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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted July 02, 2008 07:36 AM |
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Yep the only ones that stronghold would have problems with are the Ghosts (with no magic they can be a real pain!)
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Message received.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted July 02, 2008 09:20 AM |
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Quote:
 How is Inferno and Necropolis hard to play? Inferno and Necropolis are the ONLY factions I can beat heroic AI on small scenario maps. Academy and Dungeon are really hard and confusing  Well I guess it�s a matter of taste.
I'll try to explain:
1. nobody plays heroic
2. nobody plays/cares for AI in this thread or anywhere balance is concerned
3. Dungeon is one of the easiest to play, just abuse destructive and dominate all the noobs who can't think of a proper counter
4. Academy is one of - if not THE - most powerful factions in this game and it shines in both earlygame and endgame
5. It is _not_ a matter of taste. One can have a better or worse matchup, but to say certain factions are overpowered/weak when they in reality are not is not a matter of opinion, it's a biased opinion, and a wrong one.
Hope that clears things out, cheers. 
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted July 02, 2008 10:14 AM |
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Thumbs up Doomforge, that sums it up nicely  Besides just look at the quote, it basically says that he does not know well the other factions.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Zwok
Adventuring Hero
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posted July 02, 2008 11:53 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
How is Inferno and Necropolis hard to play? Inferno and Necropolis are the ONLY factions I can beat heroic AI on small scenario maps. Academy and Dungeon are really hard and confusing Well I guess it�s a matter of taste.
I'll try to explain:
1. nobody plays heroic
2. nobody plays/cares for AI in this thread or anywhere balance is concerned
3. Dungeon is one of the easiest to play, just abuse destructive and dominate all the noobs who can't think of a proper counter
4. Academy is one of - if not THE - most powerful factions in this game and it shines in both earlygame and endgame
5. It is _not_ a matter of taste. One can have a better or worse matchup, but to say certain factions are overpowered/weak when they in reality are not is not a matter of opinion, it's a biased opinion, and a wrong one.
Hope that clears things out, cheers.
And what makes you think your opinions are not biased? If you like talking about 'The Reality' so much you would do a mathematical analysis of every faction and compare the results. But it wouldnt prove anything because its completely random what you would face in a real game. Homm5 has really poor multiplayer support and most people play it single player so dont say nobody cares for AI.
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted July 02, 2008 12:12 PM |
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And mathmatical analysis would not be able to factor in the human element. It is a fact that AI and Humans react very different in a given situation. That is why AI needs to 'cheat' to compete (reduced cost buildings and creatures, bonus creatures, and such). On Hard they get slight cheats, but in heroic they get many more. People can beat heroic and still have a lot of trouble against human players.
Tactical Games don't always go as the numbers suggest they do. It's not always about which unit/hero is the strongest. Skill choices, luck, and other random things often sway the battle one way or another. Especially in HoMM 5, HOF, and ToTE.
I've seen AI Haven have Summons (I don't even want to know what choices it was offered) (it summoned a phoenix at least, and cast Arcane Shield). Logical? Nope and it was a much too easy fight.
Testing and theorycrafting can be useful. Once you have a theory, however, please try it against human players. There are plenty who are always looking for opponits. If it works, great, you found something out. If not, that's ok, you found something out. Just please realize that AI is NOT a human. Put 'for battles against AI's' in the title of the thread if it has not been tested against humans.
Now don't let anybody get you down or get upset because people don't agree. They might have tested it vs humans and found it has a much higher failure rate then success rate. Heck, I'd be willing to let you test your theory on me. I am not a great player, but at least if it works vs me you know it has potential.
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Message received.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted July 02, 2008 12:31 PM |
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@Zwok
Doomforge has been playing lan games for a long time and has a pretty good idea of what works or how things happen. There's nothing mathematical about it, it's experience. And poor support or not I've played about 100 online games and all I have to say is that single sucks badly. It cannot even come close to net games.
Besides there is no challenge, the AI will lose no matter what.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Zwok
Adventuring Hero
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posted July 02, 2008 12:41 PM |
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Quote:
And mathmatical analysis would not be able to factor in the human element. It is a fact that AI and Humans react very different in a given situation. That is why AI needs to 'cheat' to compete (reduced cost buildings and creatures, bonus creatures, and such). On Hard they get slight cheats, but in heroic they get many more. People can beat heroic and still have a lot of trouble against human players.
Tactical Games don't always go as the numbers suggest they do. It's not always about which unit/hero is the strongest. Skill choices, luck, and other random things often sway the battle one way or another. Especially in HoMM 5, HOF, and ToTE.
I've seen AI Haven have Summons (I don't even want to know what choices it was offered) (it summoned a phoenix at least, and cast Arcane Shield). Logical? Nope and it was a much too easy fight.
Testing and theorycrafting can be useful. Once you have a theory, however, please try it against human players. There are plenty who are always looking for opponits. If it works, great, you found something out. If not, that's ok, you found something out. Just please realize that AI is NOT a human. Put 'for battles against AI's' in the title of the thread if it has not been tested against humans.
