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SKPRIMUS
Promising
Supreme Hero
The One and the Prime
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posted September 30, 2009 02:26 AM |
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that is brilliant possibly include fear from your own side's units due to PM/frenzy maybe, teleport assault (no point even calculating)
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Hope defeats despair - "a blatant clue"
too many idiots in VW
"to lose is to win, and he who wins shall lose"
bashing orcus 
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radar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Castle/Haven player
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posted September 30, 2009 07:50 AM |
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It'd die with the first hit, I assume it's only one Blood Fury, right?
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DagothGares
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
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posted September 30, 2009 07:54 AM |
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I think the deployment space is too small for the enmy to deploy seven nightmares...
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If you have any more questions, go to Dagoth Cares.
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rottenvenetic
Known Hero
Derusticated
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posted September 30, 2009 08:19 PM |
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Hmm, he said castle battle, maybe that matters.
Anyway, nightmares can work (in fact I think nothing without fear attack can work, short of a bug), but only 5 stacks can be used.
Situation: A hero with an army of only Nightmares in 5 stacks, the Death March perk, expert Light, master of wrath, Haste spell and Teleport spell, rings of celerity and of speed, attacks a city.
Assume all nightmare stacks as well as the furies have 0 morale due to parity of conflicting perks or lack thereof.
His nightmares come with an initiative of 16*(1 + 0.4 (haste) + 0.3 (rings)) = 16 * 1.7 = 27.2 Initiative, well, can be less or more depending on game mechanics.
It can be taken higher than this, and even a minuscule initiative advantage is theoretically sufficient.
Nightmares will get 12 speed due to Death March.
Defending hero has aura of swiftness and boots of the windstrider, that means Furies with 16 Initiative and 10 Speed.
Now assume that the battle goes on, but no stack has been significantly damaged because all are too large. Attacking hero has teleported 1 stack of Nightmares into the castle and the gate is down.
At some point any unit will get to act twice between two actions of any unit with less initiative, and since all Nightmare stacks have the same initiative their attacks will come together. Thus, the Nightmares will at some point take 2 turns inside one turn for the Furies.
So: let's say the Furies somehow decide that it would be a good idea to attack the farthest Nightmare stack they can reach which is ten tiles away. That's 20 tiles.
After this, there are ten Nightmare actions. With one stack already in the castle, the gate down and a hero that can maybe cast Teleport again, it is possible that all ten Nightmare actions would result in the Furies being attacked.
If Fear Attack triggers, the Furies move 10 tiles, still in their same turn, and lose all their Initiative, likely enabling additional Nightmare actions as well as setting up the next attack.
Fear Attack must trigger a further 9 times before the Furies to achieve Ebbafan's goal of greater than 100, equality not being allowed.
It isn't that likely, though Soldier's Luck helps, and the Fury stack must be large enough to withstand this abuse and small enough to be unable to one-shot a Nightmare stack and also have a decent chance to trigger Fear Attack (if this is important). Also, the Nightmare player must avoid preventing the Furies to move the full 10 tiles.
There is a remote mathematical chance that the Furies can be forced to move 100+ tiles in more stringent conditions than this.
Edit: Radar: a single blood fury could never survive 100 tiles in one turn, since it can only move 20 tiles on its turn by itself, plus the 16 (well, 15.something, but count as 16) tiles that the battlefield's longest diagonal is equal to, with a Teleport spell. Or two, if the enemy hero can port them as well, I don't know that. This Fury could only withstand maybe one attack by a Nightmare, and that's a further 10. That is 52.
64 with Death March.
With an extra +2 speed from whatever source, beyond Windstrider boots and Aura of Swiftness, 70.
This kind of movement would of course reduce the needed Fear strikes a lot (by 55.56%, to 4), if many Furies are involved.
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Warmonger
Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
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posted September 30, 2009 09:22 PM |
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With Ring of Spedd, Ring of Celerity & Dragons Scale Shield the initiative of furies equals 21.6. Now, with perfect morale, it's effectively doubled so they are able to do four actions during a turn. With Death March and Windstrider Boots their range equals 13, so four time strike & return on appriopiately distant target gives 8x13 = 104 tiles in total.
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The future of Heroes 3 is here!
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ebbafan
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted October 01, 2009 04:33 AM |
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zenithale's answer is plausible, although radar brings up a good point concerning the health of the furies. one could make the argument that the furies have arcane armor, last stand, guardian angel, etc. but in all likelihood they will perish after a few hits.
actually as far as a fear attack is concerned, white bears would probably be a better choice due to less damage, rune of charge and lower trigger requirements.
to warmonger, i stated movement from the beginning of one turn to the beginning of the next, not multiple turns.
however, my answer actually does not involve fear inducing creatures although it does involve another creature's special.
assuming the blood fury is in a siege, its normal speed is 8, and with death march, windstrider boots, and aura of swiftness, its speed becomes 14, so a strike and return becomes 28 tiles at its farthest.
assuming the blood fury was in one diagonal corner of the battlefield, a teleport by the main hero to the diametrically opposed corner would be ~20 tiles(siege battlefield i think is 14 X 14, and the hypotenuse bisector of the map is sqrt(2) * 14 = ~20)
finally if the enemy has seven units of archdemons(all placeable on a castle battlefield) and the blood fury hero has six other archdemon units, this = 13 archdemon units that can pull the blood furies 5 squares each = 65.
so 28 + 20 + 65 = 113 which is >100
@rotten, i like the effort lol
but i think zenithale got the closest and should ask the next question if he has one!
