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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 21, 2010 04:32 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
You have to see the practical side as well: if a girl dates 2 boys she can at most spend half of all available time with one of them. That would probably amount to no more than 3 days/evening/nights with one of those. Now, if *I* was deeply in love with someone, I naturally would WANT to spend more time with her - which wouldn't be possible, wouldn't it? Which woulöd lead to questions as a matter of course, wouldn't it?
see how narrow minded you are here. there is another obvious solution. spend time all 3 together. but in our society, when 2 boys are dating the same girl, we automatically consider they are rivals.
but if they truely love that girl, all they want is her happiness. thus, they have a common goal and are not rivals.
but most of the time, there isn't true love involved. lots of people see nothing wrong with making their partner unhappy because they are jealous and they dare calling it love.
what do you prefer? a girlfriend who is entirely and exclusively dedicated to you and unhappy, or one who has multiple partners and is happy?
Well, it's fine that you are so open-minded, but open-midedness isn't the question here. I stated that if a girl dates 2 boys - the boys not knowing about each other, of course -, then, when love grows, you'd want to share ever more TIME with the girl. You could, however, never share more than half at most. "Can we see each other tomorrow?" "No, sorry, not possible." "Hey, how about going to that concert on Tuesday?" "Tuesday I can't."...
I mean, wouldn't you ask, WHY, for frig's sake?
Which means, simply, questions would mount.
There can be any rivalry if people don't know about each other.
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MightyMage
Honorable
Legendary Hero
of INSANITY and DELICIOUSNESS
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posted February 21, 2010 05:32 PM |
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Alright, for all of you not quite understanding, I'll go ahead and fill you in. Yes, she did lie. I know the difference between assuming trust and actually having it. This thread from the start has been about the same girl. For those of you who have not read back and don't plan on it, I'll give a quick summery.
April of 2008: met Jasmine through prank phone call one Saturday night. It was about 1:00 in the morning when she called me in a drunkin state asking if I wanted to come party with her. I told her no but we continued to talk anyway. The next day she calls back to apoligize for her actions. I ask her if she still wants to hang out some time minus the mass drinking. She says yes. She calls the following Tuesday. We go out to eat and have a good time. I take her back home. She calls an hour later to tell me she had a good time and wants to see me again.
Fast forward to August. We've been together about four months. By this point I've decided I really love this girl. However (you really will have to go back to the begginning if you want the details) , things go wrong and she calls me one night to say things aren't working out. I'm heart broken but try to carry on. About two weeks later she sends me a message. She wants to meet and talk about things. We do and she explains why she broke up with me but she wants to give us another chance because she still loves me. I agree and we start going out once again.
She eventually starts collage and the time that we have to spend with each other grows thin. I take her out to dinner one night and out of nowhere she just breaks down and starts yelling. She thinks I'm an snow and don't care about her. That's long story short. In reality our argument lasted about four hours. I was pissed off and didn't want to see or hear from her. After everything she felt I didn't care about her. That hurt the most.
So I move on once again but all in all I'm not a very good person. If you've heard of Tucker Max, I acted a lot like him treating women as objects and using them only for sex (sorry younger folks if I've just corrupted your young minds). Thankfully it doesn't take me long to realize this is not a good path.
Day after Thanksgiving, 2008. I'm out with a good friend of mine enjoying myself. We decide to head to the mall and fight Christmas Shopping Crowds. I get a text message from Jasmine telling me she misses me. Whatever, I don't care. Two hours later while we're sitting down eating, I get another text message from her. Same thing. I'm thinking weird but whatever. I drop my friend off at her hotel and I head home. On my way home I get a THIRD text message from Jasmine. I still don't care but now I'm curious.
I get home and tell one of my buddies about it. I think I also posted about it here. I end up checking my e-mail and there's a message from her. All about how she misses me and still loves me. I finally answer her back and she tells me she's been with other guys but she couldn't get me out of her head. She made a mistake and wants nothing more then to be with me.
We talk through most of December and I agree to meet with her and talk.
We meet January 2nd and spend all day and most of the night together. This is where the first lie came. While we were sitting there talking, I was very specific in asking if she was seeing someone else. She said no.
