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| Thread: Why were Sir_Stiven threads deleted? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted June 18, 2007 10:09 AM |
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Mods can't bring back deleted threads, only the Admin can (database...).
And Acu, no matter if you are wrong or right with your statement in your post, I don't think those "personal" attacks towards LK are necessary or welcomed. I know you are often pretty emotional in your replys, but use IM next time if u have something "bad" to say towards someone, k?
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Lich_King
Honorable
Supreme Hero
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posted June 18, 2007 01:03 PM |
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Aculias, personaly, have you ever tried to think with your head ? Not with anything else ? You just keep surprising me...
RSF... *sigh* I had my points of deletion and I did explained them, if you don't read the whole thread it's not my problem really.
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Valeriy
Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
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posted June 18, 2007 02:18 PM |
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To set things straight, Lich_King did a cleanup of Tribunal where he deleted a number of threads, the threads in question only being part of the clean up. He did not consult me about this at the time, I only found out later.
From talking to LK it is clear to me that he was in no way out to deliberately erase Stiven threads, as some paranoids seem to suggest. A routine clean-up involves removal of old negativity which those threads, as well as others that have been deleted, contain a good deal of. As others pointed out the Stiven threads contained insults adressed at moderators and myself.
I believe LK that this deletion was not a deliberate negative act. As a bit of background, I've known him for years, so this belief is not based on just a few messages. He did agree that he should have discussed it with me and said that he now regrets that he didn't. His reasoning for these threads being part of the clean up makes logical sense, but he did overlook some aspects of this decision at the time. Where I'm at is that there are both positive and negative aspects to the deletion that took place.
On the negative side (loss), those threads are part of HC history and contain some very thoughtful posts, and reveal surprising aspects of some members' personalities.
On the positive side (gain), to someone who hasn't been there at the time and hasn't seen Stiven in the act, the whole thing reads like a schitzophrenic witch hunt and contains repeated unpenalized COC breaches.
I do have a backup, but it would be a big pain to restore - there isn't an automatic process for that. And overall I'd rather spend that time improving HC. Those certainly weren't the "good old times" and it's not someone who deserves a monument. Many of us have learned a lot from the incident, and that will remain with us regardless of the threads' existence.
As for LK, yes he did make a mistake, which may not be entirely a mistake. Nobody seems to notice that he cleaned a large part of Tribunal. I won't be sending him on probation for keeping the comunity up to date, peaceful and organized. However those particular threads could have been handled better, which we've discussed. And if there are similar threads in the future (I hope not!) the cleaning will be handled with more consideration for how certain members feel about such threads. The point has certainly been taken.
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You can wait for others to do it, but if they don't know how, you'll wait forever.
Be an example of what you want to see on HC and in the world.
http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted June 18, 2007 03:02 PM |
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I actually noticed the complete cleanup.
I agree that threads need to be looked at & cleaned.
I dont agree that because a thread was bad it has to be erased also.
Orless you want to turn HC into a Kindergarten club where New people cant learn from others mistakes & we all prance around like Barbie Dolls calling each other Sugar Bunnies.
I also know Lich would never admit when he is wrong.
I feel he should of said he was wrong but hey I have known him a long time too on here.
I just think it's wrong to earase history that people actually enjoy to read.
You think people just want to read how you beat Heroes 3 on a quiz.
Or how would life be after death.
Were human, we like some crazy stuff in here.
HC has a timeline unfortunately & you are letting people erase them so they can have a Rainbow Bright HC.
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Dreaming of a Better World
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted June 18, 2007 03:57 PM |
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Completely Honest?
I asked: "I wonder if the moderator who deleted it, asked him if it was ok to delete it?"
Lich_King responded: "I already had my word with Valeriy."
Valeriy responded by saying: "He did not consult me about this at the time, I only found out later."
