 25, 2001 04:31 AM |
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rogue... if I could see you...
...I'd kiss you... okay, maybe not... I need shaving... I never thought I'd say that to a mac-user... but I LKIE YOUR STYLE!!!!!
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niteshade
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posted October 25, 2001 06:52 AM |
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Rogue.
"Contrary to your belief, not everyone is a gamer. "
I never said that they were, I only said that games are one of the primary driving forces behind personal computers. Are you actualy reading I write?
"Contrary to your belief, there are a lot more non-Windows games available than you realize. "
Once again you talk about my beliefs without any clue what they are. I am quite aware that there are a number of non-windows games out there, and I am quite aware of the small percentage they are compared to windows games.
"No, StarOffice is not flawless, and MS Office is technically better - but is it $400 better? I think not."
And once again you show a complete lack of business knowledge. It is worth every penny of what you pay to be able to communicate properly with your clients and others. Maybe you would be willing to lose a million dollar contract because you wouldn't shell out $400 dollars for a program, but most will not. Now of course if you are a college student that may be different, but we were talking about businesses at the time.
"Also, older versions of office cannot always read documents from newer versions of office. I think Office 2000, 2001, X, and XP are all compatible, but if your memory goes back a few years, 97 and 98 can't read many documents written in the newer versions *unless* the person on the newer version saves as office 97 format. "
The only time you will have a problem is if you are using features that are not available in a previous version which you should know is pretty rare. And even if you are it will usualy not be a significant problem. But if you are really worried about it, you can just save in office 97 format like you say. It's much better then the problems you'd get from say converting from from star office to MS word.
"No, I don't work in the IT business. I'm a college student. I'm glad I'm still able to have free thoughts, ideas, and opinions. If I ever end up as hard-headed and owned by the corporate machine as you are, I'd kill myself."
Ah so basicaly you realize that I was right that you have no business knowledge at all, and that you didn't know what you were talking about. But instead of admiting you were wrong you have decided to insult me by accusing me of things you have no knowledge of. Yeah I sure your a real mature free thinking individual. And for the record I work for the non profit academic world and not exactly a corporate machine. But I'm sure your not going to let the facts distract you from your insults.
"As difficult as it must be for you to believe, us non-Windows users are actually happy with our computers. I know the idea is totally foreign to you, but that's fine. You seem content where you are. "
Once again....I have typed on 3 seperate occasions that I'm sure non windows users are quite happy with their computers and that they work great for them. Apparently you don't read what people write before responding to it. As a result your probably not worth talking to. At least Llith actualy seemed to read what I wrote and made far fewer mistakes in what he said.
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rogue
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posted October 25, 2001 07:48 AM |
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Quote:
...I'd kiss you... okay, maybe not... I need shaving... I never thought I'd say that to a mac-user... but I LKIE YOUR STYLE!!!!!
yeah, I'm just cool like that.
Anyway, I'm going to sleep because I'm too tired to even decide if I should waste my time replying to the walking MicroSoft commercial.
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niteshade
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posted October 25, 2001 08:35 AM |
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"Anyway, I'm going to sleep because I'm too tired to even decide if I should waste my time replying to the walking MicroSoft commercial. "
Once again you prove that you don't bother to read what I write. I have certainly stated that microsoft has it's problems and that different programs work better for different people. This hardly makes me a "walking MicroSoft commercial"
Unless your going to start being mature, I am going to ask that you in fact dont waste your time or more importantly my time replying to what I say. It became quite obvious you didn't have much left to say when you resorted to random personal insults and saying things without basis. It may well be that you are capable of inteligent argument, but you certainly are not showing it here.
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Sha_Men
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posted October 25, 2001 08:46 AM |
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Hmm...
What comes to rogue...
It's possibly he was just joking...
But for me Nightshade you started really also sound like "walking Microsoft commercial".
I have sometimes thought even commenting some of the things you have writed Nightshade but I don't like "Quote replies" where you copy few sentences and comment that. I have said my opinion about this earlier but it's kinda annoying because it leads that you aren't really judging whole message of person and trying to find some kind of new perspective but instead hack down what other one just said word by word. What I have seen this just leads to thing that other one of poster gets enough and leaves. Just like now happened. However still can't say what Rogue thought...
