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| Thread: Admira's Heroes 6 Concept |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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admira
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted March 25, 2009 02:56 PM |
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Edited by admira at 18:30, 28 Jul 2009.
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Admira's Heroes 6 Concept
UPDATE
2009-03-26:
- Replace word "handicap" with "upkeep" something I forgot to do. Well it is the one determines the size of "effective" army you can bring. Add detailed section for detailed information
2009-03-27:
- Add a detailed section about range new methods!!! (MUST READ, well not that I confidence it good, in contrary I need your opinion about it)
2009-04-05:
- Add Heroes at detailed section. Add Table of Content (for now only in new stuff)
2009-04-07:
- Add Legendary Heroes at Detailed section
- Add Tadadadada Heroes List
2009-04-12:
- Modify Findan's skill a bit
- Add Weapon available for each Hero (so far only 2 Heroes)
2009-04-16:
- Removing Phoenix from Key feature, I think it is not appropriate as key feature lolz sorry about that...
- Add Town Building section
- Add some of the Faction's unique Racial Skills
2009-04-17:
-Replace Pegasus with Paladin, I found it more appropriate.
2009-06-04:
- Add Story origin of Wanderer and Slayers.
2009-07-28:
- Add some Lore
- Change Holy Knight --> Crusader and Apprentice --> Initiate, Thanks for the suggestion, Bixie
how to use Table of Content:
copy the tagged "[Tagged]" then search the tagged
Table Of Content
[GNRLSTR] General Story
[FCTNS] Factions
[FCTCSTL] Castle
[FCTBSLC] Basilica
[FCTINFR] Inferno
[FCTPGDA] Pagoda
[GMPFTR] Gameplay Features
[DTLDINF] Detailed Information
[SPRNLMT] Spell casting and Range attack Range limitation
[SPLLCST] Spell Casting
[RNGATTK] Range Attack
[TWNBLD] Town Building
[GNRLBLD] General Building
[ARBLCKSMTH] Arcane BlackSmith
[NRMLHRS] Heroes
[HRSTYPE] Heroes Type
[LGNDHRS] Legendary Heroes
[HRESLST] Heroes List (Legendaries are in Red)
[HRSLSTNCR] Necropolis
[STRAKR] Straker
[HRSLSTSYL] Sylvan
[FNDN11] Findan
[LLVRSC] Lore-Lover Section
[CMPGSTR] Campaign Stories
[TUTOR1A] Tutorial: Raise of the King
[TUTOCH1] Chapter 1: The Silver Sword
[TUTOCH2] Chapter 2: Sword of Talanis
[TUTOCH3] Chapter 3: Trial of the King
[NVLKSTR] Story Telling (Origin, Reason, etc)
[WNDSLY1] Wanderers and Slayers: The Lost Chapter
[DMNARMR] Origin of the Demon Armors NEW!!!
I am developer of heroes 6. At least I dreamt to be one ok btw, rather than factions build I will introduce you new concept, story that I myself found interesting. Currently I am a database programmer but I have a dream that one day I will be able to design my own game and heroes is one of my most desired game to design. It took my whole day to write this down (of course avoiding my boss and his spies) so it is not an easy work  btw, I already wrote a very uninspired Heroes 6 design here but well due to my overloaded work I forgot to finish it and decided to create a new one instead. Thanks for listening chiiiiilllllldddreeeen this is three dog awoooo, from the round table forum. Now some game design:
[GNRLSTR] General Story
With the coming of the doom stars summoned by the soverign using the power of Sar-Elam Skull (event happened in DMoMM), the prison of Seogh is once more weakened and the demons are released upon the world. Their invasion start to alter their form into a more "human like" (hoping the arch devil return to its H3 style LOLzzz  )
The humans Kingdom shatered, the angels leave them following the new path led by saint Isable who people of the light called: the avatar of Elrath. The path of priesthood and light serperated from human kingdom, in the brink of the new order, Lords and High Generals fight amongs themselves to regain the rights as King.
Necromancers become silent all of sudden marching quietly to Heresh the capital of the dead and stand still, as if awaiting for something undiscribed by even the scholars and mages of the silver league. The wizards however look at this situation as a moment to end the reign of undeads forever and marching their main army to surround them at heresh and purge them into eternity.
With the death of the SoulScar and the missing of their most powerful leader, the Dark Elves numbers are greatly reduced. Beasts and Demi-human survivor soon reclaim the previously the land of Dark Elves their home. The Matriachal Society soon forgotten and the Dark Elves' Warlocks build a new alliance along with their demi-humans Ally.
Seeking the truth about the demon invasion and how to repel them a band of Elven alliance start a campaign to find the hidden fortress of the Dragon Knight, only by the legacy left by Tieru who is also a former member of the Dragon Knight Order, the only hope possibly mankind have to repel the demon invasion.
[FCTNS] Factions
[FCTCSTL] Castle
Story
After Angels and the factions split up, the humans waged into a long wars involving Lords to reclaim the position as King. This ended up as the last of the royal blood, Roland Gryphonheart reclaim the throne and unit the race of man once again. In his back there are Remi Gustav, tactician and advisor to the throne also Duncan as leader of the Knight Order. The factions no longer worship any god. In the campaign you will play as Gustav as legendary Hero.