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Roses Are Red And So Am I
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Lich_King
Honorable
Supreme Hero
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posted June 18, 2007 04:14 PM |
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I must have said it more clearly. I had a word AFTER this thread was started.
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violent_flower
Promising
Supreme Hero
Almost there.
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posted June 18, 2007 05:13 PM |
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I have not been on here as long as most, but I have something to add to this, as if it matters. I love going back and reading the threads that stirred up the most crap, this is what makes it fun. I have to clinch my jaw, hold onto the side of desk, and whine loudly before I state this.
*****Pause******clinching********whining*******the following should be read as if I was saying it fast and so that no one can understand me because I will regret these words......FOREVER********
I agree with Acu.... OMG, ok I said it, it is over, I have completely ruined my rep....
I don't care if it is a nasty thread directed at a mod or at Val, it is still the threads in here that make it what it is. If you are going to go this way then take down every thread where someone has received a -QP or where someone has disagreed with someone on race, religion, or any other disagreement.
I have never read those but have heard that those threads were classics. I have reread posts from forever ago as reference to certain things, to learn from or laugh at.
Val, there were personal attacks to you in those threads from what I gather. You are mature enough to handle that type of commentary that is put out there, or at least you should be. What if we all start requesting that you pull every negative thread that has anyone in it as a target. Not to be rude but who gives a **** if it takes some of your time to restore. They need to be restored, and you should pay attention to what the majority is pleading to you, set aside your personal feelings on it. These people are what makes HC, not just one person, not just one Mod.
There has been a vote on here that wants the threads restored and regardless if you are pulled from your others duties you have a responsibility to restore these. Do the right thing and bite your tongue on this one.
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Dragon_Slayer
Honorable
Supreme Hero
toss toss toss
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posted June 19, 2007 03:35 PM |
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Well its obvious there is nothing left to argue here. Val, Lich and all he rest of us have had a say. The only thing left to do now is decide whether or not to restore the threads. Val, you said its a hard process to restore the threads, but you never said you wouldnt do it. So if enough people raise there hands, will you restore them?
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted June 19, 2007 05:37 PM |
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Well....
There were in fact a few insults and indeed attacks made in this thread. We might as well delete this thread too. It does have a slightly negative feel to it. Yes, it's probably best to wait a year after people have surely forgotten about it and then remove this thread during "cleaning". There's no point in having this thread if there's negativity in it.
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Roses Are RedAnd So Am I
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pandora
Honorable
Legendary Hero
The Chosen One
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posted June 19, 2007 06:53 PM |
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Edited by pandora at 18:54, 19 Jun 2007.
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I had been avoiding this thread because the whole issue still causes me a great deal of grief - but here goes anyways.
Yes - it is a sad thing that the threads are gone. I agree with that. Not just because of Stiven, but because those threads also contained a lot of insight as to what kind of people our members are. In those threads a lot of great members and great friends said their goodbyes - and to me that's important.
However - Lich King in no way acted maliciously here. This wasn't a cover up or an attempt to hide anything. Its very common practise among us moderators to delete threads that have been locked for a very long time. In fact it's one of the easier ways to do a quick cleanup of your forum. Had Lich known the troubles this would have caused - he would never have deleted the thread - and he in no way expected that anyone would react as they have.
Given the content of the threads - ideally he would have asked other mods their opinion first - but he really just thought of it as unnecessary dead threads. I'm saying this so that those of you who believe that he did this as a way to cause trouble, or upset certain members understand that this truly wasn't the case. He just made a mistake.
I do hope that you will all have some understanding as well about Valeriy's current situation. If you look further into the Tribunal you'll see that the last server move caused some headaches - lots and lots of bugs - and now we'll be looking to another move in the next few days.