What comes to real issue here...Thing is that many people are frustrated to Microsoft products and their marketing but don't want to change them as they don't know any other product really. They can of course blame themselves because there are other possibilities. I would really like to see tougher competition so Microsoft would have to change it policy. But can't really blame the company as companies are for making money.
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niteshade
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posted October 25, 2001 09:14 AM |
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Well in respect of your preferences I will try to avoid quoting you in this reply . The main reason I do this is because people often make lots of points I want to reply to, and it's easier to do this if I quote the entire message and reply to different parts individualy. When possible I always try to copy the entire paragraph so I don't take people out of context. Without quoting it would be hard to correct all of rogue's mistakes and to defend myself against every individual random insult, lol.
In regards to my being a "walking microsoft commercial" really all I was explaining is why businesses and consumers use microsoft and are unlikely to switch to something else in the near future. I'm not saying I like it, but I'm just stating the truth. If you look at my past posts, you will not that I have certainly said that there are problems with MS, and that I had no doubt that there were superior OS's out there for the needs of many people. But then I explain why the average person uses, and will continue to use Microsoft even when other programs are better. This does not mean I like it, I'm just realistic about it. If somebody disagrees with me that is fine, but I do expect them to actualy read what I write before posting, and not say I think something that I have specificaly said on many ocasions that I do not think.
Now I don't mind you who are new to this conversation saying that in a polite way. But I have explained to Rogue on many occasions what my feelings are and corrected him when he said I felt something that I did not, only to have him say it again in his very next post. This along with his random insults (ie calling me hard headed and owned by the corporate machine when all I was doing was explaining why businesses use microsoft, and when I actualy work for a non profit humanitarian organization)made me lose all respect for him. In his last few posts he has primarily focused on misquoting and insulting me and has barely even bothered to defend his previous posts or continue to have a rational argument. I realize he is passionate about his cause, but this is just rude and immature.
This would be bad enough in the average poster, but Rogue is a moderator. He is supposed to be an example for proper behaviour on this board. He is not supposed to go around insulting people and acting immature.
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Sha_Men
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posted October 25, 2001 09:32 AM |
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Thank you.
I read your message. (Just believe it!)
I agree with you about Microsoft. It's good for average users and usually advanced know better what they want and maybe they turn into some other product or not.
What I see as problem with Microsoft is that it has kinda "ceased" the development of programs and only created "standards" that sell year by year. As Microsoft has also been succesful in marketing people have gone buy it's products and not others. I use Microsoft products and sometimes they seem to crash without reason. Still I do my decision with my wallet and don't go yelling to other people what to buy.
You have maybe seen also before that Rogue has his way telling things and it's possible he didn't meant anything. I just stated that quote replys sometimes irritate me. Not really in this forum but other ones where sometimes every single message is "counterattack" after counterattack. Everybody starts repeating itself and start really sound like broken record.
When Rogue comes back I think you should ask why he used such a words and where they truly intentional. Of course Mods should show example but people and mods are different so this can be also be just humour and way of his to say he you are dead wrong. I'm not defending him as I can have read those posts but I think you shouldn't take those things too seriously.
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niteshade
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posted October 25, 2001 09:52 AM |
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Well I'm fairly certain he didn't phrase his comments as a joke. It was hardly phrased in a funny way, and it's somehow hard to take somebody insulting you and saying they would kill themselves if they were like you as being meant to be funny (even if it was funny how wrong he was in what he said about me). And I certainly already confronted him about it in one of my last posts and his only response was to say he wasn't sure he wanted to waste time replying to a "walking microsoft commercial".
I realize language barriers often lead to miscommunication, but I'm fairly certain that rogue and I both speak english as our native language (or at least that his english is very good if not), and there was really no mistaking that his tone was not meant to be funny, but was meant to be insulting and to lash out at me. And all I said to provoke it was that he obviously didn't have much business experience, which he admited I was right about.
Of course this wasn't the only offence he made, but it was the most blatant and immature one.
