|
| Thread: The US always pissing and moaning about countries pissing and moaning about the US |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · NEXT» |
|
baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
|
posted May 16, 2007 11:13 PM |
|
|
The US always pissing and moaning about countries pissing and moaning about the US
What did you guys expect anyway? Playing cops with the world and stuff... Countries tend not to like other countries telling them what to do, especially like campaigns like "get rid of all your nuclear weapons but we'll keep our own just in case" or "Osama Bin Laden blowed our buildings up but we already did Afghanistan so we'll do Iraq now too... it's all the same eastern crap anyway". I mean sheesh. I don't hate you guys (I could, I have more than enough reasons for hating your country, but I don't) but don't be surprised that some people do.
____________
"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
|
|
SwampLord
Supreme Hero
Lord of the Swamp
|
|
posted May 16, 2007 11:56 PM |
|
|
Don't be suprised that some people in the US don't like other countries. We've bailed Europe's collective butt out of the fire several times.
Oh, and about the Osama Bin Laden quote- That's a bit insensitive and uninformed. It's also offensive. The invasion of Afghanistan was in response to 9/11.
Also, what need do most countries have for nuclear weapons? The weapons themselves are ironic, as they are only needed as a deterrent against other countries with them, thus leading to proliferation. The only thing is, most countries aren't in a situation where their main potential enemy has nuclear weapons. Also, you have to admit the US government is a little more stable then Iran's when it comes to nukes.
I believe, if there was a way to rid the world of nukes, the US would be all for it. Unfortunately, since neither side trusts the other, there we go. Locked back in the cycle.
|
|
Colonel_here
Adventuring Hero
Descendant of Ghengis Khan
|
|
posted May 17, 2007 05:57 AM |
|
|
I don't see the issue with nuclear weapons as being the one of stability but rather the political power they represent. Countries that have nuclear arms get treated differently by other countries.
With North Korea the whole time before their nuclear bomb test the nations kept on saying stop or we will do something against you. Constantly that was what the countries pushed on, they were threatening North Korea in different ways. Now after it tested its bomb the threats stopped and instead the countries started to offer something in return if North Korea will stop enriching uranium.
I don't see what US is doing as anything wrong since it is trying to secure a controlling position in the world before the second superpower will enter the global scene. Of course the Iraq has been miscalculation, I don't think US was planning to spend so much time pacifying it.
____________
"The job of saving the lives of those who are sinking is the task of those who are sinking" - Ostap Bender
"Only a fool fights a battle he knows he can not win" - Ghengiz Khan
|
|
violent_flower
Promising
Supreme Hero
Almost there.
|
|
posted May 17, 2007 06:11 AM |
|
|
Quote:
The invasion of Afghanistan was in response to 9/11.
BS, it was about oil and money in the fecal lined pockets of Mr. Bush. Lets get the facts straight, the 9/11 incident was nothing more than an excuse..
We go where we are not wanted and spend more time in other countries playing with our tinker toy military then we do anywhere else. Shame on us and shame on the sick behavior of the president.
____________
Learn how to duck and weave because I will throw truth at you all day!
|
|
MightyMage
Honorable
Legendary Hero
of INSANITY and DELICIOUSNESS
|
|
posted May 17, 2007 08:01 AM |
|
|
What you said is right...in a way. A few details to clear it up.
Osama Bin Laden was not always a "known" terrorist, at least not by today's standards. Back in the day (1980's) he was the leader of a group of liberators trying to re-claim Afghanistan from Russia who at the time was occupying the country.
Whether the US helped fund his operations or armed him is still a mystery considering Bin Laden was quite wealthy. The US government denies the claims of funding Bin Laden in any way but since when have they been completely trustworthy. What IS known is that due to American support given to Israel, Bin Laden hated us.
Now before I continue, I must stress that what I "know" is only based off of what I've heard while talking with a few Arabic friends that I work with and what I can remember from my Government and Civics classes.
