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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted October 23, 2001 09:31 PM |
bonus applied. |
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New idea: Strangers
I see that others feel that all ideas for Heroe 4 already have been discussed. So I hope this will be something new. There has been some ideas on RPG-ing but the ones I've come across centre on changing the player's Heroes. This idea instead introduces something that will encounter your Heroes and can be used to develope a scenario.
Short about the idea.. In heroes 4 there will be wandering neutral heroes and wandering monsters. Both of these are new innovations. This idea introduces the idea of a third type of wandering creatures which I call Strangers for this discussion.
So what are Strangers for?
In short: A stranger can be seen as a wandering creature (hero or monster) and is a way to make the location of an event or encounter movable in place on the adventure map.
Elaborated:
Each stranger can be seen as a neutral Hero but with some extra attributes attached to give it a certain role-playing effect. A stranger would be built to have a specific purpose on the game, and usually it would be similar to a Seer's Hut or another Place which can be found on the adventure map. Strangers can be either bad or good to meet. The game should use the presence/absence of attributes like Nobility, Alignment, Diplomacy and Charm to decide what happens when a Hero encounters a Stranger. Scouting and Stealth should be used for FoW effects. Normally, only heroes should be able to encounter strangers and only strangers heroes. A group of monsters would normally be prevented to encounter a stranger.
Things that should be customizable for a stranger:
* Stealth: Strangers should normally be invisible to everyone except heroes with high good Scouting skills, but map-makers may want to make some strangers visible all the time. Usually, Strangers should be of the type "I can meet you, but you can't encounter me."
* Wandering radius. Too limit the area a Stranger can appear in.
* How the Stranger appears on the adventure map. There should be three possibilities: like a neutral Hero, like a wandering monster, or something unique. (In combat the Stranger would use either the animation of a creature or one of the hero classes.)
* On a per player basis what happens when a hero from a player encounters the Stranger. The result can be hostile towards one player and friendly towards another.
Ok.... You're still there??? You probably wonder what you'd want Strangers for?
Below are some examples of Strangers and how they can effect the game:
Witch Doctor: The Witch doctor places a curse or a blessing on a Hero encountered. This could be a way to introduce cursed artifacts that actually has some bite. It has bite since the player will normally not be able to avoid the Stranger. A cursed artifact in a chest you obtain during your own turn, so it's easy to reload the autosave and avoid the chest. This is not so easy for strangers, since you will obtain the cursed artifacts between turns, and reloading the autosave will very likely not make a difference.
Wandering witch: This works as a wandering ‘witch hut'. However, since the witch moves you can never be certain which skill she teaches if there are several on the map. This Stranger could be visible.
Seer: This is like a wandering Seer's Hut. This Stranger would be visible to you once you've committed to a quest.
Hag: This Stranger curses a Hero making all creature leave his or her company, this means splitting them away into a separate army. A visit to a special adventure location is needed to remove the curse. The Hag's curse prevents any creatures to be in the same army as the Hero.
Raiders: When encountering an army, the raiders steal all artifacts in the army's possession. There might be a special adventure location where the raider's stove away their booty. The first player to visit it can claim the ‘stolen' loot.
Spell-casting monster: Teleports the army to a place on the map. (Best displayed as a normal stacks of this monster on the adventure map.)
Seeker: Tries to find the Hero of a certain player. If found, the Seeker can either challenge the hero to single combat or offer to join your cause.
Trainer: Similar to the wandering witch, but the Trainer is capable of teaching the Hero a Special Ability. (This Special Ability would work similar to the one in heroes 3.) Two types of Trainers are suggested:
A. Trainer for a creature specialists
B. Trainer for a spell specialists.
Any one character can only specialize in one creature and one spell.
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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Lith-Maethor
Honorable
Legendary Hero
paid in Coin and Cleavage
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posted October 23, 2001 09:41 PM |
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ALL THUMBS UP!!!!