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rottenvenetic
Known Hero
Derusticated
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posted October 01, 2009 12:00 PM |
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Make that 108
The battlefield is 12*10, the hypotenuse is cca. 15.8 tiles.
Edit: In a castle fight the attacking hero can deploy only 5 stacks of Archdemons (and Tactics to use Furies as well), since the field is 10 tiles wide, which means you can make it 103, but it still works  allowing that the defender can use the full 7 stacks. I don't remember that right now.
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Zenithale
Promising
Famous Hero
Zen Mind
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posted October 01, 2009 07:02 PM |
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You are playing Academy (green) versus computer, TotE version 3.1.
Your goal is to kill ALL red enemies before enemy hero turn.
Remaining green army:
6 Master gremlins, 2 shots, can repair, 6 HP (A,J)
1 Archmage with 10 mana, 4 shots, 3 HP (A,K)
4 Obsidian golems, 15 HP (A,A)
Hero level 5 (Razzack), with 10 mana, Power 6, all spells available but without mastery.
Remaining red army (computer):
1 Shadow witch with 0 mana, 2 shots, 32 HP (M,K)
4 Hydras with 13HP (EF,AB)
20 Stalkers with 10 HP (C,A)
6 Minotaur guards with 5 HP (D,C)
Notes:
HP = HP of the first creature of the stacks, of course.
Letters in the brackets are coordinates (X,Y)
You can assume there were as much creatures as you want when the battle had started.
In blue: obstacles (CD,D)
In yellow: firewall (damage 105) (E,CDE and H,G)
Turn order: gremlins / golems / Razzack / shadow witch / Stalkers / Minotaurs / Hydras / archmage
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TWITCH|YouTube | NewArenas2023 MOD
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted October 01, 2009 07:17 PM |
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What do the letters in the brackets mean?
And how many Magnetic Golems were there originally?
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What will happen now?
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Zenithale
Promising
Famous Hero
Zen Mind
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posted October 01, 2009 07:21 PM |
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rottenvenetic
Known Hero
Derusticated
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posted October 01, 2009 10:13 PM |
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Edit: never mind, computer won't suicide.
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Zenithale
Promising
Famous Hero
Zen Mind
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posted October 02, 2009 12:18 AM |
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rottenvenetic
Known Hero
Derusticated
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posted October 02, 2009 01:32 AM |
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Ok... any spell effects allowed on the creatures?
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted October 02, 2009 10:16 AM |
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Well key will probably be to move the Golems to (D,E) and attack Minotaurs (or (E,E), depending on what your movement is), to resurrect them through the firewall and watch happily how AI suicides itself by walking into the firewall to get to only available unit, and then use shooters (and Magi fireball) to take out Matriarch. But haven't checked the exact numbers to see what else would need to be done.
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What will happen now?
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Kispagat
Famous Hero
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posted October 02, 2009 11:37 AM |
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Edited by Kispagat at 11:38, 02 Oct 2009.
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The title of my solution is : Really unlucky Lethos
gremlins defend, golems defend, Razzak defend,
witch dies from magic mirrored decay casted by own hero Lethos sp 50 + emerald slippers + expert dark
stalker dies from magic mirrored decay casted by own hero Lethos sp 50 + emerald slippers + expert dark
minotaur dies from magic mirrored decay casted by own hero Lethos sp 50 + emerald slippers + expert dark
hydra dies from magic mirrored decay casted by own hero Lethos sp 50 + emerald slippers + expert dark
end of battle
But I think this would happen same way in 3.0 
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Zenithale
Promising
Famous Hero
Zen Mind
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posted October 02, 2009 01:30 PM |
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Golems don't have speed bonus (speed = 4 only).
Second help: you must cast a rarely used spell with Razzack... a spell who really disturbs AI!
@Kispagat: Magic mirror never works on Lethos speciality. 
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TWITCH|YouTube | NewArenas2023 MOD
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Kispagat
Famous Hero
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posted October 02, 2009 02:20 PM |
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Quote:
@Kispagat: Magic mirror never works on Lethos speciality.
Ye, I know, and not works against mass spells also, but in this special case Lethos casted decay one by one and that can be mirrored
Anyway, I let other present some serious solution, cuz I dont have a clue
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Zenithale
Promising
Famous Hero
Zen Mind
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posted October 02, 2009 04:50 PM |
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Last help (after this one I will give you the solution): use Duel mode AI vs AI (push on Auto-battle button, but don't forget to allow to cast spells in the game options), and watch some fights with several heroes. You can't miss THE spell and its effect on AI. 
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TWITCH|YouTube | NewArenas2023 MOD
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted October 02, 2009 06:28 PM |
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Quote:
Golems don't have speed bonus (speed = 4 only).
Well ... like I said, we need some information. Golems could have mini-arties to increase speed by 1 or 2, or he might have had March Of The Golems (for same result).
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What will happen now?
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Zenithale
Promising
Famous Hero
Zen Mind
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posted October 02, 2009 09:03 PM |
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Well I the answer is:
1) Move the gremlins in (E,G);
2) Do what you want with the golems (but don't move them in (D,B)!);
3) Razzack cast DEFLECT MISSILE on gremlins;
4) Shadow will shoot on gremlins (1 or 2 killed);
5) Stalker want attack gremlins too but they will just burn in the firewall;
6) Same with minotaurs;
7) Same with hydras;
8) Archmage cast Magic fist on shadow witch.
...yeah, AI is stupid enough to always attack a target with Deflect missiles spell on it (even with shot...) if it's possible, except a creature alone.
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TWITCH|YouTube | NewArenas2023 MOD
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