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| Thread: Heroes 5 TotE Strategy: Playing Stronghold Faction |  This thread is pages long: 1 10 ... 17 18 19 20 21 ... 28 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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ebbafan
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted January 05, 2009 05:58 PM |
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just had a match with wyngaal...
my haggash crushed him!
even though his arcane archers got to go first he couldn't kill off my centaurs.
stormwind, tactics and a pair of necro arties stuffed his dragons and sprites.
i ended up choosing enlightenment over defense, my defense rating at the end was 29! i think that the defense bonus from enlightenment might be good enough, especially if it gets you over the hi-lo attack/defense threshold.
in another game i was incredibly fortunate. i got kragh with absolute rage and bloodfire as well as the lion set/weapons of might set/ and pendant of mastery! If you equip the lion set and weapons of might set, kragh effectively has empathy and swift mind, and with the weapons of might, just gets to keep on attacking! With bloodfire, absolute rage gives 750 rage points, and if you equip the pendant of mastery, you start out at level 3 rage! Even goblin witch doctors become scary at this point! 
i just wanted to point out that defense is very important for keeping rage, because when you attack, you only get a set amount, but when you get attacked you lose rage based on damage taken, so the less damage you take the more rage you keep. of course if you have initiative and morale increasing arties/abilities you get to attack more often and as a result get more rage.
another observation is that horde's anger now seems to work on black dragons! 
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Asheera
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
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posted January 05, 2009 09:08 PM |
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Quote:
in another game i was incredibly fortunate. i got kragh with absolute rage and bloodfire as well as the lion set/weapons of might set/ and pendant of mastery! If you equip the lion set and weapons of might set, kragh effectively has empathy and swift mind, and with the weapons of might, just gets to keep on attacking! With bloodfire, absolute rage gives 750 rage points, and if you equip the pendant of mastery, you start out at level 3 rage! Even goblin witch doctors become scary at this point!
That's simply an instant win from the moment you enter the battlefield  
And Horde's Anger is supposed to work on Black Dragons, isn't it? I mean, the Barbarians have no magic at all (except Shamans) so that shouldn't be considered magic.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 05, 2009 09:45 PM |
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Stronghold is a very strong faction in my opinion. But it feels sad that you are pretty much forced to take Shatter Dark, there should be a general skill called "Spellwarding", "Spellbreaking" or "Resistance".
I usually go like this:
1. Goblin Trappers. There trap is really useful and has saved me many times.
2. Centaur Marauders (those are the ones with the highest damage, right? I mainly play Sylvan). Just because they deal more damage.
3. The ugly red ones. They dish out some nice damage for a tier 3.
4. The Sky Daugther. Im a big fan of their chain lightning.
5. Pao-Kai. They look awesome and Lightning Breath is a nice ability.
6. Chieftans. So I can combo them with the Untamed Cyclops.
7. Untamed Cyclops, because I like big numbers.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Asheera
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
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posted January 05, 2009 09:52 PM |
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Paokais are tier 6 
Also, the Sky Daughter is one of the worst choices, followed by the Mauler (tier 3). The Chain Lightning costs more mana than she has at start (meaning you have to sacrifice Goblins to cast it), and even then it has only a Basic mastery IIRC. As for the Mauler, he deals good damage but the hit points are pathetic, at least compared to the Warmonger. And Assault is not that great to compensate IMO
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 05, 2009 11:45 PM |
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Well that shows how much I play Stronghold
Still a fun faction though.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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adon
Known Hero
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posted January 06, 2009 12:35 AM |
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Quote:
Paokais are tier 6
Also, the Sky Daughter is one of the worst choices, followed by the Mauler (tier 3). The Chain Lightning costs more mana than she has at start (meaning you have to sacrifice Goblins to cast it), and even then it has only a Basic mastery IIRC. As for the Mauler, he deals good damage but the hit points are pathetic, at least compared to the Warmonger. And Assault is not that great to compensate IMO
Hah...I remember championing the Warmonger cause on some thread (this one maybe?) a year ago and could find no one to back me up. Everyone went for the mauler I think because of initiative or speed. And I was saying that the Warmongers incredible hit point advantage over maulers and taunt and massive retaliation gave Stronghold a much needed tanky unit early on and mid game. Nice to see the mindset has switched a bit
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted January 06, 2009 01:03 AM |
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Sky daughters would probably be awesome with refined mana, order of chief and the sar issus set.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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eldiez10
Hired Hero
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posted February 19, 2009 07:55 PM |
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i have a question i hope you pros can answer.