....great idea... if only it wasn't too late for HoMM4...
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You are suffering from delusions of adequacy.
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titan
Known Hero
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posted October 23, 2001 10:07 PM |
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nice idea 
but.....
Quote:
Hag: This Stranger curses a Hero making all creature leave his or her company, this means splitting them away into a separate army. A visit to a special adventure location is needed to remove the curse. The Hag's curse prevents any creatures to be in the same army as the Hero.
More explanation...
Quote:
Raiders: When encountering an army, the raiders steal all artifacts in the army's possession. There might be a special adventure location where the raider's stove away their booty. The first player to visit it can claim the ‘stolen' loot.
"All" i think is a little to much....
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 If we ever will time travel in the future . Why haven't people from the future visited us yet
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UnkaHaakon
Responsible
Famous Hero
happily tilting at windmills
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posted October 23, 2001 10:10 PM |
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Offtopic: Bonus Applied
I can honestly say that I have not seen this idea before on this forum that I remember (and I'm up to mid August in the Archives, so I've seen a lot of ideas)
Not all of these ideas may be possible to implement in a Heroes game, but it's a rare gem of a truly new idea for HOMM. Congratulations, Djive...you just made my day!
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted October 23, 2001 10:36 PM |
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Quote:
Hag: This Stranger curses a Hero making all creature leave his or her company, this means splitting them away into a separate army. A visit to a special adventure location is needed to remove the curse. The Hag's curse prevents any creatures to be in the same army as the Hero.
"More explanation..."
Basically, the Hero who gets the Hag's curse must form a separate army (with only the hero in one stack). This applies until the location which removes the curse has been visited.
In the case where there's more than one Hero in the army, only one of the heroes will get the Hag's curse.
If you already have 8 armies when you get the hag's curse you will have to reduce the army count by 1 in whichever way you can. This will mean dismissing creatures and/or heroes.
Quote:
Raiders: When encountering an army, the raiders steal all artifacts in the army's possession. There might be a special adventure location where the raider's stove away their booty. The first player to visit it can claim the ‘stolen' loot.
""All" i think is a little to much...."
It's meant as a reset button and to make players think twice before piling everything onto the heroes in one single army. This type of reset buttons tend to work very well in other games.
Unka, thanks for the QP. The ideas are not entirely my own as anyone who have played a game called Talisman will realize. The Hag and the Raiders are two of the best known cards in that game. (They are Events and not Strangers, though for the purpose of Heroes they're better decribed as Strangers.) I've adapted the effects so they make sense in the perspective of a Heroes game.
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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niteshade
Known Hero
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posted October 23, 2001 11:07 PM |
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hehe, I was just about to say that your suggestions really reminded me of talisman. Anyway that's certainly not an unreasonable idea, although I could see it causing a whole lot of saving and reloading in singleplayer games. I kind of like the idea of the stranger just being an event that moves around the board on it's own. Nice and simple, and you don't have to create a whole new system for it.
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Hexa
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted October 23, 2001 11:22 PM |
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whoow
Where do you guys get the time to write such lenghty post...
great idea though!@
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If you want to realize your dreams >>> you have to wake up!@
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted October 24, 2001 10:43 PM |
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Since many of you seem to like the idea .....
How about making up a few custom strangers of your own and propose them to this thread?
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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titan
Known Hero
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posted October 25, 2001 02:12 AM |
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Edited By: titan on 24 Oct 2001
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ok I'll try
Gladiator : Seeks a special hero then chalange him to a fight if u accept he give u double (Tripple) the normal exp. (and learn a new skill/spell ?? )
Tax collector : when your hero encounter it it must pay an amount of gold or hey will go to jail
Titan....
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If we ever will time travel in the future . Why haven't people from the future visited us yet
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UnkaHaakon
Responsible
Famous Hero
happily tilting at windmills
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posted October 25, 2001 04:16 AM |
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Careful what you ask for, Djive ....