Unique Racial Skills:
Promote
Upgrading Human Unit higher. Cost you a fortune. Each level reduce the price of promoting
Units Line Up:
Heroes: Knight/Enchanter
Level 1: Peasant/Militia
Level 2: Crossbowman/Marksman
Level 3: Mercenary/Swordsman
Level 4: Griffin/Armored Griffin
Level 5: Scholar/Alchemist
Level 6: Cavalier/Champion
Level 7: Wanderer/Slayer
Juggernaut: Colossus
[FCTBSLC] Basilica
Story
Newly formed faction led by Isabel who people refer as Saint later as avatar of Elrath. The army of this factions contains Templar, Holy Knights, Archons, Angels and Priests. In the campaign you will play as Zoltar a High Templar on his this campaign. Zoltar has been missing until later in the campaign he is found searching for ancient relic with an ally that soon drive him into what they called Heretics, because his army are fighting side by side with other army whose leader's name is Sareth.
Unique Racial Skills:
Light Manna Pool:
Every Creature in Basilica army has ability that requires Light Manna. In contrary, Heroes of this factions will added point to Light Manna Pool whether it is defend, attack, use ability in exception of wait. Light Manna Pool differ on each hero. At the end of battle, Light Manna pool can be used to resurrect fallen unit, each units cost differently. The higher the unit's level the higher the cost of Light Manna Pool. Light Manna remains after battle and bring up to
the next turn.
Units Line Up:
Heroes: Crusader/Zealot
Level 1: Follower/Fanatic
Level 2: Initate/???? (<-- haven't decided a name yet)
Level 3: Priest/Cleric
Level 4: Templar/Divine Templar
Level 5: Defender/Paladin
Level 6: Cardinal/Archon
Level 7: Angel/Arch Angel
Juggernaut: Seraphim
[FCTINFR] Inferno
Story
Inferno is not much different than the previous version except that the appearance of the units looks more human but still have the fiery feels on them. Inferno is begining their invasions under their Sovereign Khal'Beth. In the demon campaign you will play as Raelag (later Agrael) and sareth (both are Legendary Hero)
Dungeon
Story
The new Dungeon seek their new ruler, for this the old contest is held as you will play taking role of Sumba a Warlord Minotaur, proficient in Warlock's Magic and Expert Axe swinging has entitled him a Legendary Hero. The faction now is more variated with Centaur leaving the Orc's Horde and join the Dungeon, There are also Harpies and the ol' Minotaurs. The Assassin remains there with Ravengers and Demi-Humans most of them are Bull-Head or Winged man-Eagle. Their Origin is yet to know but they provides a powerful addition to the rank of Dungeon Army.
Necropolis
Story
The Necropolis faction is gathered in the Heresh a misterious force attract this wretched creatures. The Bone Dragon is no longer on their Rank but the Death Knight Pledge their royalty once more as lvl 6 creature. and the wraith as lvl 7. In here you will play as mute apprentice to a necromancer called Ollan. Ollan's purpose is yet to be known but the apprentice as legendary Hero of the faction will be your playable character leading the army of undead to repel the Wizards surrounding Heresh and search for ancient tombs and relics is the main story of the necropolis
Sylvan
Story
The band of Elven Warriors gather together to find the secret fortress of the Dragon Knight Order. In their campaign, will play the ol' Findan as Legendary Hero who found the last legacy left by Tieru that believed to lead them into the legendary Fortress of the Dragon Knight Order.
Stronghold
Story
Craig Hack the well known Barbarian a former general for man race is approaced by a misterious mage. He called himself the Appentrice for a strange order and said that his mentor requires something in return, he will grant Craig imortality and the legendary Dwarven King's Axe. He asks his help to enter the valey of lost King to retrive some relics (<-- feels de ja vu already?). The factions is now varied with Centaur leaving them to join dungeon in return, Troll moves in.
Pyramid
Story
The Pyramid is the home of Nomads, the army contains a varied race of man, trigan (tiger headed human) and jackal. They are usually move from one place to another as a free clansmen. Until they found Pyramid of Eye Gazer. The Trigans comes from Mercenary that usually accompany traders act as bodyguard, The Jackals are race that guard the temple of the Eye while the race of Men formerly trader but comes to arm as one in this faction. The Pyramid campaign will tell story about a civil war happened on their faction, The brown Trigans are in war with the prowler the black Trigans. The war is all about race distinction, with humans siding with the Brown while Jackal with the Prowlers. It started with the death of their last kings Aruma. Aruma has two sons from two wives. Ekela the Brown Trigans and Zellea the Prowler. Both are fighting to claim the throne and using "color" as reason of the fight which causing turmoil and fight amongs themselves.
[FCTPGDA] Pagoda
Story
The Pagoda is a very different human factions with Imperialism as their basic. The Pagoda faction is a highly mystical Imperial with exotic creature and powerful generals at their disposal. Soon after the destruction of Dwarven race, the Arkath leave them and put his eye into this faction, the first sight of Arkath visioned by the Emperor Zu, soon Arkath affection spread accross the empire. The old scholar of Pagoda believes that Arkath are actually the Deity that protect them a long time ago in the ancient time, why he left them or how remain a mystery. After the Arkath's "return" to the faction, powerful creatures start to appear: Nine Tails fox (with each tails is actually a burst bright flame), Temple Lion (the hairs is actually a flame burst) and a creature of pure fire phoenix. The Pagoda in the campaign story is under a heavy siege by a small army yet very powerful. The army believes that the sudden fiery aura of the factions comes from the newly released demons affection that they are the cult in serve for the demons. While the emperor persist that their old god has returned.