i just finished a mulit player game with a good freind of mine. he rolled stronghold i i rolled necro
the game ended with me as the winner but only because i had puppet master otherwise i would have lost bigtime. my 29 banshees couldnt even finish off 1 of hes cyclops i think i did like 140 damage to it
after this match we agreed not to use puppetmaster because its kind of overpowered(i dont know if there is a countermove to puppet master i so i would like to know the secret)
and this leads to my question what are the weakest side of stronghold
cause i cant se me beating them with lets say haven they just got to much attack defence and rage (i usually take non-magic skills with haven only ligth magic is an eception)
what options do i have plz help me improve my game
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phoenixreborn
Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
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posted February 19, 2009 08:39 PM |
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You can start by not banning puppet master.
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted February 19, 2009 10:32 PM |
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Edited by Lexxan at 22:34, 19 Feb 2009.
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Lol, later they'll ban Dark Magic all together, LMAO 
Stronghold vs Necro?
Dark IS the way to beat Stronghold, most factions (except maybe Haven and Fortress) CANNOT beat Stronghold on the Might Department (and thus need Dark/Destructive to beat them...)
Expert Slow, Expert Sorrow, Suffering, And Especially Confusion and Frenzy are the way to go... Prepare for Shatter Dark, so you might want to take Destructive + COld Death instead of Summoning (something the Stronghold Player will expect). It's essential that your have the Element of Surprise. Experiment with "Unothodox" Builds, even with Destructive or Power of Speed (through attack) if nessecairy. There ALWAYS is a way.
Enlightement and Swift Mind are a MUST. Without them, it's a lot more difficult. Dark is essential, Summoning can be replaced by Destructive, even Luck if you can get it...
Puppet Master is not nessecairy; it's even possible with Vampirism, Or even better, Curse of the Netherworld.
[someone please find the flaws in this]
Well, On topic, Beating Stronghold with Haven:
When playing against Stronghold with Haven you can expect them to have Attack, War Machines (Tripple Flaming Ballista), and Shatter Light.
What Stronghold Player will not expect is Dark Magic - Or at least less than Light. A Good strategy (not the best, but I mostly use it) is Retribution + Empathy + Magic, Which is either Dark or Light - Empathy allows you to accelerate mulptiple Frenzies after eachother with Dark, while with Light, you can Spawn Powerfull Ressurrections and Buffs (Haste, Endurance, and Righteous Might mainly). Mass Spells are essential with both schools.
As for the Skills, you might want to take Defence (soaks up the dammage + it leads to Preparation with Tactics) and Luck (Soldier's lUck and Dead Man's Luck mainly) in addition to Attack, Leadership and Light/Dark, but I'd prefer Enlightement to Luck (especially with Word of Light/Puppet) if offered (Chances are pretty slim though, and if the Barb has Luck himself, you might want to take it as well). Swift Mind is not a bad idea either.
As for the Units, you need to rely on your own experiences and taste. (I myself would prefer Conscripts, Crossbowmen, Vindicators, Battle Griffins, Inquisitors, Champions and Archangels in this case, but in the end, the choice is up to you)
This analysis is hypothetical and probably flawed - You WILL need to rely on your own experience either way - Noob or Expert Player.
There are many ways to beat Stronghold, you only need to find the one that suits you the best 
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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Clay_Man
Known Hero
TOH gamer
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posted February 19, 2009 11:31 PM |
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Quote:
Dark IS the way to beat Stronghold, most factions (except maybe Haven and Fortress) CANNOT beat Stronghold on the Might Department (and thus need Dark/Destructive to beat them...)