From what I've gathered, Bin Laden won his war in Afghanistan and drove out the Russian occupation. Throughout the 90's his name would pop up as a suspect in a bombing here or a killing there. Apparently he was wanted by the US government for questioning and all that in 1998 after it was reported that he was involved in the killing of five Americans and two Indians in a truck bombing. I believe at that time, President Clinton had plans to invade Afghanistan in order to retrieve Bin Laden. He warned that any attacks on Afghanistan would result in a retaliation.
President Clinton withdrew the idea.
President Bush however didn't seem to care. Either he didn't take Osama seriously or he thought we would be able to stop any attack before it happened. Either way he was wrong. I don't side with that terrorist bastard in any way but I do believe our President rushed into things and didn't think things through.
Now we are in what is starting to look like a never ending war with Iraq. I thought personally that the reason for that war was to remove Saddam from power and replace him with a working democracy. We did that didn't we? Then why are we still there? We won. It's over.
I've stated in other threads how I feel. I totally understand that many countries dislike America and in order to understand why you need to actually leave the country for a bit and then come back. We need to just admit the truth. We are the only country that reminds everyone else, on a daily basis, that we are the greatest country on Earth. Just think there, if was a guy at your office or place of work, who every day stood up and said "I'm the greatest $#*@! here! And you sniveling monkys would all die without me! Gahaha!!" I guarantee by the end of the week, you would've killed him...and eaten him, just to see if you could possess his power.
____________
Though I must still bow
in awe for the awesomeness that is
MightyMage. For he is all I could ever
want to be! - OhforfSake
|
|
Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
|
|
posted May 17, 2007 09:20 AM |
|
|
omg, so part of you still believes in Osama bin laden?
US had to pick some scapegoat after the 9/11, the lot fell to osama. :-X
Bush & his ppl wanted oil and power, not some stupid taliban guys armed with kalashnikov at best. Don't you think?
Where are the US forces, why don't they stop civil wars in africa, why not the mad Kim of korea? Why hussein, why the alleged nuclear and chemical arsenal which turned out not to exist? Don't you see it guys? The real threat lives and keeps enlarging his army; the dictator which could make other countries laugh at best is dead, the country is in ruins, thousands of young soldiers are dead.. is this the way to fight terrorism?
I have nothing against US btw. it's the whole infantile explanation of the war that annoys me.
don't forget that US never said what really happened to pentagon, too.
http://www.pentagonstrike.co.uk/
-_-
|
|
baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
|
|
posted May 17, 2007 10:23 AM |
|
Edited by baklava at 10:24, 17 May 2007.
|
Quote:
I don't see what US is doing as anything wrong since it is trying to secure a controlling position in the world before the second superpower will enter the global scene.
Well that IS wrong, you see. It's trying to control the world. Look at what happened to other would-be controllers of the world (Romans, Napoleon, the Reich, Soviets...).
It cannot be done. Balance of at least 2 (actually the more the better) superpowers needs to be kept or the ruling superpower will be able to force ANYTHING from other countries. I mean, remember Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The US won the war and no one said anything about that. The winners do whatever they want, and that needs to be prevented.
Quote:
Shame on us
If I have learned anything from living where I live, it's that certain people should stop feeling shame for what propaganda-driven masses and people on the top do. Be proud of who you are and the opinion you have. Blaming yourself leads you nowhere.
I wonder what will happen when they spend all the oil from Iraq... And all tinier countries that have it. Who will be the next enemy of democracy? Will they attack Europe just to take the oil from Norway? Or Russia, to take it from Siberia or wherever?
Cause they've already completely proven that they would rather kill thousands than look up another source of energy...
By they I mean guys on the top of course
____________
"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
|
|
Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted May 17, 2007 10:37 AM |
|
|
Quote:
BS, it was about oil and money in the fecal lined pockets of Mr. Bush. Lets get the facts straight, the 9/11 incident was nothing more than an excuse..