Unique Racial Skills:
?????: Haven't decided yet, actually I do have one but need some replenishment
Units Line Up:
Heroes: General/Chi Master
Level 1: Monk/Master
Level 2: Stone Monkey/Sun Monkey
Level 3: Pyromaniac/Pyromancer
Level 4: Nine Tails/Kyubi
Level 5: Lancer/Dragoon
Level 6: Temple Lion/Infernal
Level 7: Red Bird/Phoenix
Juggernaut: Arkath's Salamander
Tower
Story
Wizards main armies march to the heresh in plan to surround the undead and necromancers and purge them to their end, however the plan is harder to accomplish instead they surround them, walled them, prisoned them inside Heresh. The leagues of Silver City haven't decided whether to destroy them or only stop the source. While the argument is being discussed, they didn't realize that maybe they are already too late.
[GMPFTR] Gameplay Features
1. Like in Heroes 5 each faction's hero will have different 1 unique skill and 1 unique set of abilities. There are 4 stats mainly: Mana, Power, Att, Def this works exactly like the ones in pervious heroes games.
2. The initiative queue battle mode remains
3. Hero will participate in battle (before you send any assassin or terrorist against me pls look at the following rules):
3a. They can't die, but if their HP run out they will go unconscious, as long as your army remain, the Hero will regain his consciousness after 1 turn (the hero turn) and able to take action the next turn
3b. Because they will fight in battle heroes has a standalone HP and stats (different one from the attack that effecting creature damage and def) like creature only that they are not stackable and possesed unique ability each one of them, there will be no duplicate ability on each hero of the same or different faction. This will distinct every hero
3c. One army contains only one hero, hero can't travel without army except in several campaign missions. In skrimish heroes without army has 7 days before he really abandon and leave entirely.
3d. YOu win a battle when: you have destroy all the enemy hero army and the enemy hero in unconscious condition.
3e. If you choose run, the army and the hero will abandon you but usually re-recruitable at the tavern.
3f. Hero will be varied, starting from spell caster, melee attacker, and range attacker. Spell casting will have casting range and unavailable to cast outside the casting range the rules go the same for units stacks. Range attacker also has 3 range area. Broken arrow means you do a very minimum damage, almost broken arrow you will do only 50% of damage and full arrow for full damage, indicated by green, yellow and red on the hexagonal (or square in case of heroes 5) around the units or Hero when the range units or heroes starting their move.
3g. Heroes skills will be called war skills: war skills will vary from direct damage, charging, upgrading units to aura that effects surrounding army, or individual skills like wall climb, leaping attack, or energy burst.
3h. Ordinary skills have sub called ability which not levels, ordinary skills has 3 level: basic, advance, expert while war skills has 3 levels for ordinary and 1 level for ultimate war skills. each hero will possesed 4 basic war skills and 1 ultimate war skills.
3i. Btw, the Hero army's buff (attack, def) still effecting the army excluding War Skill buff.
3j. Hero's War skill is chooseable at every lvl up while the ordinary skills and abilty appears randomly (like in all heroes games, specifically heroes 5). So every lvl up you choose 4 possible skills or ability which appear randomly and finally choose 1 war skill to level or learn.
4. There will be legendary heroes. In campaign you will automatically control them as part of the story telling. At skirmish, you will randomly encounter them. The rules are:
4a. In campaign you will automatically control them as part of the story telling. At skirmish, you will randomly encounter them when you visit any castle. The message "There is a force disturbance in the air" means in the mentioned castle's tavern will appear a random Legendary Heroes but of the same faction as the town's mentioned. e.g the message appear at one of your inferno there is possibility of Agrael or Sareth to appear at the tavern. Or the message appear at the Basilica means Zoltar or Azrael will appear at the mentioned castle.
4b. Legendary heroes tend to be very powerful either by their stats, or war skills but they start at lvl 1 and need the same amount of exp as normal heroes
4c. Upon defeat they will reappear at the nearest ally castle you have for free but with 0 army and will perish after 7 days if you do not filling army for them, the Legendary Heroes are tend to loyal to you and their honor prevent them to serve other Lords.
4d. Grail structure will increase the possibility of Legendary Heroes to spawn at your tavern.
5. Range and spell attack will be limited (see no 4 for more detail).
6. There will be Juggernaut:
6a. Juggernaut available only after you build Grail.
6b. Juggernaut is hero-like unit who tends to be powerful but can't be brought into hero Army.
6c. Juggernaut are powerful entity and they sworn not to leave capital city no matter what.
6d. Btw, Juggernaut didn't have level and cost you a fortune.
6e. They can be killed so if you lost one in battle prepare to pruchase another one.
6f. You can only have 1 Juggernaut in the capital.
7. Spell system use the same as 5th with 4 school: summoning, destruction, dark and light
7a. Mage guild has of course 5 levels
7b. All factions (excluding barbarians) will have another 1 upgrade: magic Sentry
7b1. Magic sentry allow you to mix 2 kind of spell limited on each faction castle limited.
7b2. This is the list:
- Necropolis: Dark + Summon
- Tower: Summon + destruction or Summon + light
- Castle: Light + dark
- Dungeon: Dark + destruction
- Sylvan: Summon + destruction
- Inferno: destruction+ Dark
- Basilica: Light + Summon
- Pagoda: destruction+ Light
- Pyramid: Light + Summon
7b3. Although there are the same combination like Sylvan's combination and Tower's combination on Summon + destruction, but the result will be different depend on where you combine the two types of magic.
