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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted February 21, 2010 11:31 AM |
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Edited by Mytical at 11:37, 21 Feb 2010.
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Yes my phrasing was off a bit. If you are married, do not mention it, and get married AGAIN it is illegal. Of course even if they know about it, it is illegal BUT they also can pursue other charges if they do not know about it.
So yes there ARE laws about OMISSIONS. Go figure. Just like con artists, companies that forget to mention that the gas pedal might stick..or that there is lead in the toys..or .. *shrugs* I am done with this conversation. It is obvious I won't change your mind, so no need to hit my head on a wall again. I will continue to discuss with the others. I bid you good day.
Oh and Jolly I do wish you would not put words in my mouth or assume things so much. Please? Yes Slavery was wrong even when their were laws protecting it. That is all I said about something being right despite what the law said. I just said one should never assume that just because a law says it is right, doesn't automatically make it right..or that if the law says it wrong doesn't automatically make it wrong. And that there have been bad laws in the past.
But..that doesn't seem to matter..*shrugs*
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Message received.
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william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted February 21, 2010 11:33 AM |
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Awesome conversation that goes way off topic. 
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~Ticking away the moments that
make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
way~
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted February 21, 2010 11:39 AM |
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Yes, I realise this and appologize, that is why I am ending the conversation..or part of the reason.
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Message received.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted February 21, 2010 11:45 AM |
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JJ you cost me a thousand brain cells this morning. I want them back.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted February 21, 2010 12:33 PM |
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Quote:
@ Doomforge
I think this answers your post as well. They have a reason why they say, in love everything is allowed. You don't give the person you date a novel with everything you did or do? If you are a 20-year-old girl who starts dating a boy, would you tell him right away, you've lost count of the boyfriends you had, but slept with at least 10? That you took part in a porn movie two years ago, since you needed the money and was on some drug, but that you are clean now and just passed an aids test, so everything is fine?
Thing is, those things almost never remain a secret. The pop out sooner or later, because somebody tells you, or because you read an old e-mail or something, even unintentionally.
And we all know what happens next.
It's like dating a straight guy as a shemale. Do you think it's fair that the guy "discovers" it after he has already fallen in love? Was this worth keeping as secret since it will lead to a collapse anyway? You're only buying time when lying, nothing more.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 21, 2010 12:48 PM |
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I'm pretty fed up with, your way to discuss, Mytical. Byd, style, bad logic, bad everything. I mean:
Quote:
So yes there ARE laws about OMISSIONS.
OF COURSE THERE ARE. That way my point, remember? There ARE laws, however, omitting you date a second boy IS NOT COVERED. YOU are the one claiming, justr because something is legal it doesn't have to be right, which is the only point of yours that matters here, because omitting it IS legal.
So this leaves legal doesn't make it right versus legal is for everyone while right is a pretty subjective thing and if something IS legeal, but not right for YOU, it's YOU who should take care.
Very easy example: Going into marriage as a virgin. This is perfectly legal, at least in the countrie we talk about. There they are, two people not having sex with each other before marriage. They marry, and there it becomes clear: no virginity. WHo's to blame. The woman didn't mention it - but the man DIDN'T ASK. Since it was important to him, he should have asked, though.
This seems pretty easy to understand.
Practically, now, I suppose a woman would voluntarily make sure it's ok, because she wouldn't want to be in that awkward situation - but, seem that depends on the INTERESTS of the participating people, which may be quite different, so assuming a convergence of interests is, let's say dangerous.
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Now, the trouble here is, that the US are a country that has a slightly different view on jurisdictional things than Europe. In the US, if something goes down that someone doesn't like, enough people have an interest to try and fix someone with the blame. Should someone else have had done something different. Is everyone else at fault. It's like, should there have to be a warning on a Snickers bar that eating a lot of them may lead to becoming overweight, become a sugar addict and get skin problems and so on - or can we expect that people are a bit more careful about what they feed themselves with?
So the US stance IN GENERAL is, then, that if something is OFFERED, all possible negative consequences should be mentioned beforehand, and if they were not you may claim foul play and compemnsation. Like, if you offer a beggar a tenner, and the beggar gets hit on the head by another beggar and the tenner stolen, the offerer would have had to warn the beggar, if you take this, someone might become envious and hit you on the head, so be careful whether you really want the money, because, since the beggar didn't ever have any money he had no way of knowing what might happen if he suddenly had some.
This is slightly different in Europs, where people assume that IF people really are interested in personal things they should care about them themselves.