First, I'd like to say that upon careful consideration, some of these "Stranger' ideas may be possible to implement with the new scripting system in H4. So here's a chance to get creative. A couple of ideas from me to keep the ball rolling.
Sarcastic Leprechaun: Tired of being mugged in his Magic Garden, this Stranger wanders the map seeking heroes and taunting them mercilessly. This encounter results in a lowered morale (-1) until the next combat. Should the Sarcastic Leprechaun be killed, this triggers a recurring loss of Morale and Luck every week or so (you're being haunted by the leprechaun's ghost).
Traveling Salesman: This guy is really good at his job. An encounter with the Traveling Salesman leaves you poorer by a set amount (possibly a random amount) of gold, but that snappy line of patter raises your morale for the next fight. A variation on this could be an automatic loss of a major amount of gold in return for a random minor artifact. (Darn, but that guy is good!! I know it was overpriced, but I just couldn't help myself.)
As you can see, I think this may be something we could have a little fun with as well.
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Some people say the glass is half full..Some people say it's half empty... I say "What're you asking me to drink?"
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted October 26, 2001 05:11 PM |
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Gladiator: This is much like the seeker. I believe you should get XP according to the normal reward (that is the gladiator is simply treated as a neutral Hero.)
Tax collector: This is a good idea. Something I'd be happy to suggest myself.
Sarcastic Leprechaun: Annoying but fun.
Traveling Salesman: Also a good idea.
So how about the following:
Leper: A diseased stranger wandering the land. When you encounter him he asks for help and that you bring him to the Sanctuary. If you refuse, your troops in this army will lose 10% of their hitpoints for a period of 7 days due to the leper's disease. (This also applies to any creature who joins or if you try to split stacks.) If you accept, the presence of the Leper will instead reduce hitpoints by 25%. This loss is removed when you reach the Sanctuary, and in addition you're given a reward (troops, money or artifact). Note: The 10% penalty to hitpoints is not removable by visiting the Sanctuary. You have to wait it out.
Wayward Witch: The witch displeased with having heroes coming by and disturbing her experiments all the time has decided to leave her hut and punish unworthy heroes. On the other hand she sometimes relents and gives you a reward instead.
20% chance of turning all Heroes in the army into Toads for three days. (Needles to say... you can't do much as a Toad. Just hopping around and squeak.)
20% chance of turning one (random) Hero into one Black Dragon for 1 day. (The downer of this one is: if you lose the BD you permanently lose the hero.)
20% chance for one (random) Hero to learn/improve 1 skill. (The choice you would have gotten at next level-up.)
20% chance of teaching one spell to a selected Hero.
20% summon an army of 100 of a random Preserve creature (of level 1 to 3) which your army has to fight.
Once the Witch has encountered a Hero she can't be encountered again until next week.
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titan
Known Hero
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posted October 27, 2001 01:30 AM |
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Edited By: titan on 29 Oct 2001
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Oops didnt saw the Seeker idea sorry ..
ok i've 2 more
Traitor/Spy: when your hero encounter it all your enemy's will see that hero where he is on the adventure map and his status what kind of creatures he has etc.
Annoying Guy : it finds a castle then buys every creature and then he runs away so u cant buy those creatures anymore for a week ( u lose those creatures that he bought )
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If we ever will time travel in the future . Why haven't people from the future visited us yet
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted October 29, 2001 12:06 AM |
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Traitor Interesting idea. I'd prefer calling this one a Spy.
Annoying Guy : This one will be fun.... I wonder how he will use those creatures... Attacking the neighboring town???
Anyway, here are three new Strangers.
In all cases a suitable spell would be able to get you to make a favourable decision, should you have the mana to use it.
Beggar Monk :
You are approached by a request for donation of money from a beggar Monk, say 100 Gold or so. The player can either pay the sum or refuse to pay.