7b4. Each castle has its own 5 different of lvl 1 combination, 3 different lvl 2 combination and 1 different lvl 3 combination. Each can be done when both respected school of magic at the same lvl: for e.g: if your hero has basic summon and basic destruction you will be able to create a combination at tower or Sylvan to receive 1 random lvl 1 combination magic. If you have 1 SYlvan and 1 Tower means you may get 1 random lvl 1 magic of Sylvan and 1 random lvl 1 magic of Tower. Means you will have 2 magic combo lvl 1. Remember! the list of combo spell is totally different it is unique on each faction!!!
7b5. The combination still count, with advance Summon and advance Chaos you will be able to receive lvl 2 combination or with expert summon and advance chaos you will be able to receive lvl 2 combination on Tower and Sylvan. and so on.
8. With the Spell caster combo magic, the might type also has advantages or should we say limitation. Now there will be upkeep. if you bring army higher than your upkeep. your army will be less efficient. For e.g: your upkeep is 100 you brought 100 Skeleton Warrior and 5 Zombie than each damage deal will be cut by 50% randomly. The percentage of lower damage is decided by how many you break the upkeep in this case you bring 105 army in total, means: you got 105 (your total army) - 100 (your hero upkeep) = 5% chance to get lower damage on each physical, ranged and spell (buff and debuff will have reduced duration) on each stack and hero act. Might Type hero tend to get higher upkeep!! (this is to encourage player to use more hero during their play)
9. multiple Hero can attack simulataneously at the max 4 hero at the same time. So when you approach enemy stack or sieging castle, you will not automatically enter the battle, instead you will offer a chance to call your other hero (if they are in the range of their movement). Victim's ally hero around the victim's hero movement will be able to participate to help. Example Gustav attack Sareth, in one day sareth's movement Agrael (Sareth's ally) and Zoltar (Also Sareth's ally) are on the reach of 1 day Sareth Movement point. Both will be able to help but the next turn Sareth will suffer movement penalty the amount of the penalty depend on how many hero come to his aid.
[DTLDINF] Detailed Information
[SPRNLMT] Spell casting and Range attack Range limitation
Now this is a new feature I offers you. You can look at them at key feature no 4f. But not yet well detailed. So here is how.
You may say this as act of Nerfing Spell Caster and Range Attacker (Mwahahahahah *Evil Grin*). Actually, I think it will be more balance this way. Anyway there are 2 types of range act in the game: Spell and Range attack (arrow). Now each Spell and Range Attack has range in order to use them. Both will be different now is the detailed explaination
[SPLLCST] Spell Casting
All Spell Casting now has Casting Range. Outside casting range, spell won't be able to commit. There are 3 Types of Spell: Mass effect, Area of Effect, and single target
Mass Effect
1. The unit (or hero) that has Mass effect spell start a move
2. Open spell book, choose mass effect spell
3. The screen will change into targeting screen with green area surrounding the units (or hero)
4. there will be option commit spell/not
5. At this screen you can see red highlighted unit (which will be affected by spell) and a green highted ground (area of the mass effect spell). Units outside these area or non-highlighted unit will not be affected by spell. For e.g: Mass slow. Ally stack unit inside the green highlighted will not be affected thus it will not glow red, Enemy units immune to slow inside the highlighted area also will not glow red means it is not affected. The rest outside the green highlighted area is not affected.
6. Commit the spell and viola
7. alternately you can move your unit/hero to another location to a better positioning and wait until his next move then read no 1.
Area of Effect:
1. The unit (or hero) that has area of Effect spell start a move
2. Open spell book, choose area of effect spell
3. The screen will change into targeting screen with green area surrounding the units (or hero)
4. choose the area you desired, the glowing red unit around the area you choose is the unit(s) or stack(s) or hero(es) that will be affected by the spell.
5. Click the area desired, option of Commit spell/not will appear
6. choose to commit spell and viola
7. alternately you can move your unit/hero to another location to a better positioning and wait until his next move then read no 1.
Single Target:
1. The unit (or hero) that has Single Target spell start a move
2. Open spell book, choose Single Target spell
3. The screen will change into targeting screen with green area surrounding the units (or hero)
4. choose the unit you desired, the glowing red unit you choose is the unit or stack or hero that will be affected by the spell.
5. Click the unit desired, option of Commit spell/not will appear
6. choose to commit spell and viola
7. alternately you can move your unit/hero to another location to a better positioning and wait until his next move then read no 1.
Alternately, some hero has a war skill that will improve casting range on specific or multiple spell(s) or even all spells in a school of magic. This will add strategy in-depth to an already nice strategy game. Not to mention heroes variation will now be more distinct and fun to explore because here there is more deep strategy to choose than it was before.
[RNGATTK] Range Attack
Range Attack is now less abusive. Now instead of broken and full arrow now will have 3 stage: Broken, almost broken and full arrow.
- Broken Arrow do 25% of damage
- Almost Broken Arrow do minimum damage
- Full arrow do full damage
The method is like this:
1. The unit (or Hero) with range attack start a move
2. highlighted 3 colors are will appear around the unit: Green, Yellow, Red.
3. 1 hex (or square) around the unit will not be highlihted (like in all heroes game range units can't attack if there is a unit/stack 1 hex beside them)
4. The basic highlight is actually Green and Yelllow the rest is Red.
5. enemy Units in Red area will receive Broken Arrow damage, enemy Units in Yellow area will receive almost broken Arrow damage, and enemy units inside Green area will receive full damage
6. Choose a unit to attack
7. Click and viola!
8. alternately you can move your unit/hero to another location to a better positioning and wait until his next move then read no 1.