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Be that as it may, I'm in general careful when it comes to fixing the blame to someone. In general, there are TWO necessary to make something work for a long time, and I would just like to know whether theres was talk about it or not and whether the "offended" side shares part of the blame or not.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 21, 2010 12:54 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
@ Doomforge
I think this answers your post as well. They have a reason why they say, in love everything is allowed. You don't give the person you date a novel with everything you did or do? If you are a 20-year-old girl who starts dating a boy, would you tell him right away, you've lost count of the boyfriends you had, but slept with at least 10? That you took part in a porn movie two years ago, since you needed the money and was on some drug, but that you are clean now and just passed an aids test, so everything is fine?
Thing is, those things almost never remain a secret. The pop out sooner or later, because somebody tells you, or because you read an old e-mail or something, even unintentionally.
And we all know what happens next.
It's like dating a straight guy as a shemale. Do you think it's fair that the guy "discovers" it after he has already fallen in love? Was this worth keeping as secret since it will lead to a collapse anyway? You're only buying time when lying, nothing more.
The shemale might be in love and might imagine that if it will come to the point of sharing intimacies the guy will love her so much he may just be willing to try and see what happens.
As I said, it's a matter of interests.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted February 21, 2010 12:59 PM |
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But, do you think it's fair?
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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DagothGares
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
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posted February 21, 2010 01:15 PM |
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Quote:
But, do you think it's fair?
Wait, wait, life is fair? Huh?
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If you have any more questions, go to Dagoth Cares.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted February 21, 2010 01:30 PM |
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It's not, so you can go killing and raping people. You're oh-so-justified 
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 21, 2010 01:30 PM |
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FAIR? Who cares? What is really "fair"? If someone falls in love into a well made-up girl, push-up, facepaint, the whole broadside, and later discovers that the reality behind it looks different, is THAT fair? After all, the guy fell in love immediately after seeing that piece of art, that's not fair, isn't it?
I don't think you are obliged to give "making it easy for others" first place on your priority list.
There's that story going round about Iggy Pop whom a pretty convincing transvestite made a pass upon after some concert; so when they come to the hotel door, the transvestite says, umm, James, I have to tell you something, you know, I'm not exactly a girl. And Iggy is rumored to have looked rather perplexed, you know, this, weel who'd have guessed, and after a moment's hesitation to have said, well, what the hell, we've come this far, and a hole is a hole.
Of course this is just one of the stories that go round for people like Iggy Pop, and it may have been made up. Still.
Stranger things may happen, and to come to the point - after being together for some time, MM MIGHT HAVE ACCEPTED IT (and the other guy as well), continuing in some way. From the point of view of the girl - if there's never been talk about that -, it just MIGHT have been what she wanted and it just MIGHT HAVE come true.
Same thing for the shemale. It just MIGHT work, and your chances are OF COURSE better, if you each other and so on and so forth, instead of advertising it right away.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted February 21, 2010 01:41 PM |
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In other words, you think it's ok not to care for someone's feelings and pursuit your happiness only, right?
MM's ex girlfriend tried to pursuit happiness by getting two parallel boyfriends, but even when asked, she couldn't manage to admit it (called MM "a good friend" not "a boyfriend"). Isn't that a lie?
So you think her lies were justified because of a chance that both MM and that other guy would accept the situation or simply never get to know about it?
That's really extreme, JJ.
From what I understand, you're telling us not to condemn the girl.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 21, 2010 02:01 PM |
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Quote:
In other words, you think it's ok not to care for someone's feelings and pursuit your happiness only, right?
I didn't say that, did I? I just said that making it easy for others doesn't have to be first on the list of priorities.
I mean, you are known to prefer them YOUNG. Now say and older girl knows it, but she LOOKS young, and you make a pass on her, not knowing her real age. Would you expect from her to say, umm, I'm much older than I look, in case she found you quite attractive? In fact, wouldn't you understand it, if she ket quiet AS LONG YOU DIDN'T ASK HER AGE, hoping that things would work out, then, later on, you might be so much in love with each other, so that her age simply wouldn't matter?
Of course she might be wrong - but would she be so wrong to have tried it? After all, it was over, if you asked her, so as long as you don't...
Quote:
MM's ex girlfriend tried to pursuit happiness by getting two parallel boyfriends, but even when asked, she couldn't manage to admit it (called MM "a good friend" not "a boyfriend"). Isn't that a lie?
Yes, I agree, but that's hearsay - it's the other guy who said she said. If that's true, it might mean that she tried to sneak her way out of it.
But think about the situation - the other guy "went through her phone" - either he did something you don't do as well or he had a suspicion and try to find some evidemce. MM doesn't seem to have neither looked through her phone nor suspected anything which is interesting.
In any case, because of that, if confronted by MM, it doesn't necessarily mean she'd ve lied to him, too. Moreover, she seems to have been together longer with MM, then date this other guy - might be interesting to hear her version of it - eye to single eye - instead of confronting her as a team.
Quote:
So you think her lies were justified because of a chance that both MM and that other guy would accept the situation or simply never get to know about it?
That's really extreme, JJ.