Now don't let anybody get you down or get upset because people don't agree. They might have tested it vs humans and found it has a much higher failure rate then success rate. Heck, I'd be willing to let you test your theory on me. I am not a great player, but at least if it works vs me you know it has potential.
I play on Ubisoft every day, I'm not sure why you play with mods and in LAN games. I would gladly play with any of you multiplayer, just seems your never online.
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted July 02, 2008 12:45 PM |
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Edited by Mytical at 12:45, 02 Jul 2008.
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That is because we generally use Hamachi. It is a little more reliable. Unfortunately I work so much that I generally only am able to play on wed/thur Eastern Standard Time. I also have to set up matches in advance (for instance next Wed or thursday I would love to have a match). I have a set appointment with Phoenixreborn on Wed, so it would have to be evenings on Wed but thursday anytime.
My username on Hamachi is the same as here. Mytical.
I do not use mods in Lan Games.
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Message received.
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Kispagat
Famous Hero
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posted July 02, 2008 12:47 PM |
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Inferno is very strong on maps when final battle usually happen after week 4. This is a usual time frame where magic factions become weaker and weaker by each week against might factions. Its easy to understand why, armies growing more than the pain what magic can cause.
This fact is very important in multiplayer games. This will determine the basic tactic of the players. This makes dungeon and necro rush like hell. With might factions you need to drag the game if u can.
Naturally each faction has it own speciality to make the game very interesting, and very rarely above rule can be ruined also.
I had a game on HG against Elit when he was necro I was dwarf. He took all the map, he had enourmous army, still he lost it in week 6 battle.
I had a game against Strider on rr, when I decided not to attack his sylvan army on week 3, rather improve my stats and had final battle on week 4, what I lost.
But please dont forget that this is a very complex game, and a lot of things decides the outcome of the final battle, like:
(Not importance order)
1. Size of the army
2. skills of the heroes
3. stats of the heroes/creatures
4. initiative
5. morale
6. luck
7. mana/spells
8. Fighting the fight itself
1. Size of the army: it shows how much you know the map, how good are you in economics, and creeping.
2. skills of the heroes: it shows how you know your strenght and weaknesses in this special matchup against the opponent
I would say that from a certain level (lets say lord) size of the army will be close to the maximum, I mean players will not loose too much creatures by mistake. Therefore the rest will decide.
This is the reason why this kind of threads can not lead anywhere, since so much things decide if u win a battle or not, faction itself not.
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted July 02, 2008 12:49 PM |
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Edited by samiekl at 12:51, 02 Jul 2008.
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Noob, what are you doing here???
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Kispagat
Famous Hero
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posted July 02, 2008 12:51 PM |
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Quote:
Dude, what are you doing here???
I've learned some good tricks from the quiz, so sometimes I have a look at the scientific part of the game
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Zwok
Adventuring Hero
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posted July 02, 2008 12:52 PM |
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Edited by Zwok at 12:55, 02 Jul 2008.
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Quote:
This is the reason why this kind of threads can not lead anywhere, since so much things decide if u win a battle or not, faction itself not.
 If that would be true everybody would pick random hero, random town, random resource. But that never happens. (Unless both people agree to that)
#Edit: I might be new to Homm5, In fact I bought this game like 2 weeks ago? Not sure but whatever. Although I'm very familiar to strategy and tactical games. In my experience with these games there’s always an imbalance that more experienced players will use and call it a strategy. It is sad and will never be admitted. Yes I do understand allot depends on player skills, but if that would be the only variable it wouldn’t be HoMM and there simply would be just one faction with one hero.
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted July 02, 2008 12:54 PM |
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Don't bother explaining, there are many people here that think of themselves: "Wow, i've done that, i'm so snowing good at this game", but thy barely play it 
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Kispagat
Famous Hero
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posted July 02, 2008 12:55 PM |
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If that would be true everybody would pick random hero, random town, random resource. But that never happens. (Unless both people agree to that)
You are right on ubi, but not in toh. Most of players in toh play random faction random hero. And I know only one guy from lord level (Infinitus) who picks his hero, rest go random.
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted July 02, 2008 12:58 PM |
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Quote:
If that would be true everybody would pick random hero, random town, random resource. But that never happens. (Unless both people agree to that)
The reason they usually don't is because they learn and have their favorites. I've always contested that to be a master player, you should be able to play any faction on any map. I know my skill with Stronghold is light years ahead of my skill with any other faction. Because I like the town, and play it more often.
Oh and if you would like, HCM me a time/date (wed/thur next week) right now it is 7am where I am. I will even create an Ubisoft account to have a match against you. New challenges are fun. (please late wednesday, as I have a match with Phoenixreborn every week early wednesday).
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Message received.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted July 02, 2008 01:02 PM |
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Quote:
In my experience with these games there’s always an imbalance that more experienced players will use and call it a strategy. It is sad and will never be admitted.
