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| Thread: Bixies low fantasy Homm6 |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · NEXT» |
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted August 14, 2008 07:14 PM |
bonus applied by GenieLord on 07 Sep 2008. |
Edited by bixie at 10:36, 19 Jul 2009.
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Bixies low fantasy Homm6
now before you all decide to chop my testicles off and flay me away from your precious heroes 6 ideas, I just want to say that the series has become rather repeatative. Ok, so you might have a new storyline, and your stronghold might have a cyclops instead of a behemoth at the top, or your elves might decide to wear a little blue, but most of the time the heroes series has been stuck in the quagmire of high fantasy, too scared to come out for fear of the D&D players ranting over how it completely disrupts their carefully managed system. I thought that with the management shifting to ubisoft that they might decide to experiment with it. No, they pushed its head further into the quagmire and left it drowning under the weight of its own D&D infested piss!
I know this might be a bit of a rant for a Homm6 proposal, but its something that has been niggling at me for a while. the Homm series shows great potential for a low fantasy game, even in the name "Heroes of MIGHT and MAGIC". for those of you who don't know what low fantasy is, it is essentially humanity and magic. so, here it is.
Lore
Its a world where two people live, the humans live by day, the spirits rule the night. the two need each other and live in a mutual relationship, the spirits need the humans offerings, and the humans need the spirits magic in order to survive. Its is also a world of nations and conquest. But it is fought on many different fronts. Whilst the humans of a nation will fight by day, the spirits of the same nation will fight by night. The nations of the world are the Jangsin of the eastern mountains, the Norns of the northern wastes, the Asrin of the central desert, the Numador of the southern jungles and the Carthans of the western coast.
The land of the spirits is one of dreams and on nightmares. The Spirits live off and produce magic, enabling them to change their appearance and create illusions, even to use the raw power of nature. there have been many tales of greedy human rulers trying to cheat the spirits, only to find themselves lost and broken.
The land of the humans is one of glory and hardship. The humans live of their might of will and muscle, enabling them to change the landscape around them as they erect and demolish cities. there have been many tales of greedy spirit rulers trying to best the humans, only to find themselves defeated and shamed.
Game
In game terms, you will essentially control two towns that change depending on the time of day. By day, you will control the human town, and gain access to human soldiers and creatures such at mammoths, dinosaurs, elephants, tigers and lions. By night, you will control the spirit town, who will have access to spirit creatures like Kappa, Medusa, elves, Djinni, Visna and so on.
With this in mind, there will be two heroes in order for it to be effective, possibly might hero to control the human forces and a magic hero to control the spirit forces. That doesn't limit might to one and magic to the other, and so they could have a special gate that allows them to switch places with each other, as well as keep their troops.
This also means that the two armies could collide. the conflict is at night, then the spirit army gets a boost to their initative. if it is in the day, then the human army gets that boost. Both armies also get two different types of unit that can be used as a defense against the opposing armies. the humans get Banishers, who are more effective against spirit creatures, Spirits get Tricksters, who are more effective against human creatures.
Ok, so lets start with the factions
The Jangsin
United by: Honour
the Jangsin live in the mountains and valleys to the easy. They are a proud people, and their lands are filled with wonderful creatures and cultures. the spirits of the lands are varied and powerful, often the souls of those who died honourably.
the Jangsin humans are a honourbond group of warriors, and their Shoguns make good use of that. Each warrior, from the lowliest Ashigaru to the mightiest samurai, follows a strict code of honour, if it is broken, then they must face decimation.
the jangsin spirits are a deceptive and tricky group, leading to their Nurarihyon becoming a very dangerous hero. each spirit can be changed and transformed, called back by their contract to their leaders.
