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| Thread: Stronghold - The Power of Rage. |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted September 03, 2008 02:37 PM |
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Edited by Lexxan at 14:38, 03 Sep 2008.
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so no shatter dark = omg owned bye bye?
Well, yes if you opponent (me) has the Tome of Dark Magic AND expert DarkMagic + Distract 
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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Asheera
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
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posted September 03, 2008 02:42 PM |
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Well taking Shatter skills so blindly (like against Academy) is not a good idea IMO
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nosfe
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 03, 2008 02:50 PM |
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Well taking Shatter skills so blindly (like against Academy) is not a good idea IMO
last i checked Academy players take spell schools based on what they get in the mage guild(or if they get tomes at the artifact merchant) so how can you as the opposing player know what shatters to take? aside from shatter dark as that's a must vs most everybody
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted September 03, 2008 03:54 PM |
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You can't guess with academy because of library. Now add the occasional utopia, pyramid or spellshop and you are clueless.
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SeLu87
Adventuring Hero
Grudgebearer
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posted September 03, 2008 04:11 PM |
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Edited by SeLu87 at 16:14, 03 Sep 2008.
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Dungeon & Necropolis players are always claiming that shattering abilities wins the battles before playing. Also the Goblins could transform their heroes in something absolutely useless.
Shattering abilities are ok, but I think they hadnīt realized yet, that against certains faction that their strategies are normally based in a specific kind of magic school, you cannot use your hero to do anything... Itīs much harder winning using Summoning instead of Dark if you are a necromancer.
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted September 03, 2008 05:25 PM |
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Edited by Lexxan at 17:53, 03 Sep 2008.
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Counters for Shatters? (Feedback Please)
Well, I sometimes even skip Magic totally, or go for rare, but rewarding combos.
Rangers can go for Dark Magic; Mass Vulnerabiliy + Imbue Arrow Spamming devastating. Luck is a must, Attack/defence advisable, War Machines (if you can get it) and Leadership work Greatly.
Maybe odd, but Light Magic for Demon Lords is also a nice choice. This is the magic school that wroks very well with Demons, and a schol that is so rare that the Barbarian probaby won't have Shatter Light. Leadership + Empathy/Sorcery can counter Shatter Dark, Enlightment to keep your mana high. Furthemore, Attack and War Machines, Maybe luck or Defence.
Academy has the advantage that it can take any magic school ,giving them an edge against stronghold (unless the Barbarian has the exact shatter skill(s) the Wizard has). Also, I'd prefer taking a full Magic Build, with Enlightement, Luck, Sorcery and two magic schools. (The chances are very slim that the Barbarian will have Shatter Skills for both Magic Schools)
Dungeon can go for full might (Attack, Leadership, Defence, Enlightment + Logistics => Swift Mind), maybe even Summoning of Dark with Certain Heroes (Lethos, Vayshan, Yrbeth) if Leadership is unavailable.
Haven can go for Dark or Full Might. Logistics + Familiar Ground can be rewarding, Leadership + Attack is good, Defence is great. Luck can be a great help if you don't have Light.
Fortess can do the same, Especialy with the Defence + Preparation Combo. Attack, Leadership and War Machines greatly help, Logistics (which is rare anyway) is negligable
Necropolis will have a hard time. It simply cannot survive without Dark and Summoning. The best thing IMO is to take Kaspar or Vladimir here, neglect Dark, go for Full Summoning. Nothing is greater to Disrupt the enmies initiaie with a Wasp Swarm or to blast them away with Fire Trap/Chrystal, so Aim for Swift Mind as well (Enlightement/Logistics). Defence is a must, Luck if you can get it helps greatly. I recommend Sorcery + Distract as well, especially versus Kargh.