True, but sometimes even Haven's might is not enough 
Quote:
Expert Slow, Expert Sorrow, Suffering, And Especially Confusion and Frenzy are the way to go... Prepare for Shatter Dark, so you might want to take Destructive + COld Death instead of Summoning (something the Stronghold Player will expect).
Also true, but trust me, besides academy or sylvan summoning is useless.
Quote:
Puppet Master is not nessecairy; it's even possible with Vampirism, Or even better, Curse of the Netherworld.
[someone please find the flaws in this]
There's only one flaw, namely that puppet is BY FAR one of the best ways to deal with orc. You need decent SP, though.
Quote:
Well, On topic, Beating Stronghold with Haven:
When playing against Stronghold with Haven you can expect them to have Attack, War Machines (Tripple Flaming Ballista), and Shatter Light.
What Stronghold Player will not expect is Dark Magic - Or at least less than Light. A Good strategy (not the best, but I mostly use it) is Retribution + Empathy + Magic, Which is either Dark or Light - Empathy allows you to accelerate mulptiple Frenzies after eachother with Dark, while with Light, you can Spawn Powerfull Ressurrections and Buffs (Haste, Endurance, and Righteous Might mainly). Mass Spells are essential with both schools.
As for the Skills, you might want to take Defence (soaks up the dammage + it leads to Preparation with Tactics) and Luck (Soldier's lUck and Dead Man's Luck mainly) in addition to Attack, Leadership and Light/Dark, but I'd prefer Enlightement to Luck (especially with Word of Light/Puppet) if offered (Chances are pretty slim though, and if the Barb has Luck himself, you might want to take it as well). Swift Mind is not a bad idea either.
As for the Units, you need to rely on your own experiences and taste. (I myself would prefer Conscripts, Crossbowmen, Vindicators, Battle Griffins, Inquisitors, Champions and Archangels in this case, but in the end, the choice is up to you)
This analysis is hypothetical and probably flawed - You WILL need to rely on your own experience either way - Noob or Expert Player.
There are many ways to beat Stronghold, you only need to find the one that suits you the best
Good advise, but you should NEVER EVER choose battle griffs, and DM's luck is kinda useless. Also with haven if you don't have some sp. boosting, might over magic and shatter perks will actually decrease your sp. to a pathetic level where dark + rez. spamming will become useless.
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted February 19, 2009 11:45 PM |
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Thanks for Replaying Clay_man
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True, but sometimes even Haven's might is not enough
Yes, but at least they have Light.
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Also true, but trust me, besides academy or sylvan summoning is useless.
Sylvan??? Don't you mean Necro? Or Dungeon? And imo, Summoning is a very powerfull (but unreliable) Magic School. Hive, Phoenix, Barrier are very good Spells to use (not even mentionning Phantom Forces). Apart from the High Spellpower Factions, it's kinda useless.
Quote:
[someone please find the flaws in this]
There's only one flaw, namely that puppet is BY FAR one of the best ways to deal with orc. You need decent SP, though.
Flaws in the entire post, is what I meant Either way, I agree: Puppet is one of the Best (but I consider Frenzy near-to-equal with Puppet vs Orcs)
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Good advise, but you should NEVER EVER choose battle griffs, and DM's luck is kinda useless
- 1 Luck has it's uses if the Barb doesn't have Luck or low Luck. -10% for Luck to trigger has it's uses. Battle Griffins are weaker than Imperials, but last a lot longer (especially with Irina) .
Quote:
Also with haven if you don't have some sp. boosting, might over magic and shatter perks will actually decrease your sp. to a pathetic level where dark + rez. spamming will become useless
I myself wouldn't bet too much on the Knight's Dark myself, if I were a Barbarian; Light speeds up Gameplay a lot more than Dark does, but I recon that there's quite a significant chance that the enemy Barb will not have Shatter Dark. Might over Magic is, indeed, a problem without Enlightement/Spellpower Arties.