humans
hero: shogun
special skill: Bushido
1.Agumer-> Ashigaru/ Natsu Agumer (peasants)
2.Oban-> Kasuka/ Yuyan archer (ranged unit)
3.Panda-> war panda/ giant panda (large creature, powerful, can become drunk)
4.ronin-> Samurai/ traveller ronin (powerful, close quarters unit)
5.Monk-> Caolin monk/ Dragon monk (banisher unit)
6.Rockteer-> Pyrotechnic/ Kakubi (horseborn ranged unit, explosives)
7.Portable shrine-> War shrine/ great shrine (weak attacks, provides massive luck and morale boosts, conceals units)
Spirits
hero: Nurarihyon
special skill: soulmagic
lvl1 Namehage-> Knife Oni/ Club Oni (close combat pests)
lvl2 Kappa-> Skull taker/ Melody maker (demoralises enemy, provides morale, depending on upgrade)
lvl3 Yurei -> Yama uba/ Yukionna (ranged, spell caster unit)
4.Tengu -> Karasu Tengu/ Ubume tengu (flying close combat)
5.Blockhead-> Blockhead Ozeki/ Blockhead Yokozuna (Large close combat, good defense)
6.kitsune-> Ninetails/ Silvertongue (Large trickster, spell casters)
7.Kirin-> storm kirin/ wind kirin (Large flyers, spell casters)
grail creature: honour
the Norns
United by: Fury
The norns live in the frozen wastes in the north, eking out a living on hunting and fighting. they are a savage people, but one of great storytelling and drinking, with spirits of great strength.
The Norn humans are a strong and powerful people, who live for battle. Thanes learn this quickly, as they use their peoples blood lust to gain the advantage in battle.
The norn spirits are strongly linked with nature, from the tiniest fae to the mightiest gaint. the Valkyries will call nature to the battle, and charge the enemy, causing the very land itself to rise in anger.
Creatures
humans
hero: Thane
special skill: blood thirst
lvl1 bondsman (ranged unit)
lvl2 Huskarls (strong melee unit, average stats)
lvl3 Sabertooth (Large aggressive unit)
lvl4 beserker (strong aggressive unit, beserker fury)
lvl5 druid (banisher unit, spell caster)
lvl6 Jarls (Large cavalry unit, melee)
lvl7 Mammoths (large strong melee unit, seige weapon)
spirits
hero: Valkyries
special skill: natures fury
lvl1 Fairy (small pest)
lvl2 Dwarf (defensive unit)
lvl3 elf (ranged unit, skewering shot)
lvl4 Troll (large, regeneration)
lvl5 firbolg (trickster, spell caster)
lvl6 Giant (large melee unit)
lvl7 Fenris wolf (Large aggressive unit, devour units)
grail creature: fury
the Asrin
United by: Guile
The Asrin live in the sweltering desert in the centre, building magnificent cities. They are a mighty empire, stretching all across the central desert, with spirits drawn from many different backgrounds.
the Asrin humans are a diverse people, from the noble Cataphracts of the northern province, to the Hashshashin of the dark city streets. each Caliph must make good use of their men in order to win.
the Asrin spirits are more uniform than their people, however no less deadly. their Jadugars are able to summon reinforcements onto the battlefield, constantly bolstering their forces.
Humans
hero: Caliph
Special skill: Politics
lvl1: War hounds (small aggressive units)
lvl2: longbowman (ranged units)
lvl3: grenadiers (close combat, explosives)
lvl4: Yogi (banisher unit, spell caster)
lvl5: outriders (large light cavalry archers)
lvl6: Cataphract (large heavy cavalry on camels)
lvl7: War elephant (large unit, transports small units)
Spirits
Hero: Jadugars
special skill: mage craft
lvl1: Chamrush (small unit, explodes when beaten)
lvl2: Hanuman (ranged unit)
lvl3: Marid (Spellcaster unit)
lvl4: Pariaka (ranged unit, switches places to move)
lvl5: Djinni (large flying spellcaster unit)
lvl6: Rakshasa (Large aggressive units)
lvl7: Sphinx (Large flying trickster unit, summon whirlwinds)
Grail creature: Guile
the Numador
United by: Dread
The Numador live in the dense jungle of the south, taming huge beasts of the rainforest. they are a reclusive people, wishing to be left allow, and thus their spirits reflect this homeland link.
