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emilsn
Legendary Hero
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posted February 22, 2010 11:52 PM |
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Sorry to interrupt your discussion :)
What do you do when you have a GF who suddenly have frustration outbursts and actully harm herself, and then afterwards is totally cool -
She is not cutting herself but still hurting herself.
and I think she is acting cool afterwards and she wont talk about it.
____________
Don't walk behind me; I may not
lead. Don't walk in front of me;
I may not follow. Just walk
beside me and be my friend.
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SpaceBunny
Adventuring Hero
Goddess (its true!)
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posted February 22, 2010 11:56 PM |
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Then she needs to see a doctor. Pronto.
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Just do as I say and you'll live - its that easy.
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DagothGares
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
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posted February 23, 2010 12:18 AM |
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Alright, it's time for a theoretical scenario
Quote:
When a person fells in love, he has a weakness but at most of the time it's just for the person you are in love with.
Yes, and the unthinkable has happened: I have a crush on someone and it's breaking me.
I've talked about this a few times. Mostly, I semi-humourously deny it and grow desperate, other times I let out big sighs and talk about it, like the poor slob that I am. For you see, I am a coward. I am a huge coward and have always been my entire life. Not only that, but I'm certain that however unhappy I may feel right now, the cold sting of rejection would probably hurt me even more. The thing is that I can't get her out of my head, I can't stop it. So I have to find a way to end it. I tried to wait it out for a long time now and it didn't work.
So I think right now is the time for action. I must retake my own life, because currently my life is decided and dominated by pure chance, which I absolutely hate and loathe, because lady Fortune doesn't shine on me in general. What I decided to do (just a few hours ago) is tell her.
I won't talk about how great she is, because we all know that if she wasn't, then I would have forgotten about her already.
Anyway, the thing is that I know she'll tell me that she doesn't like me the way I like her, which is particularly vexing, but a necessary pain I have to take. This last sentence is undeniable and if you choose to discuss this issue with me then the rejection is not to be questioned. She has already made it quite clear to me she has a crush on someone else as well. She also made it quite clear to me I come on too strong sometimes and she also made it quite clear to me we're just friends and she also is convinced of the principle of the friend zone.
I think perhaps my skull is too thick or something, because that simply isn't enough apparently and I tried to take that as enough, for you know I am a coward, so it shouldn't be that hard for me. Apparently it is that hard, because I'm miserable over this whole sordid affair and I can't just forget it. This is why I need to tell her. Once it is over I can resume to be who I am with my focus and all and I won't need to look at life as hopeless. In fact, I may even begin taking my unromantic interests more seriously.
Now, there is an even worse toll attached to all this, because if I told her I have a crush on her, it implies that I have been deceitful and that the only reason why I wanted contact with her and wanted her copany was because I was in love. While this may or may not be true I have no way of verifying, but I do know that she is a great person and I definitely hate to lose her as a friend, because she listens to me and talks to me and I mean that she earnestly listens to me and takes my words seriously, as she replies. This is rare and very very treasured and I do not want to lose that. This is why I will have to stress that. I'll have to stress that it doesn't matter at all if she likes me in that way or not.
I'd like some people to juge this course of action, according to their own criteria. I'd like that, because I admit I'm not very experienced and maybe I've not seen a better alternative which doesn't require me to be shot down or to risk a loss. I do not want anyone feeling sorry for me and I do not want any judgement that is unconstructive. Tell me what you think should be done.
And don't tell me that "if she won't remain your friend when you tell her, she wasn't your friend in the first place", because she has a reason not to trust me any more after this and you know that it would be only normal for her to avoid me after this, if I fail to maintain my composure once after that.
I'm sorry if I sound melodramatic. This will probably come out as me being negaive when people will judge me for the sociogram.
Baby, don't hurt me... Don't hurt me... No more...
____________
If you have any more questions, go to Dagoth Cares.
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 23, 2010 12:29 AM |
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Edited by Fauch at 00:40, 23 Feb 2010.
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I mean, if my GF is totally in love with me and would do whatever I wish her to do... why would I want to humiliate her, shows her who's boss, neglect her? What for? What good does this bring?
that's stupid, because whether you have respect for her or not, she'll do anything to please you. but once she realises you have been fooling her, she will leave you, and you'll both be sad, or maybe you'll feel strong, but it's a very negative feeling in that case (like taking pleasure by killing)
but if you respect her and gives her as much love as she gives you, you are just giving each other the reasons to make the other one happy.