Valeriy saying that its a great deal of trouble to restore the threads isn't his way of saying "I'm too lazy" what he's telling you is that he is presently up to his eyeballs in other work just to keep the forums up and running. There have been bugs in everything, from what you guys see out here - to our mod-tools as well - and I don't doubt that Valeriy really needs to catch up on his sleep 
I would just hope that you guys try not to judge Lich too harshly here, because he meant no harm - and please be patient with Valeriy. If it's possible I too have my hand up for the return of the threads - but the stability and security of the general Forums has to come first. As well - Valeriy needs to give himself a break once in a while too.
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"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
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violent_flower
Promising
Supreme Hero
Almost there.
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posted June 19, 2007 07:41 PM |
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(quote)I do have a backup, but it would be a big pain to restore - there isn't an automatic process for that. And overall I'd rather spend that time improving HC. Those certainly weren't the "good old times" and it's not someone who deserves a monument. Many of us have learned a lot from the incident, and that will remain with us regardless of the threads' existence.(/quote)
My comment, in case my Panda Bear took it wrong, was not implying that Val is lazy in regards to returning the threads. I believe that there are a lot of things that the Mods control and that is their job. It is necessary to have that type of democracy in a otherwise crazy and chaotic world we call, HC.
I don't care why he took them down, even if it was done in a poor manor, that is for Val to decide and punish accordingly or not. The fact that is really on the hot seat here is that we, the HC memebers, want to know if, when Val gets his catnap, he is going to restore those threads?
If you notice in the quote above he sounds bitter, and unwilling to restore those threads; it sounds as if this is more of a personal vendetta then one that he feels is in the best interest of the members, THE ONES THAT MAKE THIS PLACE POSSIBLE. You save threads of that caliber, you don't just delete other peoples work. It is not right, it takes away from adults wanting to have dialog amongst themselves, adult dialog. If it was, Why do birds **** on you even though you feed them, kinda thread, well, hello, this is different.
You restore the threads, then you restore the trust between the group, and Lich. You also dilute the builiding animosity that is continuing with the group and Val.
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pandora
Honorable
Legendary Hero
The Chosen One
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posted June 19, 2007 07:50 PM |
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I understand what you're saying, and I wasn't directing my comment at you - it was simply towards anyone who felt that Valeriy just "didn't feel like it" after reading his reply.
I do agree that the history of HC should be saved - I think its fun to look back at the good the bad and the ugly
This isn't the first time this has happened, before I was a moderator I had several of my threads deleted, as well as other threads that I had posted in. Dunno why that happened, but it sure did bug me too. Heck, I even lost a QP
Not that that's at all relevant - I'm just saying that I know what it is to pour your heart into a post only to find it gone. I also know all to well what is to look back for a thread that you know was there, only to find it gone now *sigh*
As I said, I am for having the threads returned. And I do understand that people are upset, and why they are upset.
My only hope in posting was that the anger people feel isn't misdirected - I hope that people can understand that this was no giant conspiracy to shush the dissenting masses, and it was not done because Lich was exacting some personal vendetta against anyone.
It was a routine clean gone bad in a way Lich didn't see coming.
I also hope that people do see that Valeriy is aware of what's going on, and isn't simply ignoring it - he's just telling you that there's a lot of other stuff he has to do. We have to look to the next move - and cross our fingers that this one doesn't cause anywhere near the headache that our current has.
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"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
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kookastar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted June 19, 2007 09:45 PM |
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I haven't really felt the need to post here because the deletion doesn't affect me. It is interesting to see people who really had no attachment to the threads making such a dance about them.
Whether or not they should have been deleted, the fact is they have been. Some things just die. Let them go and move on. Create new memories - be the posters that you miss, instead of dwelling on this.
I personally would rather see 3 hours of Val spamming with us {he is a ghost now} then him get annoyed and frustrated digging up threads for a handful of people.
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uhuh
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted June 20, 2007 06:40 AM |
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Yea I am sure Lich had no conspiracy.
Afterall the only thing he did wrong was mouth off Kitten in a way I didnt like back in the old days.
What I do think is that he to delete all evidence where he is modding on threads he dont like.