The Numador humans are a scant but vengeance bound people, making a living out of rearing their dinosaurs in piece. The cheiftans will put grudges onto their enemies, making their troops attack more viciously.
The Numador spirits are a strange and eriee group, responsible for ill omens. The witchdoctors put hexes on enemies, weakening their resolve, whilst the spirits fly in and finish the job.
Human
hero: cheiftan
special skill: Guerilla warfare
lvl1: tribesman (ranged unit)
lvl2: raptor (Close combat unit)
lvl3: eagle warrior (close combat unit)
lvl4: pterosaur (large flyer unit)
lvl5: Shaman (banisher unit)
lvl6: Triceratop transport (large close combat unit, transports)
lvl7: T-rex (large aggressive unit, devours)
spirit
hero: witch doctor
special skill: Voodun arts
lvl1: Zombie (undead unit)
lvl2: Petro (small ranged unit)
lvl3: Puca (small spellcaster unit)
lvl4: Bunyips (large close combat unit)
lvl5: Visna (large spell caster unit, indominable)
lvl6: Shape shifter (trickster unit, shape shift)
lvl7: Coutl (large flyer, shimmer)
grail creature: Dread
the Carthans
united by Zeal
the Carthans live on the western coasts, adapting to a life of fishing and seamanship. They are a ambitious people, wishing to expand, and their spirits reflect this human emotion.
the Carthan humans are a meritocratic people, bound by the ideal to achieve and prosper. The Archons make good use of this, training their troops to achieve.
The Carthan spirits are a gruesome group, a mixture of human and animal features mostly. the Oracles gift their minions with treasures, improving their strength and fury.
humans
Hero: Archons
spcial skill: training
lvl1: Conscript (peasant)
lvl2: Slinger (ranged unit)
Lvl3: Hoplite (close combat unit)
Lvl4: Priest (banisher unit)
Lvl5: Preatorian gaurd (close combat unit, high defense)
Lvl6: Contarius (large close combat unit, cavalry)
Lvl7: Juggernaut (large close combat chariot unit, unstoppable)
Spirits
Hero: oracles
special skill: artificer
1.troglodyte (small close combat unit)
2.Satyr (ranged unit)
3.Harpy (flying unit)
4.Minotaur (close combat unit)
5:Medusa (large spell caster unit)
6:cyclops (large close combat unit)
7:Chimera (large ranged/close combat unit, breath weapon)
grail creature: Zeal
expansion: the drums of freedom
new race (thanks to Jiriki9)
The Tarakee
The Tarakee live in the wide steppes of the south east, freely traveling through this beautiful wild lands. They live almost like nomads, and are rather nature-bound. they are often caught in the crossfire between their three neighbours, the Numador (who they were a part of previously), the Jangsin and the Asrin.
The Tarakee humans feel a strong bound to nature, although (or perhaps because of) they are mainly living by hunting and gathering, not planting crops or something like that. In times of war, they are vengeful and fierce, hunting down their enemies like prey.
The Tarakee spirit are very versatile, some extremely friendly and calm, others simply hungry for battle and some vile and wicked. the medicine men are intent on keeping the spirits alive and safe, and construct warding totems in order to do so.
Humans:
Hero: Sachem/Chief
Racial: ?
Tier 1: Hunter (ranged unit)
Tier 2: ?
Tier 3: Tribe Warrior
Tier 4: Pathfinder
Tier 5: Mounted Hunter
Tier 6: ?