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Many people subconsciously do it though. Have you ever read some kind of date guide? Yeah it's worthless, but most of them underline the fact that you can't seem "soft", else the woman will treat you without any sort of respect.
not every woman of course. but that's really sad.
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The question is, why do people succumb to their subconscious behavior that hard? Is it so hard to realize that that kind of action is simply stupid, not fair, illogical? That the "soft" person should be in fact treasured for the devotion, not humiliated?
what tells you it is subconscious? psychology would say this behaviour is dictated by your ego, and the ego, by definition I think isn't only disconnected from your subconscient but also completely unaware of it. the subconscious would be where the truth is, while your ego is led by biased / false views of the reality
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But ... well ... some people insist on pushing, using and slowly killing others because they are weak.
depending on the point of view, you could say that manipulators are the weak ones.
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When a person fells in love, he has a weakness but at most of the time it's just for the person you are in love with.
according to buddhism, this weakness doesn't come from love but from the attachment for this person (it's like the desire for an object)
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But imagine that the person X fells in love with the person Y. But Y is totally noob in life, the worsest tragedy you have ever seen. He haven't successed in anything ... or not in the things which he dreamed about.
according to that definition, most people fail at life. (and actually, I would agree  )
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The other people consider him as stupid and childish and his life has turned into a nightmare. This acts on his self esteem. Then he needs to use X because Y can't do anything by himself.
wrong. he THINKS he can't do anything by himself, partly because other people conditionned his mind by telling him he was incapable.
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He even needs to kill slowly X because he knows he is noob and he is weak but the thought that there is someone in worse condition than him makes him calmer.
wrong also. he doesn't need to. but he wants to.
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But only the gentle, sensitive people can bear such an behaviour, because many of them are idealists and for them it's a sin to give up their love. Imagine that finally X breaks out with Y, but if Y coudn't find other fish, he'll try to come back to the old one, he needs it in order to live and to know that he is not that sort of noob 
maybe it is easier for him, but he doesn't need it. the main reason he is a noob is because he is convinced to be one.
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Maybe some of you think that there are not so many people from this kind but have to tell you the opposite thing, unfortunatelly, because self esteem is not just for success - it's about appreciating it - and the parents of every child are those who had to learn him/her to appreciate what they have achieved.
the true problem is how we define success and achievements. it usually means being "better" than other people. having better marks at schools, more friends, getting laid before them, having more money...
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About the subconscious thing ... well ... love is about emotion and we make stupid things when we are in this condition. The brain tells you what it things but the heart won't listen. If you vanquish love to your mind then you have lost its magic.
depends how you define stupid things. buddhism would say that what you do by love or compassion is the best thing you can do.
(yes, I read some stuffs about psychology and buddhism)
dagoth : what buddhism say : it isn't love, but love + attachment. or maybe it is only attachment. according to them, love don't make you feel bad.
I have a crush on a girl I can't get and don't feel really bad about it. actually, it usually (always?) make me feel happy when I think about her.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 23, 2010 12:30 AM |
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Quote:
Now, there is an even worse toll attached to all this, because if I told her I have a crush on her, it implies that I have been deceitful and that the only reason why I wanted contact with her and wanted her copany was because I was in love.
You are in love with her. That seems like quite a good reason to have contact with her, don't you think? Obviously, I don't know her and this could put a strain on your friendship, but it would make more sense if she took it well, even if she didn't reciprocate the feelings, than for her to take it poorly. Of course, unfortunately most people don't treat love as a sensible thing. Perhaps if they did, the world would be much better off.
Anyway, you asked to judge this course of action, so I will. In my opinion, there is a better alternative - inaction. Just don't do anything about it at all. Chances are, even if you remain fond of her, these intense feelings will disappear, and you wouldn't have risked anything in the first place. Crushes do not last long. They either develop into mutual love or wither away.
____________
Eccentric Opinion
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SpaceBunny
Adventuring Hero
Goddess (its true!)
