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| Thread: Heroes ranking |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · NEXT» |
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maretti
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted February 25, 2008 12:31 AM |
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Edited by angelito at 09:42, 01 Sep 2009.
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Heroes ranking
Which hero you choose as your main hero is pretty essential. What is your top 10 of heroes you would like to apear in your tavern day 1? Diffrent heroes are better in diffrent situations. Orrin is strong with tower but weak with inferno. To keep this simple your top 10 should relate to Castle on Jebus xl 130%. This should be a setup most people can relate to. Diplo and necro is not allowed but all other heroes are allowed.
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Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck
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dimis
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted February 25, 2008 12:56 AM |
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Edited by dimis at 03:59, 25 Feb 2008.
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1) Crag-Hack or Gunnar or both!
2) Alamar
3) One hero that starts with slow
4+) Estates, Gold specialists / resource specialists.
Edit: Now that I think about it, Tazar is not a bad option either! Nothing will go down on battles, and even if it will, I can resurrect it! Not to mention expert clone... 
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted February 25, 2008 08:15 AM |
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Edited by angelito at 08:17, 25 Feb 2008.
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1. Gunnar
2. Crag Hack
3. Tazar
4. Mephala
5. Gundula
6. Kyrre
7. Dessa
8. Gretchin
9. Alkin
10.Dace
This is the list if played regular mode. If played native style, I would make some different choices/rankings.
P.S: I hope I did get the idea of the list right. This should be 10 possible main heroes, right? And not 10 heroes who would ALL be usefull in 1 single game....
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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maretti
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted February 25, 2008 12:38 PM |
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Yes Angelito, you got it right. Imo its pretty obvious that its more important to get a strong main hero than getting some strong scouts. It wasnt the intention that you could get all 10 heroes, just one. So Dimis should probably redo his list.
Interesting list you got there. The often banned Mulich dosent even apear in the top 10.
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Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck
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dimis
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted February 26, 2008 12:11 AM |
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my top 10
01 - 03) As I said earlier:
Crag-Hack, Gunnar, and Tazar.
As of the final order, I can't decide between Crag and Taz. Angelito is prolly right that Gunnar should go first due to log. But among the other two, the choice is difficult. May be I would go with Taz for diversity (if you can say so!).
For the rest:
04 - 05) Mephala, Kyrre (again I can't decide the order)
06) Damacon - but this guy might very well deserve to be on spot [4]
07) Dace
08) Shakti ( same as Dace, but not so handsome! )
09) Alkin
10) Tyraxor
Initially I thought I could fit somewhere above Orrin, but it turned out not to be the case... I also didn't include Gundula, but this might be due to my limited (and bad) experience with her ... Oh, I think you allowed all 4-level-spellcasters and sorcery specialists, or should I change the above? 
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The empty set
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maretti
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted February 26, 2008 01:49 AM |
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Edited by maretti at 19:03, 19 Mar 2008.
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Quote:
Oh, I think you allowed all 4-level-spellcasters and sorcery specialists, or should I change the above?
I really hope (and asume) that you are joking here.
Its actually damn hard to make this ranking. Maybe thats why so few wanna participate, otherwise I really dont get it. But at least thanks to Dimis and Angelito.
I better post my list:
1. Crag Hack
2. Tazar
3. Gunnar
4. Mephala
5. Kyrre
6. Neela
7. Gundula
8. Sir Mulich
9. Tyrexor
10. Alkin
Its hard to place Sir Mulich because he is so strong week 1 compared to later in the game that its actually often a good idea to use him as (partly) main week 1 and then swich to a log, off or arm specialist week 2.
Feel free to comment on my list or even flame me for my list. I have this strange feeling that its all wrong, so it would be nice to get a discussion going here.
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Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck
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friendofgunnar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
able to speed up time
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posted February 26, 2008 07:50 AM |
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1. Gunnar
2. Crag
3. Mullich
4. That Planeswalker dude that starts with 3 3 1 1 log and offense
5 - 10 would be any Planeswalker or Overlord 
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted February 26, 2008 10:10 AM |
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Even though Mullich has cape of velocity nailed on his back, he still stays a knight. And that's why he doesn't appear in my list
And Neela....yes....she may be a good girl also, but as I mentioned in an earlier thread, I can't remember any good game (good skiil tree) with her, so she turned into a no-go for me.
Deciding between those barbarians is always a tough thing to go. If played natives, I would have chosen Gurnisson of course.
What I find interesting in your choice Anders is, you didn't mention Dessa. Why is that? I know its a battle mage...but so is Gundula....log speciality vs offense speciality....tough call....
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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maretti
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted February 26, 2008 11:30 AM |
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Edited by maretti at 17:37, 13 Mar 2008.