Tier 7: Mastodon rider
Spirits:
Hero: Medicine Man
Racial: Totem magic
Tier 1: Bohpoli (small ranged creature)
Tier 2: Cetan (Flying unit)
Tier 3: Wendigo (melee, strong aginst humans)
Tier 4: Tlahuelpuchi (Vampiric unit, storng agaisnt humans)
Tier 5: Chepi (Incorporeal flying melee unit)
Tier 6: Thunderbird (Large flyer unit)
Tier 7: A seene ki wakw (large melee creature)
united by: hope
expansion 2: the claws of destiny
new race
the Ruska
the Ruska are a stoic and powerful people, ancient enemies of the norns, the Jangsin and the Asrin. coming from the tundra of north east, their sole mission is expansion of their empire, at any cost.
the Ruska humans are reliant on their own belief in themselves and their empire. They have been experimenting with anti-spirit technology, and are more than capable of banishing spirits back to the other world.
the Ruska spirits are reliant on their powerful trickster abilities, giving bonuses to every spirit still alive. the Witches make sure that delusions and illusions keep their people safe from harm.
Humans
hero: boyar
racial skill: anti-magic
lvl1: Pikemen
lvl2: huntsmen
lvl3: ???
lvl4: ???
lvl5: Kosak horsemen
lvl6: Widowmaker (shooter, garunteed to kill)
lvl7: ???
spirit
hero: witch
racial skill: illusion
lvl1: ???
lvl2: Poleviks
lvl3: Rusalkas
lvl4: ???
lvl5: werewolf
lvl6: ???
lvl7: vampires
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Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted August 15, 2008 04:47 PM |
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I do not dislike your idea. It would be something new and innovative, allthough I personally really like high fantasy. But your idea sounds great - to my opinion^^
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted August 15, 2008 06:55 PM |
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thanks!
so far, only good comments!
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Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
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Asheera
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
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posted August 16, 2008 06:54 PM |
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Quote:
so far, only good comments!
I refrained from posting since it's a bad comment, but you're asking for it!
Ok, your ideas are interesting and original, but I like high fantasy, so I wouldn't want to see this in HoMM 6
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del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
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posted August 16, 2008 07:32 PM |
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Heroes is and needs to be a "days, weeks, months"-type of game. It is all about large scale warfare hiding under the rock we call "swords and shields".
By allowing to swap someting like that, why not make it several towns instead? I mean, H1 had 4 factions. Then H2 came along with 6 factions, more tactic and variation came along.
Then H3 jumps in with 8 towns(9 with expansion), and we got a even bigger game. The problem is that there was some minor balance flaws that we start cursing over when its on us again the 1000th time.
H4 then came out and almost had moved away from the previus games, it had fewer factions then the last game(and earlyer it had only increased), some factions was not cool looking anymore either.
But the story progressed in a nice manner.
Suddenly H5 jumps out of the bushes and drags on 6 factions and dares not to move away and be bigger than H4, but suddenly we got 2 lousy expansions that could have been alot better executed that changes it.
If you want to se what i am pointing at, lets take a logical look at this:
4 6 8(+1=9) 6 6(+1=7 +1=8), this does not follow the increaseing pattern.
By altering the town selection system that much, we might aswell create a entire new francise on it and call it "Eclipse: Changing in the World".
But it might carry the Heroes name because that sells and earns money to Ubisoft.
By logic, H6 should have alteast 14 factions(4 6 8 10 12 14). This is done by actually creating alot of towns, half of them does not even have to fit in the grand scheme of the main plot. The heroes can suddenly be jumped on and is forced to use another type of armie somewhere in the plot.
Besides there is alot of mythologies to pull creatures and towns from anyway, i guess you could make 5-9 factions based on Japanes mythology alone.
So i do not like this idea
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Asheera
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
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posted August 16, 2008 08:28 PM |
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Quote:
By logic, H6 should have alteast 14 factions(4 6 8 10 12 14)
Come on, get real. 14 factions will be an utter failure if you ask me.
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted August 16, 2008 08:43 PM |
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Quote:
quote:
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By logic, H6 should have alteast 14 factions(4 6 8 10 12 14)
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Come on, get real. 14 factions will be an utter failure if you ask me.