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posted February 23, 2010 12:53 AM |
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Well DG I agree with Mvass, do nothing. You've said she has made it clear she only likes you as a friend. However, I feel that even if you did tell her how you felt, she would most probably remain your friend. I understand the part of not wanting to lose her, especially if she is supportive and caring, but you may find it helpful to give yourself some space. If you have these feelings and you seem quite certain that she doesnt feel the same way, I think a little distance, even if only for a short period, would be beneficial. You briefly touched on this yourself, as though you realise that you might need to get this girl out of your system.
This is something I try to do and Im aware I may not be explaining this very well. But I find it helps if you can pinpoint the individual attractions you have for a person. By analysing the personality traits you find appealing might help you detach yourself from the person you have feelings for, especially if you believe it will be unrequited. But then you are talking of not wanting to lose her as a friend, so maybe this wont be of much help.
I wish you the best though.
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Just do as I say and you'll live - its that easy.
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MightyMage
Honorable
Legendary Hero
of INSANITY and DELICIOUSNESS
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posted February 23, 2010 03:40 AM |
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Quote:
usually it's the other way around...
being too nice means the other person stops respecting you and starts pushing you around... women can be very cruel 
Sure I was nice to her. I would have given her anything. I was in love with her but I think I maintained a balance. I did take a lot of crap from her that I shouldn't have but it's something I've learned from.
I'm doing my best to move on. I've never truely hated anyone so I think this is a first for me. The only reason I do is because I loved her so much.
Her loss.
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Though I must still bow
in awe for the awesomeness that is
MightyMage. For he is all I could ever
want to be! - OhforfSake
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Ichirguboil
Hired Hero
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posted February 23, 2010 05:10 AM |
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Quote:
For you see, I am a coward. I am a huge coward and have always been my entire life. Not only that, but I'm certain that however unhappy I may feel right now, the cold sting of rejection would probably hurt me even more. The thing is that I can't get her out of my head, I can't stop it. So I have to find a way to end it. I tried to wait it out for a long time now and it didn't work.
So I think right now is the time for action. I must retake my own life, because currently my life is decided and dominated by pure chance, which I absolutely hate and loathe, because lady Fortune doesn't shine on me in general. What I decided to do (just a few hours ago) is tell her.
I won't talk about how great she is, because we all know that if she wasn't, then I would have forgotten about her already.
Anyway, the thing is that I know she'll tell me that she doesn't like me the way I like her, which is particularly vexing, but a necessary pain I have to take. This last sentence is undeniable and if you choose to discuss this issue with me then the rejection is not to be questioned. She has already made it quite clear to me she has a crush on someone else as well. She also made it quite clear to me I come on too strong sometimes and she also made it quite clear to me we're just friends and she also is convinced of the principle of the friend zone.
I think perhaps my skull is too thick or something, because that simply isn't enough apparently and I tried to take that as enough, for you know I am a coward, so it shouldn't be that hard for me. Apparently it is that hard, because I'm miserable over this whole sordid affair and I can't just forget it. This is why I need to tell her. Once it is over I can resume to be who I am with my focus and all and I won't need to look at life as hopeless. In fact, I may even begin taking my unromantic interests more seriously.
Now, there is an even worse toll attached to all this, because if I told her I have a crush on her, it implies that I have been deceitful and that the only reason why I wanted contact with her and wanted her copany was because I was in love. While this may or may not be true I have no way of verifying, but I do know that she is a great person and I definitely hate to lose her as a friend, because she listens to me and talks to me and I mean that she earnestly listens to me and takes my words seriously, as she replies. This is rare and very very treasured and I do not want to lose that. This is why I will have to stress that. I'll have to stress that it doesn't matter at all if she likes me in that way or not.
I'd like some people to juge this course of action, according to their own criteria. I'd like that, because I admit I'm not very experienced and maybe I've not seen a better alternative which doesn't require me to be shot down or to risk a loss. I do not want anyone feeling sorry for me and I do not want any judgement that is unconstructive. Tell me what you think should be done.
And don't tell me that "if she won't remain your friend when you tell her, she wasn't your friend in the first place", because she has a reason not to trust me any more after this and you know that it would be only normal for her to avoid me after this, if I fail to maintain my composure once after that.
I'm sorry if I sound melodramatic. This will probably come out as me being negaive when people will judge me for the sociogram.
