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JapanGamer
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posted October 24, 2008 11:33 PM |
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I'm not trying to convert people, I'm trying to find out if people actually have an excuse for eating which doesn't have a valid trump logic over it. So far No ones said anything that justifies eating killed animals 100%
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mvassilev
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posted October 24, 2008 11:42 PM |
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TheDeath:
First, such a scenario is extremely unrealistic. If a farmer discovers a blacksmith, then they will trade and make each other better off. The blacksmith isn't going to say, "No, there's no way I'm trading with you!" because then he'd just be shooting himself in the foot. Same with the separate nation.
Second, we've already discussed this. It would create a bad precedent. "If I can enslave them, that why can't I enslave other humans?" "I don't know, okay, then, let's do it!" Society isn't flexible enough to allow that. It's a complicated thing.
Third, slavery often ultimately results in more costs than benefits. Just ask the French what happened in Haiti.
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TitaniumAlloy
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posted October 25, 2008 02:47 AM |
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Quote:
I'm not trying to convert people, I'm trying to find out if people actually have an excuse for eating which doesn't have a valid trump logic over it. So far No ones said anything that justifies eating killed animals 100%
Well you can't really justify anything 100%.
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JapanGamer
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posted October 25, 2008 02:53 AM |
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I hate to say it but the only justification I've heard worth mentioning came out of my own mouth. "I have no choice but to eat meat or to go hungry. Not many people with internet are without choices though. It doesn't justify the majority of animal eaters.
The rest of the justifications like its natural, and its a part of history dont even begin to justify killing innocent animals..
And again, to the plant lovers, I wish we could get by without them, but they grow into what we call food and they show no pain or fear like animals do. We have no choice but to die. If we ate just meat we would die, we need wheats, sprouts, potatoes, peanuts, and all of these vegetablaes and fruits to survive, rice, ect.
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TitaniumAlloy
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posted October 25, 2008 03:23 AM |
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To live a healthy vegetarian life without compromise you would need supplements in order to achieve your full nutritional potential.
The same goes for carnivores, you would need vitamin supplements etc, but it is the same.
The question of being vegetarian raises the question of why stop there? If you disapprove of animals being farmed and contained, then milk, cheese, eggs and other animal products must also be boycotted as with vegans. This definitely rules out alot of protein etc. that would be vital especially for sportsmen and the like.
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Nikita
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posted October 25, 2008 03:27 AM |
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Stop eating animals!!!Just go to the shop and buy some meat or chicken.
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JapanGamer
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posted October 25, 2008 03:35 AM |
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I would eat dairy, and jello, and yogurt, which is a living bactiria or something, and jello is hoof shavings and other additives. There is a ton vegetarians can eat. I would eat baby chichkens though, eggs...
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TitaniumAlloy
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posted October 25, 2008 03:45 AM |
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Then doesn't that kind of defeat the point of being vegetarian?
If you're still killing things, but you're not even preventing the abuse and exploitation of animals?
and they haven't used hooves as an ingredient in jello since the turn of the 20th century 
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JapanGamer
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posted October 25, 2008 03:54 AM |
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How does milking a cow kill it?
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Nikita
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posted October 25, 2008 04:10 AM |
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Jello is moslty gelatine,which is made from protein.so basically u r eating a jelled animal.
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TitaniumAlloy
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posted October 25, 2008 04:15 AM |
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Quote:
How does milking a cow kill it?
The two main arguments (IMO) that you have presented are that we should not eat animals because it is killing, and also it requires the cultivation and exploitation of animals en masse which I believe is a valid point.
However if you are still going to kill other living things to eat, such as plants etc. then that defeats the first point.
The second that we should not keep animals because it is unnatural/leads to spread of diseases or whatever... if you are keeping animals for milk and cheese and eggs etc then that defeats the second point.
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JapanGamer
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posted October 25, 2008 04:52 AM |
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Cows, for instance, I never said anything about not holding them, they have no will they just eat grass and moo. They dont care if we milk them, infact, they need to be milked if I'm not mistaken, else they have problems.
And we have no choice right now but to eat plants. Without plants we die. No choice but to die a horrible death.
I'm against holding animals in tight cages though, especially the chickens. They have it worst, caged in with eachother in tiny cages with their BEAKS cut off so they cant peck eachother to death.
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TitaniumAlloy
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posted October 25, 2008 06:21 AM |
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This is not true, we can survive without plants by eating supplements.
We need to eat one or the other, and we are made as omnivores to function best when we eat both.
The problems with holding animals such as cows are, as you said, the problems of viruses etc. but also others such as methane contributing to the greenhouse effect etc.
