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| Thread: Unusual hero build & strategies with them |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · NEXT» |
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Drunk_Lord
Known Hero
very happy hero :)
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posted February 05, 2008 09:46 PM |
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Unusual hero build & strategies with them
Well, I think the title speaks for itself  I decided to write something new so I started this one. It’s all about unlikely strategies, new hero builds, that shall make ur opponent’s mouth take the shape of the perfect comic “O”  Also u’ll have the element of surprise by ur side  Example with one of my hero builds: probably if u play dungeon ur opponent will(99%) of the time suggest u’ll rush him. But no, u use unusual might combo with a magic faction leaving ur opponent fall into false sense of security  when u two meet on the battlefield he’ll expect most of the times to try to blast him with destructive. So he concentrate on building his hero in such way that he’ll be able to avoid ur magic, but imagine his surprise when he sees that u’ve done some unknown hero build and ends with some wasted skills and probably a turn wasted
Now the general part:
Haven:
Haven is, I must think, a faction which isn’t very rich of strategy choices. So. For haven if I want surprises I usually pick Dark, Attack, Defense, Logs and Leadership.
Dark Magic-usually I go for master of mind-shrug darkness and seal of darkness to tackle enemy dark(if not playing vs a good dark caster I take master of curses instead). People often get surprised when they see a knight with dark  (personally I enjoy this very much, I’m totally pissed off of being twenty-four hour holy dude  ) So its nice beginning, opponent will aim to counter u’r light magic I think. It’s nice too, cause the inquisitors will also support u with their light spells, and u may take Fallen Knight and begin casting Puppet Master or maybe frenzy, not bad choice either.
Attack-a usual pick, I like tactics and retribution here
Defense-I pick power of endurance here. Combined with suffering it means sh*t for ur opponent personally I take stand your ground here
Logs-swift mind + frenzy is really good, although slow may do good too. Silent stalker I like here.
Leadership-uuuh? I take this if I plan on using PM or frenzy (empathy) But divine guidance is also a very nice ability.
With Vittorio I skip logs and leadership sometimes and count on mass spells + enlightment for ballista and primary skills as well. Tent skill proved useful to me sometimes 
The bad thing here is that u're vurnable to dark magic. Also watch ur mana rate, which might also play u a joke
Sylvan:
Haha, here is a very funny part for me when I play with sylvan. Get skills:Summoning, Attack, War Machines, Leadership and Logs\Luck. Explanation:
Summoning-I just get it on exp level. I don't really needed any perks from it.
Attack-nothing uncommon here. As always when playing ballista take flaming arrows and tactics.
War machines-not much to explain. Just go for triple balista and imbue balista.
Leadership-empathy. To suit our little needs
Logs or Luck-I had hard time deciding between these two. Swift mind is great for this strategy, but I just can't figure sylvan without luck... maybe if u take it in leadership's place.
Now to put everything in one place: U need imbue arrow+wasp swarm+rain of arrows+imbue balista=4 wasp swarmed stacks in short time. If u have pendant of mastery stacks become 5! Imagine 5 stacks from seven stunned! U'll mop the floor with them Btw does wasp swarm's stunning effect triggers triple on ballsita? I haven't paid much attention. But if it does ...
Empathy and swift mind are very nice supporters for this build and that's why I ignore luck...
My favorite hero for this tactic... ...I think u already guessed... ...Dirael... ...Summon hive will also be great in addition to all
Second strategy with sylvan: First apologize because I've been a bit theory crafting here, so excuse me if something's wrong please maybe this strategy isn't something unusual nowdays, but I'm going to write it anyway
Skills are:
Destructive-Ignite. What to say here.
Enlightment-Intelligence cause u lack mana. I like to get Wizard's Reward. Extra stats.
War macines-again triple balista and imbue balista
Leadership-for the same reason like in previous build
Attack-Flaming arrows
Get the alt. upgrade druids to boost spellpower. Enlightment will also boost it a bit. So we have decent SPP now why not do something evil imbue arrow and imbue balista with area effect fire spell and have fun. Empathy once again will help u. Balista Eternal !