Baby, don't hurt me... Don't hurt me... No more...
No, you are not a coward, you have gotten my previous post wrong - I have been talking about some people who think that they are inlove and and destroy the life of the others and they don't care about that. So they provee they are not in love and are egocentric.
Actually I think your decision is worthy and maybe it's the one which is the most fair to her.
I wish I had a piece of advice to offer you, but I don't and I have been in the same situation nearly threee years chasing the guy who didn't love me back, but I considered him as a friend. He made the things more easier when he began to behave like and arrogant pig and I couldn't take it anymore, so I had to leave. He didn't know I liked him at all, never told it straight into his eyes ... just talking with some sort of riddles, because I feared to be repulsed. At the very end, I told him he is a pig and I don't know why is he behaving like this ... and tryed to continue with my life. So here I am. My advice is to do what you think it's right to do. Yeah, you are right it's more likely for her not to trust you that much after everything but we can't make someone love us ... we just give our love and wait to see what the other person would do. If you tell her the truth it would be some sort of end of a period in your friendship .... it might not be the last one. If you make it after this, you'd prorably be more closer. Just tell everything you feel, I mean what you have written in here ... might help ... just tell the whole truth. I think this way you'll find a peace for your soul, if not anything else. Things will finalaze and you'll see in what direction of life you are supposed to go ... would it be with her or not ...
The other thing is that actually in my opinion it would be more easier if you leave her for a while ... i mean not seeing her ... can help you go through this. Just ... make something you like, achieve some golas which are not related with her ... try something different ... sometimes can help, sometimes there are things which obsess your minds and we forget about the others ... and sometimes it better to let them do so. This had helped me a lot ... twice 
Fauch, agreed I meant some of the things you have written on your post and they are quite true.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 23, 2010 08:19 AM |
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@ DG
My advice looks a bit different here.
Since you are certain there can be no happy ending for you, I'd flatly tell her the truth and end the whole "friendship thing" myself. Why?
Because you will end up listening to stuff you just don't want to hear from here - about howw unhappy she is that the guy SHE has a crush on doesn't seem to be interested and so on, or, worse, that you'll hear first hand about how everything really seems to work out fine with the guy...
Why torture yourself? Keeping friendship will only keep that flame of hope alive that somehow, maybe, in the end all just MIGHT work out fine - and it will keep you from opening your eyes and have an open mind for everything else that may present itself.
The solution I'd prefer was: go talk to her and tell her you cannot maintain the relationship you have, because it's either too much or not enough, and if you can't have her the way you want to you'd rather not have her at all.
I mean, imagine a really mouth-watering dinner plate, that you really want to eat, but cost more money than you have. Does it make sense to keep waiting there, smelling that delicious aroma, imagining how it might taste, watching it... Nah. Better get it out of your mind and try to find something you can afford.
I know, you won't like that advice - but if it was easy you wouldn't have asked.
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted February 23, 2010 08:25 AM |
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Well..another spin on things by yours truely. Deceit is never good, for any reason. You are not only hurting yourself, but the person you claim to care for. The truth will set you free. If you like her TELL her. Either something will come of it, or something won't. It it does great. If it doesn't then at least you won't have to hide anymore. Life is too short.
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Message received.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 23, 2010 09:34 AM |
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@ emilsn
Quote:
What do you do when you have a GF who suddenly have frustration outbursts and actully harm herself, and then afterwards is totally cool -
She is not cutting herself but still hurting herself.
and I think she is acting cool afterwards and she wont talk about it.
It's called "autoaggression". There are self-help groups for that, even web-based, I think, and it might be a good thing to try and research for one that would be usable for your GF (language and so on), where she might just check, get a picture and get an understanding about the situation.
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Elvin 
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted February 23, 2010 09:46 AM |
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Actually.. I think it's best that you told her Dagoth if only for a proper closure and also to prove yourself that you are not who you think you are. And you are better than that, trust me. And I understand you enjoy her company regardless so I wouldn't suggest that you cut of your friendly ties either. Having been in the same situation and heard from friends she'll likely go aww and comfort you. People aren't all that distrustful and you admitting to both her and yourself which your true feelings were is by no means a bad thing. Not like you schemed against her or did something creepy, you just did not have the right circumstances to handle it better. And she will understand that, in fact you may find that your relationship will improve after that's out of the way. May be uncomfortable for a bit but don't worry, just a short transition period.
