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| Thread: Heroes 5 TotE Strategy: Playing Stronghold Faction |  This thread is pages long: 1 10 ... 16 17 18 19 20 ... 28 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Nikita
Famous Hero
Meepo is underrated
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posted May 10, 2008 09:37 PM |
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Quote:
Oh but Defense is good. Combined with Blood Rage it's even better. 30% less damage at Expert level with perks such as Evasion, Protection and Vitality. It's just awesome.
mostly i get it at hte end of the game...also DEFEND US ALL is great after u've got lots of 3rd lvl creatures.
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Thanatos
Known Hero
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posted May 10, 2008 11:47 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
If I want Expert Attack, Expert Luck, Expert Defense and Expert Leadership
I would skip Luck then. Orcs imo need only Attack and War Machines to be effective in creeping - followed by Logistics (Pathfinding, Warpath) to speed up map clearing, then Leadership for Battle Elation. Defence is handy, but not as essential as skills mentioned. I usually leave lucky strikes on artifacts, skill isnīt worth it.
I don't agree, I consider defense to be one of the key skills for stronghold... For the orcs it not only has the benefit of reducing damage, but also of reducing the amount of blood rage that you lose if you get hit since that number is based on the amount of damage you receive. This way you can easier keep your BR and the bonuses it gives you up. This is essential, because as we all know, an orc without blood rage is nothing.
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted May 10, 2008 11:54 PM |
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I prefer Attack, Leadership, Logistics and Shout... + a randon skill, you may never know what may happen
This "random" skill is mostly a Shatter skill, depending on the enemy's faction(s). War Machines, Luck and Defence also work...
Stronghold is IMO the faction that requires the tiniest amount of thinking and tactics to work well. Just charge and upgrade ! (as it should be )
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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Anakrom
Known Hero
(Scroll) Out of the blue
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posted May 10, 2008 11:58 PM |
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Point is, that Defense doesnīt help that much in creeping, while Battle Frenzy doubles Goblins damage and awfully boosts Centaurs, Archery makes Centaurs even stronger and Flaming Arrows allows you to take down strong creeps and get artifacts/dwellings/vaults faster. You can manage just with Marauders, Trappers, Tent and Ballista like 80% of time.
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Result matters
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted May 11, 2008 12:04 AM |
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Tiniest? Maybe only in the beginning where you can rush everything with warmachines. After that part it's a delicate balance both in which units to attack, how to manipulate rage and complement the other units' attack. You can't just charge and attack like there is no tomorrow. There is planning ahead on what to sacrifice and how the battle will turn according to your rage levels.
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Cleave
Promising
Famous Hero
Raging Blood
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posted May 11, 2008 11:45 AM |
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Quote:
Stronghold is IMO the faction that requires the tiniest amount of thinking and tactics to work well.
That is nonsense.
Stronghold requires a lot of thinking if you want to get away with big fights and only have minimal losses.
It's only brainless when you have more than 20 Untamed Cyclops and don't face big neutral stacks (for example 200 Archliches or 100 Champions) or other human players (but an IA hero who if it's a Necromancer will most likely start by casting Mark of the Necromancer on his own troops).
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13 Heroes
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The_Gootch
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Kneel Before Me Sons of HC!!
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posted May 13, 2008 07:44 PM |
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I don't know Cleave. There are things I can do with 4-5 stacks of Earth Daughters and one stack of Centaurs with a Swift Minded hero that are pretty amazing. Edit: I'm one of those who prefers to hoard his goblins to maximize my horde's anger and magic spoil for a final battle. So, no goblin creeping for this player.
To me they have the 2nd strongest start in the game after Sylvan and have an even better endgame. These guys are seriously butch.
I've been doing more tinkering with Kragh. Yes, the bad news is that Swift Mind doesn't work with him. The good news is that you can do even better than Swift Mind by having the Ogre set. The artifact bonus triggers with his initial attack and unless my math is off, .3>.25.
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Cleave
Promising
Famous Hero
Raging Blood
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posted May 13, 2008 08:28 PM |
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Edited by Cleave at 20:31, 13 May 2008.
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Quote:
There are things I can do with 4-5 stacks of Earth Daughters and one stack of Centaurs with a Swift Minded hero that are pretty amazing.
