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| Thread: Pandora & Asheera |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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kainc
Famous Hero
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posted March 25, 2009 01:06 PM |
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@ Baklava
Yeah the picture were like a double edged sword. I understand that many people find it funny but for myself... well, I've worked as an instructor for handicapped people for two summers (summerjob like 3-4 years ago) and it really was amazing how they enjoyed life despite of their "condition". A found myself having deep respect for them for their inner strenght. But I also understand that you didn't want to offend anyone with that pic actually.
About Asheera
I have no knowledge about that "clash" happened, so I wont be posting any opinions about it. But the little time I've spend here, I've found Asheera very supportive and warm person. And I understand why she's, well as some has said, serious. Actually I don't think it's seriousness but actually "diplomatic behaviour"  For what I've read myself, Asheera didn't want to offend anyone, this is how I see it.
About humor
There's a thin line between what is offensive and what is funny. Some people like sarcastic humor, some don't understand it at all, and may offend. And I DO NOT SPEAK about Pan-Ash case here, but commonly. Hopefully we do understand that not everything is ment to be taken personally, but at the same time we do understand that an epic joke might be an epic insult for someone. But let's give each other the second change and not slay those who accidental insult us, and apologize afterwards. Let us dwell in peace 
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pandora
Honorable
Legendary Hero
The Chosen One
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posted March 25, 2009 02:30 PM |
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I have reversed the penalty in spite of what I've read here - I had decided later that night that speaking to Asheera about all of this is the way I should have gone - but after reading this all,I'm glad I didn't bother.
Its just delightful to read that everything that she does isn't appreciated - what was it I posted in the BB code guide thread again? - ah yes : Quote:
As for the QP, Asheera has been contributing new ideas and participating in just about every forum here at HC - she is certainly deserving of a "token of appreciation" for all of that.
But colour me shocked, as always all people see are the things they can complain about.
As for Mvass - you're right - it is dreadful that I'm only here to try to have fun with friends when time permits, or to deal with issues on the board that have been left on my plate. And of course you're absolutely right that that is all that i do here - nothing else.
In fact my whole existence is about using what free time I have to do unspeakable things that Mvass can vilify me for *rolls eyes*
Once again I get to deal with my fellows saying one thing in HQ and on HCm and then publicly joining in on the "Pan's so harsh, she's so mean!" where the adoring public can see them. Oh sorry Shadow - now it's me bringing it out in the open.
lol.. its just a joke. Call me whatever you want, but at least I'm up front with you.
I'm sick to death of biting my lip and saying the things that Moderators should say.
I can't count the number of times that the QP system has made my Hc experience suck. People flail their arms in their air screaming injustice when Ash gets a QP - they throw themselves to the ground pounding the earth with their fists when I take one from her...
Its always the same thing from the same people.
"Oh I don't care about QP's - now that I have many of them - they mean nothing... but please please don't take one from me!! And don't give one to anyone else either!"
Maybe that's a good philosophy actually *hands QP baggie back to Valeriy*
I'm really over all of this.
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"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
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phoenixreborn
Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
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posted March 25, 2009 02:40 PM |
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I would separate the issue of Asheera's consistent, constant behavior from the issue of qp's. Keep in mind I had a couple fights with her about it before.
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Bask in the light of my glorious shining unicorn.
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted March 25, 2009 08:04 PM |
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I really should quit the university. I miss everything nowadays. Sorry, Pan.
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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Asheera
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
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posted March 25, 2009 08:19 PM |
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Edited by Asheera at 20:20, 25 Mar 2009.
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Quote:
Its just delightful to read that everything that she does isn't appreciated - what was it I posted in the BB code guide thread again? - ah yes :
Well that was a lot of time ago. I was talking about the help I did recently.
And no I do *not* want a QP for the help I did. It wasn't me who started this whole drama in the first place, and I was helping everyone before, knowing that I'd get no QP. I don't do it for QPs. But one who helps and all without no reward is shown appreciation by giving a negative point?
Or take this analogy: Let's say you're in a clan/guild/whatever, and you help your members because you want, with no reward, since they are your friends. However, one day they started beating you, insulting you, or any other negative thing. Would you still help them in this case? I don't know about you, but I sure would not.Quote:
Oh I don't care about QP's - now that I have many of them - they mean nothing... but please please don't take one from me!! And don't give one to anyone else either!