Do it for yourself, inaction won't help anyone.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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veco
Legendary Hero
who am I?
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posted February 23, 2010 10:11 AM |
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I've been in a similar situation, Dagoth. Only that I went silent and hostile so that scenario was a bit worse. It then took me a year to get over it and muster myself to apologise and now after another year + some effort from my side we're finally talking like old friends again Even burnt bridges can be rebuilt and in the long run I'm happy with the effect (not nessesarily with the path I took, it could go a lot smoother)
Now with my blessings you can go for it
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none of my business.
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emilsn
Legendary Hero
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posted February 23, 2010 10:14 AM |
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Quote:
@ emilsn
Quote:
What do you do when you have a GF who suddenly have frustration outbursts and actully harm herself, and then afterwards is totally cool -
She is not cutting herself but still hurting herself.
and I think she is acting cool afterwards and she wont talk about it.
It's called "autoaggression". There are self-help groups for that, even web-based, I think, and it might be a good thing to try and research for one that would be usable for your GF (language and so on), where she might just check, get a picture and get an understanding about the situation.
Thanks mate
I'm just not sure she would agree to having a problem because I believe it is the first time in a LONG time she has done it (she has told me that she have done it before)...
____________
Don't walk behind me; I may not
lead. Don't walk in front of me;
I may not follow. Just walk
beside me and be my friend.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 23, 2010 10:53 AM |
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@ emilsn
Well, I'm not that much into the matter - but it seems there may be a lot of different reasons for doing such things, and the thing to keep in mind is, that autoaggression - the way I understand it - is NOT motivated by the wish to die or self-hate or something like that, but is instead a way to make things BETTER for the afflicted, that is: they can take the hurt they inflict on themselves better (and cope with it better), than it is with the hurt they OTHERWISE may feel, and THAT hurt can have a lot of different reasons as well.
So usually there is no danger of suicide or something.
It's a way to cope. The simple question is what there IS, she has to cope with.
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emilsn
Legendary Hero
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posted February 23, 2010 12:27 PM |
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You are right I have read up on it and I called someone to talk about it and I have it all covered now Thanks
____________
Don't walk behind me; I may not
lead. Don't walk in front of me;
I may not follow. Just walk
beside me and be my friend.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 23, 2010 12:32 PM |
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You're welcome.
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted February 23, 2010 12:33 PM |
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Emilsn: If she doesn't make it a habit don't bother. If she does make it a habit talk to her. She's probably doing it becuase of something wrong in her life. But for the love of god don't tell her to get help!
DG: Talk to her.
____________
DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted February 23, 2010 04:23 PM |
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Quote:
Yes, and the unthinkable has happened: I have a crush on someone and it's breaking me.
Dagoth, why weren't you listening when I told you this would happen soon?
Quote:
I've talked about this a few times. Mostly, I semi-humourously deny it and grow desperate, other times I let out big sighs and talk about it, like the poor slob that I am. For you see, I am a coward. I am a huge coward and have always been my entire life. Not only that, but I'm certain that however unhappy I may feel right now, the cold sting of rejection would probably hurt me even more. The thing is that I can't get her out of my head, I can't stop it. So I have to find a way to end it. I tried to wait it out for a long time now and it didn't work.
So I think right now is the time for action. I must retake my own life, because currently my life is decided and dominated by pure chance, which I absolutely hate and loathe, because lady Fortune doesn't shine on me in general. What I decided to do (just a few hours ago) is tell her.
I won't talk about how great she is, because we all know that if she wasn't, then I would have forgotten about her already.
Anyway, the thing is that I know she'll tell me that she doesn't like me the way I like her, which is particularly vexing, but a necessary pain I have to take. This last sentence is undeniable and if you choose to discuss this issue with me then the rejection is not to be questioned. She has already made it quite clear to me she has a crush on someone else as well. She also made it quite clear to me I come on too strong sometimes and she also made it quite clear to me we're just friends and she also is convinced of the principle of the friend zone.