Sure, but you wouldn't qualify these things as "requir[ing] the tiniest amount of thinking and tactics" would you now?
Despite the swift mind thing Kragh is still by far my favourite barbarian hero.
Quote:
To me they have the 2nd strongest start in the game after Sylvan
Do you mean with Ossir? Because without Ossir, early game with Sylvan is not stellar.
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13 Heroes
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted May 13, 2008 09:07 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 21:13, 13 May 2008.
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This one did require a tiny amount of thinking  That comes from my duel map, week 5 armies, sphinx that gets heroes to lvl 21 and fully built towns for the guilds and special buildings.
Going might against inferno is definitely not easy, considering dark and all those gates. There are a few mistakes from both parts but in such a grand battle it's easy to slip once in a while.
To clarify a few things:
Puppet is not cast often because expert shatter dark vs 6 power makes it rather ineffective. Frenzy is a better option in comparison.
I did not dare to use defile magic, the goblins are not enough to have a serious impact on the opponent's spellcasting. Chances are I'd frenzy them too if they failed..
When the cyclopses were controlled they should probably attack the ballista but hitting two units with that laser is hard to resist 
That battle's course could have changed if inferno units were placed differently. Both heroes got tactics btw.
Oh and I should have targeted the seducers with the ballista first.
In a normal game there would be some artifacts so Kragh could have more knowledge. Also they would probably have logistics and Grok might have had warmachines. Depends on the map of course but here I picked battle skills for the most part.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted May 15, 2008 09:54 PM |
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I don't remember which I had posted, many have since been deleted. However lately I organized my replays and made a folder for battles with neutrals/garrisons/utopias and there are quite a few with stronghold.
Here, take a look.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted May 17, 2008 09:49 AM |
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No I use one main. Initially he carries centaurs and goblins(sometimes shamans too) and from week 3 on he also takes cyclopses. That's because by week 3 cyclopes(assuming I built them with castle week 2) with a ballista can take down most neutrals effortlessly.
Other units aren't really needed and you save money you could spend elsewhere. Only exception are the wyverns, if you manage to get some from a dwelling they are perfect against ranged units(regeneration) - I never build them before week 3-4 however.
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Lesij
Famous Hero
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posted November 02, 2008 08:57 PM |
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Use of units and comparison of upgrades...
OK. I haven't seen somethin like that yet (maybe I am far to lasy, but leave it), so I'll write a few words...
Let us get started:
Goblin:
Total orientation:
- weak
- fragile
- usufull in creeping
- u should do ur best to preserve as much as u can though
+ After upgrade- good divertion-maker- some kind of "miner" either booby trapping magic or might
Goblin
It's destination is to be used creeping as a meat-shield, in both warrior and centaur creeping patterns the Gobos are present and ready to die 
If u use centaur creeping- encircle ur shooter with gobos (quite obvious isn't it?)
If u use Warrior- make a meat cage for him in which can he move freely so as not to dampen rage...
GGGG
W G
G- 1 gobo stack
W- All ur warriors
Batining:
Baiting is a strategy where u use one of ur gobos as bait for low movent range creeps, or AN EXEPCTION if opposing stalkers.
One of ur gobos have to abbadon the formation and move to the other corner of the battlefield- then u move him close to the end of movement range (preferably one square) of hostile stack. One or (if u have luck) two stacks will pursue that goblin in spite of attacking the main order- then u can deal with one of the stacks not worrying to face all of them.
Usefull strategy when u use warriors to creep.
REMBER- the gobo is a baiter- u don't really need to kill him unless u don't feel confident about the fight. Do ur best to both- save the goblin and make ur hostiles pursue them.
Trapper
Now this guy is a true guriella- handy when u use centaur creeping. Ensnare ability really can save ur a** if u face tough guys.
In the late game- this goblin is really useful if u face might-oriented faction and u are not afraid of their spells. So Haven and Sylvan- MIGHT be good to fight this way...
Witch Doc
This is also a guirella- but magic one. He is A MUST if u face magic faction, but he is inferior to his alternative while creeping- of course- he does better damage- but in creeping his abilities aren't so usefull and- he is slower to trapper- so he can't be distracting creeps as fast as his dirty brother can...
Centaur:
Total orientation:
- Fragile
- The ONLY shotter
+ Nice in the job he does
+ Good rage bonuses
+ Can become quite fast if 2nd RL reached
Centaur
This our sniper If he can be called so...
