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blizzardboy
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posted January 30, 2011 02:12 PM |
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The US didn't take Cuba from Spain. Cuba took Cuba from Spain. Then the US Navy came in and the Spanish Navy came to intercept, but their wooden-clad ships fell apart from termites and sunk into the ocean before the US had the chance to save them from drowning.
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kodial79
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posted January 30, 2011 04:29 PM |
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Edited by kodial79 at 16:31, 30 Jan 2011.
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Quote:
The US didn't take Cuba from Spain. Cuba took Cuba from Spain. Then the US Navy came in and the Spanish Navy came to intercept, but their wooden-clad ships fell apart from termites and sunk into the ocean before the US had the chance to save them from drowning.
Noop! US took Cuba from Spain, as this so called "independence" that they granted them, existed only on paper. Besides, it was one of the terms in their agreement for Cuban independence: "We are the boss, we do what the hell we want, and you Cubans can STFU!" Well, they did not actually say it like that, but you get the point. Since then and for a long time, US kept intervening on Cuban affairs as they pleased and establishing puppet governors to do their bidding. This is how they took Guantanamo Base anyway.
Oh and uh, as far as I recall, if one ship is famous for sinking in the American-Spanish war, that was an American one, the USS Maine. Probably it was made of wood and fell apart from the termites, like you said. 
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blizzardboy
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posted January 30, 2011 05:33 PM |
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No. Cuba had wanted independence for quite some time. It was being held together by the wealthy Spanish aristocrats and by troops native to Spain that were stationed there. There had already been bloody revolts prior to the turn of the century that had failed. Jose Marti and his group of revolutionaries were key in putting together a more effective revolution in 1895 (albeit it happened premature to their plans). The US was the obvious place that they did a lot of lobbying for support since there was economic interest in having an independent Cuba and the US was already openly hostile towards European colonies in the Americas (per the Monroe doctrine). With a combination of lobbying and the chaos with the USS Maine the US did eventually get involved, and any hope of Spain maintaining their stranglehold in Cuba was at that point completely impossible and Cuba got their independence, which really was overdue by many generations.
Anyway, in summary, the US didn't take Cuba from Spain. Cuba took Cuba from Spain after 3 years of fighting and then eventually US intervention. Saying that the US took Cuba from Spain is like saying that France took the American colonies from Great Britain. They just showed up later and sealed the deal.
I don't know how the politics that ensued afterward has anything to do with the Cuban war for independence against Spain. It was very obviously a war of Cuba vs Spain. And 'puppet' is a grossly overused word these days anyway. Just because you push for a regime that is in your best interests doesn't automatically make it a puppet government that is being pulled by the strings. A puppet government is when you physically install a government with a cabinet of your select choice and make sure that it always does your bidding. Vichy France and Manchuko were puppet governments. If you're going to also include any government that has been influenced by an outside government, then probably 99% of countries that have ever existed were supposedly 'puppet governments'.
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kodial79
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posted January 30, 2011 06:15 PM |
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Quote:
And 'puppet' is a grossly overused word these days anyway. Just because you push for a regime that is in your best interests doesn't automatically make it a puppet government that is being pulled by the strings. A puppet government is when you physically install a government with a cabinet of your select choice and make sure that it always does your bidding. Vichy France and Manchuko were puppet governments. If you're going to also include any government that has been influenced by an outside government, then probably 99% of countries that have ever existed were supposedly 'puppet governments'.
As Wikipedia says, and I quote "Under Cuba's new constitution, the U.S. retained the right to intervene in Cuban affairs and to supervise its finances and foreign relations. ... The U.S. intervened by occupying Cuba and named Charles Edward Magoon as Governor for three years. Cuban historians have attributed Magoon's governorship as having introduced political and social corruption."
Some independence they gave them! If that's not a puppet government, then I don't know what is. And from there on, it goes on telling us about other times where US pimped Cuba in the future, until Castro came along. And as you know, Wikipedia cites only the hard, undisputable facts. Whoever knows just how many give's n' take's did US have with the notorious Batista.
Now, if you wanna diminish the only good amongst all evils, that USA did (by fighting the Spanish off) in that forsaken history, go ahead. 
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blizzardboy
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posted January 30, 2011 06:28 PM |
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Sorry, at what point were we arguing over whether it was a good deed or not? I was talking about the ridiculous notion that "USA took Cuba from Spain".
And yeah Cuba was an underling of sorts, but hardly a full-throttle puppet regime. . There weren't Cubans being shipped off to fight WW1 with America or being redistributed around the county. It was a semi-autonomy, and the right to override policy was a protection put in place; it wasn't constantly used.
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kodial79
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posted January 30, 2011 06:35 PM |
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Edited by kodial79 at 18:36, 30 Jan 2011.
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Sorry, at what point were we arguing over whether it was a good deed or not? I was talking about the ridiculous notion that "USA took Cuba from Spain".
And yeah Cuba was an underling of sorts, but hardly a full-throttle puppet regime. . There weren't Cubans being shipped off to fight WW1 with America or being redistributed around the county. It was a semi-autonomy, and the right to override policy was a protection put in place; it wasn't constantly used.