Favorite hero for this one is Vinrael, because he's not so might orientated
Logs-Swift mind does very good, but enlightment may do even better. I have hard time when deciding between this two 
Necro:
Maybe not a rare tactic but anyway:
I use Naadir and concentrate on attacking power:
Summoning-Master Of Life, Master Of Conjuration-Fire Warriors
Dark-Master Of Mind is must and Master Of Curses(not so crucial)
Attack-Archery-Flaming Arrows
War Machines-Triple balista
Enlightment-Intelligence-usually dark revalation
Just get necromancy + fire elements + good balista + dark and Naadirs special. U'll like the results.
A good one for midgame. I have also some succeses in lategame with this one.
Inferno:
I won a game vs a mighty sylvan player this way. It was endgame and we both had good armies. His one was a bit bigger, but I balanced the scales soon Btw I submitted this one somewhere.
I built hero(Deleb) this way:
Summoning-Master Of Conjuration, Fire Warriors
Sorcerery-Gone the way for Distract
Enlightment-Intelligence-Wizard's Reward, Dark Revalation
Attack-Flaming Arrows
War machines-triple balista
A very nice build methink, u get very good balista + summoning around 50 fire elementals with 15 SPP. And if u find some good arties (el. waistband, some dragon arties, robe of sar-isus) u can summon twice more the elements are devastating. And if u clone them... the enemy will probably cast at them = useless. I used arcane armor and sacrficed some weak units in order to give the balista and the elementals enough time(those fire elementals need much time, init is the only weak thing in them). U can really surprise u'r enemy that way
Another strategy:
This one is build up around hellfire.
Destructive-Searing Fires
Enlightment-Intelligence-Wizard's Reward and Dark Revelation
Leadership-I take Divine Guidance
Luck-Soldier's luck
Attack-Power Of Speed and Tactics(I prefer)or Cold Steel
Not much to say. Enlightment will boost ur SPP(and boosting hellfire), Leadership, Div. guidance, Power of speed and Soldier's luck will grant Hellfire additional chance to trigger. U may even cause ur enemy some harm with destructive or use it wise to slow or reduce their def for example I tested this yesterday and today(4 games with it) so it's secured and it's not theory crafted like a community friend said.
It isn't such a great tactic, but gives u edge in midgame. I go for lvl up fast, usually with Grawl, take more XP from chests and get good lvl(26 lvl in midgame). But this build is sucky for endgame 
Dungeon:
My first and one of my favorites:
Dark magic-Master Of Curses and Master Of Mind
Attack-Power Of Speed and Retribution
Defense-Power Of Endurance
Leadership-Aura Of Swiftness
Luck-I usually pick up resistance and resourcefulnes
Work very good for me. Firstly Dark magic has sooo wicked uses vampirism on furies, a nasty PM or frenzy... Mass spell are also very good: Mass Slow + Mass Haste(on advanced cuz of perk) + Mass Suffering + Mass Endurane(advanced lvl again). Only slow + haste are superb. If u add suffering and endurance he won't be able to kill much . And retribution + luck is wicked too. I like this combo much because it's fighting, planning, not just mindless blasting well, I have to add, blasting isn't mindless, but ...
Again, u're vurnable to dark magic if u use this one. I trying to find some counters now
Academy:
In my opinion anything can pop out of academy. They're just unpredictable
My favorite here is with Razzak. Maybe it isn't such unusual tactic because as I said academy are full of strategies 
Razzak's skills are:
Dark-Master Of Curses and Master Of Mind
Summoning-Master Of Life
Leadership-Artificial Glory-Aura Of Swiftness
Logs-March Of The Golems and Teleport Assault
This one really makes golems invincible. I usually arcane armor golems and Teleport Assault them in the middle of the battle. With arcane armor and Razzak enemy hardly kills a golem but he'll probably aim for my precious gremlin masters to prevent them from repairing. I use some raise dead when u need repairing. Artificial Glory, Aura Of Swiftness and March Of the Golems(+3 speed together ) will increase their usefulness in battle much.