The US went into Afghanistan because of oil? That's interesting considering that Afgan oil is completely insignificant to the US. If we import any oil at all from Afghanistan it's less than 0.001%. It doesn't even make it to the list of top 75 oil exporters to the US.
Nothing more than an excuse? Right, oil is nothing more than an excuse to bash Bush. It has no basis in fact whatsoever. Don't get me wrong, I don't like Bush either, but there are plenty of legitimate reasons to bash him without people making this stuff up.
And for the record, Iraq is the 7th largest exporter to the US. (approx the same as Ecuador and UK combined) Oh, I forgot, we went into Iraq because of oil also. I guess that explains why there was an embargo on Iraqi oil, because we wanted more oil.
|
|
TitaniumAlloy
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Professional
|
|
posted May 17, 2007 10:38 AM |
|
|
|
Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
|
|
posted May 17, 2007 11:56 AM |
|
|
Quote:
And for the record, Iraq is the 7th largest exporter to the US. (approx the same as Ecuador and UK combined) Oh, I forgot, we went into Iraq because of oil also. I guess that explains why there was an embargo on Iraqi oil, because we wanted more oil.
Then tell me good sir, what is the point of this stupid war which has already killed thousands of soldiers and civilians. Neither afghanistan, nor Iraq was a threat to the world. Sorry, but they had just a bunch of small guns and big mouths. Clearly wasn't worth the life of those who died there, because there was no threat, nothing to fight for. I hope you won't say "because US wants to destroy terrorists" ; they have already lost more men(and the occupied countries' civilians) than they would lose to 100 terrorist strikes in a row :|
iran and korea are building nuclear arsenal and nobody cares, but iraqis and talibans with a bunch of ak-47s were sooooooooooo dangerous. Yea, ofc.
What, they could blow themselves in public places? A lot of people from iran can/want to blow themselves aswell and nobody invades iran because of it.
|
|
baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
|
|
posted May 17, 2007 12:46 PM |
|
|
Well yeah but that's because Iran and Korea actually HAVE nuclear weapons... The US declares war on countries accused to have weapons of mass destruction only if it definitely KNOWS that that country doesn't have any  Because countries who DO have WMDs would launch them in retaliation if someone attacks them...
Seems confusing but it isn't actually... By conquering countries who allegedly have WMDs but really don't, they think they demonstrate their might and courage to the world; a sure win. As Caligula said, let them hate us as long as they fear us. However, they lost a bit more troops in Iraq than planned; but withdrawal would mean weakness... That's probably how Bush and other apes think about that.
____________
"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
|
|
Colonel_here
Adventuring Hero
Descendant of Ghengis Khan
|
|
posted May 17, 2007 04:43 PM |
|
|
AS rightly was pointed out that the countries that have nuclear weapons won't get attack because there is a chance that one of their missiles would land on US soil and than the whole country will go into anarchy.
Marching into Afghanistan (supported by UN) was a necessary response by US because they had to show their citizens that they will do something about people attacking their country and not just sit on their ass.
Iraq was a logical attack because US lacked any type of control or influence in the region. There are very few US military bases in that region.
Osama bin Laden states three reasons for jihad against US:
1) Bases in the Saudi Arabia --> sacred land of the Muslims, where no foreign soldier is allowed to step
2) Support of Israel
3) No support for formation of Palestenian state
With invasion of Iraq one can solve the reason number 1 by just moving the military bases out of Saudi Arabia into Iraq. Plus proximity of US military to Iran. Could scare Iran to listening to US. If that doesn't do it placing several missles with nuclear warheads in Iraq will scare Iran for sure.
AS for the reasons why doesn't US help out in Africa. Well why should it, what is the benefit to American people?
I don't know what was exactly US administration thinking when they were going into Afghanistan and Iraq but it was clear that this is not going to be something accomplished in vew months. And they can't leave those countries because the governments that were set up there would collapse immediately.