In actuality the Beggar has a 10% chance of being the King of the Realm testing your generosity. If it is a beggar nothing happens. If it is the King, expect a generous reward if you gave him money (Say you get offered a Nobility Rank and Estates), and something really bad to happen if you did not. (You're arrested and thrown into a jail. Player must pay a ransom of say 1.000 Gold for your release.)
Lone traveller:
A traveller asks to join you for protection. You can either accept or reject. The chance is 80% that the traveller s insignificant, but 10% that it's a Witch testing your generosisty, and then 10% that the traveller is an assassin.
Rejecting the Witch: She zaps all Heroes in the army into Toads for three turns. (hehe)
Accepting the Witch: She gives you a choice of improving a skill, an artifact, or a spell.
Accepting the Assassin: The assassin slit the throats of all heroes in the party. You'll need to take them to town for ressurrection.
Herald
The Herald is like a Wandering Seer and offers you a Quest. However, unlike the Seer the Herald tells you the reward first, and only if you accept the quest will he tell you what you must do.
Not completing the quest will give you a huge penalty on your score for the map. (To motivate players to complete them.)
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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DonGio
Promising
Famous Hero
of Clear Water Mountain Clan
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posted October 29, 2001 11:37 AM |
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Wow, cool idea, Djive.
A few thoughts on that last one:
I think the price asked by this beggar monk should be higher, otherwise you will always pay him, since there's a slight chance that you'll be handsomely rewarded. Maybe he'll be asking for 4.000 gold for his new monastery or something, or maybe you can choose how much to give, and if it is the king, he will "punish" you if you're misarly, and reward you if you're generous.
The lone traveler sounds great, but I think he should do something even if he turns out to be insignificant, like tell you where you can find a certain artifact, an enemy town, a hint as to where the grail lies, or some other piece of information.
And wouldn't the leper be more interesting if declining to help him, you get nothing (or perhaps a curse of some sort, nothing major), and if you choose to help him, you'll lose parts of your army (no heroes, perhaps) to the disease, but the leper will give you a great reward which can make a huge impact on the map. So there will be positive as well as negative effects of both helping and not helping. And you would have to consider what will be most rewarding in the end.
Just some thoughts, this.
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There are 10 types of people: Those who read binary, and those who don't.
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Carz
Hired Hero
for taming Dragons
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posted October 29, 2001 01:22 PM |
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Here's mine. First one only if they have elementals.
Elemental Shaman
You pick up a sword lying from the ground. You see a Shaman coming towards you. You can give her your sword or draw it and fight her.
Accept: She takes your army, then fills your spaces with heaps of elementals. Then, whenever you may wish, you may go to her again and switch back the armies.
Fight/Lose Fight: You are trapped in the elemental planes by the shaman, and can never appear on any battlefield, town or adventure map during that campaign/scenario again.
Fight/Win Fight: After defeating her, she dies and befalls your luck by -2. But you gain a lot of experience, and some elementals.
Un-tamer
Whenever you fight this guy, he takes half of one of your creature stacks and puts it as a hostile wandering creature. 8% of chance stopping this from happening and fihgting is own army(which is weak)
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Dragons fight, dragons kool, dragons win, dragons rule! (Darn, I'm a vampire...)
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted October 30, 2001 08:52 PM |
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Edited By: Djive on 9 May 2002
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DonGio and Carz: Remember that the Stranger is supposed to encounter you after the end of your turn and before the next turn has started, I's usually not the Hero that meets the Stranger.
Don Gio: The beggar monk basically already works like this.
It may be a good idea to keep the amounts fairly small. I don't know much money noblity and estates would be worth, perhaps 5000 Gold??? In that case you can't be expected to expend 4000 Gold for each beggar monk that comes asking. Also refusing somebody to donate a small fortune can hardly be considered miserly? I would want to keep the sum low, so that you appear miserly if you don't give anything. Also how often do you have 4000 Gold at the end of one of your turn. Chances are that you must refuse because you don't have the money. Remember that giving money only brings you something in return in 10% of the cases so the amount donated should be a bit less than 10% than what you gain. That would make the amount in the range 100-500 Gold.
