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| Thread: let ppl decide-war clan |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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gmmari
Adventuring Hero
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posted March 17, 2008 01:44 AM |
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Hit and run done by main hero should be accept for all the risk that the main hero take (shackless,init artie..)while we can accept to ban from all secondary hero in my opinion(but also here i don't understand really why).
Consider only scout tactic,mass spell can kill all scout in 1 cast
so it's not so easy for dungeon decide to attack and he risk seriusly to lose his game in a stupid way..
Don't abuse of this ban rule or the game will lose his funny like strider have explain better than me or the next step will be ban
armageddon tactic,ban puppet master,ban some hero,ban ban ban..
Also ban divine vengeance is not right,that spell is really strong but if each player know how it works we have some "medicine" about it
I'm contrary to any type of rule infact i really like when in my match with insatiable we decide before to play "no rules".
Each player and each faction have some secret to show every time and to lose a game if the other study some strange tactic it's the way
to learn more and have more funny.
I'm a sport man and when i play i try to win but if i lose i can only say to the other "congrats",no matter what way he choose he sure have played better than me,that's all
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gmmari
Adventuring Hero
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posted March 17, 2008 02:03 AM |
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if your planning to surrender you are not permitted to deal dmg to an enemies army before doing so
Destro what are you saying??
who plan to enter in a fight for the goal to surrender??
Only me decide if i have to fight or if i have to surrender and if want to suicide myself with some scout that's only my decision not yours and only i decide if i have to do damege to you!
I repeat i don't use this scout tactic for attack the main hero in the final battle then to turn again after some day with full army,
BUT
i cast all that i can and i try to fight and retreat home if i meet
an enemy hero in "neutral land"(artefact area and so ...)because it's my dirict to defend my position in that particular area of the map and trying to make weak my enemy!
All clear now?
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destro23
Promising
Famous Hero
Keeper of GrongGrong
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posted March 17, 2008 02:12 AM |
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I think your misunderstanding a bit.
Situation:
I have 7 stacks of 1 creature. No matter which town. I see other main hero with full army ahead and within range I have the following options :
Option A) Continue with turn as planned forget main hero.
Option B) Attack main hero, intending to retreat my hero for reinforcements. If I attack his hero and my plan is to "go home" I won't deal his army dmg. If I am playing a NO hit and run rule.
Option C) Uh oh... hes gonna cream me.. I turn around forget the turn and head for home or joining army on foot avoiding main hero.
Now if Opponent chases your hero down in an attempt to catch you with your pants down. Yes I will deal as much dmg as possible to him before retreating.
To me hit and run means
The attacking of a army or hero with the intention of crippling it before it has a chance to retaliate and running away.
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vesuvius
Hero of Order
Honor Above all Else
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posted March 17, 2008 04:50 AM |
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If you played on Heroic (I know, most if not all of you think its a bad thing) and the maps played weren't as resource intensive, hit and run would be a bad idea. You simply wouldn't have the cash to keep buying a 3500 gold hero and doing it so many times. It would mean your doom in the end.
Ahh if ppl played me 2 minute turns on heroic, I'd be playing heroes like a madman online.
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Elit
Famous Hero
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posted March 17, 2008 07:56 AM |
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"Hit and run" is when you use same hero few times to attac your oponent, cast him destructive spels/kill with army and run befor he can do any action/1st turn on battle. Hit and run is when you use main/second hero with 7 stacs for cast spels and run after it.
-When you use hero for cast spels and he die its NOT "hit and run" but not nice too...so better to be avoid.
-When battle is over 3 full turns any side can leave battle and it's NOT "hit and run".
Main problem for "hit and run" come vs Dungeon...and its realy crap if your oponent abuse this. From other side dugeon power is his spels so if he leave battle after few turns...it's can be smart move not "hit and run".
About balance...it's dream and never can have perfect balance...but game is much interest and fun. So play and don't cry much when loss.
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the_teacher
Supreme Hero
Talk to the hand!