I personally would like to have many factions, but I think: it's just unrealistic AND bixie's idea is still good, but it could indeed have more factions - what about a forest folk, a sea folk, an indian-like folk maybe, with indian spirits...
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Asheera
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
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posted August 16, 2008 08:47 PM |
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I don't think more than 8-9 factions will be a success though (in balancing and uniqueness)
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted August 16, 2008 08:53 PM |
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Well, people have different opinions, I would think 10-12 factions better...I like a big choice and difference, you now - but of course the official HOMMs will certainly not have much more than 8 factions, or so I fear^^
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted August 16, 2008 09:05 PM |
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I'm in favour of 10 Basic Factions + 2-3 extra Expansion Factions.
@ Asheera: Uniqueness, Asheera?
These twelve-Thriteen Faction would be:
Basically:
Keep/Haven (Good Humans)
Glade (High Elves)
Dungeon (Troglodytes)
Necropolis (Self-Explaning)
Inferno (Ditto)
Mine (Dwarves)
Sactuary (Nagae)
Sactum (Dragon Knights)
Academy (Wizards)
Stronghold (Orcs)
+ Certainly:
Grove (Half-Elves and Feral Animals...or Maybe Dark-Elves)
Fortress (Swamp Creatures, Lizards or Goblins/Gremlins (maybe both))
+ possibly
Hive (Insectoids)
Bastion (Free Cities)
University (Gnomes + Mechanoids)
Utopia (Dragonoids)
Asylum (Felines)
Shrine (Evil Human Cultists)
There are enough Ideas, Mythological Creatures, etc... IMO. No problme with that.
@ Bixie: I, just as Asheera prefer High Fantasy/Mythology in HoMM, but I first want to know more before I give my opinion. I might (not entirely certain) coment after you finish you line-ups (the part that interests me the most). It's unorthodox to make a low-fantasy HoMM, but i havenot problems with it.
Good Luck.
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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Asheera
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
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posted August 16, 2008 09:07 PM |
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@Lex: I was talking about uniqueness in abilities, skills and specialties, not creatures
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted August 16, 2008 09:13 PM |
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Quote:
@Lex: I was talking about uniqueness in abilities, skills and specialties, not creatures
That should work as well, as LONG (and only as long) we only have ONE hero class.
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
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posted August 16, 2008 09:24 PM |
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Quote:
+ 2-3 extra Expansion Factions.
What is so freaking special about expansions anyway? You are totaly against many factions in the orginal, but you are ok with 9999 added factions trough expansions. So long the teams work properly the factions will be more than uniqe and fitting themself.
H5 had many big bugs and stuff when it was let out to the public, that means the script team did not work enogh.
The engine in itself is ridiculessy unstable to me, it keeps bugging and it even consumes more memory upon autosave after each finished turn meaning it would require higher specs that needed unless you turn of autosave. Freaking heck, a save is jsut saving the current information and it goes over the limit when it does so?! I blame the script team, it could easly been doen better.
H5 lacks a proper decent background, they even posted it to avoid heavy trouble, and yet its filled with bad clishes. Massive amount of uneeded text is randomly placed at spots too.
Besides, its even influenced by american stuff. In TotE the arabian faction(academy) is corrupted and causes destruction. And it starts with that.
Later this speards over to the Red haven.
Conclution: If its executed well, a game can easly have 29 factions. That means the team knew the word balance and worked by it.
PS: 3D is starting to ruin games
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Yann
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 16, 2008 10:54 PM |
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Quote:
Conclution: If its executed well, a game can easly have 29 factions. That means the team knew the word balance and worked by it.
PS: 3D is starting to ruin games
I completely agree - maybe not 29 factions - but I think that in an effort to compete in today's big time PC gaming market (with games that have high-def 3-d graphics, stellar music scores, awe-inspiring special effects, etc.), many features in gameplay are overlooked which results in lackluster quality.