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Gunnrunner
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posted October 25, 2001 10:03 AM |
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Hmmmm, boycott mirosoft? I agree buut how the hell are we goina do that, they control each and every one of our computers. Unless your an apple person. Te thing is microsoft wont be plit up untill the next time the Demos beat the Repubs.
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rogue
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posted October 25, 2001 05:14 PM |
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Edited By: rogue on 25 Oct 2001
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I didn't want to do a long quote reply here, but this is the only way I'll be able to keep my thoughts organized enough to be taken seriously and not replied to out of context.
Quote:
"Contrary to your belief, not everyone is a gamer. "
I never said that they were, I only said that games are one of the primary driving forces behind personal computers. Are you actualy reading I write?
Obviously I'm reading what you write - and if you are saying games are one of the primary driving forces behind computer sales, you are implying that most people are hardcore gamers. I'm saying I disagree. I think games are secondary.
Obviously in the corporate sector, a company's not going to order 20,000 computers from DeLL and then install the fastest video card in each machine so their employees can have a 3D-Solitaire Capture the Frag Deathmatch at work. So that comment must have been targeted at the home market.
So, my sister never plays games on the computer except sometimes Solitaire. She does the e-mail and chat thing, surfs the web, but has no interest in playing games on the computer. many of the people I know or work with are the same way - or when they do play games, it's little simple things like Solitaire or online Trivial Pursuit or something. Many people just aren't that intereted in games, or would prefer to play their games on a console instead of a computer. Yet, these people still have computers. So again, I think it's secondary.
Me, I really like games, but with work and class getting in the way, I don't have time to play many games at a time. I mean, I usually focus on one or two games. Like a long RPG like Baldur's Gate II or a strategy game like Heroes III I'll play them almost exclusively for months - but I might only have time to play them a handful of times in a month. I'll also have a few quickie games like Quake III or StarCraft lying around that I can play when others are interested.
So, as much as I like games, I don't have time to play them much. Yes, I did buy a laptop with a 3D accelerator just so I could play games on it, and I consider myself to be a "gamer" and yet I find that there are more than enough games available on my non-windows platform. More games than I would ever have time to play.
But I didn't buy the computer becaues I wanted to play games - games did cause me to lean towards the laptop with the decent (at the time) 3D, but the reason I bought the computer was to do programming, web design, homework, write my monthly column, check e-mail, stay in touch with lost friends, and argue with people on message boards.
(and yes, that last part was a joke like everything else I say - it's my odd form of sarcasm)
So, my purchase was not "Oh! I can play 3D games on this laptop?!? Here! take my money!" it was more like, "this is a very nice computer... oh, and I can play games too..."
Quote:
"Contrary to your belief, there are a lot more non-Windows games available than you realize. "
Once again you talk about my beliefs without any clue what they are. I am quite aware that there are a number of non-windows games out there, and I am quite aware of the small percentage they are compared to windows games.
That is correct - There are many more games available for Windows - but most of the ones that aren't available for Macintosh suck anyway. There are some exceptions - like Sierra's Half-Life blunder a coule years ago - and I think it would be cool if there was a Mac version of games like Half-Life or EverQuest, but for the most part, it's junk. I mean, I don't need the Barbie and Pokemon games, and there's a million weak RTS games that are all trying to mimic each other and failing in essential areas of game balance.
If games are someone's #1 priority in getting a computer - (and I am aware that there are many people who this is true for) - they probably should be using Windows - or better yet, a console system.
Quote:
"No, StarOffice is not flawless, and MS Office is technically better - but is it $400 better? I think not."
And once again you show a complete lack of business knowledge. It is worth every penny of what you pay to be able to communicate properly with your clients and others. Maybe you would be willing to lose a million dollar contract because you wouldn't shell out $400 dollars for a program, but most will not. Now of course if you are a college student that may be different, but we were talking about businesses at the time.
You sure do like saying I have a complete lack of [insert topic here] knowledge for someone who is complaining about a few sarcastic observations.
Now, if you are in the position where you have clients, you pretty much need to own every office suite that is available because you don't want to lose a client because you aren't compatible - and therin lies many people's dislike of MicroSoft. They intentionally create incompatibilities in things that could and should be standard technologies because they want to be in control of it and profit from it.