If you continue to keep animals for reasons other than simply eating their meet this problem is not eliminated.
I just think it's hypocritical to not eat chicken meat because of the cruel treatment of chickens yet it's fine to eat their eggs... 
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JapanGamer
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posted October 25, 2008 05:34 PM |
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Show me some supplements where it doesn't involve eating colonies of bacterias or any living thing and if you mean pills, we cant live on pills. I have no problem with eating plants, and drinking milk, I have a problem with eating eggs and animals.
Did you know all of the 4 basic food groups include plants and animals? Grains are from plants. We can kick the animals off this food pyramid but not vegetables. And besides, plants don't show pain and I really doubt they have brains enough to interpret it.
Not going religious or anything but, well maybe I am just using it for an example, the garden of Eden had fruits and vegetables, not killing animals. If you want to go into why eating fruits and vegetables is ok, or wrong, come to me with some evidence that its wrong and I'll listen, but I don't have to justify eating a tomato just because you say I should sorry :/
I looked for supplements and found nothing that wasn't a pill, or didn't include vegetables.. Nice try.
Oh, and about the holding cows, well, they don't have to hold 1000000s of cows in tight cages for milk alone. I know it doesn't say it on the internet, until now, but cows according to my old anthropology teacher are derived by genetic engineering. Heck, they are so unfit for self survival they cant get on their own 4 feet if tipped lol. Believe me when I say, they would have it made if we humans did what we could for them and milked them too.
And a little something from the internet;
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If a cow doesn't get milked for a few days what happens to her?
The milk in the cow's utter will set and she will encouter much pain. She will become very tender there and very sore. she will face much pain and suffering. Her utter will be very heavy and will become streched out.
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TheDeath
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posted October 25, 2008 05:56 PM |
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Quote:
First, such a scenario is extremely unrealistic. If a farmer discovers a blacksmith, then they will trade and make each other better off. The blacksmith isn't going to say, "No, there's no way I'm trading with you!" because then he'd just be shooting himself in the foot. Same with the separate nation.
Doesn't matter whether it's unrealistic or not (and in fact it IS, because replace those people with animals and you'll see).
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Second, we've already discussed this. It would create a bad precedent. "If I can enslave them, that why can't I enslave other humans?" "I don't know, okay, then, let's do it!" Society isn't flexible enough to allow that. It's a complicated thing.
"If I can enslave/kill other creatures, why can't I do the same with humans, which are creatures too?"
your only argument is that "it's different" but then, those voodoo people were 'different' too (obviously). You draw the line subjectively where? Not a valid argument.
unless of course you use Nazi thinking, and I think it's pretty pointless to disagree with a Nazi -- worse, I might get shot
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mvassilev
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posted October 25, 2008 07:45 PM |
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Doesn't matter whether it's unrealistic or not (and in fact it IS, because replace those people with animals and you'll see).
Well, animals aren't people, are they? And, as you said earlier, animals don't have human intelligence and thus are incapable of willingly cooperating. Undoubtedly, if they did, it would be mutually beneficial.
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"If I can enslave/kill other creatures, why can't I do the same with humans, which are creatures too?"
If you look around, obviously people aren't making that connection, because there's a lot of "animal slavery", but no (legal) human slavery. So it's not that much of a danger.
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You draw the line subjectively where?
Where we can interact and cooperate and/or it would create negative consequences for the original group because of target confusion.
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TheDeath
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posted October 25, 2008 08:25 PM |
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Well, animals aren't people, are they? And, as you said earlier, animals don't have human intelligence and thus are incapable of willingly cooperating. Undoubtedly, if they did, it would be mutually beneficial.
I don't whether you actually read my posts or copy paste your answers from some pre-written text
What mutually beneficial cooperation? I already said in that example that they do not want to trade anything and just go on with their lives. So basically from your definition they're pretty much like animals.
and it doesn't matter what we call 'people' lol
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If you look around, obviously people aren't making that connection, because there's a lot of "animal slavery", but no (legal) human slavery. So it's not that much of a danger.
That is either because we are nazis or because simply, what you say has no basis (because after all, you used that excuse to say why we wouldn't enslave them).
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JapanGamer
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posted October 25, 2008 08:30 PM |
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OmG I was going to get a leather coat to be matrix style but I just watched a video so horrible, they actually showed an animal blink, with nO SKIN!!! Others they beat to death or suffocated.
Destroy humanity, the bad half.
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Darkshadow
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posted October 25, 2008 08:33 PM |
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Here we go again...
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JapanGamer
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posted October 25, 2008 08:34 PM |
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what stopped?
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This thread is pages long: 