This range attack method also add a deep strategy decission which in my opinion is great. Basically now it requires to use your brain to decide a strategic position that will allow your unit to do full damage. Simply put, units positioning is now a critical point on using range attacker.
These method open even more unit, hero, spell design. You may create a spell that reduce casting range or visa verca. Or you can create a curse that reduced the range proportion on range attacker. You can also have a hero that his ultimate skill improve casting range of specific spell or even better: mass effect spell may work like the old method: ignore casting range effecting all in the battlefield.
[TWNBLD] Town Building
[GNRLBLD] General Building
[ARBLCKSMTH] Arcane BlackSmith
In the addition of new Heroes system, that able to use equipment and weapons, Blacksmith will support this need. You can build this building after you build Blacksmith your daily ordinary blakcksmith.
What you can do in Blacksmith?
Weapon Breakdown
All Heroes weapon be it a melee or range weapon are limited depend on the hero you choose. Some Heroes e.g: Findan will gain weapon as part of his war skills. However you will occasionally encounter weapon (previously a part of artifacts in the past heroes series) and your specific hero can't use it because he is not proficient with the weapon, you can always break down the weapon and attach it to get the advantages of the weapon considered. Findan's unique range weapon and all weapon gained by skills usually has at least 1 socket. Some of the greater weapon offer more than 1 slot in other word you can always attach more and gain the advantages of the weapon you found (even when you can't equip them). All skills on the Breakdowned weapon are all the same as the original weapon so fear not to loose penalty on it the only limit is the number of socket you found.
An example, Findan found Javelin of Spirit War a range weapon that he can't use. What you need is bring the Javelin to the blacksmith and break it down. It will become a relic stone and you will able to attach it to Findan's Moon Sabre Bow and gain the bonus stats out of both the Javelin and the Moon Sabre Bow.
Breaking Down weapon will of course cost gold. Also you can't break down legendary weapons and Unique weapons, meaning you can't break down a legendary weapon (able to see on each weapon stats there will be explanation) and you can't break down Findan's Moon Sabre Bow because it is a unique weapon bind to Findan. Weapons and Items gained by War Skill learning are considered unique and bind to the user, in this case those mentioned equipment can't be break down and can't be traded into other hero. Legendary Heroes' unique weapon usually involved story telling like Roland's Silver King Sword and Findan's Moon Sabre Bow are both told in the campaign how they gained access to them. However in skirmishes you will automatically gained them whenever you learned specific war skills.
Weapon Restore
It is the reverse from Breakdown, to return relic level item into its original form. It is of course still cost you some gold. Because Weapon restore doesn't happen if you don't break any weapon so the rules is basicaly the same, with legendary level and unique artifacts unable to be restored (or basically you can't even break them down)
Socketing
It is an act to socket relic into items with socket. Weapon relic can only be attached to a socket weapon while armor relic can be attached to any armor part.
[NRMLHRS] Heroes
What is a Heroes game without a Heroes. Heroes' involving in battle is something that has been implemented in the past but... well in a way that is difficult to say it is a good one. To be honest when Heroes IV was about to be released, the one who kept me from my sleep is imagining how cool it is if the hero is fighting alongside his breathern. But when I got the copy and played them... well it is not exactly what I imagined.
Rather than talking about the past here is what my imagination about Heroes in Heroes game that participate actively with his breathern in the real combat.
First let's talk about the change. Changes that will be necessary:
1. They will have 2 stats: first one is war stats, the same exactly stats that is on creature decided how much his HP, Mana, physical damage, defense and magic damage. The other one is Tactical Stats which worked as the original Heroes are: they give bonuses stats to the army he/she command. This because it has to be beatable that's why he got HP. He must have his own attack serperated from the bonus attack to army because high tactical heroes lore-wise didn't need to have a powerful damage. Tactician depend more on the creature.
2. Heroes and Unit stacks will have limitation in range in order to perform specific spell casting and physical range attacking. This need to be done in order to prevent Heroes involvement turn out to be useless and the principal of Heroes actively involved in combat thus denied.
3. Heroes will have its own unique model, and a set of unique ability called war skills. War skills are different that your general Skills and abilities. Simply put, war skills are unique set of ability on each hero while general skills and abilities are like: unique Skills (decided by factions) and general skills (all can learn the same one but with different set of ability decided by skills wheel depend faction you choose, the rest are the same for all faction). This will determined the replayability even with the same faction you choose and more in-depth strategy you can always try.
4. there will be upkeep. if you bring army higher than your upkeep. your army will be less efficient. For e.g: your upkeep is 100 you brought 100 Skeleton Warrior and 5 Zombie than each damage deal will be cut by 50% randomly. The percentage of lower damage is decided by how many you break the upkeep in this case you bring 105 army in total, means: you got 105 (your total army) - 100 (your hero upkeep) = 5% chance to get lower damage on each physical, ranged and spell (buff and curse spell will have reduced duration) on each stack and hero act. Might hero tend to get higher upkeep!! (this is to encourage player to use more hero during their play). This feature is another changes necessary to keep your heroes as active unit in your army. This feature will be the last keep-the-flow feature to keep the principal that your Hero actively participate in combat.
and of course with this changes, comes new development something like:
1. There will be legendary Heroes (explained on Key Feature or you can see the detail you may find at table of content)
2. Heroes can always switch mode from Melee to Range without penalty. But usually they will always have what they are better at and it will be decided by their stats (attack, range attack damage, defense, and their synergy with their unique war skills) thus provide you with different play style.