They do it in the OS and Application world. They did it with Java. They're trying to do it to the web. Do you want to start paying for each page view? Microsoft did not invest so much money into developing Internet Explorer and then give it away free to be good citizens. There were already better browsers available at the time. They definitely seek to profit in the future. They even forced Apple to install Internet Explorer on every Mac they ship. The threat? "Put IE on every Mac, or we won't release Office 98 for Macintosh" - and the app was already done. And of course, that would completely kill the use of Apple's computers in busineses.
Now that I'm off of my tangent, back to business. Yes, if you have clients, you need Office. But if you are a company that would be somebody's client, you can use whatever you want to communicate internally, and if, let's say 3 advertising agencies are competing for your business and one has to back out because their word processors are incompatible with yours, it's their loss, not yours. You still have 2 other advertising agencies to choose from.
Now, the real problem. These things should *not* be incompatible. I mean, you ever look at a word processing document? I'm sure you have, and what do you see? Text. Blah. Anybody can do that.
You notice how e-mail works, no matter who you're talking to, what computer they have, or what e-mail client they're using? That's because it's an open standard. Anybody can check out the standard and write an e-mail client that works with it.
The web is still (mostly) like that, but Microsoft's .asp stuff is trying to change that. Funny thing is you can do all the same stuff using PHP and that is handled server side, so the web browsers get plain html pages - thus it sticks with the standard and works on all browsers.
Why would microsoft prefer .asp? They can make money off it. They can eventually change the protocol slightly and then people will be forced to use IE if they want to view many of the pages on the net. And then MS can charge to use IE - or maybe windows users will get to use it for paying their 6-month XP fee.
And if they do decide to change the .asp protocol, everyone using a Microsoft Web Server (which is less than half, but still a significant amount) will be forced to pay Microsoft for upgraded web server software, because microsoft recently changed it's licensing agreement with corporate customers that they must "upgrade, whether they want to or not". Sure, they can pass this off as having some benefits - everyone's on the same page, and a security fix will be installed quickly by everybody, but based on their track record, they are also going to use this to force another free and open standard (the web) into their greedy pockets.
I don't think anybody wants to see that happen.
Now, to word processors. Again, it's just text. There is no reason it can not and should not be a open standard format. I mean, all word processors have the same basic features. Like e-mail clients, some have more bells and whistles (better spell checkers, more fonts, etc) but there's no reason there can't be a common formatting scheme used by all of them so that only special things unique to one application won't work in other applications. Of course, this will never happen, because Microsoft wiggled their way into having an incredibly huge share of the Office software market, and an open standard would allow competition. Where they are now, they are using their monopolistic power to make it impossible for another suite of office applications to compete because another suite of office applications would be incompatible with what most people are using. Again - that is not right.
Fortunately, StarOffice (and othes) can import and export MS Office format. This offers a low-cost alternative for people and smaller businesses. Yes, it doesn't work perfectly, but, as you say in the paragraph below, "The only time you will have a problem is if you are using features that are not available in a previous version which you should know is pretty rare."
Quote:
"Also, older versions of office cannot always read documents from newer versions of office. I think Office 2000, 2001, X, and XP are all compatible, but if your memory goes back a few years, 97 and 98 can't read many documents written in the newer versions *unless* the person on the newer version saves as office 97 format. "
The only time you will have a problem is if you are using features that are not available in a previous version which you should know is pretty rare. And even if you are it will usualy not be a significant problem. But if you are really worried about it, you can just save in office 97 format like you say. It's much better then the problems you'd get from say converting from from star office to MS word.
See, you're using a double-standard here. The broken backwards compatibility in Office is fine as long as its' MS Office to MS Office, but if something goes wrong converting from MS Office to StarOffice, StarOffice is automatically a bad choice acording to what you said above. The truth is, it's not that hard convert - again, it's just text. The only difficult part is getting in all of the invisible header elements Microsoft adds for tracking and compatibility-breaking purposes.
And yes, if you have a new version of Office , you can save in Office 97 format - but if you have Office 97 and your client has a newer version, are you going to tell their whole company to save in Office 97 format? I think not. Thus, you are forced into upgrading, becaue that would be an unreasonable demand to make on your client.
