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| Thread: Sorcery - how good it is in fact? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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Nemira
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 22, 2007 06:08 PM |
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Sorcery - how good it is in fact?
Hey guys! Except Academy and Dungeon, how good is sorcery for rest of towns / heroes?
As example, am very puzzled if to take sorcery when playing Necropolis, it looks tempting on paper for the 30% speed up when casting, but how good is in reality? Also I am aware that mass spells which tend to be necros main arsenal, are not affected by it.
Considering a random hero who has necromancy and let's say dark magic as starting skills, you would pick logistics if offered early, then attack or defence, summoning magic ofc and I think that's it in short games? As you would want all 3 perks from dark magic, prolly 1 from summoning, and another 1 from attack / defence?
On the other hand sorcery might look good on a knight because of small mana pool, or inferno player / ranger?
Please enlighten :>
-Nemi
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feluniozbunio
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted October 22, 2007 06:12 PM |
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Sorcery is good for each hero that uses summoning or destructive. Can be good for other schools if you plan on using high lvl spells. Basically its needed for every mage.
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dschingi
Famous Hero
the guy with the dragon golem
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posted October 22, 2007 06:20 PM |
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For Academy, Dungeon and Necro I try to get it in nearly every game. I prefer it over Enlightenment as acting more often with magic heroes is usually better than having better knowledge/spellpower. That's my opinion, I'm pretty sure there are some people who think otherwise...
If you want a good ballista, sorcery becomes of less priority as you need attack for flaming arrows and maybe luck and enlightenment. That probably leaves no room for sorcery.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted October 22, 2007 06:51 PM |
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I think one thing that's important to keep in mind about Sorcery is that the Hero, even with Sorcery, is a fairly slow "creature". Sorcery will give your Hero an effective Initiative of 14 after casting the first spell, which is pretty good, but in late game, Artifacts (Ring of Speed, Ring of Celerity, etc.) and Spells (Mass Haste) coupled with the fact that players will generally have access to natively fast creatures will be likely to mean that Hero will have trouble keeping up with the action rate of units. Therefore, in late game, when Magic looses importance, Sorcery will also loose importance.
Taking Sorcery is therefore not a good option if you plan for a long-game strategy (i.e. Haven). Notable exception will be if you go for Empathy also - I played Fortress once with Empathy + Sorcery + Destructive, and the result was really amazing (of course, that was a Fortress vs. Fortress vs. Fortress map, and Fortress is not exactly known for having the swiftest units - vs. Sylvan or Inferno, result might have looked differently).
Also, like Feluniozbunio said, Sorcery works best with Summoning and Destructive magic, because Mass Spell perks for Light/Dark make Sorcery redundant (spells only use 50 % Initiative with this option). Thus, unless you plan spamming Blind, Frenzy, Puppet Master or Ressurection, you'll not have much use of Sorcery with factions that primarily uses these schools.
____________
What will happen now?
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pinkspear
Known Hero
Crazy like a fool
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posted October 22, 2007 07:05 PM |
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Don't forget sorcery's perks! A warlock without mana reg/arcane training/erratic mana becomes very weakened imo. I think sorcery is a must with destr. magic anyways.
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Nirual
Famous Hero
Imbued Ballista
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posted October 22, 2007 07:15 PM |
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Edited by Nirual at 19:18, 22 Oct 2007.
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Sorcery is pretty vital for any heavy caster. If you cast spells like PM that have no mass versions often, the speed up is noticable, and if you do cast Mass Spells, the perks will help with the fact that you'll be spending a lot of spells pretty fast (Mass spells cost twice as much as the single target versions, and you can cast two of them in the time you'd cast a normal spell without sorcery).
Especially for necromancers and warlocks given their low knowledge. Wizards are probably fine without if they focus on mass casting, but whats the point given the awesomeness they can invoke with MotW now?
As for less magic-inclined factions, they usually aren't great with knowledge either. Enlightment only does so much to help that. Intelligence doubles the manapool, but doesn't help regeneration.
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In ur base killing ur doods... and raising them as undeads.
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Jabarkas
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 23, 2007 07:48 AM |
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Erling with Distract and Empathy was my favourite spell-tosser... of course, TotE opens for more heroes to have those two perks, but Erling is still unique, since most magic heroes have far too low chance to get Leadership.
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted October 23, 2007 03:46 PM |
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Never thought of combining empathy with sorcery... sounds great however with TotE and more factions being able to get empathy. I cant really remember if Dungeon has the skill, but it would probably give great results...
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Jabarkas
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 23, 2007 04:22 PM |
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Dungeon has 2% to get Leadership... but Kythra starts with it, so there you have a good hero if you want to go for it. Erling can reach Distract + Empathy at level 13, while Kythra reach it at level 15.
Now, personally I feel that Erling has the upper hand here, since he can grab Warlock's Luck or Ignite in 4 levels, while Kythra needs 6 levels for the same deal. Add to this that Erling can get Runic Attunement also, to further boost the morale bonus of his units.
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skullman
Famous Hero
banned
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posted October 23, 2007 05:08 PM |
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Quote:
Dungeon has 2% to get Leadership...