____________
"The job of saving the lives of those who are sinking is the task of those who are sinking" - Ostap Bender
"Only a fool fights a battle he knows he can not win" - Ghengiz Khan
|
|
Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
|
posted May 17, 2007 05:32 PM |
|
Edited by Consis at 17:36, 17 May 2007.
|
Well ....
I think we went to war in Afghanistan for it's rich supply of poppy seeds. And I think we went to war in Iraq for its rich supply of YouTube videos. The master plan was to gather enough poppy seeds and make a video we could put out on the web for everyone to see. That way the world could see that our country is the best for beating the drug tests that look for traces of marijuana in your blood. The more people we have smokin weed and getting away with it, the more likely we'll just chill out and stop taking everything so seriously. Frankly, I'm gettin tired of pissing and moaning about other countries who started pissing and moaning about me. I mean who cares if some butt-nugget dingleberry sporting nitwit from halfway round the world has his pantyhose in a bind? Do I care if someone took a leak in his cheereos or put sand in his condom? It's not my fault, it's probably just a case of global warming. I'd tell mr. Poopy Pants that he better keep an eye out for polar bears in his backyard .... well that or butterscotch gnomes trying to mix up something fierce in his underpants. And don't even get me started on the fish-sauce pixies and their honkin road-hoggin SUV's. Those little pimped out mischievous peckerwood faeries will be the first to have their backs against the wall when the time comes! Hey I just calls em like I sees em: Bird flu or mad cow disease??? I say lay down and boogie and play that funky music till you die.
____________
Roses Are Red And So Am I
|
|
Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
|
|
posted May 17, 2007 05:52 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Marching into Afghanistan (supported by UN) was a necessary response by US because they had to show their citizens that they will do something about people attacking their country and not just sit on their ass.
Yeah? What did they show? That high-tech weaponry, stealth bombers and such can defeat a bunch of loonatics with ak47s and stingers?
Quote:
Iraq was a logical attack because US lacked any type of control or influence in the region. There are very few US military bases in that region.
Maybe there are still countries that don't want US bases on their territory and want to be independant, bro?
I wonder what would Americans do if iran wanted to put a base on their territory. Laugh? possibly. Then why all those muslim countries have to accept your bases?
Quote:
Could scare Iran to listening to US.
We see the effect. There is none. Iran does whatever it wants, Korea does whatever it wants, and the casualties count raises. Great strategy, sheeesh.
Quote:
AS for the reasons why doesn't US help out in Africa. Well why should it, what is the benefit to American people?
And what is the effect of this pathetic war you're trying to defend? For your country even, lets skip the killed civilians.. you have 3,444 dead soldiers, enormous ammounts of money spent, absolutely no mass-weapons found, no terrorist groups dispatched.. what is the benefit to American People? Sorry, I can't see any.
Quote:
I don't know what was exactly US administration thinking when they were going into Afghanistan and Iraq but it was clear that this is not going to be something accomplished in vew months. And they can't leave those countries because the governments that were set up there would collapse immediately.
Yeah, and it was soooooo hard to predict.. damn, was there a more obvious thing that once US forces come in there, they won't be able to get out?
|
|
TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
|
|
posted May 17, 2007 06:29 PM |
|
|
Quote:
And what is the effect of this pathetic war you're trying to defend? For your country even, lets skip the killed civilians.. you have 3,444 dead soldiers, enormous ammounts of money spent, absolutely no mass-weapons found, no terrorist groups dispatched.. what is the benefit to American People? Sorry, I can't see any.
1) Oil
2) Getting respect from other countries for their 'courage' of attacking a contry with supposedly having mass destruction weapons (but didn't)
3) losing those soldiers probably was easier for US to get rid of overpopulation (joking perhaps). 
|
|
Colonel_here
Adventuring Hero
Descendant of Ghengis Khan
|
|
posted May 17, 2007 07:32 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
Marching into Afghanistan (supported by UN) was a necessary response by US because they had to show their citizens that they will do something about people attacking their country and not just sit on their ass.