Around the end of January maybe begginning of February I decided I wanted to officially ask her to be my girlfriend once again. She was under the impression that I simply wanted her as a "fun buddy"
I went and bought a promise ring, also something I posted about, and asked her to to be with me. She said yes.
Never was a second relationship ever mentioned or hinted at. When I did get suspicious about another guy, she told me don't worry. He's just a friend.
Yeah, she lied.
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Though I must still bow
in awe for the awesomeness that is
MightyMage. For he is all I could ever
want to be! - OhforfSake
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 21, 2010 06:27 PM |
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Right. Not good.
So after spending the best time of 2 years with her, with her breaking things up twice, only for her to try and get you back...
She'll have reasons for calling you, breaking with you and try to fix it again, and all of it twice, but having a second guy beside you.
From a neutral point of view it looks like shed'd not be completely happy with you, but without you either - she may like the sex, for instance, but miss something for the rest of it.
After 2 years I'd be curious about what's what.
But after being happy now for a year (I mean, you obviously had nothing to complain and there was no row), it looks like she was happy with the arrangement, so for you it might probably obvious, what is what.
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Guitarguy
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Rockoon.
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posted February 21, 2010 06:33 PM |
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MM,
(First of all, I can't believe my last reply to you about this topic was back in 2008. How time flies.)
I'm sorry everything turned out so cruddy for you. Don't beat yourself up over this. She may have fooled you big time, but any decent guy worth his salt would have fallen for it too. Now that you've emerged the wiser, waste no more sympathy on her. She screwed you over for the last time. Just set your sights forward and don't look back. You'll find someone more deserving of your love.
-Guitarguy
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted February 21, 2010 06:33 PM |
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Did JJ just stole my role to play the "devil's lawyer"? 
You brought up the law (sic, again) in a discussion about "lies" and "omissions". Tell you what though, I'm absolutely certain MM doesn't give a **** about it or what "the law" says on the matter.
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The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted February 21, 2010 06:52 PM |
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MM:
On my dating spree, I've met a lot of girls similar to Jasmine. The main thing connecting them was the lack of certainty. Their emotions and opinions were constantly changing, and while I was trying to establish some sort of stable connection, it was often failing. It wasn't just mood swings. I was completely unsure what did they really want, was it friendship, free sex, true relationship or nothing at all, and to make it worse, they were clueless too. When asked, they couldn't give an answer. When pushed, they would admit they don't really know.
Life in endless doubt wasn't really promising, so I used to give up quickly, fearing what turned out to be your story.
Off all types of women, I learned to avoid mainly those who just randomly go where the flame wanders. They rarely have a clue what to do with their life and you can mainly expect them to hurt you after some time... I'm not saying a person that is not sure of his feelings is instantly an empty, uninteresting person, of course. Thing is, however, people who can't decide their minds on the smallest hint of "what I want" just aren't ready for a relationship and once it gets discovered, the best solution I've found in my short life is to back off.
I'm not sure whether Jasmine was like that, but from what you say... it sure sounds familiar.
It probably seems hard now, but if I were you, I would feel better already with the knowledge that there will be no more doubts since it's already over.
Perhaps you are not the person like me to have the doubts in the first place, of course - in such situation there is barely a thing to be happy about. But, seeing the history of your relationship, I would be surprised to hear from you that you never wondered "what the hell I'm doing, this isn't worth my time", even when you were with her (not just angry at her). I would most likely feel insecure to the point of... well, dumping her in like, 50% of your relationship's time 
But I'm not the most forgiving person around. And I _really_ want to feel some sort of stability. The peace of thought brought by the realization that my girlfriend won't fire some weird mood swings, unnamed resentments, breakup threats or whatever. I usually give up at the very sight of those.
Anyway friend, I think it's for the best, ultimately. She wasn't really the best person to allocate feelings in. Good luck in the future. Just don't go at a dating spree now, been there, done that, not worth it 
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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ohforfsake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted February 21, 2010 07:11 PM |
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Quote:
Did JJ just stole my role to play the "devil's lawyer"?
No, I think stealing is the wrong term to use. I'd say he just copied it. After all you were (and are) still able to do it, if you want. Which would not be the case if it had been stealing, as I believe stealing imply you can't do it yourself anymore.
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Living time backwards
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted February 21, 2010 07:12 PM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 19:12, 21 Feb 2010.