3. Heroes'ability will be varied starting with: leaping, buff, direct damage, Imbued damage so many to be listed here.
4. Heroes can't die in combat, rather than put in "unconscious" condition. During this period, heroes can't be attacked and will gain consciousness and fill his HP randomly between 50 to 100% HP on his next turn and able to move the next turn after. This will eliminate the need to add potions and buff potions which IMHO one of many reasons that ruin the H IV heroes system.
5. How you will win the battle then? when all your opponent Army is eliminated and your opponent's hero is in unconscious condition.
6. In multiple Heroes combat the condition to win a battle is by eliminating all enemy's unit stacks and put all their heroes to unconscious. Thus you will win a team battle.
7. I can keep go on but to be continued.....
[HRSTYPE] Heroes Type
The heroes Type is return to its 3rd series which means each factions has 2 heroes type: Might and Magic. Might heroes tend to get more upkeep (see key feature no 9) while magic heroes has an advantage of high spell power and magic combo, the more they learn the better they are (see key feature no 8). Like in the Heroes 3 and 5, heroes have speciality but rather than a skill (buff to specific unit stack, buff to skill or unique racial skill, buff to one magic) it becomes a set of abilities called war skills a unique heroes ability set differ to the ordinary skills like necromancy, logistic, learning. Each hero will possesed different set of war skill that distinct them. Of course the heroes appearance and animation (talking about techincal issue) will be different on each hero. Here is the Hero on each faction:
1. Castle: Knight and Alchemist
2. Inferno: Demon Lord and Cultist
3. Tower: Battle Mage and Wizard
4. Necropolis: Death Knight and Necromancer
5. Basilica: High Templar and Zealot
6. Pagoda: General and Taoist
7. Stronghold: Barbarian
8. Dungeon: Warlord and Warlock
9. Sylvan: Ranger and High Druid
10. Pyramid: Phalanx (is it the right spell?) and Oracle
Both Might and Magic Heroes will have either Range or Melee damage (remember they are now participating in battle see key feature no 4).
[LGNDHRS] Legendary Heroes
There will be legendary heroes. In campaign you will automatically control them as part of the story telling. At skirmish, you will randomly encounter them. The rules are:
1. In campaign you will automatically control them as part of the story telling. At skirmish, you will randomly encounter them when you visit any castle. The message "There is a force disturbance in the air" means in the mentioned castle's tavern will appear a random Legendary Heroes but of the same faction as the town's mentioned. e.g the message appear at one of your inferno there is possibility of Agrael or Sareth to appear at the tavern. Or the message appear at the Basilica means Zoltar or Azrael will appear at the mentioned castle.
2. Legendary heroes tend to be very powerful either by their stats, or war skills but they start at lvl 1 and need the same amount of exp as normal heroes
3. Upon defeat they will reappear at the nearest ally castle you have for free but with 0 army and will perish after 7 days if you do not filling army for them, the Legendary Heroes are tend to loyal to you and their honor prevent them to serve other Lords.
4. Grail structure will increase the possibility of Legendary Heroes to spawn at your tavern.
There is background story on why I want to see them and treat them differently in-game. Especially because Legendary Heroes Lore-Wise have interesting stories to tell and people always want them to be used in normal game, but adding them in normal way will kill the balance of the game completely and reducing them to as equal as normal heroes will hurt both Lore and fun-fact of the games. So I found the random encounter like explained above is the most possible way "Can you feel it? there is a force disturbance in the air, someone powerful is here?". There will be more to tell about them so stay tuned.
[HRESLST] Heroes List (Legendaries are in Red)
Castle
Normal Heroes
- Eleine
- Christopher Silverlake
- Conwell
- More to come...
Legendary Heroes
- Remi Gustav
- Roland Gryphonheart
- Duke Duncan
Inferno
Normal Heroes
- More to come...
Legendary Heroes
- Agrael
- Sareth
- Khal'beth
Basilica
Normal Heroes
- Celesta
- More to come...
Legendary Heroes
- Zoltar
- Azkael
- Isabel
[HRSLSTNCR] Necropolis
Normal Heroes
[STRAKR] Straker
Type: Death Knight
Title: Zombie Comander
Weapons: Sword, Axe
War Skills:
Fleshed Booster (Pasive)
Spell Type: Battle
Effect:
1. Zombies or Plague ZOmbie under Straker's Army gain + 1 + (Straker's Level/2) to their Attack and Defense.
2. Zombies or Plague ZOmbie under Straker's Army gain + 2 + (Straker's Level/2) to their Attack and Defense.
3. Zombies or Plague ZOmbie under Straker's Army gain + 3 + (Straker's Level/2) to their Attack and Defense.
Zombie State (Active)
Spell Type: Battle
Target: Living Unit Stack (doesn't effected undead, Elemental and Mechanical)
Casting Range: 6 Square
Mana Cost: 5
Effect:
1. Putting the target stack into Zombie State, Zombie state has initially droped Initiative by 5 and turn the target attribute into Undead. However, Straker's own stack at zombie state will have advantages on Zombie Expert and Fleshed Booster skill. Lasts for 1 Turn
2. Putting the target stack into Zombie State, Zombie state has initially droped Initiative by 5 and turn the target attribute into Undead. However, Straker's own stack at zombie state will have advantages on Zombie Expert and Fleshed Booster skill. Lasts for 2 Turn
3. Putting the target stack into Zombie State, Zombie state has initially droped Initiative by 5 and turn the target attribute into Undead. However, Straker's own stack at zombie state will have advantages on Zombie Expert and Fleshed Booster skill. Lasts for 3 Turn
Zombie wall (Active)
Spell Type: Battle
Target: Unit Stack/Heroes
Casting Range: 6 Square
Mana Cost: 5/6/7
Effect:
1. Summon 2 walls of zombie. Zombie walls will cause Plague to units adjacent it. Enemy range attacker will be disabled when Zombie walls (accidently or not) summoned adjacent to them. Zombie Wall has 1 HP. Lasts: 1 Turn
2. Summon 3 walls of zombie. Zombie walls will cause Plague to units adjacent it. Enemy range attacker will be disabled when Zombie walls (accidently or not) summoned adjacent to them. Zombie Wall has 1 HP. Lasts: 1 Turn
3. Summon 4 walls of zombie. Zombie walls will cause Plague to units adjacent it. Enemy range attacker will be disabled when Zombie walls (accidently or not) summoned adjacent to them. Zombie Wall has 1 HP. Lasts: 1 Turn
Zombie Expert (Pasive) (Ultimate)
Spell Type: Battle
Every Zombie under Straker's command will have increased Initiative by: level of Straker / 3
Legendary Heroes
- Nicolai (<-- not sure the spelling)
- Markal
- Misterious Disciples (<-- your main campaign story's character)
Tower/Academy (<-- haven't decided the name yet)
Normal Heroes
- More to come...
Legendary Heroes
- Zehir
- More to come...
[HRSLSTSYL] Sylvan
Normal Heroes
- More to come...
Legendary Heroes
[FNDN11] Findan
Type: Ranger
Title: Glade Keeper
Weapons: Bow, Crossbow, Sword, Knife
War SKills:
Bow and Blade (Pasive)
Spell Type: Battle
Effect:
1. Grant Findan the Moon Sabre Bow, Unique Bow bind to Findan, Granting +4 Tactical ATK, + 20 Range Damage. Granting 2x Damage. First damage is normal damage using his melee weapon, the second damage is done by his bow-blade for 40% of his range damage. Retaliation not affected
2. Grant Findan the Moon Sabre Bow, Unique Bow bind to Findan, Granting +4 Tactical ATK, + 20 Range Damage. Granting 2x Damage. First damage is normal damage using his melee weapon, the second damage is done by his bow-blade for 60% of his range damage. Retaliation not affected
3. Grant Findan the Moon Sabre Bow, Unique Bow bind to Findan, Granting +4 Tactical ATK, + 20 Range Damage. Granting 2x Damage. First damage is normal damage using his melee weapon, the second damage is done by his bow-blade for 80% of his range damage. Retaliation affected
Findan's Fury (Active)
Spell Type: Battle
Target: Self Buff
Casting Range: 0
Mana Cost: 8
Effect:
1. Findan enters FUrry mode. In Furry mode, everytime he moves, he will shot random enemy creature for 15% of damage on each square he went through. Duration: 3 Turns
2. Findan enters FUrry mode. In Furry mode, everytime he moves, he will shot random enemy creature for 20% of damage on each square he went through. Duration: 3 Turns
3. Findan enters FUrry mode. In Furry mode, everytime he moves, he will shot random enemy creature for 25% of damage on each square he went through. Duration: 3 Turns
Ranger Master (Pasive)
Spell Type: Battle
Effect:
1. Each Range stack under Findan's army and in 1 square adjacent to Findan will do + 1 more attack (Hunter will do 3x shoot rather than 2) with the third shot dealing 10% of damage. The skill also granting x 2 attack to Findan when he using his Range Attack
2. Each Range stack under Findan's army and in 1 square adjacent to Findan will do + 1 more attack (Hunter will do 3x shoot rather than 2) with the third shot dealing 20% of damage. The skill also granting x 2 attack to Findan when he using his Range Attack
3. Each Range stack under Findan's army and in 1 square adjacent to Findan will do + 1 more attack (Hunter will do 3x shoot rather than 2) with the third shot dealing 30% of damage. The skill also granting x 3 attack to Findan when he using his Range Attack
Arrow Barrage (Ultimate) (Pasive)
Spell Type: Battle
Effect:
At the beginning of battle, All range attacker under Findan's army will do Green Area damage on random creature. Thereafter every 4 turn of Findan's movement they will do 25% damage of. More to it upon learning Arrow Barrage, Findan will be granted: Arrow Assault
Arrow Assault (Learned upon Learning Arrow Barrage) (Active) (Limitation: 1 + Findan's Level/ 4 times per day) (Active)
Spell Type: Adventure Map
Target: Enemy's Hero
Mana Cost: 5
Casting Range: Findan's Movement Area
Effects:
Attacking random Target's army unit stack/hero that may causing casualties on the target's army, If the Hero randomly attacked and reach 0 HP, The same turn Battle will begin with the enemy hero being unconscious. Damage done = 25% of each Findan's Range attacker Green range damage.
- Gelu
- More to come...
[LLVRSC] Lore-Lover Section
This is something I rarely do, honestly, I have difficulty in expressing story into a writing. So it is an absolute non-Tolkein level, but hope you can like it. Anyway it is still on a game Idea Context so you will find event happening in a game as in-game explanation. Enjoy it!