Yeah? What did they show? That high-tech weaponry, stealth bombers and such can defeat a bunch of loonatics with ak47s and stingers?
No they showed that despite all that technology they still unable to defeat the bunch of lunatics with AK-47s and Stingers. The reason for inability is the same as it was for Soviet Union. The mountaneous terrain makes all the high tech gear useless, satellties and radars can't see inside caves.
Quote:
Quote:
Iraq was a logical attack because US lacked any type of control or influence in the region. There are very few US military bases in that region.
Maybe there are still countries that don't want US bases on their territory and want to be independant, bro?
I wonder what would Americans do if iran wanted to put a base on their territory. Laugh? possibly. Then why all those muslim countries have to accept your bases?
And who asked them. This is for the interestof US so why should they care about what other countires think about the bases. I often said that if action is of benefit to a country and to its people than the government should carry it out.
Quote:
Quote:
Could scare Iran to listening to US.
We see the effect. There is none. Iran does whatever it wants, Korea does whatever it wants, and the casualties count raises. Great strategy, sheeesh.
Well North Korea (KNR) knows it is untouchable because China would protect it. Remember last time when China and US grappled. And back than China had no ICBMs or nuclear warheads or large pile of US dollars that it could ofload into the world markets and cause US dollar crisis if it wanted. And I beleive ackording to last data their army can match 1 to 1 every single adult citizen of US and they can mobilise to become 1 million strong easily. So KNR knew that it could do what it wanted.
Now with Iran, it knows that is has room to manuever b/c US is busy with Iraq, however if it wasn't the story would be different. And as I said place several Nuclear warheads in Iraq and Iran will shut up. Why?
Scenario 1: Iran launches its nuclear arsenal against US. US has ability to bring those missles down while they are corssing Turkey, Israel, Europe and Atlantic and than there is NORAD. Don't forget GPS sattelites are also US spy sattleites programmed to detect ICBM launches. So how many of Iran's missles will make it through? very few. US responds with its lauches from Iraq's territory. Flight time would be between 10 to 15 minutes max. Iran would not have a chance to detect them even.
Scenario 2: US launches missles from Iraq's territory against Iran, they will hit before Iran will be able to respond.
Quote:
Quote:
AS for the reasons why doesn't US help out in Africa. Well why should it, what is the benefit to American people?
And what is the effect of this pathetic war you're trying to defend? For your country even, lets skip the killed civilians.. you have 3,444 dead soldiers, enormous ammounts of money spent, absolutely no mass-weapons found, no terrorist groups dispatched.. what is the benefit to American People? Sorry, I can't see any.
Well we got rid of another country that was saying no to US all the time. US can move its military out of Saudi Arabia into Iraq and maybe some of terrorist groups will calm down.
One of the big oil producers's governments will feel eternaly grateful to US, and express gratitude with oil. And if they want well than US will change the government again or let it fall. And yes US needs that oil, even during the embargo days the oil from Iraq was exchanged for food, and Saddam was selling oil illegally outside the embargo and number of oil companies in US openly said that they bought it.
Civilians dead. Well lets put myself into president's shoes. Civilians are dead. wait those are Iraqi civilians. Are they citizens of US? Are they paying taxes? Do tehy vote in US elections? No. Let me check the consitution and other legislations. Can't find anything about me being concerned about other countries' citizens. Or wait but that should make me feel bad on personal level as a human. Wait I am supposed to separate my personal feelings from political responsabilities. So final result I should not care.
Quote:
Quote:
I don't know what was exactly US administration thinking when they were going into Afghanistan and Iraq but it was clear that this is not going to be something accomplished in vew months. And they can't leave those countries because the governments that were set up there would collapse immediately.
Yeah, and it was soooooo hard to predict.. damn, was there a more obvious thing that once US forces come in there, they won't be able to get out?