I re-worked this one and add some things:
Summoning-Master Of life
Leadership-Artificial Glory-Aura Of Swiftness
Logs-March Of The Golems and Teleport Assault
Attack-I aimed for retribution, to see if it works with artificial glory, but the test game ended a bit earlier than I expected, so I'm not sure of that one.
Luck-(maybe instead of attack) Lucky golem attacks
Here's something:
Summoning-just on exp lvl
Sorcerery-counterspell(recommended) or distract
Leadership-Glory and Empathy
Logs-Swift Mind
Enlightment-too bad u need it for Swift mind and Empathy.
So here we go. U just need MotW + Phatnom forces. Swift Mind, Empathy and Sorc. are great boosters for that. Just use MotW to a creatures u want to clone and then clone some other creature. U get two clones per cast, so u can spam many clones in short time And the nasty counterspell believe me, those clones won't die easily
Fortress:
Fortress, our tanky and slow(not so much ) friends are here. This isn't very worked-out strategy and I'll try to add another one soon
Anyway the strategy is:
Light magic-Master Of Abjuration-Fire Resistance
Destructive-Master Of Fire-Ignite-Sap Magic
Luck-Dwarven Luck
Defense-Protection
Enlightment-Intelligence
If I'm right from Fire Resistance, Protection and Sap Magic u get 85% fire spell damage reduction and immunity to armor damaging effect. Excelent if u plan on using armageddon. With resistance some of ur creatures will resist and if ur lucky with runes and get rune of magic immunity u'll suffer nearly no damage from armageddon-lol nearly immune to armageddon and if u get crystal ice shield it becomes even better...
Warlock's luck might be a good addon but u'll need to sacrafice some other things from the build. Not that crucial.
I reworked some skills now:
Destructive-Ignite-Sap Magic
Enlightment-Intelligence and Tap Runes
Sorcerery-Distract
Luck-Warlock's Luck
Defense-I like defense because of protection and maybe some other skills. Sometimes I'm tempted to take light and fire resistance instead.
Not too much to explain here, I take blast power and some spell reduction abilities.
This build isn't unusual, but I submited it anyway
Edit:Another strategy with fortress:
Because my good friend Forest001 said that this strats are bad, cause the can't be achived that easy, I decided to suggest something for him
Build vs Dark casters
Light magic-Master Of Abjuration-Eternal Light, Master of Blessing(to counter dark)
Dark magic-Master Of Mind-Shrug Darkness and Supress Dark(I preffer Master of Curses)
Defense-Vitality-Defensive Formation-Preparation
Attack-Tactics-Offensive Formation-Battle Frenzy
Luck-Magic Resistance-Dwarven Luck and maybe Soldier's luck
Just position ur units well and defend to activate preparation. With Master Of Abjuration and formations ur army wil be extremely tough. With all those perks to weaken dark u'll hardly suffer much from it.
I don't say u'll win all the times with this one, but it's a real torture for ur enemy
Stronghold:
Not played them much for some reason. Coming soon.
Again I apologize for the missing strategy with Stronghold. I hope u enjoyed this thread More strategies are comming...
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Thanatos
Known Hero
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posted February 05, 2008 10:13 PM |
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Nice strategies, but some of them will probably often not work because of the extremely low chance of some crucial skills appearing (Academy only gets 2% for Logistics and Sylvan has only a 2% chance to get War Machines).
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Drunk_Lord
Known Hero
very happy hero :)
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posted February 05, 2008 10:15 PM |
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U're somewhat right, although I tested all strategies properly except the second with sylvan and the fortress one and I got all the needed skills
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forest001
Known Hero
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posted February 06, 2008 10:14 AM |
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Quote:
Nice strategies, but some of them will probably often not work because of the extremely low chance of some crucial skills appearing (Academy only gets 2% for Logistics and Sylvan has only a 2% chance to get War Machines).
in fact those strats are impossible, in every strategy you have one or better two skills witch 2% chance (sometimes spells like vampirism for dungeon 0%chance), i think they work nice only in theory.
those builds are just chosen nice skills from skillwheel, without thinking about that they will never appear.
in most cases it's easer to get ultimate skill for each faction than one of those 'great' strategies.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted February 06, 2008 10:25 AM |
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I say it depends on the map and luck. Yes it won't happen many times but if it does some rare builds can give you the edge so better be prepared for the possibility.