Lone Traveller: OK. He should give a small bonus. Hand over a rumour. Increase Morale or Luck by 1 until next combat...
Leper: The Leper alredy has the qualities you asked for. You shouldn't take the proposals for absolute. (Isn't losing 10% hitpoints for a week a curse? Isn't the reward when you reach the sanctuary enough?)
Carz:
Elemental Shaman. You would need to rewrite this so that the stranger seeks out you, instead of you encountering the sword. Otherwise this is a variant of the "Gladiator"/"Seeker" theme.
Un-tamer: I'm sorry. I don't understand how it is supposed to work.
New idea:
Outlaws: A gang of outlaws live in a forest and takes a tax from everyone who passes (20% of total value of the creatures, heroes and artifacts in the army's possesion) to fill their own pockets. If you don't pay the tax you have to fight them. This 'Stranger' has Grand Master Stealth and constitutes of 100 highway-men (Sharpshooters) led by a mid-level Hero. To make it more dangerous there could be a small chance that the Outlaws will not offer you to pay the tax, but attack you directly.
This stranger would remain in the same general area typically blocking a pass.
The problem with this Stranger is that the Outlaws will only attack armies that would normally flee from them making them a true menace. 
The only way to deal with this is to have a Hero with grand master Scouting leading a big army through the forest and deal with this menace the hard way.
Of course, there's one benefit with this. The Outlaws gives you some protection from enemy Scouts.
Jester:
This is a clut attempting to be a hero. His/her only redeeming feature is a persausive tongue and looking too young to die. The Jester pledges loyalty to your cause, but is utterly incompetent. His mere presence will reduce all damage dealt by the Hero he has attached himself to with 20%. The Jester takes up one stack slot in an army, and the player is prevented from splitting the Jester from the Hero. Opponent armies will be reluctant to target the Jester, and the player will not be able to control the Jester. The Jester has a missile attack which will do some measly damage.
There's a 10% chance for each day you stay in a Town with a tavern that the Jester becomes drunk and leaves the hero, handing over a minor artifact.
If the Jester dies in combat, the Hero and the troops suffer a -5 morale and luck penalty for 1 week.
Edited to bring it back to the top.
Btw. anyone who knows enough about the H4 scripts to say which ideas of these are possible to do?
Also keep the ideas coming.
Here is a new idea:
Black Knight:
This is seemingly a normal Hero, however, if an army with heroes ever defeats this Hero in combat, all Heroes in that army receives a permanent change of their Attack and Defence skills as follows:
Death aligned: -5 to their Attack skill and Defence skills
Life aligned: +5 to their Attack skill and Defence skill.
Others: No change.
Other stranger types working in similar ways (giving one alignment bonuses and another penalties) are possible.
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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SHlT
Tavern Dweller
cheater killer
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posted May 13, 2002 07:12 PM |
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cool
if that idea will be in homm5 i hope 3do will be fast doing homm5... heh
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You can try the best you can and the best you can is enough..
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Stalefish
Bad-mannered
Adventuring Hero
Hero for Hire
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posted May 13, 2002 10:58 PM |
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That are some really cool idea's
What's also a possibility;
A dragon wandering in human form,
It appears like a peasant and asks to join you and if you accept it will change into a Black Dragon at the first combat and might go away after the fight, and if you refuse it attacks you.
Or something like that
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Sir_Stiven
Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
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posted May 13, 2002 11:08 PM |
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Yupp, or you can just see a pile of gold and if you wanna pick it up..you win the game! woohooo! 
Moderator's note:This topic has been closed, as it refers to an older version of the game. To discuss Heroes 3, please go to Library Of Enlightenment, to discuss Heroes 4, please go to War Room Of Axeoth.
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"Youre zeroes and ones, youre wrong where im right"
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