Well when did US troops ever get out of the contries they enter. There are still bases in Cuba, Phillipines, South Korea, Japan, UK, Germany, Italy, Turkey and now in Poland, Czech republic. Vietnam and France are the only eamples when US troops packed up and left.
____________
"The job of saving the lives of those who are sinking is the task of those who are sinking" - Ostap Bender
"Only a fool fights a battle he knows he can not win" - Ghengiz Khan
|
|
Lith-Maethor
Honorable
Legendary Hero
paid in Coin and Cleavage
|
posted May 17, 2007 07:38 PM |
|
|
...
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Iraq was a logical attack because US lacked any type of control or influence in the region. There are very few US military bases in that region.
Maybe there are still countries that don't want US bases on their territory and want to be independant, bro?
I wonder what would Americans do if iran wanted to put a base on their territory. Laugh? possibly. Then why all those muslim countries have to accept your bases?
And who asked them. This is for the interest of US so why should they care about what other countires think about the bases. I often said that if action is of benefit to a country and to its people than the government should carry it out.
and this attitude is the main reason people dislike the US of A ...at least over here
____________
You are suffering from delusions of adequacy.
|
|
baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
|
|
posted May 17, 2007 08:48 PM |
|
|
Actually, Colonel_here is absolutely right. He put himself in a completely neutral, professional point of view. The US does all that for the reasons he stated. Those reasons are twisted, demented and megalomaniac, but as long as it's in the interest of USA it's ok... Cause they CAN do it, since they're powerful enough.
Like I said, Romans thought the same...
Napoleon thought the same...
Hitler thought the same...
And look where they are now 
As powerful as America thinks it is, it cannot challenge the world as long as Russia and China are still standing. That is why we need the balance of powers, so that opinions like "prevent millions of africans from dying? why? they don't have oil" or "hahaha dead civilians" can never be regarded as acceptable, approved and, above all, democratic.
____________
"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
|
|
SwampLord
Supreme Hero
Lord of the Swamp
|
|
posted May 17, 2007 08:56 PM |
|
|
For any of you who still believe that 9/11 was caused by the American government, you need to grow up. Governments don't attack their own people. Also, if we wanted the oil, why are our oil prices going up? Why are all the dems screaming to pull out, if we want the oil? Again, regarding the 9/11 "conspiracy", pure "junk".
I don't see any other countries rushing to help out in Africa either. So, normally, we're not allowed to be world police, except when people need us? It's like the point RSF was trying to make in the original thread.
Also, you guys would still be living under Hitler if it wasn't for us. A little gratitude would be nice.
On the subject of the Chinese Army. There's a difference between "quality" and "quantity", as the Chinese found out in World War Two, where much smaller amounts of Japanese troops ripped huge, ill-equipped Chinese armies to pieces.
|
|
baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
|
|
posted May 17, 2007 09:09 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Governments don't attack their own people.
You've obviously never heard of countries with true dictatorship
Quote:
So, normally, we're not allowed to be world police, except when people need us?
The point WE were trying to make is that it would be ok if you don't help Africa if you don't play police attacking countries. If you play police, do it the way it should be done - that includes helping the needy, or reading through facts a bit before butchering innocents; if your sense of police is limited to attacking countries for personal gain then you're just tyrants.
And taking the official excuse, revenge for 9/11 - killing civilians from REVENGE belongs to the middle ages, if even there, so your entire government (especially the president) are those who need to grow up.
Quote:
Also, you guys would still be living under Hitler if it wasn't for us. A little gratitude would be nice.
We congratulate you on that. But the Russians were as responsible for that as much as you were. Did you let them erect bases on your soil? No. Instead you and them started the cold war. Gratitude is one thing, unconditional surrender to every whim of your government is another.
Besides, you didn't help Europe because you wanted to, but because the Japanese dragged you into the war. Our true saviours are henceforth the Japanese
____________
"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
|
| |
|
|