From what I understand, you're telling us not to condemn the girl.
I don't think an outright lie would be justified - however, before I'd start throwing stones or condemn the girl I'd simply hear her out. Alone.
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted February 21, 2010 02:02 PM |
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...love is dropping the subject out of consideration for MMs feelings? I think it's been butchered long and wide now, no?
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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ohforfsake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted February 21, 2010 02:05 PM |
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Quote:
In other words, you think it's ok not to care for someone's feelings and pursuit your happiness only, right?
If I may say something. I think it's entirely up to the person how to define love. So if said person want it to be all about you, that's completely that persons decision, nothing wrong in it, so to say. You're free to make that choice.
However, if such a choice is made, it is likely ones love live will become shallow/superficial and therefore probably not as good as it could have been.
Easier yes, worse, probably too.
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Living time backwards
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 21, 2010 02:36 PM |
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Quote:
Hey did I tell you I have been snowing another guy for two years? No? Nevermind you know now But I still love you more, why don't you trust me? Ok there was also that guy and the other but I didn't particularly love them so it's ok plus you were away that week, did you want me to get lonely? HEY WHAT WAS THAT SLAP FOR YOU SHOULD RESPECT MY DIFFERENT CULTURE!
well, not sure how I would react in such a situation, but if you really love a girl, what matters to you isn't that she is entirely dedicated to you but that she is happy and does what she wants.
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Let us take me for example. I am upfront when I tell people I don't understand jealousy. If they want to have other relationships, lovers, whatever I am fine with that. All I ask in return is that they are upfront about it to me. It is a different point of view, and very few people actually understand that point of view. Which is why I make sure I explain it to people if I am interested in pursuing a relationship with them. I don't expect them to tell me they prefer a monogomous relationship, because that is a more widespread and accepted view. After I explain my different view to them, most either say "No, I want a monogomous relationship" or "I understand and want the same." (ie a non-monogomous one).
many people seem to think jealousy in a relationship is something normal and even the right behaviour, they only blame jealousy in excess.
I think jealousy is always bad. also being jealous of what your neighbours have and you don't have.
I am for polygamy too, if it was widely accepted, it could solve most problems of jealousy in relationships.
Quote:
Quote:
@ Doomforge
I think this answers your post as well. They have a reason why they say, in love everything is allowed. You don't give the person you date a novel with everything you did or do? If you are a 20-year-old girl who starts dating a boy, would you tell him right away, you've lost count of the boyfriends you had, but slept with at least 10? That you took part in a porn movie two years ago, since you needed the money and was on some drug, but that you are clean now and just passed an aids test, so everything is fine?
Thing is, those things almost never remain a secret. The pop out sooner or later, because somebody tells you, or because you read an old e-mail or something, even unintentionally.
And we all know what happens next.
It's like dating a straight guy as a shemale. Do you think it's fair that the guy "discovers" it after he has already fallen in love? Was this worth keeping as secret since it will lead to a collapse anyway? You're only buying time when lying, nothing more.
you don't judge someone by what that person did in the past
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ohforfsake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted February 21, 2010 02:40 PM |
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well, not sure how I would react in such a situation, but if you really love a girl, what matters to you isn't that she is entirely dedicated to you but that she is happy and does what she wants.
Well said. 
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Living time backwards
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted February 21, 2010 02:49 PM |
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Quote:
In other words, you think it's ok not to care for someone's feelings and pursuit your happiness only, right?
I didn't say that, did I? I just said that making it easy for others doesn't have to be first on the list of priorities.
I mean, you are known to prefer them YOUNG. Now say and older girl knows it, but she LOOKS young, and you make a pass on her, not knowing her real age. Would you expect from her to say, umm, I'm much older than I look, in case she found you quite attractive? In fact, wouldn't you understand it, if she ket quiet AS LONG YOU DIDN'T ASK HER AGE, hoping that things would work out, then, later on, you might be so much in love with each other, so that her age simply wouldn't matter?
But age doesn't matter for me. I mean, yeah, I like them young, but I don't care if they aren't, that's just a minor bonus. My current gf is 21 and I never cared about that.
There are things I care for though which would never work, no matter how much "love" we would put in the pot. Alcoholism or cheating, for instance. I understand your point that some flaws can become unimportant as time goes by but some are PRINCIPLES for some people and nothing can change the way they feel.
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Yes, I agree, but that's hearsay - it's the other guy who said she said. If that's true, it might mean that she tried to sneak her way out of it.
But think about the situation - the other guy "went through her phone" - either he did something you don't do as well or he had a suspicion and try to find some evidemce. MM doesn't seem to have neither looked through her phone nor suspected anything which is interesting.
In any case, because of that, if confronted by MM, it doesn't necessarily mean she'd ve lied to him, too. Moreover, she seems to have been together longer with MM, then date this other guy - might be interesting to hear her version of it - eye to single eye - instead of confronting her as a team.