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posted March 17, 2008 10:18 AM |
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all this thread is orbiting around the DUNGEON only cheap invisible stalkers tactic vs. ANY OTHER race. this is one of the few situations which might be considered as a flaw by some players.
i never encoutered yet, in an "offcial" game, a hit and run in its plain meaning other than dungeon's, not even with dwarves and their famous armageddon, for some facts i dont wanna mention here.
i personally was the victim of this stalkers tactic  (blame samiekl once again, he fooled me to play his map ), and i guess beatin horde of real dragons, might require a plan, an army, a time to build that army, for all races except dungeon. so would a be a bit frustrating, but thats the game, i accepted the loss, although with a day or 2 more given to me, i could have had countered that tactic.
was a bit pissed off, i admit, but not because the fact he saved his entire army from the beginnin, using only level 1, but for the fact that even under those hostile odds i could've won with a bit more time to my disposal (1-2 days as i mentioned before), then the victory wouldve been even sweeter than usual knowing that i coudl defeat a hero who grabbed the entire h5 artifact editor and had no losses during entire game. i reported right the way and chilled shortly after. this is game, what can i do?! he didnt cheat, just "(ab)use", if not too brutal said, a game "flaw" which can be so easily corrected by lowering stalkers initiative to 6 or 7.
i know sound painless for samiekl if they do that, cause he will have to move the next level
the rest of hit and run situations i consider it almost inexistent, its all abotu dungeon and stalkers.
i had game when there were 4 main heroes encounters during the game, i won first 3 while marching towards his town, he retreated , and i lost to the final one in a very close fight leaving opponent with few vindicators alive on the battlefield, lots of casualties for both sides each encounter. i would never consider this situation a hit and run, the player should go on fighting till the last chance (practically) is wasted, then surrender.
hoping few fixes a will come in a hypotethical patch, lets enjoy waht it was given to us so far.
have a nice day
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted March 17, 2008 11:35 AM |
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Hahahaha, i didnt fool you with anything. We played Let's Fight, a map with very strong guardians where fight isnt possible before week 4. Seems ok to me. All fights for me were close to suicide, i didnt hit and run, just did my game. 
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the_teacher
Supreme Hero
Talk to the hand!
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posted March 17, 2008 11:37 AM |
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Quote:
Hahahaha, i didnt fool you with anything. We played Let's Fight, a map with very strong guardians where fight isnt possible before week 4. Seems ok to me. All fights for me were close to suicide, i didnt hit and run, just did my game.
i was just kidding, i fooled myself not knowing that dungeon can mock me like that . u did well to win
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sq79
Famous Hero
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posted March 17, 2008 11:47 AM |
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All this talk about dungeon never really existed during hof where we found dungeon to be slightly underpowered in bigger maps, and its not hard to see why.
Having tried 5-6 games in tote where all the special perks for certain races is now made available to all races, obviously dungeon benefitted the most from it.
Swift mind - Hero gets 25-50% boost on atb
This perk was supposed to be meant for fortress against sylvan or haven where they have a chance to cast mass endurance before getting smacked on the first strike.
In dungeon's hands, its become really scary maybe only race that can avoid is sylvan, even so, last 2 games i had,one game the hero still moves before emerald dragons with int 15
Firewall - Coupled with invisible, its made creeping really ridiculous in early games if u get it, of course its luck here.
Last stand - Now this is the one that is hopeless and makes hit and run perfect !! With 2 furies or stalkers of 7 stacks, u can even win a final battle with it coupled with swift mind and good spellpower !! 
But still its a 2% skill here.
All this perks, with swift mind, u almost guaranteed to make sure opponent gets smacked by a meteor shower or armagedon before they starts to move.
Overall, dungeon can and have proved to win games without the need for hit and run nowadays even on big maps
So why hit and run when the game is winnable ?
Though u can still do it,but at the expense of frustrating the opponent
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gmmari
Adventuring Hero
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posted March 17, 2008 12:07 PM |
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Elit i'm agree with you and it's this i'm trying to explain.