I did not have much time to read it all, will comment later.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted February 06, 2008 10:26 AM |
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Actually I have had success with similar 'unusual' builds. Especially since the enemy just doesn't expect it. Though there are some hard to get skills, my luck is such that I usually get offered weird skill choices.
For instance, more then once with Haven here have been some of my 2 skill, 2 perk choices.
Basic Destruction Navigation
Basic Sorcery Estates
Now this was a main mind you. Now the best might be Estates, but estates on a main. Ugh.
Basic Summons Diplomacy
Basic Defense Inteligence
Seems I get offered Sylvan War_Machines a disproportionate ammount of times also. And Necro Leadership way way too often.
It really depends on luck, some people just have unusual luck.
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Message received.
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forest001
Known Hero
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posted February 06, 2008 10:36 AM |
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Quote:
Actually I have had success with similar 'unusual' builds. Especially since the enemy just doesn't expect it. Though there are some hard to get skills, my luck is such that I usually get offered weird skill choices.
For instance, more then once with Haven here have been some of my 2 skill, 2 perk choices.
Basic Destruction Navigation
Basic Sorcery Estates
Now this was a main mind you. Now the best might be Estates, but estates on a main. Ugh.
Basic Summons Diplomacy
Basic Defense Inteligence
Seems I get offered Sylvan War_Machines a disproportionate ammount of times also. And Necro Leadership way way too often.
It really depends on luck, some people just have unusual luck.
i agree with that, but this doesn't mean that it's 'useful' luck,
sorcery and destruction for knight aren't best choices. my point is that those strats are like 1% chance, because you may be lucky once, but not all the time.
bit offtopic: can you guys tell me if summoned elementals stack up? or disappear when you cast spell second time? thanks.
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted February 06, 2008 10:39 AM |
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Neither actually. Now they don't stack, but the first doesn't dissapear either. Creates a 2nd stack. Kinda silly/lame to be honest.
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Message received.
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forest001
Known Hero
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posted February 06, 2008 10:48 AM |
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Quote:
Neither actually. Now they don't stack, but the first doesn't dissapear either. Creates a 2nd stack. Kinda silly/lame to be honest.
so right read this then
by Drunk_Lord
Quote:
Well, actually they stack In every game I played in original HOMMV, Hamers of Fate or Tote they stack. Don't know, maybe its a bug or something like that. Well, if I'm wrong for this(glad for any feedback ) I'm happy u sad it.
Anyway I had:elemental waistband, robe of sar-isus(not sure is i wrote it right), dragon teeth necklace and book of power.
That makes 15 + 6 + 4 + 3 + 3 + 4(master of conjuration) = 35 SPP and when u add Fire Warriors here it comes...
he's just theory crafter that's all.
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okrane
Famous Hero
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posted February 06, 2008 11:14 AM |
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In ToE summon elementals summons a stack of elementals and the previous elemental stack is destroyed.
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Drunk_Lord
Known Hero
very happy hero :)
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posted February 06, 2008 11:14 AM |
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Quote:
so right read this then
by Drunk_Lord
Quote:
Well, actually they stack In every game I played in original HOMMV, Hamers of Fate or Tote they stack. Don't know, maybe its a bug or something like that. Well, if I'm wrong for this(glad for any feedback ) I'm happy u said it.
Anyway I had:elemental waistband, robe of sar-isus(not sure is i wrote it right), dragon teeth necklace and book of power.
That makes 15 + 6 + 4 + 3 + 3 + 4(master of conjuration) = 35 SPP and when u add Fire Warriors here it comes...
he's just theory crafter that's all.
very kind of u After all, I've got to say that I tested all strategies well(and some not so well ) to be sure they'll work. Maybe I'm theory crafting sometimes, but always testing the strategy later.