Anyway- his delicate body can be really annoying if u are unlucky during the creeping. U can loose quite lots of these Horsies if u are not carefull enough. Baiting strategy of goblins can be really handy while facing overally tough guys...
If u feel confident with ur resources u can also go for trappers and upg ur centaurs too...
Nomad
The exoctic looking guy with a mysterius name... And that are all the benefits...
If u really feel confident and play large and reach map- u can use this upg to optimise ur creeping- that 1 + dmg if compared to his alternative can't help u a lot, but, it sometimes can let u kill a bit more. U can also use this thing if u are snobbish and like making stupid things to feel better
Manuever doesn't help a lot anyway...
But!
As Elvin said this upgrade (inefrior to Marauder) can be handy while facing dark mage...
And now why?
Because- Marauder can really do harm to your creatures in melee fight- can make a little diversion with gobos, shamans, cyclops, whatever...
Nomad- in melee fight does not make as big dmg and he dies faster- so dark mage wastes his PM and u gain (OMG O.O) 30 RP (that is so many... )
Now the weak can be strenght- also because of that Nomad can be underestimated by ur opponent and u can (hopefully) build up his rage to 3rd level- with which he becomes superior to Marauder...
Marauder
Can be ghandy while creeping- but not very much. Unless u are trustless to ur goblins and are afraid of the shooters to be harmed...
Nevertheles in late game this guy is the one u can count on. He can carry more dmg than his bro and can attack quite as efficently as Nomad does.
If ur enemy isn't dark caster- a must alternative...
And if he is- u can take him but be prepared to have him opposing u...
Warrior
Total oreintation:
+ Quite melee fighter
- Unless his bloodrage is low
+ Nice bonuses from BR
+ One of his upgs can become dmg carrier and total defender
- Second is less usefull
Warrior
Creeping with this guy and first aid tent is great. If u play it wisely u have no looses in ur main striek force at all...
Remeber- sacrifiencing one goblin is better to letting even one warrior to be killed
So- if this flail-dudes' lack only some points of rage to another level- don't be afraid of sacrifiencing the gobo- +5 life saves the life XD
Mauler
My favourite and could be really useful... But isn't...
He can be usefull in creeping on large an rich maps- he is quite fact and usually u face two stacks so he can handle them both with not being harmed much...
And now why.
Even though he is faster then the Warmonger is- he is far more fragile. He would be usefull- if there were lots of slower factions than Stronghold is. And slower or equal fast can be only- Haven, Necro and another Stronghold.
But Necro usually have something that is called dark magic- with which ur own Maulers will fight againts u
Why the speed and dmg is inferior to HP and dmg?
Because- when u let ur Mauler in the thick fight- he can be attacked countlessly times- when he attacks only once... He just can be DESTROYED then...
And
Warmonger
- who after 2nd BL has +8 HP and Endless Retailation- just build his rage all the time with really little looses. He can score great number of kills and reach 3rd level- with which he becomes an ultimate tank.
What's more in late game- he can be the personal guard of ur Cyclops! which is really useful when somebody want those one-eyed beasts to attack ur stacks with their laser beam attack () or great club attack...
He can become a devastating force too just standing and waiting for preys to come to him XD Like a spider XD
For example- u have ur warm rage-loaded and u have one unit more- for example cyclops- u place them in the way- that if enemy stack attacks the big guy- it will stand close to warm- warm uses taunt and scores another kill
His damage on reatailtion are sometimes really terryfing
Shaman:
+ Can be usefull in creeping
- In some cases u do not really know what to do with her... Attack or not to attack? That is the question...
+ Sacrifiece goblin is a great skill...
+ She's good caster
- The ONLY one
Shaman
Sometimes u can use her in creeping optimising it- the one population
of these girls can help u a lot for example while facing Hydras...
Their spells are really useful in boosting ur armies results...
Sky Daughter
If low in numbers- this upg. is far better than the alternative one. Not only can she cast more, but she can also use the destructive spell- which is in mid game very useful in outnumbering ur enemy's army.
Also- SD is quite good with getting rid of fragile casters' units...
However...
Earth Daughter
...Does much more better if high in numbers. Yes- she is another melee unit, but melee is the orientation of the Stronghold. And with her hexing attack- she can be nice helper attacker in destroying ur enemies units. Espiecially might ones.