Hey samiekl even he knows you are a dishonorable stalker abuser 
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Kispagat
Famous Hero
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posted July 02, 2008 01:06 PM |
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#Edit: I might be new to Homm5, In fact I bought this game like 2 weeks ago? Not sure but whatever. Although I'm very familiar to strategy and tactical games. In my experience with these games there’s always an imbalance that more experienced players will use and call it a strategy. It is sad and will never be admitted. Yes I do understand allot depends on player skills, but if that would be the only variable it wouldn’t be HoMM and there simply would be just one faction with one hero.
I understand now. That happened to me also. When I started to play with h5, first I say omg how good is haven, much better than in h3. Then inferno campaign I played, and said, omg, this gaiting is cool, forget haven and it went on like this....
But when I started multiplayer its another world. I would suggest you to forget AI, try yourself on ubi or in toh against humans in multiplayer maps, its another kindda knowledge.
I played almost exclusively sylvan at first times, and then tried to learn the rest. Now I can play any faction relatively good, but still far from expert. So you can go on and play inferno if u like in multiplayer map, and you will really suffer early game. And you will understand that this is the price you need to pay to become strong later. (if u are still alive)
Btw in toe sylvan is the only faction which is stronger than the others but this is another topic
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted July 02, 2008 01:17 PM |
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Kispagat is ranked Emporer in ToH, just for new players information. Means he has played sever hundred (if not more) games online vs other players. I would recommend listening to any advice he gives.
Hehe, I have went through the..omg this one has to be the best, no this one, no ... also. The only faction I can play very good at all is Stronghold tho (and somewhat sylvan). I understand the concept behind them, but just can not seem to actually successfully implement them. That and I tend to be very unlucky hehe.
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Message received.
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted July 02, 2008 01:17 PM |
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Quote:
Hey samiekl even he knows you are a dishonorable stalker abuser
 I admit it. If it weren't for those stalkers, i would never play. I like cheating more than playing 
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Zwok
Adventuring Hero
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posted July 02, 2008 01:49 PM |
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Edited by Zwok at 13:50, 02 Jul 2008.
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Quote:
I understand now. That happened to me also. When I started to play with h5, first I say omg how good is haven, much better than in h3. Then inferno campaign I played, and said, omg, this gaiting is cool, forget haven and it went on like this....
But when I started multiplayer its another world. I would suggest you to forget AI, try yourself on ubi or in toh against humans in multiplayer maps, its another kindda knowledge.
I played almost exclusively sylvan at first times, and then tried to learn the rest. Now I can play any faction relatively good, but still far from expert. So you can go on and play inferno if u like in multiplayer map, and you will really suffer early game. And you will understand that this is the price you need to pay to become strong later. (if u are still alive)
Btw in toe sylvan is the only faction which is stronger than the others but this is another topic
Excuse me, I'm not putting in doubt your skill but perhaps you didn't read any of this thread. First of all I'm not planning to play Inferno, as I mentioned I like Stronghold and will continue with Stronghold.
You suggest me to play on Ubisoft against humans, but I have been playing on Ubi since the day I bought my game. No I do not win all the time, In fact I'm horrible at duels. But when playing on a map like Grab and Run or Former Friends I usually win or at least almost win. Even though I spent more time practicing with Stronghold and I enjoy playing with Stronghold more, I don't see any way to compare to other players if I don't choose my faction as Necropolis or Inferno. That's one of the main reasons I made this thread, also when playing Stronghold vs. Stronghold or Stronghold vs. Sylvan or Haven its allot easier for me then Stronghold vs. Inferno. Actually the latter is near impossible for me. (When I say that playing with Inferno is easier I don't mean playing with Deleb is easier, all the Inferno heroes seem to have a huge advantage compared to others). Then again since the day this thread was made nobody really gave me any tips on how to counter Inferno, just talk about Inferno is so underpowered.
Quote:
Kispagat is ranked Emporer in ToH, just for new players information. Means he has played sever hundred (if not more) games online vs other players. I would recommend listening to any advice he gives.
Hehe, I have went through the..omg this one has to be the best, no this one, no ... also. The only faction I can play very good at all is Stronghold tho (and somewhat sylvan). I understand the concept behind them, but just can not seem to actually successfully implement them. That and I tend to be very unlucky hehe.
I’m trying to but there’s no real advice, he’s just saying that Inferno is better late game, however if I don’t rush with inferno I will get crushed. He also says that a lot depends on your army size and which skills you choose, this sounds absurd to me because the skills you can get are random. No matter how skilled you are you can’t remove a sprite guarding a precious ore mine, too many depends on your luck.
Quote:
The reason they usually don't is because they learn and have their favorites. I've always contested that to be a master player, you should be able to play any faction on any map. I know my skill with Stronghold is light years ahead of my skill with any other faction. Because I like the town, and play it more often.
Oh and if you would like, HCM me a time/date (wed/thur next week) right now it is 7am where I am. I will even create an Ubisoft account to have a match against you. New challenges are fun. (please late wednesday, as I have a match with Phoenixreborn every week early wednesday).
What is HCM? It’s Wednesday 15:45 here, so I’m not sure what time you could play.
P.S. What exactly is ToH and why does everybody on these forums play through Hamachi?
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This thread is pages long: 