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I guess its just bad experience with Dessa. She is fast yes, but the 2nd skilling is not good at all, and if she loses to many troops all the time, its not good enough to be fast. Battle mages has 9 (I think) in log so Gundula has a high chance of getting log and she has the nessesary might power for neutral creatures to attack your fodder instead of your powerstacks. Dessa is simply to weak in both her primary and secundary skilling. On the other hand Dessa is probably better with castle than many other towns because castle is the best town to avoid loses.
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Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck
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Devangle1984
Known Hero
I am the Dark Vader
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posted February 26, 2008 02:51 PM |
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My list would be :
1) Craig hack.(My man)
2) Tazar(Pretty obvious reason and in my eyes only second hack).
3) Gunner(Good spec, Starting skills and overlords have a good skill tree).
4) Tyraxor(Has a good skill tree and his staring skills are very usefull Plus is a barb ).
5) Gurnison(love this guy, can do wonders).
6) Alkin(has a habit of geting excellent skills and a solid start skills).
7) Gandula(Very powerfull but still lacks firepower compared to hack).
8) Kyree/Meph(good spec but me experience with them are not tat good).
9) Luna (like it or not, this lady is not only a good scout but can do amazing things in the early stages of the game, i have even broken on wk1 in jeb thanks to her).
10) Shakthi/Gretchin(has good starting skills and very good skill tree for shakthi and gretchin can be very fierce).
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Devangle1984
Known Hero
I am the Dark Vader
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posted February 26, 2008 03:08 PM |
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very dissapointed to see u not pick gurni dirk hehe, tat balista of his can take out a lot of competition vs environment specially, and anders its very hard for me to point ur flaws out cause more often than not i take ur lead, but one thing i know for sure is u tend to not see the potential of scouts as luna, she is not only usefull at the start weeks, but also very good at clearing out slow units in the t-zone,its not very hard to buff luna a bit and recharge mana in jebus. Neela has a good spec but my experience with her is very poor, i get earth 1 out of every 6 games maybe with her and the skill tree im not in awe with. Barbs and overlords fill my list more or less cause they are very aggresive(look mean too ).
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted February 26, 2008 05:37 PM |
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Cleaned.
This is the library, not the Volcanic Wastelands....just a reminder..
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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tigris
Supreme Hero
Supreme Noobolator
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posted February 27, 2008 09:23 PM |
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Library=not being able to joke in another "Online vs Single player" Thread?
Obviously the guys that play online like might and the guys that end their games in month 5 still think solmyr is the bomb.
Cool thing is this never stops and more and more ppl at least get a taste of this game even after such a long time after it was lauched.
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maretti
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted February 27, 2008 09:27 PM |
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Lets see your list foo!
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Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck
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dimis
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted March 12, 2008 07:13 PM |
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So, maretti ... what do you want to talk about?
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The empty set
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maretti
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted March 13, 2008 05:31 PM |
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Edited by maretti at 17:35, 13 Mar 2008.
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@Dimis: Whats so great about Damacon?
@FriendOfGunnar: Whats so great about planewalkers?
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Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck
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dimis
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted March 13, 2008 06:10 PM |
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Edited by dimis at 18:29, 13 Mar 2008.
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I think that Damacon is underrated by many mainly because he starts with just a single skill and therefore you might be worried during the first two level ups. Now, Taz and Crag, obviously compensate that "problem" because of their specialty. But that's the reason they are ranked so high on my list. On the other hand, on average Damacon is expected to perform similarly to them (or to be precise better than them) when you think about Earth magic. Moreover, he has very good chances of acquiring logistics (only Demoniacs are better and 2 heroes from Conflux). Starts with Offense, and when Tactics also comes into consideration there is no one to match him. With respect to Armorer he is better than all the Barbarians apart from Crag, so I consider that as an extra plus to his skill progression. Plus the fact that $350 per day is a good resource on poor maps. Of course Dungeon is expensive, but you might find him in the tavern of another faction. Now for very large maps, although I have almost no experience at all , I expect him to be real good also due to his high chances of acquiring fire ==> berserk. But you are more capable than me to answer something like that.
Overall, I think it's worth the risk. Yet we need some testing. lol I might switch from Crag to Damacon next time I test something. I believe that the results are going to be very encouraging.
Btw, if it happens that he doesn't get a good skill during his first two levels, you can always switch to another guy from your tavern. I wouldn't do that unless I have a really good alternative; yet, it is still an option you can not neglect. Moreover, the above are 7 good reasons (Earth + 1 more magic school + Wisdom ) to compensate a probably crappy skill during the first two level-ups. I know that the order in which you acquire and advance your skills matters, but I hope I pass my message.