Slayer
Total oreintation:
+ Massive dmg dealer
- Without RB quite fragile (unupg and execute)
+ Really nice in engaging unts
+ Can haste and overally help ur army (one upg.)
Slayer
This guy can be insanse damage dealer if u can save him to the moment he becomes less fragile (2nd BL). What else to say- engage and slain!
Executioner
Full-packed version of the Slayer. Better stats, frightful aura and bravery helps a lot. This guy IS a devastating force on the battlefield- if, of course, properly used...
The main destination the same- as Slayer's- engage and...
execute?
Chieftan
The underestimated hero of the orcs. At first everybody thoght he is inferior... Until the necros arrived XD
This guy- can haste some units in ur army with his Commanding Presence Aura and with the Order of the Chief ability- make, for example, Cyclops act as one of the firsts...
It is trurely a helper more than dmg dealer- but still he is worth to be in the orcish army, as soon as, he can also deal quite hard damage.
And- if Puppetiesed- cannot harm ur own army so much...
Wyvern
Total Orientation:
+ Flyer
- The only one
+ Regeneration/Scavenger
- Really delicate
+ Area or Poisonous Attack
Wyvern
Nothing really special. Only that she can flyyy O.O
What other units cannot do. Another thing that is takem from War Craft: "Boon Daboo" XD
Even they look quite similar...
Their fragility is just annoying. Especially if u face shooters- Regeneration cannot handle all the damage usually...
Foul
This one isn;t really inferior to Pao Kai. It depends really on who u face. This one, especially, can be usefull in the end-gaming fights. With this animal u can poison really hard all the stacks- even if greenies died- they had done their job well...
They can be really good to face cocky Haven and Dwarven dudes which think that the armor will let them stand any damage...
Pao Kai
Used by the most of orcish players...
They are much more durable due to Scavenger ability- ofc the their sisters and have Thane-like ability also.
What to say more- quite good and can do better than Fouls during sieges for example and when facing the Undead
At last ( I know I borde u a lot XD)
Cyclops
Total Orietnation:
+ Heavy damage dealers
- Slow
+ Can be either helper-massive dealer attacker either ultra-massive dealer attacker
- Can be easilly deavastate ur not ur hostiles army
+ Can be shooters
+ One goblin dead- One Cyclops full health!
Cyclops
This guys can carry out all the fight by themselves. On former friends I once got the center Island first (Iplayed Telsek- he played Haggash). All my wamrs were killed, all my centaurs were killed, everybody were killed in spite of about 6 cyclops. They smashed everything. And I would have won if the guy I played with didn't make a lag just after the fight- he was the hist (good reflex did he have). I had to quit the game with windows manager after the won fight -_- D'uh!
And it didn;t count! O.O
Still I don;t know if it was server breakdown or did the dude I played with lag the game in purpose (in some games it is possible- don't know if in heroes two)
Untames
Even more devastating power than the unupgraded version. Anyway- they can be ur worst enemies even if u are not facing the dark casters...
U have to place ur creatures very careful- unless u don't want them to be smashed by ur own Tier 7.
A lot of consciousness, hard thinking and good luck needed to play them well...
Blood-eyes
Less devastatind and more safe for ur army...
They can lower luck of ur enemies, are overally faster and have better initiative. They cannot destroy the walls though...
But they are a natural choice if u face Necro and other Dark-Catsers. Also- if u don;t fell confident with Untames it is better to choose these dudes. With this speed and initiative- well played- they can be as good dmg dealers as Untames are...
Everything depends on ur skill...
OK. End
I doubt anybody read it all If u read a half- then u are great and I do thank u for ur brain-endurance XD
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted November 04, 2008 08:04 PM |
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It's not that extensive Some comments.
Unupgraded goblins are far from useful in creeping. Maybe only in single stacks to block archers since they have good initiative.
About warrior creeping it's a very bad idea unless you use Telsek in which case you don't have much choice.
Witch doctors can be very important in creeping, you just have to face spellcasters. It's not how often he acts that I would mind but the fact that casters tend to act first - still he can be very valuable if most of the other creeps are done for.
About centaurs I never upgrade for creeping, mercury is not enough to spare even in small quantities.