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Yes but I didn't do it on this thread, and don't plan to 
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The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted February 22, 2010 11:12 AM |
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@Jolly and I am tired of your style as well. You put words in peoples mouths, jump to conclusions (or assumptions if you prefer the term), can't help but attack the person instead of the points, and sometimes are just out and out rude.
You said there was no laws about lying by omission, I pointed out the fact that their were..if it was so obvious, then why didn't you include it in your post and avoid the confusion? I am not going back over all the points, I am tired of it. You can't even seem to have a discussion without making or taking it personally when somebody disagrees with you.
At one time I held you in very high esteem, especially when we were at Celestial Heavens. No clue what happened. Now every thing is "I am right, you are wrong, it doesn't matter what you say..I am not listening." and jumping to conclusions and putting words in others mouths. As Moderator, I have to maintain neutrality, so I don't or won't make this personal, but your current ways leave a very bad taste in my mouth. I will be the first to admit I can be somewhat hard to understand, and am willing to TRY to clarify something if asked.
Really I don't care if you think the worst of me, or what others think of me to be honest. All these hidden meanings you THINK are there, arn't. You just end up looking like a troll, and I know you are better then that. So think whatever you will, put words in my mouth and make all the assumptions you want. When you actually want to debate like a HUMAN then feel free to drop me a HCM and let me know. I would really look forward to it.
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Message received.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 22, 2010 11:42 AM |
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@ Mytical
I was starting to answer this, lengthily, but I have a better idea.
How about you show me, please, where I made assumptions about you and put words in your mouth, instead of always claiming that like a virgin claiming to have been touched indecently.
So, go ahead. Show me, please, where I put words in your mouth and made assumptions. One post with no more than one example for each of those. Can you do that?
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted February 22, 2010 11:48 AM |
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Edited by Mytical at 12:00, 22 Feb 2010.
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Well I will START at page 117 of this very thread, post 18 and post 20. Give me but a sec to copy and paste the exact times you assumed things and put words in my mouth.
Quote:
The law, you have so much disregard for
Show me where I said I have any disregard for the law? Yes, I think there are laws that were bad, and that one should not blindly follow any law, but I never said I had disregard for the law or even disliked most laws.
Which leads to post 20.
Quote:
You are the one who is assuming, because YOU are the one saying: ALTHOUGH the law does NOT say something is wrong, it IS wrong. That's you, not me.
No I said that assuming something is right automatically because a law says so is bad. Not that it is wrong because a law says it is right. There is a HUGE difference.
Now lets go back to the HC sociogram (spelling) thread. Remember this?
Quote:
And what your posts are implying about what you probably think about me, would suggest the idea that any post of mine is a waste of time anyway
You automattically assume I think your posts are a waste of time, and I don't. While I don't care for you making assumptions, and putting words in peoples mouths, on the whole you have some very interesting posts.
Now in fairness to this thread, post your reply and then I will start a thread in the tavern or somewhere if I think a reply is in order. We have gotten WAY off topic.
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Message received.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 22, 2010 12:30 PM |
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Ok. let's see. I ask prior to answering whether you want to plit hairs or not, but I suppose you don't.
Quote:
Well I will START at page 117 of this very thread, post 18 and post 20. Give me but a sec to copy and paste the exact times you assumed things and put words in my mouth.
Quote:
The law, you have so much disregard for
Show me where I said I have any disregard for the law? Yes, I think there are laws that were bad, and that one should not blindly follow any law, but I never said I had disregard for the law or even disliked most laws.
Ok. You remember the Law and rules thread where we had a similar discussion. For simplicity's sake I quote only one summarizing point of yours:
Quote:
Humans like to think they can determine rights, and who gets which. That they are the ultimate authority. They are not. Some things just are. Life is natural (unless you think we are made in some factory somewhere).
Keep in mind that this was in contradiction to my opinion defing RIGHTS - as in right and wrong - as in need of a CODE OF LAWS -, which you didn't agree with.
Moreover you have made it plain - and don't deny - that you think (with a certain degree of absolute validity) that some laws were a bad idea and others were simply wrong, and when I mentioned the law, you came up with "ah the old, the law says it's legal, so it must be right" thing.