Actually, the stellar scores can continue developing...but less emphasis on 3D High-Def stuff.
Heroes V for example  .
Bring back the Heroes III glory .
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted August 17, 2008 02:20 AM |
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I don't see anything wrong with more than 8-9 faction, I mean, I'm in the process of drawing up 13 factions
Basic:
Haven (humans)
Sylvan (elves)
Mountain (dwarves)
Academy (wizards)
Stronghold (orcs)
Necropolis (undead)
Inferno (demons)
Dungeon (dark elves)
Expansion?
Rampart (lizardmen)
Cavern (troglodytes)
Oasis (egyptian)
Factory (gnomes)
Temple (nagas)
Of course, this isn't to say that they would all work well, but thus far I'm only having a little trouble coming up with abilities for some units, although some positions have a H3/H4 style setup of two different bases with only one upgrade each, rather than the H5 style of one creature with two alternate upgrades.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted August 17, 2008 09:01 AM |
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Well, I completely disagree with a lot of the above, I would rather see a game with 6 (ok, that's a bit on the low side) or 8 factions that are well developed than 12 or 14 factions that don't really differ too much for each other.
I personally think Nival deserves huge credit for making each faction unique by adding racial skills for all factions, and if some of them could need tweaking and polishing - and they could - it's still a very important step in the direction of making the difference between factions not only a matter of different skins on the units.
The next step would be to add more variation within each faction, which means alternative Hero classes to offer variation in gamestyle. When that is done, the game will really offer a great range of strategical options compared to previous chapters of the game!
And calling TotE a poor expansion is pretty vain in my oppinion. TotE offered not only a new faction, it offered effectively a brand new game. And yes, original H5 went gold WAY too early, but post TotE, it does play very well with remarkably few bugs.
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What will happen now?
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Asheera
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
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posted August 17, 2008 01:24 PM |
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I completely agree with Alc. You all think about creatures and that's it, but if we have a lot of factions there is a very high possibility that there will be less uniqueness in creature abilities, town specials, hero specialties... basically less uniqueness overall.
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted August 17, 2008 06:24 PM |
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No, I don't agree with you two, it's not ONLY about creatures. It would definitely be harder to create 12 unique factions than 8 but I think it can be done. And when it's done, the result would be better, I think.
I agree that variation in factions would be cool, too, butI still do nit see, why there shouldn't be more than 8 factions...
And I agree with you, alc, that TotE is a good expansion. On the whole, i think heroes V was, at least with the expansions, MUCH better than heroes 4 and kind of equal to heroes 3...
...but this is not, what this thread should be about, is it. We are discussing one point of bixies version, but it's not the BIG difference of his idea, is it?
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted August 17, 2008 11:13 PM |
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Quote:
I completely agree with Alc. You all think about creatures and that's it, but if we have a lot of factions there is a very high possibility that there will be less uniqueness in creature abilities, town specials, hero specialties... basically less uniqueness overall.
Well I've personally never been a fan of hero specialties (admittedly, I haven't actually played H5) because they seem unnecessarily limiting (why can't a dwarf create artifacts, an elf train his troops, or a necromancer learn runic magic). I personally feel a faction's uniqueness should come from its troops and towns, not its heroes.
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razor5
Famous Hero
Freezing...
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posted August 18, 2008 08:26 AM |
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Edited by razor5 at 08:28, 18 Aug 2008.
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Hey the factions must be basic 8(Inferno,Necropolis,Haven,Sylvan,Dungeon,Academy,Stronghold and Fortress) and 2 from expansions:Shirne-(Heretics,Dark Priests,Evil Sorcerers,Humans inhabitted by demons)
and the idea with Shrine was Lexxan's
And the faction for the 2nd expansion should be...well,I don't know,but a combination between Lizardmen,Gnomes and`Troglodytes is really good
and sry for this comment,it was only my idea with the factions in Heroes 6 (and is a few offtopic)
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