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"No, I don't work in the IT business. I'm a college student. I'm glad I'm still able to have free thoughts, ideas, and opinions. If I ever end up as hard-headed and owned by the corporate machine as you are, I'd kill myself."
Ah so basicaly you realize that I was right that you have no business knowledge at all, and that you didn't know what you were talking about. But instead of admiting you were wrong you have decided to insult me by accusing me of things you have no knowledge of. Yeah I sure your a real mature free thinking individual. And for the record I work for the non profit academic world and not exactly a corporate machine. But I'm sure your not going to let the facts distract you from your insults.
Ah, so basicaly, you decide to make a bunch of assumptions about me and once again brag about how right you always are.
And having no business experience and no business knowledge are two different things. I'm not blind. I do see what's going on in the world, and I see the steps Microsoft is taking to rape us and our money. I don't intend to support their actions towards these ends.
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"As difficult as it must be for you to believe, us non-Windows users are actually happy with our computers. I know the idea is totally foreign to you, but that's fine. You seem content where you are. "
Once again....I have typed on 3 seperate occasions that I'm sure non windows users are quite happy with their computers and that they work great for them. Apparently you don't read what people write before responding to it. As a result your probably not worth talking to. At least Llith actualy seemed to read what I wrote and made far fewer mistakes in what he said.
Yes, you say we're quite happy with our computers, and then write as though it's completely infeasible to not be using Windows and giving cash to Microsoft. You write as though it's completely infeasible to not be using Office, and in some cases, that is true, and yet nobody seems to realize the trap that's being laid out for them. Of course most people are alerady so far into the trap that a little more here and there doesn't seem like much. People are too content to just take what's dealt to them instead of exploring alternatives.
And anything I said about Macs also applies to Linux - except for the fact that there are less games for Linux, but it's still a developing market.
Also, I generally don't like to pick apart a post like this, because I think it's kinda anal to do so, but maybe that's the way to go. Microsoft fans are so used to taking it up the ... from MS that anal might be the only thing they understand.
(and that was a half-joke/half-truth not aimed at you necessarily or specifically - just thought I'd say that before I get another complaint)
Anyway, I don't mean to offend, and if you are offended by something I say, you can tell me instead of complaining in front of everyone. Or you can just tell Valeriy and ask him to take away my Mod power if it makes you feel better.
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Answers to Everything
http://help.paulinetown.com
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CraigHack
Known Hero
Have fantasies, will travel...
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posted October 25, 2001 06:21 PM |
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Rogue ol buddy..... Somehow this thread has changed your community persona. You have not, to my knowledge ever been
insulting to the visitors. Don't lose your perspective!
I guess you are passionate about the subject but, you are a student. Students are supposed to be passionate about their interests but you need to keep in mind that passion doesnt make you right or wrong. Many students, believe it or not, change their minds about a lot of things when they have a wife, 2 kids and a mortgage. Linux/Unix/Mac may all be better than MS! It doesnt matter, when you get a job, if it's mainstream IT, you WILL work with MS. They tried to convert me 15 years ago to Linux but, in all honesty, I'm happy I didnt go. It wasnt mainstream then and it's not now.
You say that games are not important but I tell you that the ONLY reason for 2 Gig machines with 64 Mg DDR AGP Video cards is games. Games drove the demands for high end machines to where they are. If you want to write a novel I have an old 386 here that will do that with no trouble at all. And... you can do it with DOS or WIN 3.1, your choice.
You can even get an emulator that will convert your COBOL source code into Basic if you want, but thats for real geeks. (Thats scary, I learned to program in COBOL 8)
Only a fanatic will maintain and learn to use 2 or 3 OS's on their business machines. There is no logical reason for that. Except maybe job security for a paranoid systems geek.
If the argument is whether Linux/Unix/Mac is better than MS then lets all agree that you are right and we can get back to using our MS.
A wise man told me once, "You tell me whats right and I'll tell you whats real".
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The Gods have brought us together... I can't imagine why.