I, personally, think, that this justifies the use "disregard of the law", meant in a GENERAL way. It doesn't mean you would BREAK the law - it just means, that you don't hold the law in high regard. In this specific connection it's certainly justified, at least in my opinion, since you do not accept the law as the last ruling instance here (but instead claim an instance of wrong/right over and above them).
Quote:
Which leads to post 20.
Quote:
You are the one who is assuming, because YOU are the one saying: ALTHOUGH the law does NOT say something is wrong, it IS wrong. That's you, not me.
No I said that assuming something is right automatically because a law says so is bad. Not that it is wrong because a law says it is right. There is a HUGE difference.
That, however, DOES NOT APPLY HERE! The law says what is WRONG, not what is right. The law doesn't state that omitting something is right; it would state only if omitting something is WRONG. That's why I rephrased the Italics - it's just wrong, because the law doesn't say anything about right, only about wrong.
With the context here, the question was, did Jasmine do something WRONG by omitting something. The question is NOT: did she do RIGHT by omitting something. This is the point that *I* had been making (and not only in this thread): Not doing wrong isn't the same thing than doing RIGHT, but in this case the question was: DID SHE DO WRONG? Or would you disagree?
However, your phrasing made "not wrong" equal to "right", which it isn't.
This is, by the way, the thing, I ASSUME (yes, here I'm assuming), you seem to have a problem with: Not wrong isn't the same thing than right, but nmot wrong is enough to avoid blame and penalties most of the time.
Quote:
Now lets go back to the HC sociogram (spelling) thread. Remember this?
Quote:
And what your posts are implying about what you probably think about me, would suggest the idea that any post of mine is a waste of time anyway
You automattically assume I think your posts are a waste of time, and I don't. While I don't care for you making assumptions, and putting words in peoples mouths, on the whole you have some very interesting posts.
You are the native English speaker, but what this post means is something different, and I think, it's no misunderstanding possible: First part of the sentence says, that to me your posts are implying a couple of things you probably think about me, and these things you think about me suggest the idea (FOR ME) that any post of mine (to you) is a waste of time anyway. Which means, that some of your posts have given me the idea that you will disregard certain things I say anyway. Your last post here seems to underline this, don't you think?
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted February 22, 2010 03:03 PM |
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@MM
Quote:
met Jasmine through prank phone call one Saturday night. It was about 1:00 in the morning when she called me in a drunkin state
Maybe this should have been your first clue.
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 22, 2010 04:35 PM |
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Ichirguboil
Hired Hero
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posted February 22, 2010 05:17 PM |
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Well, everyone makes mistakes for his actions in life. As mu teacher in literature used to say, yeah, there are marks at school, but there are exams so you can improve them, you have a second chance, but unfortunately the things in life are not like this. You make a mistake, you get hurt and that is. The only thing remaining after all is wisdom ... It's always hard for people to appreciate its value, especially when they had lost the hope for better future with the beloved one, when they know they have been cheated or something ... but time passes ... some say it heals the old wounds, some say you just learn to live with them trough the wisdom of time, but it doesn't matter ... because the result is the same for those ones who are constantly trying to find their happiness.
Well, for me, MightyMage seems like you don't have to blame yourself for not being enough good for her. I have a guess that you are actually kind of really sensitive person and you like to help people who you love. The only thing which you can blame yourself for is that you were tolerating such a behaviour. I don't know the girl, nor you but reading what you have written I have the impression that she a person who can't actually love ... by the true meaning of the word.
I have a friend of mine and her sad story is very close to yours. She met a boy, fall in love with him from first sight but he wasn't a good person. He was kind of egocentric, he couldn't give he was just a passive reciever of everything. And ... it's a long story and it has to do with humaliation and sacrifice and so much other things, but can't be told, but at the end, I am not exaggarating she was devastated, ruined and fell into a deep depression. She began to live only when she escaped him ... forever. For nearly two years she fought with herself and the feeling. It was really hard but now she is a completely new person, happy for what she has in life. So I jump into the conclusion that maybe it would be better if you forget about the girl ... forever and build your new self. Sometimes people are searching for something really complicated when they have to finish an importand charpter of their life but it's not that hard ... you just ... leave ... and forget ... with the simpiest way you can think of
Don't let her ruin your life once again. Considering what you have written I think that you have given what you had to give but she didn't appriciated it. And ... yeah ... I am quite sure she will return one day once again. I know what those kind of poeple are up to ...