If you fear rejection that much, you can playfully ask what would happen if you wanted to be her boyfriend or if you asked her, would she agree. You have always the comfort to tell her you were just jesting and you know you're just friends, and you can actually ask her why not and why would it not work before doing so. As they say, you never know with women, sometimes you think they are not interested while they have a crush on you.
Get this over with ASAP. You will feel much, much better. I also think ending the friendship altogether - exactly like JJ said - is the best way, time will heal you fast, however if you keep contacting her, you will never feel well, because she will constantly remind you of your feelings towards her.
Quote:
Now, there is an even worse toll attached to all this, because if I told her I have a crush on her, it implies that I have been deceitful and that the only reason why I wanted contact with her and wanted her copany was because I was in love. While this may or may not be true I have no way of verifying, but I do know that she is a great person and I definitely hate to lose her as a friend, because she listens to me and talks to me and I mean that she earnestly listens to me and takes my words seriously, as she replies. This is rare and very very treasured and I do not want to lose that. This is why I will have to stress that. I'll have to stress that it doesn't matter at all if she likes me in that way or not.
I'll be radical. You _do_ want to lose her as a friend. You want her as someone more important than "just a friend", don't you? If that can't happen, end it. Burn the bridges and forget her, you will get NOTHING but just misery, trust me. You're a sensitive guy, so you won't take it well, pretending will do you no good.
And it implies nothing. Be serious man. If you want her as a girlfriend, how can you say that she would take it the wrong way if you told her you got feelings for her? Then how do you imagine it, to convince her into relationship while feeling nothing towards her from the "attraction zone" ? It's mutually exclusive. Don't lie to yourself and you'll do fine.
If she can't appreciate that someone loves her and would actually feel offended by that, she's not worth your time. Would you be offended by that? Think that "oh, it was JUST love, she doesn't like me at all" if the situation was turned around? Doesn't it sound weird? I can't even imagine such a cold reaction.
Quote:
I'd like some people to juge this course of action, according to their own criteria. I'd like that, because I admit I'm not very experienced and maybe I've not seen a better alternative which doesn't require me to be shot down or to risk a loss. I do not want anyone feeling sorry for me and I do not want any judgement that is unconstructive. Tell me what you think should be done.
First, you have to be SURE that she really does NOT want you as her boyfriend EVER. Once that is out of the picture and you're sure she doesn't, I'd advise you to find another friend. It may sound cold, but many people can like you, listen to you and treat you seriously without breaking your heart in process.
It's not worth it, Dagoth. Listen to JJ, he speaks the truth.
Quote:
And don't tell me that "if she won't remain your friend when you tell her, she wasn't your friend in the first place", because she has a reason not to trust me any more after this and you know that it would be only normal for her to avoid me after this, if I fail to maintain my composure once after that.
I'm sorry if I sound melodramatic. This will probably come out as me being negaive when people will judge me for the sociogram.
So you'd rather subject yourself to more torture of "she will never be with me"? Is that friendship worth it? I'm really curious why wouldn't she want to be with you. if she's single and you have a great time together, she's probably too immature hoping for a prince on a white horse (which is ridiculous, since that never happens). Seriously, if you understand each other and have a great time together, what else do you need? If that's not enough for her, I really think she's still too young to understand how important this is.
People miss such great opportunities of wonderful relationships in search of some stupid "fascination" that turns out as a drunken, stupid guy who was charming for a year, then resorted to beating, for example. Bah.
Don't forget to update once you're done with "the big talk".
Oh, and you're not melodramatic at all. Good luck.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 23, 2010 05:58 PM |
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where do you set the limit between friendship and being a couple?
what do you think you will gain by being her boyfriend? being friends means a lot, much more than just getting drunk together at some parties for example (well, I don't think you are that stupid, but it's what friendship seem to mean to some people)
Quote:
I have been talking about some people who think that they are inlove and and destroy the life of the others and they don't care about that. So they provee they are not in love and are egocentric.
that's sad. especially when you hurt someone, or people she / he loves, claiming it is because you are in love with him / her. and often, those people don't seem to realise there is no love at all. love doesn't motivate you to hurt other people.
thinking about it, if people actually knew the difference between love and desire, which may create jealousy and lead to terrible events, there would be less problems. I guess, often, people claim to be in love while there is only desire involved, which is like wanting an object.
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