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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Clay_Man
Known Hero
TOH gamer
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posted February 20, 2009 12:26 AM |
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Edited by Clay_Man at 00:36, 20 Feb 2009.
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About summoning - yes, sylvan is pretty good with it mainly because:
1 Rain of arrows with wasp swarm is a pain in the @ss because of init reduction, also phantomed druids/arcanes are pretty good.
2 Druids with their SP boost (kinda obvious ofc )
3 Blade barriers/hives/crystal. AAs and druids will shoot your ballista down, and they're gonna be protected by ancient treants, meaning they're perfectly protected while shooting away. (Ok, maybe this can be somehow countered with fear my roar or horde's anger)
Necro should use dark, about dungeon i don't really know, but if i play as orc vs necro or dungeon i aim for setting up a quick strike (tactics, +1 speed aura, +1 speed boots, battlecry, high morale/luck etc.)
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted February 20, 2009 08:29 AM |
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With Dungeon against Stronghold, I usually try a combination of Summoning and Teleport Assault, but it mostly depends on the enemy's perks and Skill with Stronghold overall, whether I win or not (My Dungeon is somewhat average). Dungeon could rush Stronghold ofc (with Yrwanna or Vayshan)
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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Asheera
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
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posted February 20, 2009 03:48 PM |
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Edited by Asheera at 15:49, 20 Feb 2009.
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Shatters are overestimated. Expert Shatter Destruction only lowers the effectiveness of level 4/5 spells by one mastery, not game-breaking (though indeed, you should use only level 4-5 spells since the others are crippled a lot) The abilities are a lot better though, like the one decreasing the Spellpower to half, or the one making your turn come 25% slower.
What I meant with overestimated is that if you get a shatter and the enemy doesn't have that magic school, you wasted a lot of skills.
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razor5
Famous Hero
Freezing...
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posted February 20, 2009 03:51 PM |
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Actually,Dungeon's heros which primary attribute is spellpower and the secondary one attack,they can use them against very weak Stronghold spells and all the magic.With only 2-3 spells (if I remember correctly,because I don't play much with Stronghold) is easy to defeat when it comes a "spell-battle".Anyway,their racial skills and powerful creatures make them a powerful faction.Agree with Lex about using Teleport Assault against orcs.
About what Xerox said,I agree.Sky Daughters are a powerful tier 4 creature because of their spells.I mean,it's easy to cast the Chain Lightning 2 times in a (huge) battle,from killing the little goblins,which are one of the worst creatures,but an useful one.
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Asheera
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
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posted February 20, 2009 03:58 PM |
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Chain Lightning (which is already a kinda weak spell) with only basic mastery... no thanks, I'd choose Earth Daughters all the way, with their improved stats & Hexing Attack.
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razor5
Famous Hero
Freezing...
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posted February 20, 2009 04:06 PM |
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It's more useful to have it at Basic Mastery with the Sky Daughters much faster then winning battles,gaining experience,and having the Advanced or more powerful Expert Mastery at your hero.I prefer Sky Daughters,but well...everyone with his strategy
Anyway,with a non-Barbarian hero,you can't gain mana from the Goblins
k,the Earth Daughters had better stats,but as I say above,I find the Chain Lightng useful even when the Sky Daughters had only the Basic Mastery
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted February 20, 2009 09:46 PM |
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Quote:
Chain Lightning (which is already a kinda weak spell) with only basic mastery... no thanks, I'd choose Earth Daughters all the way, with their improved stats & Hexing Attack.
Like Elvin said, Sky Daughter kinda own with Refined Mana
but, yeah, Earth are a lot better overall
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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Nikita
Famous Hero
Meepo is underrated
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posted March 22, 2009 03:29 AM |
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Earth are way better then Sky,not counting earth's abilities,but her speed and overall strenth over sky.Plus they are one of 1st to get 2nd blood rage bonus.
Since Stronghold isnt defending nation,why waste one turn to eat goblin,then do chain while half of your army is gone.
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I havent lost my mind... I have it backed up somewhere 8-)
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