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| Thread: TOH fan letter to Ubi??? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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diegis
Supreme Hero
power of Zamolxis
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posted March 18, 2008 08:45 PM |
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...it seems modding a game is way too complicated...
...but who knows, may be will be the perfect choice...
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dacian falx behind you
-knowledge itself is power-
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vesuvius
Hero of Order
Honor Above all Else
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posted March 19, 2008 01:17 AM |
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I don't know about 200 modifications in this russian mod... but a few of the most disbalancing/cheating perks can be modified in a ToH mod.
Simple things...
Eg. the whole issue with the Stalker -- just reduce its initiative to 5, for example. A simple modification -- that is enough.
Eg. Divine Vengeance-- double the mana cost.
one code change is simplistic, and would make for a quick patch/mod.
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the_teacher
Supreme Hero
Talk to the hand!
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posted March 19, 2008 11:54 AM |
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about divine vengeance not sure if double mana will be the perfect solution since wiping out a whole stack for even 40 mana its pretty worthwhile. i'd like to see this spell INDEED dependent on the spellpower.
for example , imagine sylvan , which makes good knowledge, besides the intelligence which can be easily aquired, imbue arrow with DV and 3 enemies in favor list, casting somewhere later in the fight a rain of arrows. he will spend indeed lets say 120 mana, but would be deadly blow, nothing can save the other from a stupefying defeat.
we need an algorithm for this spell.
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted March 19, 2008 02:40 PM |
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Well... Rain of Arrows itself mixed with imbue is stupid enough using ANY spell! MOTW for acadamy being able to attack and rex 2 stack stacks at once, is already incredibly silly... and now Sylvan and already dominate town on its own... has ability to do damage to 3 stacks AND on top of that do additional spell damage or casting on those same 3 stacks all in the same turn? Was UBI EXTRA drunk the night they got to sylvan?
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the_teacher
Supreme Hero
Talk to the hand!
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posted March 19, 2008 03:03 PM |
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well its not that tragic, else sylvan will be 100% winner vs any race, which is not the case at all, i was pointed for that example only which is a bit... over the top. else, every race has its racial which is very helpful aswell:
orcs: 40 bloodangels hitting cyclops without killing at least 1 piece, cause of defense and the blood rage shield that absorbed 2.7k damage or
necro: servitute , motn like a perpetuum mobile, no losses
dungeon : spell/physical + 2.8k elemental damage, and negate almost entire work to achieve as much Mr as u can during an entire game
academy : motw, artifacts
inferno : almost double army, additional damage
dwarves : runes, some good , some better, none useless
and finally sylvan which, depends on luck/unluck can make full use of his racial, or not at all, like : no army for favourite list = no rain, no good spells even for imbue = wasted skills, rain is normal attack delay between actions is max and we can go on...
haven : different strategies for training, but serious resources involved, benediction and retal strike almost useless, appears like the town who benefits the less of all, luckily is strong enough the way it is, but i find it a bit boring.
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sq79
Famous Hero
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posted March 19, 2008 03:15 PM |
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If every race has ridiculous things ...
Maybe nothing needs to be changed after all 
If it can be changed once, then after some games, some players will talk about other imba things again and no end to mods 
Stalkers issue or dungeon too strong, it could be mapmakers taking pity on poor dungeon during hof days which give them so much spellpower for a more powerful hero. Now that there's so many perks like wizards reward, arcane excellence, graduate etc, maybe its time to remove some spell or knowledge boosters 
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fiur
Promising
Supreme Hero
Map Creator
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posted March 19, 2008 04:12 PM |
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Edited by fiur at 16:14, 19 Mar 2008.
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I promised Strider to give my opinion so here it is... :
Namely, IMO here are some of the major "points for improvement":
1. Fixing the stalkers "all the way strategy". It's just WAY BEYOND smart thinking to be able to clear whole map with lvl 1 units only. I've done that several times and did not find much pleasure in it -its so unbalanced. Again, it's heroes of MIGHT AND MAGIC, not magic + lvl 1 only...
fiur:
well Stalkers what can I say.... for those who have played Warlock in tote should be fully aware of their capabilities.... (ofc in combo with an great spellcaster)... What can we do... hmmm for sure several thing.... but do not lower theis init... (they are assassins type of creature an sure they need to be swift!!)
what we could to is to take away their invisibility and give them strike and return ability (like blood maiden/fury/sister)....
and also let them keep poision...
thats my thought......
2. Flaming arrows. HOF introduced this very interesting perk and then it was also hard to reach. Now, several races can obtain it in first lvl-ups and this ULTRA powerfull perk is accessible at no effort. I suppose, the prerequisites for it must be made more sophisticated... Again, with flaming arrows+exp ballista you can do insane map cleaning by simple moves (same like stalkers)
fiur:
hmmm this combo is for sure a challenge "breaker" when you get this perk (in combo with tripple ballista/exp. WM) no comment needed....
but then again.... I think this perks should stay only change your demands to get it.... like... :
you need tripple ballista and two other att. perks to get it (like it is for Demon Lords).... then you'll get your flaming arrows.
3. Swift mind. This one is also very cute perk from HOF. Yet again, prerequisites must be different for various races. I don't really think that it should be so easy accesible to massive magic damage factions. Besides, it really invites abuse of hit'n'run...
fiur:
well my opinion is like the one for flaming arrows
You sure can get swift mind... but then you must spend 2 other "Leadership" perks to get it......
To conclude, IMO these very fascinating perks must be HARDER to reach and must have different prerequisites for each faction.
I'd really like to know if we, as a TOH community, can reach a consensus what exactly and HOW it should be improved.