Well, I agree. But still, even if she denies it - the situation is suspicious enough to lose faith in such a relationship.
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I don't think an outright lie would be justified - however, before I'd start throwing stones or condemn the girl I'd simply hear her out. Alone.
I never called her a *****, and I won't - I agree here - however, as in many places on the board, we're theorycrafting here. Talking about concepts, not real events. So while I do agree with you that in this particular case it would be best to ask her first, judge later - in general - in theory - I don't think curiosity or weird tastes for XXX partners or whatever are to be justified lightly. Not condemned perhaps, but people of such extraordinary tastes should kindly inform people about it and search for people who think the same.
Life would be much easier this way.
Fauch&OFFS - I enjoy dedication. Full dedication means 1 person in my book if you try to share your affection to multiple partners, it's no longer that great, don't you think?
Whatever, I have nothing against polygamy eihter, just not something I'd like to do & not something I'd want my gf to do. Again, people should be honest with their beliefs, that would make them easier to find a person (or persons) that fit them & not waste time as an extreme monogamist dating an extreme polygamist. Polygamist won't care about the situation, monogamist will.
It's sort of like sexual incompatibility - one side has big needs, the other low. The one with low needs is happy, the one with big isn't. There is no "fault" here or anybody "guilty", but perhaps they would be more happy with someone else, and if they were honest with each other, it would happen sooner.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 21, 2010 03:13 PM |
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Quote:
There are things I care for though which would never work, no matter how much "love" we would put in the pot. Alcoholism or cheating, for instance. I understand your point that some flaws can become unimportant as time goes by but some are PRINCIPLES for some people and nothing can change the way they feel.
True, but from the pov of the other person, you may never know, if you don't try.
For the rest it looks as though we could find enough common ground to stop the discussion at this point.
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 21, 2010 03:32 PM |
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Edited by Fauch at 16:06, 21 Feb 2010.
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Quote:
There are things I care for though which would never work, no matter how much "love" we would put in the pot. Alcoholism or cheating, for instance. I understand your point that some flaws can become unimportant as time goes by but some are PRINCIPLES for some people and nothing can change the way they feel.
I would try to fix some of her flaws, if they are likely to prevent her from being really happy. that includes lying which makes you feel guilty and alcoholism, which, as we know, never solves problems.
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I never called her a *****, and I won't - I agree here - however, as in many places on the board, we're theorycrafting here. Talking about concepts, not real events. So while I do agree with you that in this particular case it would be best to ask her first, judge later - in general - in theory - I don't think curiosity or weird tastes for XXX partners or whatever are to be justified lightly. Not condemned perhaps, but people of such extraordinary tastes should kindly inform people about it and search for people who think the same.
you should say it, but actually, you shouldn't have to justify it at all. but in our narrow minded society, it may indeed be the best thing to do. most people would probably keep it secret, by fear of being judged.
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Fauch&OFFS - I enjoy dedication. Full dedication means 1 person in my book if you try to share your affection to multiple partners, it's no longer that great, don't you think?
say it to buddhist monks 
that being said, they seem to be for monogamy, but it doesn't prevent them to feel fully dedicated to every creature on the planet.
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Whatever, I have nothing against polygamy eihter, just not something I'd like to do & not something I'd want my gf to do. Again, people should be honest with their beliefs, that would make them easier to find a person (or persons) that fit them & not waste time as an extreme monogamist dating an extreme polygamist. Polygamist won't care about the situation, monogamist will.
It's sort of like sexual incompatibility - one side has big needs, the other low. The one with low needs is happy, the one with big isn't. There is no "fault" here or anybody "guilty", but perhaps they would be more happy with someone else, and if they were honest with each other, it would happen sooner.
are you supposing that polygamists people have more needs than monogamists people? being monogamists doesn't necessarily mean that I want multiple partners, maybe I only want one, and I don't mind if she has several partners herself.
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You have to see the practical side as well: if a girl dates 2 boys she can at most spend half of all available time with one of them. That would probably amount to no more than 3 days/evening/nights with one of those. Now, if *I* was deeply in love with someone, I naturally would WANT to spend more time with her - which wouldn't be possible, wouldn't it? Which woulöd lead to questions as a matter of course, wouldn't it?
see how narrow minded you are here. there is another obvious solution. spend time all 3 together. but in our society, when 2 boys are dating the same girl, we automatically consider they are rivals.
but if they truely love that girl, all they want is her happiness. thus, they have a common goal and are not rivals.
but most of the time, there isn't true love involved. lots of people see nothing wrong with making their partner unhappy because they are jealous and they dare calling it love.
what do you prefer? a girlfriend who is entirely and exclusively dedicated to you and unhappy, or one who has multiple partners and is happy?
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