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Look! Spammer behind your back
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted February 22, 2010 08:00 PM |
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Quote:
Well, for me, MightyMage seems like you don't have to blame yourself for not being enough good for her
usually it's the other way around...
being too nice means the other person stops respecting you and starts pushing you around... women can be very cruel 
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Ichirguboil
Hired Hero
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posted February 22, 2010 10:21 PM |
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Yeah, that's what I meant, you have to find the balance, but sometimes is difficult ... The funny thing is when we see that there is going to hapen something which can hurt us we tend to deny it and not to open our eyes for what is happening around us. Especially when we are in love and you can see the whole your world just in the face of the person you love.
But there are many indicators which can help you understand what is going on the other person's mind but firstly ... you have to be ready to see ANYTHING ... even the bad things ... and on the other hand ... sometimes it makes you so suspicious that you can't look on yourself I would personally prefer to be more careful with a new person in my life or with a person who has betrayed me ... once, but the question how do we handle problems in our life is complex, because we all are different and prefer to bear differend penalties, to loose different things in the name of achieving others.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted February 22, 2010 10:55 PM |
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I just don't get one thing.
Why do people insist so hard on using people that they see "weak"
I mean, if my GF is totally in love with me and would do whatever I wish her to do... why would I want to humiliate her, shows her who's boss, neglect her? What for? What good does this bring?
Many people subconsciously do it though. Have you ever read some kind of date guide? Yeah it's worthless, but most of them underline the fact that you can't seem "soft", else the woman will treat you without any sort of respect.
The question is, why do people succumb to their subconscious behavior that hard? Is it so hard to realize that that kind of action is simply stupid, not fair, illogical? That the "soft" person should be in fact treasured for the devotion, not humiliated?
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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SpaceBunny
Adventuring Hero
Goddess (its true!)
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posted February 22, 2010 11:11 PM |
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MM in your case, the girl turned out to be a selfish, untrustworthy person - totally emotionally immature. You cant blame yourself for
what happened or for not knowing about it. It was her fault and its going to be her loss. Unfortunately, there is little that can be done if you are the type of person who gives their heart freely, a lot of people do and this isn't a 'weakness'. Others can give all the advice in the world - about not being so trusting next time or taking things more slowly, but the truth is that when you meet that person who makes your heart beat faster and you cant think about anything else other than them, well ... all that advice no longer matters. Falling in love is a powerful drug and can dominate your life at that precise time. You're probably also feeling a little humiliated, but dont. That's her baggage not yours. Take some time out and chill. And dont have anything more to do with her. She isnt worth it. Be true to yourself and you will find someone who appreciates you.
@Doomforge .... you're absolutely right. But then we're not all equal emotionally are we.
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Just do as I say and you'll live - its that easy.
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Ichirguboil
Hired Hero
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posted February 22, 2010 11:42 PM |
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Doomforge, you bring an interesting question in the discussion. It's more about psychology, I think. But ... well ... some people insist on pushing, using and slowly killing others because they are weak.
When a person fells in love, he has a weakness but at most of the time it's just for the person you are in love with.
But imagine that the person X fells in love with the person Y. But Y is totally noob in life, the worsest tragedy you have ever seen. He haven't successed in anything ... or not in the things which he dreamed about. The other people consider him as stupid and childish and his life has turned into a nightmare. This acts on his self esteem. Then he needs to use X because Y can't do anything by himself. He even needs to kill slowly X because he knows he is noob and he is weak but the thought that there is someone in worse condition than him makes him calmer. But only the gentle, sensitive people can bear such an behaviour, because many of them are idealists and for them it's a sin to give up their love. Imagine that finally X breaks out with Y, but if Y coudn't find other fish, he'll try to come back to the old one, he needs it in order to live and to know that he is not that sort of noob
Maybe some of you think that there are not so many people from this kind but have to tell you the opposite thing, unfortunatelly, because self esteem is not just for success - it's about appreciating it - and the parents of every child are those who had to learn him/her to appreciate what they have achieved.
About the subconscious thing ... well ... love is about emotion and we make stupid things when we are in this condition. The brain tells you what it things but the heart won't listen. If you vanquish love to your mind then you have lost its magic.
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