No you don't understand. I wasn't disappointed on the -1 QP count I got from the penalty, but about the penalty itself and what it represented. If it makes you feel better take away one of my QPs, probably the one from the BB code guide.
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted March 25, 2009 08:36 PM |
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As I was reading this thread I apparently got the same idea as Angelito. I think that from now on all public discussions about penalties should be postponed for at least 24 hours since the penalty was given.
Notice that it is not because we shouldn't question the mods, it is only because the whole business is first and foremost between the punished member and the mod who punished him/her. And for personal problems we have the marvelous HCM system.
So, I propose that from now on every problem is first discussed in HCMs and if after 24 hours the penalty remains someone can ask the reason for the penalty in the feedback thread.
All those who do not follow said rules should be penalized for bringing negativity to HC.
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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MightyMage
Honorable
Legendary Hero
of INSANITY and DELICIOUSNESS
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posted March 25, 2009 08:45 PM |
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Ok, I know this has all been discussed to death but I just noticed this thread and everything involved this morning. I unfortunately had to go to work so I couldn't say my peace earlier. Now I will.
Since when did we have to make threads and long discussions about +/- QP's? I am honestly in shock about this. Personally, I'm not the type to bring up how things were done in "the old days" but within these past two years I have seen discussion after discussion pop up pertaining to why someone got a QP or why someone got a penalty. Any penalties that are given, if a reason can't be directly seen, it should be between the member who received the penalty and the moderator who issued it and preferably in HCM. The rest of you should have no reason to get involved. Aculias who's been here just as long as me (if not longer) should know that. It was a nice thought to remove the issue from Lexxan's thread but a simple "hey guys this is between Pan and Asheera so why don't we drop it" would have been a better choice then making a new thread.
Now as far as the issue goes, very rarely will I take sides for these type of things. I may be a bad mod at times with my jokes and whatnot but one thing I've always done as a mod is remain neutral. In this situation I'll be the same, however I will give my opinion.
I agree with Pan as far as her reasons go however I do not agree with the action taken. I'm not sure if Pan has warned Asheera in the past about her posts but I do know that if Asheera feels as if she's offended someone, she usually apologizes. HOWEVER, an apology or adding an emoticon does not give anyone a free pass to say whatever they want here.
I'll end this by stating what I think the obvious should now be. QP's both plus and minus are way too overrated. Maybe we would all be better off without them.
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Though I must still bow
in awe for the awesomeness that is
MightyMage. For he is all I could ever
want to be! - OhforfSake
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted March 25, 2009 09:03 PM |
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This is so getting into the next episode of HC survivor
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted March 25, 2009 09:08 PM |
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Quote:
It was a nice thought to remove the issue from Lexxan's thread but a simple "hey guys this is between Pan and Asheera so why don't we drop it" would have been a better choice then making a new thread.
Why would it be only between them?
As for Asheera's penalty I can perfectly understand why she got frustrated. It is not because of the less amount of QPs it gives, it's because of the penalty itself. The effect here is no important, it is the aesthetic.
Like she said, better take away one of her QPs than give her a penalty (hint: effect is the same, aesthetic is not).
Quote:
I'll end this by stating what I think the obvious should now be. QP's both plus and minus are way too overrated. Maybe we would all be better off without them.
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The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
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MightyMage
Honorable
Legendary Hero
of INSANITY and DELICIOUSNESS
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posted March 25, 2009 09:17 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
It was a nice thought to remove the issue from Lexxan's thread but a simple "hey guys this is between Pan and Asheera so why don't we drop it" would have been a better choice then making a new thread.
Why would it be only between them?
Why wouldn't it? Pan gave the penalty to Asheera. I don't see any other names in there so why would anyone else need to get involved?
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Though I must still bow
in awe for the awesomeness that is
MightyMage. For he is all I could ever
want to be! - OhforfSake
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted March 25, 2009 09:20 PM |
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Hmm... I don't know, I don't think that everyone makes the law himself/herself works anymore like in the wild west
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The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
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MightyMage
Honorable
Legendary Hero
of INSANITY and DELICIOUSNESS
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posted March 25, 2009 09:32 PM |
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You mean...no public hanging?