Enough Chattering, Here are my recommended builds and Heroes
Haven: Klaus
Attack => Tactics - Battle Frenzy => Retribution
Defence => Vitality => Stand Your Ground => Preparation
Leadership => Recruitement => Divine Guidance => Empathy
Luck => Soldier's Luck => Dead Man's Curse - Resoucerfullness
Logistics => Pathfinding => Familiar Ground, Warpath
Inferno: Grok
Logistics => Pathfinding + Swift Gating => Teleport Assault
Attack: Battle Frenzy + Excruciating Strike => Flaming Arrows
War Machines: Ballista => Tripple Ballista - First Aid
Leadership: Diplomacy => Empathy, Gate Master
Luck: Soldier's Luck => Swarming Gate, Dead Man's Luck
Sylvan: Vinrael
Enlightement: Intelligence => Wizard's Reward - Arcane Intuition
Logistics: Scouting => Swift Mind
Luck: Soldier's luck + Resoucrefullness => Elven Luck
Dark Magic: Master of Pain => Corrupted soil
War Machines: Ballista => Imbue Battlista, Tripple Ballista
Necropolis: Kaspar
War Machines: First aid => Plague Tent - Ballista
Defence: Vitality => Power of Endurance - Evasion
Enlightement: Arcane intuition - Intelligence => Graduate
Logistics: Scouting => Swift Mind
Summoning Magic: Master of Life - Master of Earthblood - Master of Conjuration
Academy: Havez
War Machines: Ballista => Tripple Ballista - First Aid
Attack: Archery => Flaming Arrows - Cold Steel
Destructive Magic: Master of Ice => Cold Death
Enlightment: Intelligence - Sholar - Arcane Intuition
Logistics: Scouting - Swift Mind
Dungeon: Kythra
Leadership: Estates - Diplomacy => Empathy
Enlightement: Scholar => Arcane Exaltation - Intelligence
Attack: Battle Frenzy => Power of Speed - Tactics
Defence: Vitality => Power of Endurance - Evasion
Logistics: Pathfinding => Teleport Assault - War path
Fortress: Ingvar
Defence: Vitality => Defencive Formation => Preparation
Attack: Tactics => Offensive Formation => Retribution
Leadership: Diplomacy => Empathy - Runice Attunement
Enlightement: Scholar => Arcane Exaltation - Arcane Intuition
Logistics: Pathfinding => Teleport Assault
This is what I would do versus a Barbarian. Any Comments? (good or bad, doesn't matter, I'm eager to learn  )
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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nosfe
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 03, 2008 05:44 PM |
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Edited by nosfe at 17:47, 03 Sep 2008.
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i dunno, sounds bad, i really don't think that trying to fight might with might is a good way to go against stronghold. Just because stronghold has shatters doesn't mean that you can't use the spells from that magic school. there's a good reason why stronghold gets shatter dark and those that fight against stronghold still chose dark magic. Summoning is good against stronghold if you get blade barrier just watch out for garuna, she gets +attack even for killing summons
as for your suggestions, why the heck get swift mind with ingvar if you don't give him spells?
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted September 03, 2008 05:53 PM |
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Shatters can sompletely disrupt you magic System, so I try to go might wherever that's possible. I know that Magic can work fine as well (especially Academy), but it's not a guarantee it will. To be Honest, there are pure anti-Stronghold Builds and I would use them if I had Stronghold Opponents..
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as for your suggestions, why the heck get swift mind with ingvar if you don't give him spells?
Lol. Come to think of it, It's indeed kinda ridiculous... I'll alter that to Teleport Assault, that's very malicious when Used with Magma Dragons...
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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Zenithale
Promising
Famous Hero
Zen Mind
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posted September 03, 2008 05:57 PM |
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Quote:
I recommend Sorcery + Distract as well, especially versus Kargh.
I think Distract doesn't work against attacks, only versus spells.
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted September 03, 2008 06:03 PM |
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<*Bangs head against the wall*>
I completelty misinterpreted Distract. I though it read "The Emeny Hero get's a 15% penalty to his ATB value when you're casting a spell.." Unfortunately there is not you're in the description 
Well, as Mythical Said, it's sometimes better for Kargh (and others as well) to cast Fear My Roar or Horde'ss Anger instead, so Distract still is fine, but not as good as I thought
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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nosfe
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 03, 2008 06:05 PM |
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the problem with might only is that you lose out on stats, the warlock gets knowledge/spellpower 60% of the time, runemages get 50% and the demon lord gets 45%; imo thats too many wasted points, i just can't justify not taking magic schools with these factions.