Maulers aren't that bad. 11 init with morale and a possible double attack can get them killing machines in no time. Their damage and speed are verry nice with some rage, however tactically I prefer warmongers. One thing to keep in mind is that with swift mind, battlecry and tactics they can reach the other side and deal significant damage.
Shamans are great to use with empathy and excruciating strike Earth daughters are not good just because of that, it's their rage initiative that makes them deadly.
Executioners aren't only about damage. Their frightful aura can cause nasty surprises.
Chieftans also have good rage initiative, they act faster than executioners even if they only attack once. With the centaur combo they can have them shoot twice but what I really like is the +1 init to nearby units.
Wyverns are great creeping tools but who builds them early enough.. Cyclopes can do better. Fouls ones aren't even worth mentioning, their only bonus is that they don't divide their damage between eneies like their alternative. Regeneration isn't a serious compensation for blind immunity and consume corpse.
Btw. Everytime someone types XD or O.O a kitten dies  Protect the poor kittens.
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Lesij
Famous Hero
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posted November 04, 2008 08:18 PM |
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Edited by Lesij at 20:18, 04 Nov 2008.
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Quote:
Maulers aren't that bad. 11 init with morale and a possible double attack can get them killing machines in no time. Their damage and speed are verry nice with some rage, however tactically I prefer warmongers. One thing to keep in mind is that with swift mind, battlecry and tactics they can reach the other side and deal significant damage.
But then they can get smashed. Warmongers are not to be smashed unless they aren't raged enough...
If u compare the bonuses for each alternative then u get the view of survivalability of both.
Yeah- they can do significant damage but- noone can precisely tell if they will assault of won't. They are a bit too unpredictable to be better than Warms are...
About the creeping- and about who do u think I was talking about with using warriors?
About Wyverns- they aren't SO bad. Rarely does it appear- that ur enemy blinds them- they are to vulnerable to waste a precious mana
And also- if they poison lots of stacks (and u can have them in nice numbers) then- that can let you win.
What's more- there are situations when Scavenger cannot be used. With Fouls u are confident thet they will heal...
And in the end. I don't like kittens... 
XD o.O O.O O.o RolF Lmao GtfO omFg!!!111!!1
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted November 04, 2008 08:21 PM |
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You last comment sucks to the core apart from being spamming material. Please refrain from this in the future.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted November 04, 2008 08:32 PM |
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Unupgraded centaurs?
Ur serious Elvin? I thought they suck. Or rather, they sucked for me 
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted November 04, 2008 08:42 PM |
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I rarely lose any centaurs in creeping. Maybe if I were to attack casters but those I leave alone in the first 2 weeks unless I have good ballista and tent. If I do I don't need the upgrade anyway.
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Lesij
Famous Hero
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posted November 04, 2008 08:54 PM |
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K. Sry Elv
Anyway- could u plz refer to other, non-spammy comments?
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted November 04, 2008 09:09 PM |
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Poison is pretty weak for a compensation, no big deal. As for maulers I generally value them less than warmongers but think this: At first rage level they get 17 hp WITH rage reduction, that's pretty cool for lvl 3. Add second level and you get +3 damage that is insane. The real option is whether you want your units to remain and deal damage later or you want to dish out some good damage early. Tactically they add pressure to the opponent as he is trying to defend against many charging units.
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Lesij
Famous Hero
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posted November 04, 2008 09:25 PM |
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OK...
But raging up isn't so rapid...
I wanted to notice that in my big post (but I was to dizzy ), that if u get orc's ultimate- both Maulers and Nomads become eventually BETTER then they upgrades are...
The same it is with the 4th level of the Raging Blood...
Those inferior upgrades can kick a** if they can reach 6 lvl bloodrage...
But- this rarely happens so Marauders and Warms take the lead.
In my opinion- it is not only about the tactics but also about the easier playing...
If u take all reds- then u really have to watch all of them and be ready to get a really hard beating (for exchange u really hard beat ur enemy too) if u rather take yellows- then the beating is much slower and less 'fireworks' it has, but also it's less risky...
As I said before- orcs are quite slow and rage CANNOT prevent them from all attacks... Before they can load it up again- they can loose a great amout and become petty once again
More defensive they are- more rage is spared- more effective at the another attack can they be...
That is my piont of view...
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