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The empty set
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maretti
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted March 14, 2008 12:07 AM |
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Regarding earth magic overlords and beastmasters have exactly the same chance to get it. Barbarians have a bit lower chance but their chance of getting earth and air is higher. Besides that I feel that with a barbarian you can decline fire and still be pretty sure to get both air and earth whereas on overlords and beastmasters you will have to take water/fire to have some security if you dont get air early.
Quote:
Starts with Offense, and when Tactics also comes into consideration there is no one to match him.
What do you mean? The skill tactics? Cause I know two fellows who allready have tactics (Dace, Shakti) Why not go with them? You dont risk a bad skill on lvl 3 and you start with the usefull skill tactics.
Quote:
With respect to Armorer he is better than all the Barbarians apart from Crag
Both overlords and barbarians have 6 in armor. They have the same developement in defence so are you talking about the 2 def overlords start with? I dont believe thats much of a diffrence.
All in all I can see that his 350 gold is nice, but its not really that important on a main. Besides that I dont really see why you consider him to be so good.
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Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck
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dimis
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Digitally signed by FoG
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posted March 14, 2008 01:42 AM |
bonus applied by angelito on 17 Mar 2008. |
Edited by angelito at 12:29, 17 Mar 2008.
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Is it sooo bad to start with just one skill?
Well, the weight table doesn't say the whole truth now, does it?
The main point is that the very same fact that most people fear, is actually working *for* Damacon when you level up. Yes, he starts with one skill at advanced level, so if something goes really really bad you won't be offered something good within three offers; which is strange (but can occur). On the other hand, starting with one skill at advanced level, means that you start with one skill less. Which in other words means, that during level-ups you will be offered more times an option for a new skill. Which in turn will increase your chance of acquiring the skill that you want (simply because Overlords have high chance on those that you want). If you have a look on the AL table, then you can verify that heroes that start with a single skill outperform the rest in the same class when you are looking for a specific skill. I assume it is clear that Damacon has higher chance than anybody else among Overlords in order to get what you want. So I'll stick to a comparison of him with the other two classes.
Which are the skills that you want the most - especially in the beginning when it is most critical?
The killing machine comes with Armorer, Earth, Logistics, Offense, and Tactics.
Ok. Let's see how much do these sum for the three hero-classes that we want:
Barbarians: 34
Beastmasters: 32
Damacon: 35
So far, Damacon is the clear winner in the sum.
Let me justify that it is even better than what it is shown above.
When you consider this group as new skills, then you have to subtract 10 from Barbarians (Offense), 10 from Beastmasters (Armorer), and 8 (!!!) from Damacon. So the sums become:
Barbarians: 24
Beastmasters: 22
Damacon: 27
The point is that Damacon starts with Offense (which is generally preferable to Armorer) just like Barbarians. So, he *gains* some chances for the rest of the skills in the above group. Now, in order to prove that he advances better has more chances of acquiring a specific skill than Barbarians, I think it is enough to show this with respect to Crag Hack (because he is the guy who starts with one skill in his class and therefore he is the guy who advances better with better chances of acquiring a specific skill than the rest in his class ). But the above sum pretty much says everything you need to know more or less! Even at level 2, Crag will have 24/102 chances of getting one extra skill among the ones in the critical group, while Damacon will have 27/104, which is almost 7% higher than Crag. It might not seem much and it is not that close to the ratio (27-24)/24, but it is the details that concern us now and hey, I am comparing somebody to Crag Hack!  Overall, Damacon develops better. Damacon has higher chance on acquiring one of those skills.
As far as Tactics is concerned, I guess you agree that Overlords are the rulers, since they come with a 10. Now, Damacon, is the only hero with a 10 in Tactics and starts with just one skill. Therefore he is on top among all those that do not have Tactics in the beginning.
As for Dace and Shakti, I think they are right after Damacon in my list. The point is that Damacon might get Log before them at expert level. Again because of his vulnerability of starting with just one skill.
One more note regarding Armorer when you compare a Barbarian with Damacon. If they happen to have skills in the above group apart from Armorer, then the sum of those skills will be larger in the case of Damacon. But this in turn implies, that the denominator which expresses the probability of acquiring Armorer is smaller in the case of Damacon. Hence, he has increased probability of acquiring Armorer although he has the same weight on that skill as a Barbarian (assuming that the wanted skills are the only ones you have).
Oh, and as you pointed out, Damacon's specialty is never wasted with any faction.
I am saying only the good stuff I guess ... but I think the above make him really interesting.
Edit by angelito
+ QP applied.
Very nice explanation why an often overlooked hero can even be slightly better than good old Crag Hack when it comes down to skill tree...
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The empty set
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liophy
Famous Hero
Bulgarian
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posted March 14, 2008 12:27 PM |
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So Damacon has 1% higher chance to get slightly faster the off/arm/log/tact/eart combo.
But what are the chances to get crappy second skill and to ruin all this math?
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