One of the few times I've ever seen humor out of you Death. lol
As far as the law goes, I've always seen moderators as the police and judges of HC. The police as law enforcement and judges as interpreters of the law. As you can see, we each interpret it differently.
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Though I must still bow
in awe for the awesomeness that is
MightyMage. For he is all I could ever
want to be! - OhforfSake
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted March 25, 2009 09:33 PM |
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Yeah and aren't the members the jury then?
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The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
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MightyMage
Honorable
Legendary Hero
of INSANITY and DELICIOUSNESS
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posted March 25, 2009 09:43 PM |
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No. The job of jury and executioner goes to Val.
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Though I must still bow
in awe for the awesomeness that is
MightyMage. For he is all I could ever
want to be! - OhforfSake
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 25, 2009 09:45 PM |
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Pan:
Look, I don't fault you for doing your mod duties. More like I take issue with the way you choose to do it. You don't have to throw unnecessary warnings and penalties left and right. Seriously, look at the other mods. Do you see Elvin, Alci, Mytical, or MM doing what you do? No, you really don't, because they deal with problems as they arise, not try to stifle discussion by preemption.
MM:
Quote:
Since when did we have to make threads and long discussions about +/- QP's? I am honestly in shock about this.
Read this. Is this what you want HC to turn into? Mods should be accountable for their actions.
Both:
Yeah, the QP system is flawed. Maybe it should be done away with.
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Eccentric Opinion
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MightyMage
Honorable
Legendary Hero
of INSANITY and DELICIOUSNESS
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posted March 25, 2009 10:04 PM |
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QP's and the deletion of an entire topic are two very different things.
That mock election stuff that got deleted affected more then one person and I would not object to a discussion being formed if something like that happened here. In fact, something similar did happen here some years ago. RMS decided that two threads in particular were growing too large so he took it upon himself to lock them. This affected everyone involved in the threads and I'm guessing he didn't discuss this decision with the other mods at the time (I was a regular member then) since Lith seemed surprised by the action.
What I'm getting at and I hope you understand where I'm coming from with this is what happened here only directly affects Asheera. You didn't receive the penalty nor did anyone else who felt the need to add to this discussion. There was no need for a thread to be made to discuss it. There's nothing to discuss, at least from those not involved. Simple as that.
____________
Though I must still bow
in awe for the awesomeness that is
MightyMage. For he is all I could ever
want to be! - OhforfSake
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Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted March 25, 2009 10:31 PM |
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@ TheDeathQuote:
The effect here is no important, it is the aesthetic.
Like she said, better take away one of her QPs than give her a penalty (hint: effect is the same, aesthetic is not).
You mean ethic...?
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pandora
Honorable
Legendary Hero
The Chosen One
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posted March 25, 2009 10:58 PM |
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Edited by pandora at 23:17, 25 Mar 2009.
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Ugh.. I always tell myself not to reply, then I click the damned post reply button...
@ Asheera: Quote:
But one who helps and all without no reward is shown appreciation by giving a negative point?
1) You have 14 QP's, so I think you've had some appreciation.
2) The system doesn't work that if you do X many good deeds, you get a few free negatives for your trouble. That was the whole point about why I mentioned the Sir_Stiven thing.
Don't think my feeling here is all about you, there are way too many people out there who have raised their quality count and then held the belief that they were above the rules. Most of the time we see it by way of spamming all over different forums, in some cases we've seen them think that it's okay for them to make "funny" clone accounts - and quite often these people feel they have the right to tell other members how they should or shouldn't behave. This stuff doesn't happen with any of these guys until they see that new status, but when they do we start regretting every QP we ever gave the person.
Quote:
If it makes you feel better take away one of my QPs, probably the one from the BB code guide
Do you really imagine that this would make me feel better? Do you think I've been moping around sulking that I couldn't take your QP? Wow...
Next point, MightyMage is right about all of it. When a bunch of other people jump in with their fury and start with the attitude I've been getting...ugh...all it does is make a bad situation worse. I truly had no ill feeling about anyone or anything to do with this until Mvass started in again making it seem as if I have a personal vendetta against members of HC. I honestly don't give a flying....how many QP's anyone has, I don't care about half the things that you people seem to think I live and die by.
