|
| Thread: Word of Light / Curse of the Netherworld |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · NEXT» |
|
okrane
Famous Hero
|
posted September 21, 2007 02:06 PM |
|
|
Word of Light / Curse of the Netherworld
It is not too late.
These spells have proven useless all along Heroes 5 and HoF. So I believe it is time to change them.
They are 5th level spells, infinitely weaker than their counterparts Resurrection and Puppet Master.
They should be thus either changed or removed . i kindly ask those who can speak to someone in charge to remind them about this problem.
I suggest a remake these:
Word of Light: Fully heals all allied targets and blesses them with a random 1-3 spell.
Curse of the Netherworld: Damages all enemy targets and curses them with a random 1-3 spell.
This is just one suggestion out of many possible. If a good remake that would make them worthy of a 5th level spell is not in place, then simply remove them and replace them with better counterparts. I mean, Vampirism is already good enough, add a new lvl 5 light spell: like guardian angel from h4 or whatever and remove those two.
I am sick an tired of building up the mage guild till level 5, thus spending a lot of resources and end up with these crappy, useless, no good spells that I will never use no matter what, not even for fun.
Discuss
____________
|
|
alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
|
|
posted September 21, 2007 02:56 PM |
|
|
I made a simple MOD for my WOL/CON spells, to make them do more damage. I think I increased damage from 8 x Power + 16 to 12 x Power + something, don't remember the exact number. That actually makes the spell pretty usefull. Other thing would perhaps be better, but harder to include.
____________
What will happen now?
|
|
Orfinn
Supreme Hero
Werewolf Duke
|
|
posted September 21, 2007 02:56 PM |
|
|
Great suggestions there  The present versions aint worth a ****!
____________
|
|
GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted September 21, 2007 03:23 PM |
|
|
I really like your suggestion.  I would only change a few things:
Word of Light
Fully heals all the creatures which are not undead or demonic, and blesses them with a random 1-3 light spell, that the hero has on his spellbook. Half of the mana cost will be taken from the hero.
Curse of the Netherworld:
Damages all the creatures except undead and demonic troops and curses them with a random 1-3 dark spell, that the hero has on his spellbook. Half of the mana cost will be taken from the hero.
|
|
Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
|
|
posted September 21, 2007 03:27 PM |
|
|
Ehh, in that incarnation, both spells are pro-living and anti-undead/demonic. In the current game version, Curse of the Netherworld damages all living creatures. Slight oversight? 
|
|
Orfinn
Supreme Hero
Werewolf Duke
|
|
posted September 21, 2007 03:40 PM |
|
|
Quote:
I really like your suggestion. I would only change a few things:
Word of Light
Fully heals all the creatures which are not undead or demonic, and blesses them with a random 1-3 light spell, that the hero has on his spellbook. Half of the mana cost will be taken from the hero.
Curse of the Netherworld:
Damages all the undead and demonic troops and curses them with a random 1-3 dark spell, that the hero has on his spellbook. Half of the mana cost will be taken from the hero.
Emm... CurseOTN damages undead and demonic??
You mean this right?
Word of Light
Fully heals all the creatures which are not undead or demonic, and blesses them with a random 1-3 light spell, that the hero has on his spellbook. Half of the mana cost will be taken from the hero.
Curse of the Netherworld:
Damages all except the undead and demonic troops and curses them with a random 1-3 dark spell, that the hero has on his spellbook. Half of the mana cost will be taken from the hero.
____________
|
|
GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted September 21, 2007 03:45 PM |
|
|
Yes, that's exactly what I meant. Just a mistake. 
|
|
86wyp
Adventuring Hero
|
|
posted September 21, 2007 04:17 PM |
|
|
|
Personally I don't think they are useless. I consider CoTN a powerful spell actually. With this you can do like 300*7 damage from Necro heroes or 200*7 from Inferno heroes without any mod. Though they can't hurt a certain target hard, they do have overall excellent damage output.
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted September 21, 2007 04:22 PM |
|
|
Err.. How about way below sub par? Sure it may not be zero usefulness but compare it to puppet. It's not worth your time usually, even mass slow is better sheesh.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
86wyp
Adventuring Hero
|
|
posted September 21, 2007 04:50 PM |
|
|
|
Situations vary. When you are fighting a knight or ranger, PM makes them toothless that's true. Or mass slow can be better in a late game with super army fighting. But when the opponent is doing hit and run(pretty common for some factions), or a hero is rushing to you in week2or3 with his/her warmachines, or you are trying to stop the opponent from getting too powerful by making a rush, or in some cases you simply want to annihilate their army asap because they are too annoying with some spells maybe(depending on playing style), CoTN gives you a choice. Believe it or not, it have saved my games many times.
|
|
phoenixreborn
Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
|
|
posted September 21, 2007 05:03 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Though they can't hurt a certain target hard, they do have overall excellent damage output.
Exactly. It's like instead of firing an implosion (which may be resisted) and doing 1400 damage to 1 target you are spreading the damage between 4 or 5 or 6 or 7 targets.