Only 2% i would say 20% because i get it pretty often
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Jabarkas
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 23, 2007 06:06 PM |
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Quote:
Only 2% i would say 20% because i get it pretty often
That cuts in to another thread here (Academy-strat thread) where there is a discussion about probabilities.
The short and simple answer is that you can't rely on that you'll get Leadership in time if you've a Warlock (outside of Kythra)... like Runemages can't rely on getting Sorcery.
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Slim-Sleeper
Hired Hero
Lazy
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posted October 23, 2007 06:23 PM |
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Well, if I aim for a mid game with say necro I would ofc try to become a strong mage..
Dark, summ, sorc, elight, and... whatever actually.. prolly not luck..
With a little luck I get around 100 mana.. with sorc you can do alot with 100 mana.. with motn you can do more : )
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skullman
Famous Hero
banned
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posted October 23, 2007 08:33 PM |
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does that mean you have some difficulity in raising your knowledge
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sdfx
Famous Hero
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posted October 23, 2007 08:57 PM |
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The main sorcery strength is the ability to(hopefully..) act twice between most creatures' turns.
VS AI: creeps act and then sorcery should make a hero act twice between most dangerous creatures' turns. Generally, it's creep dependant how good at creeping sorcery really is because if, for example, it's needed for fighting mostly 10 initiative creeps like master hunters, mages then basic sorcery is good enough because it allows the hero to act 2 times between their turn(on average). Adv sorcery is of course even better but it just may not make much of a difference because basic sorcery already does the most important thing:acting twice. On the other hand, bad luck happens so ALL stupid creeps' stacks may get +0.25 ATB.. so to make everything perfectly reliable still exp sorcery is needed.
On the other hand, having such bad luck is unlikely, so on average having basic log and advanced sorcery may be much better than having no log and expert sorcery.
In final battle exp sorcery is very welcomed as long as it does well its main purpose: acting twice between most powerful creatures' turns.
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Moonlith
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
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posted October 23, 2007 09:35 PM |
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I think Sorcery is VERY vital for those Mages that lack a lot of Knowledge (Necro, Dungeon), if only for the mana reducing and mana regeneration perks. The quicker casting, in that sense, you can consider a bonus on top of that.
Although I reckon many will say you could use mana-reducing artifacts... I rather have different artifacts in those slots.
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Nirual
Famous Hero
Imbued Ballista
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posted October 23, 2007 11:15 PM |
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Quote:
Although I reckon many will say you could use mana-reducing artifacts... I rather have different artifacts in those slots.
There is exactly one artifact that reduces mana cost, the Ring of Saar-Issus. Which is a great pick anyway unless you need a ring slot for a set bonus, and have a Ring of Speed in the other slot.
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In ur base killing ur doods... and raising them as undeads.
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Moonlith
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
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posted October 23, 2007 11:21 PM |
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Ring of Speed and Staff of the netherworld are musts  they ALWAYS go there no matter what alternatives you have, Initiative truly breaks game.
Ring of Scar-thingy may reduce spell cost by half, but it doesn't increase casting speed. I rather have a different ring there and have Sorcery + mana skills.
By the way, how comes a second ini-increasing doesn't work? 
1 Ring of Speed + Another ring of speed still only gives 1 ring of speed effect...
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grow
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 24, 2007 07:11 AM |
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Edited by grow at 07:18, 24 Oct 2007.
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didnt know 2 different ini' artifacts didnt add together lol...so much for 2 from now on, anyway...
any faction realistically could have a decent use for sorcery, or shout u could say for stronghold...
obviously for academy/dungeon its primary to have but ive used with others: heh: knight with sorcery/divine guidence/unicorn bow was like never-ending/everlasting crossbow men and inquis' lol, dangerous but of course its not a must, especially for knight i'd say because there light magic and basic overall "might" is superior to any other faction imo
but u get the point..magers should definatly take it and others, whatever u feel like doing lol
edit: actually when i was playing necro campaign and the map where u capture 4 haven towns and use 4 necro heroes other than arantir to open way to last town, that last town was ummm "well-equipped"
sorcery was useful with arantir especially in that last town battle, the hero in castle kept using phantom force on everything, and i just cast frenzy the whole fight, literally lol cause he would cleanse PM by time the creature would attack since it loses slots on atb...but sorcery was nice in that situation 
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nothing is predictable
grow me
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dale
Known Hero
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posted October 26, 2007 06:01 AM |
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Quote:
Hey guys! Except Academy and Dungeon, how good is sorcery for rest of towns / heroes?
As example, am very puzzled if to take sorcery when playing Necropolis
I am playing through the basic game, mostly favoring Necropolis. I rarely take sorcery. I find that my hero often gets to cast late in the game, sometimes only after the battle is more than half over. By then, I might do a mark of necromancer and/or raise dead to keep my troops intact -- but not much else. It is only when attacking a castle with a lot of troops that I need a real spell (puppet master is great!).
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Grey Beards of the world, Unite :-}}
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted October 26, 2007 11:48 AM |
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If you face a swift faction you may really wish you could cast blind/frenzy/puppet or summoning spells faster. Yes, initially you want mass curses but they are not what will determine the battle.
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