Sneak around deleting this & that from the past where people dont really look at.
I think if he finds a dislike to someone.
BOOM BY THE POWER OF HC MODERATION.
I HAVE THE POWER!!!!!!!
*SWOOP* There goes the threads.
SWOOP there goes the good reading.
SWOOP 2000004995685 tavern threads are still there  .
Just my opinion.
I find that he keeps alot to himself.
Cant handle conflict.
Thinks he is the better man because of it.
Then he goes around deleting threads.
Why do you think the Volcanic Wastelands became a forum in the first place.
PENDING deletion.
Before you throw words out like me getting my panties in a bunch or quit being a cheese burger wad or however lol. Remember I have known Lich longer then alot.
I know alot more then he thinks i know.
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Dreaming of a Better World
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Valeriy
Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
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posted June 20, 2007 11:05 AM |
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Would everyone who is reminding me of my democratic obligations please fulfill their own democratic obligations first by paying the $25 monthly forum tax - it has been overdue since my landslide election in 2001.
And in event that these taxes will not be paid I'm afraid that you actually have no right to be on my property, other than I, the evil dictator, and my associates give you.
 
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You can wait for others to do it, but if they don't know how, you'll wait forever.
Be an example of what you want to see on HC and in the world.
http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com
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violent_flower
Promising
Supreme Hero
Almost there.
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posted June 20, 2007 05:54 PM |
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Hey Val, nice to see you participating. I have heard that you used to but things have just taken you away. So we have to piss you off to get you to respond, that sounds like fun..
So we will gather the twenty-five dollars and then you can restore the threads. If we all send you a dollar you will even make a profit. Do you take rolls of pennies?
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Valeriy
Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
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posted June 20, 2007 10:55 PM |
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I was just having a laugh that here I am being woken up in the middle of the night by downtime alert SMS to restart the server, and sacrifising my working time when I don't have enough to make sure HC is running well, all for free, and here are people who tell me what my obligations are and how my time is to be used. The fees part was of course humor to underline the arrogance of taking something for free and having demands about it. As people are quoting the FAQ, I'd like to highlight the "respect" bit.
As for the threads restoration, I'll put it on the low priority to do list. My current life situation is such that I don't get enough sleep because of work. There are certainly some more important things to do for HC, so no promises about when it will be done.
As we have repeatedly pointed out, deletion was a mistake, not some deliberate malicious undercover act to erase identities or settle scores. Instead of making whines and accusations let's do positive things towards the future.
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You can wait for others to do it, but if they don't know how, you'll wait forever.
Be an example of what you want to see on HC and in the world.
http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com
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violent_flower
Promising
Supreme Hero
Almost there.
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posted June 20, 2007 11:39 PM |
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Well confusing my arrogance for humor is just not your style Val. I knew what you were getting at, I was just adding some light to this otherwise dark thread.
Enough said about that; by the way we will be throwing you a party in the wastelands to thank you for all your time you have so kindly volunteered for HC.
Thanks again and gets some sleep, this lack of is making you crabby..
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RedSoxFan3
Admirable
Legendary Hero
Fan of Red Sox
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posted June 24, 2007 12:24 AM |
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@Lich - Don't take it too hard. Everyone makes mistakes. Just be more careful if you are going to delete something in the future.
@Val - Like I said earlier, I wouldn't even worry about it. It's HC history, but who really cares about a banned member anyway?
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Go Red Sox!
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Xarfax111
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
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posted June 26, 2007 12:46 AM |
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Its more like a "thread-deletion-reflex"....
...A Mod deletes a thread and somehow this already forgotten and not longer readed thread gets "important" by forum trolls that smell "dictator- and cencorship".
Not that they "really" care....
offtopic:
At that time some whiners like guitarwhiner, FAG, little kid William and some others, made the funny and adult place that the HC was, into the political correct, dull, boring, hugging place the HC is now.
Unfortunately Valery liked to hug some newbies. 
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