I'm only considering the case in wich i attack with a medium army(not only scout and this is the point),i do all that i can also with the risk of my skin (this means 2/3 turn depends by many situacion)and for me this is not "hit and run"
In this time if the other player not have the right mass spell or the time to kill all my army or simply he play bad and lose many army
this is not my fault,i will reatet before to lose my hero and the game will continue.
We continue this discussion a bit stupid only because there is a clan war with this stupid rule that i mistake to accept and because i want that when i will play will be all clear during the game for me and for all the other 5 player that have to play this war.
hit and run is a particular ability of dungeon and each player should consider this,every player can and have to do his proper action in order to defend his game and his hero.
The real point is that i mistake to accept this rule if someone
have fear to play against dungeon only for this he should choose the dungeon way and try how it's difficult to play a good dungeon..
All knows that my clan was sylvan before and i never asked to many dungeon player i've played not to use this tactic because it's a great part of this faction..next step will be to ban expert destruction?or to ban mentoring skill?
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted March 17, 2008 12:20 PM |
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Edited by samiekl at 12:22, 17 Mar 2008.
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The thing is hit and run can be countered by every faction, not using shackles. Now, when people play the same game again and again and instead of finding ways to counter it, they start complaining... well, nothing's left to say here. What if dungeon played the same game again and again? What if we just break the HG garrison in the old fashioned way with horde of hydras waiting for them to regenerate and spend like 1 hour to break that garrison? But no, dungeon players, or at least me, tried to play competitive in later stages of the game too and we won more and more games without using hit and runs. We didnt complain about how snowty is dungeon in large maps, but tried to find ways. Why dont you people try to find ways to counter hit and runs instead of complaining?
Another thing...stalkers overpowered..., sure, change anything to dungeon and you'll see the hof dungeon again hitting and running you time after time.... I mean, every faction has ways to go through the game without losses, dungeon has invisibility.
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okrane
Famous Hero
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posted March 17, 2008 12:36 PM |
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Edited by okrane at 12:37, 17 Mar 2008.
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Nice post samiekl. Do you have a clan yet? I wanna join a Dungeon clan 
I don't think Dungeon is much stronger than others, it's just that their playstyle is much more different and it implies rushing. So all factions must be prepared for that.
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Kispagat
Famous Hero
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posted March 17, 2008 03:17 PM |
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I think hit and run is not exact word for it, I would call kamikaze instead, beacuse there is always a chance that this tactic will kill the attacker hero.
Its not only dungeon and not only destructive.
Just to open the discussion to other factions also,and from my own experience I want to tell you how I lost againt Al Killmore.
I played sylvan on HG, I broke and suddenly Kaspar began to move to my territorry with several ghosts.
I was suspicios and I attacked him with only my dragons to kill him without losses. I dont need to say I have not seen so much miss, miss,miss.....
Then it was Kaspar's turn: Frenzy
Dragons killed each other surrounded by "dancing ghost"
I lost 7 dragons out of 20 before killing him, so the game was over.
But this is part of a game, and you need to get word of light to counter it.
Of course I dont know what happens if he has last stand as well.
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diegis
Supreme Hero
power of Zamolxis
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posted March 17, 2008 07:18 PM |
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Edited by diegis at 19:33, 17 Mar 2008.
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dont mention here not all castles have this chance to use hit and run...right barbarians?
Dont mention here, how dungeon ,move from mine to mine to utopia..like a real stroll, rushing everything up...
It's fun, indeed when you are trying to catch those stalkers..but need to accept the game is almost over for you and take it as it comes...funny 
I tried and was almost to kill samiekl main, couple of times...but luck was on his side..I start to believe always will be the same
(samiekl, it seems to me u found ur favorite tools...thats make me think ur happy...good for you  . I cant wait to see on field mate)
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dacian falx behind you
-knowledge itself is power-
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted March 17, 2008 07:45 PM |
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Luck??? Hahahahaha, evading your troops' blockage is called skill, not luck
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diegis
Supreme Hero
power of Zamolxis
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posted March 17, 2008 07:48 PM |
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Quote:
Luck??? Hahahahaha, evading your troops' blockage is called skill, not luck
sure..why not?