Ah, isn't the thread about wether USA is evil? One could argue too, that USA did use Cuba in WW1 and WW2. Though that's just purely hypothetical. Semi-autonomy by the way, is very kind way of putting it. I would rather say: they were bullying them.
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gnomes2169
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posted January 30, 2011 07:26 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
I like living in a country where I can make friends with people from the Balkans and Europe
You'd probably like it even more if it had an educational system that taught you that the Balkans are in Europe. 
They do, but I have no skillz in geography. I could tell you that Russia is part of both Asia and Europe (Thus being called Eurasia) and that England is an island that contains Scotland, but beyond that my knowledge of European geography dies...
Back to the thread...
Quote:
No, he is talking about their unconditional love of not being objective AND respecting their own morals.
You support dictators, you go at war towards random nations, don't plan it properly, and make more terrorists.
Look at Egypt: 50 years of dictatorship, but snow didn't really hit the fan until recently, and what are they saying? Instead of saying: "We will support whoever wins", which is what you are actually doing, but instead you are being despicable and saying: "We support both the dictator and people who are revolting against him.". This is a oxymoron.
You either support people, do not support people, or don't care about it.
Last time I checked, US citizens have a moral on being honest, yes?
Last I checked, yes. I and everyone I know does value and pride honesty. This might not be what the politicians support unfortunately...
And I'd rather hear what Moonlith meant from Moonlith. (Please don't speak for people.)
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JoonasTo
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posted January 30, 2011 09:04 PM |
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They do, but I have no skillz in geography. I could tell you that Russia is part of both Asia and Europe (Thus being called Eurasia) and that EnglandBritain is an island that contains Scotland , England and Wales, but beyond that my knowledge of European geography dies...
Corrected for you.
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JollyJoker
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posted January 30, 2011 09:18 PM |
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Oh dear.
Didn't you forget the part of Britain called Northern Ireland?
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JoonasTo
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posted January 30, 2011 09:29 PM |
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It's not part of Britain, only Great Britain. 
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JollyJoker
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posted January 30, 2011 10:13 PM |
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JoonasTo
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posted January 30, 2011 10:15 PM |
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JollyJoker
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posted January 30, 2011 10:45 PM |
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Oh, yes, "Corrected for you" was a lecture.
But a lwecture should be conclusive, shouldn't it?
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JoonasTo
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posted January 30, 2011 10:59 PM |
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It was a sudden burst of helpfullness.
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blizzardboy
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posted January 30, 2011 11:12 PM |
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Quote:
Ah, isn't the thread about wether USA is evil? One could argue too, that USA did use Cuba in WW1 and WW2. Though that's just purely hypothetical. Semi-autonomy by the way, is very kind way of putting it. I would rather say: they were bullying them.
Granted, there's a reason the turn of the century in American history is often termed the "Age of Imperialism". Cuba's situation after its independence from Spain was far from ideal, and definitely wasn't what the intellectual body of revolutionary leaders wanted for the country. The Cuban leadership was upset when America finally got involved in 1898 because they knew it would come at a price, but since the war was a stalemate, it was a blessing also. Either way though, it's generally regarded as a huge step up from existing under Spain. They had almost zero economic freedom beforehand and during the war for independence in 1895 the Spanish pioneered the first modern concentration camps as a means of containing the population; so they were clearly quite resolute in keeping the island.
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shyranis
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posted February 02, 2011 09:00 AM |
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Edited by shyranis at 09:02, 02 Feb 2011.
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I always found it interesting how the US government approved Castro's overthrowing of the former Dictator's government at first, it's like they were trying to just maintain an image of allowing Cuban independence while attempting to just get another puppet and keep the status quo.
Still, Cuba got a better deal than Hawaii.
None of this makes America evil, just sometimes horribly misguided (usually by corrupt people in charge, if an American leader is evil it does not make the American people evil). Most countries can rightfully claim such things of themselves too.
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Anil
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posted June 14, 2016 05:31 PM |
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USA is evil because USA support Islam.
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Kayna
Supreme Hero
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posted June 14, 2016 05:41 PM |
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Anil said:
USA is evil because USA support Islam.
Ironic twist alert! Ironic twist alert! ooohhhhh!!! It's ironic!!!!!!!!!
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EnergyZ
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posted June 14, 2016 05:46 PM |
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Anil said:
USA is evil because USA support Islam.
My, what a laugh. Could you explain exactly why do you think that? 'Cause I can't take this comment seriously.
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Anil
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posted June 14, 2016 06:07 PM |
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Edited by Anil at 18:10, 14 Jun 2016.
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Kayna said:
Anil said:
USA is evil because USA support Islam.
Ironic twist alert! Ironic twist alert! ooohhhhh!!! It's ironic!!!!!!!!!
This is not ironic this is fact. Usa supported Taliban, islamic groups in Syria, vahhabies, etc. isn't it? And USA fighted relatively seculer Muslim countries (Lybia, Syria)
My country is more improved than some Western European Countries Once upon a time. Islam and USA ruined my country.
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This thread is pages long: 