Destruction for academy isn't very effective due to lowish sp which is even more apparent against stronghold because of rage; while you could argue that its for the freezing effect i find that dark is better but thats only if you get good dark spells(frenzy/PM/blind>freezing); thats the thing with academy, its very very random, it totally depends on what spells you get, thats why they're so difficult to counter because even the academy player won't know beforehand what magic schools he'll take
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted September 03, 2008 06:37 PM |
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Quote:
Dungeon can go for full might (Attack, Leadership, Defence, Enlightment + Logistics => Swift Mind)
Won't work.
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Fortess can do the same, Especialy with the Defence + Preparation Combo. Attack, Leadership and War Machines greatly help, Logistics (which is rare anyway) is negligable
I wish runemages too warmachines, I'd have one less skill to worry about. Besides who cares, runes + light/des/dark are great anyway.
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Necropolis will have a hard time. It simply cannot survive without Dark and Summoning. The best thing IMO is to take Kaspar or Vladimir here, neglect Dark, go for Full Summoning. Nothing is greater to Disrupt the enmies initiaie with a Wasp Swarm or to blast them away with Fire Trap/Chrystal, so Aim for Swift Mind as well (Enlightement/Logistics). Defence is a must, Luck if you can get it helps greatly.
Defense is not a must and even if orcs have both shatters it doesn't matter, you can still win. It will be merely balanced In any case shatters are 5% and thus no guarantee.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted September 03, 2008 06:50 PM |
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I never had problems with dungeon vs stronghold tbh  Summoning + dark is the way to go, lethos aka rage eater with frenzy or phoenix, mass confusion (even if weakened by shatter, -70% dam of centaurs and retaliating units is still good) = fun and those dark raiders DO pack a punch. Destructive is problematic because if orcs pick shatter destr, detain destructive, the skill that cuts SP and might over magic, your effective SP will be rather pathetic and the only use for destructive will be fire spells to reduce def..
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adon
Known Hero
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posted September 03, 2008 11:54 PM |
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WHen playing stronghold, if my opponent is dungeon, I'm taking shatter destruction if offered!
If my opponent is demon, necro, haven or academy, I'm taking shatter dark.
Against sylvan (battle over too quickly to make spells matter that much apart from the RARE imbue ballista), dwarves I wouldn't take a shatter either.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted September 04, 2008 10:54 AM |
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Shatter light for stormwind is a good idea against sylvan.
From what I read, shatter dark is good for against any faction, you never know what they were offered.
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted September 25, 2008 12:24 PM |
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Edited by Mytical at 12:26, 25 Sep 2008.
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Indeed. Unless I know they can't (ie other stronghold) I will always get shatter dark. Even if it is a wasted 6 points. Too dangerous not to. The other spell schools just are not as much of a threat. Even empowered destructive from Warlocks is not as dangerous.
Against sylvan, shatter light wouldn't be that bad. It is harder for them to get dark
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Message received.
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Kispagat
Famous Hero
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posted September 25, 2008 03:45 PM |
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Quote:
Indeed. Unless I know they can't (ie other stronghold) I will always get shatter dark. Even if it is a wasted 6 points. Too dangerous not to. The other spell schools just are not as much of a threat. Even empowered destructive from Warlocks is not as dangerous.
Against sylvan, shatter light wouldn't be that bad. It is harder for them to get dark
I agree, shatter dark is a must for orc. Thats why I find barbarians a little bit boring. Since 99% of the games you play with wm, attack, logs, and shatter dark and one last remaining skill you can think abt.
Lowest chance to get a skill is 2%. So if they final battle takes place when the main heroes are around lvl 25, this 2% is can be enough to get dark. And a puppet on cyclops and good bye. So I do not dare to play without shatter.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted September 25, 2008 03:56 PM |
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Heck, even frenzy with mass slow are killers.. You are not afraid of just puppet.
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Kispagat
Famous Hero
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posted September 25, 2008 04:11 PM |
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Quote:
Heck, even frenzy with mass slow are killers.. You are not afraid of just puppet.
Normally I "choose" dwarfen arties to be immune for those, so I must disagree .
Yep, and also mass confusion really hurts.
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted March 23, 2009 08:02 AM |
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Not all maps have dwarven arties, nor is it guaranteed you will get them all if the map has them. So better to be safe then sorry .
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Message received.
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