About getting the right skills it's not so hard(methink), because in my games I(sooner or later) get offered the needed skill. It may not be easy to get a 2% chance skill, but it's not so unlikely to pop up after a few levels I think this skills aren't easy to get, but still accessible.
Edit: Forest001 I saw ur post where u say that dark is impossible for dungeon. Well, if u don't know there are Vaults Of the Mages, other towns, dragon utopias, lol (I'm sure I missed something)
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kermit
Known Hero
Soul hunter
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posted February 06, 2008 11:29 AM |
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Well umm interesting stuff, but unless you have a memory mentor on a map and a 100k GOLD to waste it's highly unlikely you will get the perks you need for those builds.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted February 06, 2008 11:47 AM |
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No with good planning you almost always get what you want unless it's 2% which might be rarer Misty's case sounds like getting a skill to expert without having other basic skills which can be avoided. Yes I have been offered warmachines more times than I'd expect with sylvan but it's not worth it if you are not offered them early.
Haven: Actually dark builds are not rare, it's just that people were used to haven being light oriented in the past. Swift mind and dark sounds good but mana will still be scarce. Anyway most of the times you'll have 3 skills maybe 4, not enough level ups for more.
Sylvan: I have tried a warmachine/flaming arrows/destructive build and it is sweet Wasp swarm with rain of arrows is not bad but I would not use that in a map with little chances to learn summoning spells. Btw I have tried imbuing summon hive, the place is instantly crowded with those But mana goes down real fast. As for destructive good spells to imbue are ice bold/circle with cold death or fireball with master of fire.
Inferno: Summoning can work with many factions as long as you get the right spells. But if not for fire warriors I would never pick it for inferno, dark is just more useful.
Dungeon: Yep but wait till you see your own raiders puppeted Dungeon can hit hard, especially with this build but you still get hit hard and have no counter to dark. Also without destructive you have a much slower game and the focus should be to end a game fast before the opponent builds up a powerful army.
Academy: Actually divine guidance does not affect mechanical. Never tried making a good golem army, I trust more in magic than might Well except the cases I got luck and flaming arrows. It could probably work.
Fortress: I don't see why you would pick both light and destructive if you want armageddon strategies. Your key units are immune to fire when upgraded anyway so you are better off taking skills like warlock's luck, tap runes or empathy.
Not bad for a start though
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Map also hosted on Moddb
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Drunk_Lord
Known Hero
very happy hero :)
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posted February 06, 2008 11:53 AM |
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Quote:
Fortress: I don't see why you would pick both light and destructive if you want armageddon strategies. Your key units are immune to fire when upgraded anyway so you are better off taking skills like warlock's luck, tap runes or empathy.
Yeah, I know and I'm reworking it right now (and some others as well )
Quote:
Not bad for a start though
thanx
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okrane
Famous Hero
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posted February 06, 2008 05:55 PM |
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Theorycrafting is nice. However, it would be better to try them in actual games(against human players) and then post the results. That would in somewhat validate your theories.
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Drunk_Lord
Known Hero
very happy hero :)
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posted February 06, 2008 06:07 PM |
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Btw I'm getting tired of repeating it : I tested nearly all strategies properly and only one or two aren't tested is some situations or worked-out with the best combination
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okrane
Famous Hero
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posted February 06, 2008 06:17 PM |
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Replays or it didn't happen
I'm not trying to flame you, just to make you develop these things.
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Drunk_Lord
Known Hero
very happy hero :)
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posted February 06, 2008 06:22 PM |
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Well,thank u, ur excused
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Orfinn
Supreme Hero
Werewolf Duke
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posted February 06, 2008 08:00 PM |
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I love the sylvan part, you convinced me to try that one out
100 years you say? And you are of the humorous kind, no wonder you live that long, a good mood and laughter extends your life "somewhat"
sry off-topic *cough*
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Drunk_Lord
Known Hero
very happy hero :)
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posted February 07, 2008 06:14 PM |
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Edit: I posted two strategies . One with inferno and one with fortress(the fortress one is for u, "dear friend" Forest001 )
Hope u like those
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