I have found it useful in some situations.
Sure, I wouldn't mind if they added another effect to the damage, blesses or curses. It IS a level 5 spell.
|
|
86wyp
Adventuring Hero
|
|
posted September 21, 2007 05:22 PM |
|
|
|
I don't mind either. Especially for word of light.
|
|
alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
|
|
posted September 21, 2007 05:32 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Personally I don't think they are useless. I consider CoTN a powerful spell actually. With this you can do like 300*7 damage from Necro heroes or 200*7 from Inferno heroes without any mod. Though they can't hurt a certain target hard, they do have overall excellent damage output.
To deal 300 Damage with COTN, you need to have a spell power of 30. How often does that happen?
To look a bit further into the potential of COTN against Hit'n'Run, it is true that if opponent has only stacks of, say, one Assassin, you can take them out with this spell. I don't know the exact nature of how people do Hit'n'Run - it seems to me that if they do it with only stacks of one Assassin, they're asking for it. Now, let's consider the case where opponent brings a Deep Hydra [I'm using Dungeon troops here, because Dungeon is the one most commonly doing Hit'n'Run]. To kill one Hydra, you need to do 125 damage, and with 8 x Damage + 64, that corresponds to a Spell Power of 8 - to kill ONE Hydra. That's not too bad I suppose. To kill TWO Hydras, however, you need a spellpower of 24, and two kill the third Hydra, you need a Spell Power of 38 - in other words, pretty much forget about it. Again, to kill 10 Assassins, you need a Spell Power of 10, and to kill 15, you need a Spell Power of 18.
So, on the bottom line, unless opponent is doing the very risky trick of going against you with ONLY miniscule stacks, and he doesn't get to cast his Armageddon before your turn, I don't think COTN is that potent.
____________
What will happen now?
|
|
phoenixreborn
Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
|
|
posted September 21, 2007 05:39 PM |
|
|
|
Alcibiades can you post the exact formula for COTN and WOL and also Implosion and Meteor shower please? You must have it right there.
|
|
alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
|
|
posted September 21, 2007 05:46 PM |
|
|
It's all on Age Of Heroes, but COTN is 8 x Power + 64 on Expert Level, Implosion is 40 x Power + 40, Armageddon is 30 x Power + 30, and Meteor Shower is 20 x Power + 20.
____________
What will happen now?
|
|
phoenixreborn
Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
|
|
posted September 21, 2007 05:59 PM |
|
|
Alright so at 10 spellpower:
COTN: hitting 7 stacks = 1008 damage
hitting 4 stacks = 576 damage
Implosion = 440 damage
At 15 spellpower:
COTN: hitting 7 stacks = 1288 damage
hitting 4 stacks = 736 damage
Implosion = 640 damage
At 20 spellpower
COTN: hitting 7 stacks = 1568 damage
hitting 4 stacks = 896 damage
Implosion = 840 damage
_________
So it takes a while for the damage to even out. Granted implosion is always useful (unless resisted) and COTN can only be used against certain troops. But is it really that weak in terms of damage?
|
|
Beowolf
Adventuring Hero
|
|
posted September 21, 2007 06:23 PM |
|
|
This is just base damage, w/o plenty of modifiers: warlocks luck, empowered spells, elemental vision, MOTW and marble gargs (sure, its only for Dungeon and Academy) plus available for all elemental damage boosting artifacts. At the same time there is NO way of boosting COTN/WOL damage without raising spellpower. Maybe new arties will change smoething in that matter...
|
|
phoenixreborn
Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
|
|
posted September 21, 2007 06:26 PM |
|
|
|
You are absolutely right Beowolf, but are dungeon and academy the ones using those spells? Which factions are most likely to use them? I'd say Necro and Inferno are most likely to use COTN. For WOL I'd say Haven and Sylvan...the offensive spellcasting factions are going to have better stuff to do.
|
|
Moonlith
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
|
|
posted September 21, 2007 07:48 PM |
|
|
I personally think COTN is a nice addition to the list of dark magic spells. Once you've casted mass slow, mass weakness, etc etc, there will be a point when there's simply nothing better to cast. And instead of shooting and doing some damage to a single stack, doing damage to ALL enemy stacks is quite lovely in my opinion, especially considering it technically isn't destructive magic. I've found my usefullness for it. I think people confuse dark/light magic with destructive magic... There is no destructive magic spell for that matter damaging all enemy units. For dealing damage in a non-destructive magic school, its good enough. The only thing that could be arguid for, is the level.
Actually, I think for Dark magic, it would have been more logical to have been:
level 4 - Blind and COTN
level 5 - Puppet master and Frenzy
But oh well Actually I think people could easily mod this.
|
|
WarLore
Famous Hero
servant of urgash
|
|
posted September 21, 2007 07:52 PM |
|
|
this sounds really great idea
____________
A Nightmare from below.A hero from Within
|
|
|
|