I do what I do here because I have promised valeriy from the start that I would uphold his rules. Period.
Mvass goes off complaining about warnings etc - instead of complaining, why not read them? I have cautioned several times against these kinds of remarks disguised by smilies. I have mentioned over and over again that there's no need for some of you to crap all over each other the way it so often happens. If you don't want to listen, fine - but don't expect me to pass the tissues to you when you get the penalty.
@ Mvass:
Quote:
More like I take issue with the way you choose to do it. You don't have to throw unnecessary warnings and penalties left and right. Seriously, look at the other mods. Do you see Elvin, Alci, Mytical, or MM doing what you do? No, you really don't, because they deal with problems as they arise, not try to stifle discussion by preemption.
I know that you think you know everything, and I'm sorry to have to break it to you - but you don't. Do you know why you don't see these guys doing it? Because this kind of sandbox whinefest takes place in the forums I moderate - and when they start the result is always the same "someone needs to take care of this" then they look at me and wait.
Do I mind? No. I've already accepted what most of you think of me - I'm the "bad guy", why hurt the HQ by having anyone else look that way? I'll do it because I find I'm still quite able to sleep at night, and it really does need to get done. -- and please, spare me the part where you tell me how it should be done, I understand your vision of a world according to Mvass, but at some point in your life you're going to have to learn about comprimise, and let go of this sense of entitlement you carry with you. I don't want you telling me anymore what I should or shouldn't do - I'll take that from Valeriy about my conduct here, from everyone else I'll accept ony opinions and suggestions - not demands.
I have no issues with any of the members of the HQ - sure I get frustrated by it, but I love those guys, they're some of the remaining few that I can actually have a conversation with here anymore -- so don't take this as dissention in the ranks. I love them all - I'm just telling you what it is.
As for the QP's going, I say they should. Because in the end, no matter what anyone says, be it appreciation, respect etc - they're always talking about the damned stars.
I think Flood Protect should be lifted at the discretion of moderators - with their reasons posted somewhere publicly for all to see - and also that if a member goes stupid about it, the floodprotect should be something we could give them back.
Quality here is a mess - we tell new members to look to the people with a lot of QP's to find out how they can improve - and look at some of the role models the QP's have given them.
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"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 25, 2009 11:16 PM |
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Quote:
Do you know why you don't see these guys doing it? Because this kind of sandbox whinefest takes place in the forums I moderate - and when they start the result is always the same "someone needs to take care of this" then they look at me and wait.
Or maybe because they mod correctly.
If someone goes off on a racist rant, it's a job for a mod.
If a banned member creates an alternate account, it's a job for a mod.
If there is blatant use of uncensored bad language and insults, it's a job for a mod.
If someone makes a few light jokes, it's not a job for a mod.
"Sandbox whinefest"? Really? If the penalty is well-deserved, then there isn't any whinefest. If there is a whinefest, then the penalty is probably not deserved.
HC - for the members or for the mods? HC exists because of the contributions of its members.
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Eccentric Opinion
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pandora
Honorable
Legendary Hero
The Chosen One
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posted March 25, 2009 11:21 PM |
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Edited by pandora at 23:49, 25 Mar 2009.
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Damn - you replied before you caught my edit: here it was
Quote:
and please, spare me the part where you tell me how it should be done, I understand your vision of a world according to Mvass, but at some point in your life you're going to have to learn about comprimise, and let go of this sense of entitlement you carry with you. I don't want you telling me anymore what I should or shouldn't do - I'll take that from Valeriy about my conduct here, from everyone else I'll accept ony opinions and suggestions - not demands.
But there you go..my fault for being too slow.
Quote:
If someone makes a few light jokes, it's not a job for a mod.
"Sandbox whinefest"? Really? If the penalty is well-deserved, then there isn't any whinefest. If there is a whinefest, then the penalty is probably not deserved.
Here's where I find you so wrong.
You seem to believe that your opinions should be the defining ones.
You think its light jokes, usually because you don't like the people they're being made about and you find it funny.
You are right that Hc is for the members - but that means all of the members not just you and your buddies.
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"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
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