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dacian falx behind you
-knowledge itself is power-
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Strider_HL
Famous Hero
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posted March 17, 2008 11:05 PM |
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Well, we are setting up a clan and initially I wanted to choose Dungeion philosophy. Now, it seems that this faction has amassed a buckload of negative aura 
Besides, though I'm against multitude of rules, there are some points I'd like to clarify... It just seems that if anyone used it in real battle, opponent would just go mad 
Let's consider a magic faction (academy, dungeon, runemage, necro). Most of them would take enlightement. Now, with mentoring you can create several kamikadze + destructive magic.
If you apply the rule "in war and love there are no rules" then it would be feasible to launch all those trained kamikadze on opponenets main hero and only after that attack him with main army.
This way its quite easy to deplete opponent's forces by some 50%. The outcome of final battle is almost assured...
No doubt it's very dishonourable! Yet, in real life war situation this would be considered a very smart move and people would praise this general hehe...
So, what do you think of this? Can this be implemented here???
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DIEGIS
Supreme Hero
power of Zamolxis
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posted March 18, 2008 08:03 AM |
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Quote:
Yet, in real life war situation this would be considered a very smart move and people would praise this general hehe...
So, what do you think of this? Can this be implemented here???
As far as I remember, theres rules on real war as well, this way the pleasure of any "war game" would die soon.
Except for the talibans...hehe 
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dacian falx behind you
-knowledge itself is power-
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Strider_HL
Famous Hero
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posted March 18, 2008 02:01 PM |
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Sad thing is that due to this overwhelming bad image of Dungeon, I've changed my mind and registered a Sylvan clan instead...
Anyway, I'll always propose to play full random instead of default clan factions. I hope my opponenets will do the same
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Kispagat
Famous Hero
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posted March 18, 2008 02:44 PM |
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Quote:
Sad thing is that due to this overwhelming bad image of Dungeon, I've changed my mind and registered a Sylvan clan instead...
Anyway, I'll always propose to play full random instead of default clan factions. I hope my opponenets will do the same
Please read my words with the remark that I am a HG specialist and not really know other maps.
Yes,I think this overwhelming bad image is mostly overreacted. Creeping in dungeon is easy if u SURVIVE first 3-5 days, when you need to face the enemy with 20+ assassins and 10-30 mana.
Creeping with dungeon is easy if u GET the right spell early. If u do not get firewall or decay, is not that easy. Like if no meteor shower, no break in HG.
In tote I can tell you that except dwarfs I can break on week 3 with any other faction. (with orcs it can be done with huge losses) Dungeon is one of the hardest.
For assassin tactics requirement: - at least 35 sp
- emerald slippers
- expert sorcery
- sufficien mana (250+)
- empowered spell
-perfect placement of assassins
So generelly I had the impression that in tote and with new skillwheel and new HG map all factions become stronger.
And its not dungeon which improved most.
In HG sylvan is almost unbeatable. New imbue arrow system, nature's luck perk itself and the easy and useful access to it (with mass haste, strom wind, elven luck, logs) arcane shooters, new unicorns all perfect improvements for sylvan. Dont forget that sylvan has the highest ratio of strong heroes (Anwen, Ossir, Ylthin, Wyngaal) Ylthin is maybe the strongest guy in all tote making unicorns mini dragons at level 20 (same attack and def stats)
I was in a sylvan clan and now I changed to dungeon so I can compare them. Sylvan is far more strong. No chance of kamikaze tactic against a good sylvan main hero.
So I would suggest rather "to ban sylvan than dungeon."
But I need to admit that creeping with dungeon at high level is boring.
To the subject of the post:
I believe that its better if there is no or very few rules, but dont forget that this is a game and not real life and its played by GENTLEMENS.
So I do not think its possible to give general rules for kamikaze actions.
(I did try a kamikaze attack in our game against sq with dungeon, but failed, since he was sylvan. I think this is allowed, cuz it was very low chance to succeed. But I dont think its honorable to make a kamikaze attack on necro, who can hardly resist this tactic since noone can reach assassins before casting.)
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