Your thoughts?
fiur:
Epilog:
I could add several more things that should/could been corrected but I will only mention one more thing and that is Mark of the Wizard..... if you know how to play Wizard I guess you know you can do amazing stuff.... not sure how to "tune" that ability but it needs to be.... (like they did with Mark of the Necromancer.... (is more useless now that before 3.0 IMO and thats good!)
at last I hope you are satisfied now Strider
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the_teacher
Supreme Hero
Talk to the hand!
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posted March 19, 2008 04:15 PM |
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Quote:
at last I hope you are satisfied now Strider
u dont know him at all
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted March 19, 2008 05:42 PM |
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If the stalkers' initiative is decreased won't their invisibility duration become longer? I don't know if the duration is three 12 init turns or three hero turns but in the first case it could be worse when having ignite even if more dangerous against shooters.
Unless there is a way to decrease invisibility to 2 turns but I doubt that would be 'fair'.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Strider_HL
Famous Hero
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posted March 19, 2008 10:13 PM |
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Quote:
If the stalkers' initiative is decreased won't their invisibility duration become longer?
No, it would remain exactly the same regardless of initiative.
Thx, guys, for your ideas. And especially Fiur for a very elaborate post Tomorrow I'll make an interim summary of all sugestions. Meanwhile, please, throw your ideas in
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okrane
Famous Hero
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posted March 19, 2008 11:29 PM |
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Do you people honestly think dungeon's power has improved much since the new stalkers.
I think in hof dungeon could have crept almost anything really fast anyway...
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Zilonite
Famous Hero
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posted March 20, 2008 12:19 PM |
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Quote:
Also, I'd like to encourage expressing your thoughts in a very constructive, comprehensive way answering these issues:
1. Would you use the ToH MOD for games here?
2. Suggest EXACT way how to improve imbalances described in posts above.
3. Bring up additional SIGNIFICANT balance improvements (we don't want to get too petty about minor problems).
1.Yes, although it depends on what features the mod will contain.
2.-3.Things that, imho, should be adressed in the mod (in order of priority):
 Divine Vengence spell - reduce the power of this monster-spell (whatever the reducing formula is)
Flaming Arrows - add pre-requisits (how the hell you spell this one?? ) (something like it is for demons now or may be even make it a bit more harder to get)
Stalkers - reduce duration of the invisibility by one turn, reduce initiative to 9.
As for me, that's it - ToH mod should be as mini-mod as mini it is possible
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted March 20, 2008 12:31 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 12:34, 20 Mar 2008.
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If the invisibility duration is to be decreased why lower their initiative too..? Too many shooter stacks - often split at 4 - will bleed away their population in earlygame and make battles more erratic.
If you have lower duration at least you should have a good chance to go invisible to exploit your spells better..
About flaming arrows it might be more fair to make expert bloodrage with the perks as prerequisites. The problem now is that they can get it too early. With that they need 4 levels in attack and 5 in racial not to mention the skills spend on warmachines. Or at least make memory of our blood and powerful blow required.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted March 20, 2008 12:38 PM |
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Well... if ever you guys decide on what to change and edit, I'll be on hand to make the mod if you like. Remember that mods can't edit most skill effects, only some values and prerequisites.
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"Those who forget their history are inevitably doomed to repeat it." —Proverb, Might and Magic VIII
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted March 20, 2008 12:49 PM |
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How about invisibility? Personally I wouldn't want it changed but is it possible?
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted March 20, 2008 12:51 PM |
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One can change the duration from 3 rounds to whatever else, and that's all.
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Strider_HL
Famous Hero
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posted March 20, 2008 01:34 PM |
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Quote:
Well... if ever you guys decide on what to change and edit, I'll be on hand to make the mod if you like.
Perfect, it seems we have found developer of the "TOH MOD" Thanks a lot, Cepheus
Also, if facing some particular difficulties in creation process, I can give you ICQ number for Moz - father of russian Tournament Edition Mod (very skilled and helpful guy).
Now, you brought up one vital ingredient for this project to work - reaching consensus I hope to sort out the most appropriate ideas in some 2 weeks. After that the TOH MOD Draft will be put to voting.
If it goes as planned, you could start your part around mid-May.
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted March 20, 2008 01:37 PM |
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Edited by Cepheus at 14:02, 20 Mar 2008.
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Making mods is really not that hard at all. Depending on the planned changes it shouldn't take longer than a day or two to implement them.
Only so much can be done: stats and resource costs can be tweaked, spell durations can be edited, skill prerequisites and starting skills etc. Nothing too major can be done though, we can't really edit specialties or building effects at all.
For example, here's a mod that nerfs Divine Vengeance:
http://rapidshare.com/files/100961724/Nerfed_Divine_Vengeance.h5u.html
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MysticPhoenix
Adventuring Hero
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posted March 20, 2008 02:34 PM |
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Can you tell us, in what way it is nerved?
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Kispagat
Famous Hero
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posted March 20, 2008 03:27 PM |
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At firts sight I think decreasing stalker's invisibility to 2 turns is the best solution I 've heard so far, cuz:
- little change
- do not destroy the creeping potential of dungeon, yet decrease it, so defeating 90 level 7 or another really advantegaous battles cant be done with them
Flaming ballista harder reach I can accept.
But to make swift mind harder to reach for magic orientated faction is not an option, cuz if heaven can reach switf mind and counterspell you sentenced dungeon and wizard to death.
So my suggestion is that if we make swift mind harder to reach for wizard and dungeon , lets make counterspell harder to reach for other factions too, to keep balance.
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