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rogue
Promising
Famous Hero
Prosecutors Will Be Shoplifted
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posted October 25, 2001 06:57 PM |
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Edited By: rogue on 25 Oct 2001
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Rogue ol buddy..... Somehow this thread has changed your community persona. You have not, to my knowledge ever been
insulting to the visitors. Don't lose your perspective!
Well, I've also always been known to be sarcastic.
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I guess you are passionate about the subject but, you are a student. Students are supposed to be passionate about their interests but you need to keep in mind that passion doesnt make you right or wrong.
I'm not really passionate about anything. I'm just very interested in computers, and Microsoft continually wishes to force technology to stagnate where it is (with them in control) and they kill off or steal most innovative ideas. The innovative ideas are the reason I'm interested in computers. And by "innovative idea" I don't mean "innovative new ways to rip people off:"
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Many students, believe it or not, change their minds about a lot of things when they have a wife, 2 kids and a mortgage.
Change their minds? Or accept their situation in life because they need the money?
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Linux/Unix/Mac may all be better than MS! It doesnt matter, when you get a job, if it's mainstream IT, you WILL work with MS. They tried to convert me 15 years ago to Linux but, in all honesty, I'm happy I didnt go. It wasnt mainstream then and it's not now.
Actually, a lot of major coprorations use unix based systems, and a lot of IT people have jobs working with unix systems. But yes, it is typically Windows on the end-user's desktop. However, this "You WILL work with MS" mentality is scary. I mean, it makes all of the Microsoft/Borg comparisons sound real.
I've been taught that you should question everything and always look for a better way.
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You say that games are not important but I tell you that the ONLY reason for 2 Gig machines with 64 Mg DDR AGP Video cards is games. Games drove the demands for high end machines to where they are.
Well, I'm not going to get into intel's processor marketing strategy here, because that would be another long rant, but yes, games are one of the factors that really drove up processor speeds. However, the other factor was AMD becoming a feasible competitor to Intel. You see, competition causes everyone involved to work hard.
The fact that Microsoft has no threatening competition right now has the opposite effect in the sense that they don' t need to work really hard to impress anyone, because they know all of the IT zombies are going to take what's dealt.
And I mean zombies. When an IT job boils down to taking a test to get Microsoft certified and then doing little more than updating computers with whatever MS sends them, you are a zombie. And I don't mean to belittle IT jobs, and I know it's not as simple as that, but there is no free-thinking or creativity involved. It's all by the book. "oh. the server crashed. click here, change this setting, switch that. ok. it's fixed now."
Most IT people I've talked to are not interested in alternative technologies that are available, even if it could save lots of money in the long run. They aren't interested in their own fields beyond knowing whatever Microsoft wants them to know.
Heck, even I use Windows on a daily basis, and I used to use Linux everyday as well. If a job requires something, you do it. That much is certain, but it doesn't mean you can't experiment and at least be well informed about other options. At my job, everything is MS-based, but me and a couple other guys at work argued for the web server to be on Linux using Apache instead of Microsoft's IIS servers. And we won the argument and we like the web server.
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Only a fanatic will maintain and learn to use 2 or 3 OS's on their business machines. There is no logical reason for that. Except maybe job security for a paranoid systems geek.
well, learning an OS is easy. the fundamental concepts are all the same. point mouse at something, click to make something happen. You are right that it would be silly to have multiple OSes on a business computer, and I was never suggesting otherwise. But everyone's computer doesn't have to have the same OS. There are a lot of capable cross-platform technologies available. It's just that Microsoft is opposed to all of them because it's a threat to their OS monopoly.
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If the argument is whether Linux/Unix/Mac is better than MS then lets all agree that you are right and we can get back to using our MS.
I'm not trying to convert anybody, I'm just trying to say that MS doesn't own the world (yet) and nobody has to let them do it. This thread is called boycott Microsoft. I didn't start it. I'm just making it clear to others that there are alternatives if they want to boycott Microsoft.
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A wise man told me once, "You tell me whats right and I'll tell you whats real".
You told me about your perception of reality, not reality itself. Nobody can really know what reality is, because your experiences are what makes your reality.
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Answers to Everything
http://help.paulinetown.com
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