[CMPGSTR] Campaign Stories
[TUTOR1A] Tutorial: Raise of the King
[TUTOCH1] Chapter 1: The Silver Sword
Here you will get a cutscene where a young man fight a middle age man in a sword play. In the end of the scene you will see that the young man is win. "Nice move, Roland" The middle age man told the young man. "You are getting old ey? sir Duncan" Roland reply while giving hand to Duncan. "[Laughing] yeah, and a King has to be strong, and your highness you can call me DUncan". "I am not your King, Duncan" Roland Replied. "Roland, this land need a king, a true successor of the royal bloodline, and you bearer of the Gryphonheart familiy name must be the one" Said Duncan, upon finishing, he unsheat his sword. "I hope so, Duncan" Said Roland with a hesiting voice "I have no army to begin with, the lords are far more powerful than a young man with no-army, those ambitions... I can't" but before Roland can finish his word, Duncan hastely answered as if he already know what his young companion trying to say "Then begin your quest! Marksman of Green Land, Swordsman of Talanis even the Slayers, they are now Neutral Forces. Unbound to any Lords" Duncan ensuring Roland. Roland stare at Duncan, eye to eye. "Let's do this" Roland reply while grabing his sword and put them on his waist
YOur first adventure here will begin you will be at Green Land and read the parchment left by Duncan "Roland, I know sir Conwell, he is once alligance to the Royal family until.. well the Queen destroying his faith by allying herself with the Undead but that is past story, I will try to persuade him to join us. First of all, you need to travel to tomb of the Kings, retrieve a Silver Sword once used by Nikolai our late King. With this you shall be able to use it as proof of your royal line, the Sword is held by a King Statue at the enterance, touch it, if you are a true royal line the sword will be released to your hand. Good Luck sire"
Here you will learn how to move your hero, end turn and looking at world map and point of interests like windmill etc. Here you will also experience your first battle versus a group of Bandit - neutral unit (with Roland as the only unit). Here Roland will adapt one of the normal hero title. Here you will got a detailed explaination like: How to use war skills, battle statistic, etc. Upon winning you will be greeted by a band of Crossbowman. They will agree to join you, during this event you will learn encountering, army screen and quest. The band of Crossbowman will join you only after you reach their campment. Upon reaching their campment, you will learn external Dwelling and recruiting units.
There will be cutscenes, the band of Crossbowmen and Marksmen will tell you not to go to the tomb of Kings because it is haunted and still undead roaming around upon Nikolai ressurection. Not to mention the demons and bandits. But Roland will insists, and with him following Crossbowmen and Marksmen (the result of recruiting tutorial). YOu will contiue your adventure here.
Arrived at the tombs at last just as the Crossbowen told you the undead still roams the place. A group of Peasants and Miltia which is the Castle lvl 1 will join you. Here you will learn Unit's Ability, Attributes and Finally the newly introduced Upkeep. You will overquote the upkeep but while fighting your way through the undead you will lost some peasants and crossbowmen and at the same time regaining your full upkeep. Last Word, you will win the battle, level up and learning about Leveling up, random general skill choice and war skill choice. A cutscene of ROland releasing the sword shown. The peasant and Crossbowmen looking at Roland with honor while Roland hold the Silver Sword, he then turn his head to the army behind him and found they already bow to him and then a scream of joy echoes something like "the King has returned!" End Of Chapter.
[TUTOCH2] Chapter 2: Sword of Talanis
A cutscenes showing a messanger, a Swordman come and report that Duncan already arrived at the land of the elves which is the haven of sir Conwell and his army of Cavalier. A Peasant will greet Roland and told him that the outpost at Talanis will be ready to use. Roland will continue his quest.
Here you will learn about castle, building them and recruiting heroes, units and upgrading units. Also you will learn the special unique Castle's Racial Skill: Promote and Counter attack, how to use them to your advantages.
Talanis filled with Lords one of them is Sir Rowan, an ex-renowned Swordman (normal Heroes). He command half of the Talanis Swordmen. You will learn how to flag mines and kinds of resources. YOur quest now will be recruiting (flaging) External Swordsman dwelling and Peasant's hut. During your quest, you will finally encounter scholars and enchanters, they will tell you that winning this civil wars can't be done only by Physical force but also with the help and guidance of other wisdom: Magic. They will teach you how to use magic and build magic guild.
After most of Talanis' Swordmen sworn their loyalty to you, you will encounter Sir Rowan. Here you will learn about Enemy Hero and how to beat them. You will fight against him and he will run away, next you need to encounter him at his castle and defeat him for good. Upon your fight at his castle, you will learn siege battle. The Scholars and Enchanters will come to your aid. You will win the battle and end the chapter.
[TUTOCH3] Chapter 3: Trial of the King
Here a historian and band of scholars will welcome you to the enlightment library. Their leader will tell you that true King must have a heart to learn the dark past. THus he sent you underground to the sub level of the great library. Here you will learn about underground, two ways and one way portal and artifacts (and heroes equipment). Here you will also got dwellings that is not of Castle's creatures. Here also tell you about morale and luck. Each Passed away gate you will learn a short flashback about the past events of Heroes V and DMoMM
At the end of the road you will stand at a very high cliff and in the faraway, you will be able to see the what was once a great human capital: The Stone Talon now lies in ruin, inhabited by demons. You will also learn the origin of Dark Messiah and Doom Star. Roland decided to take the capital back and return it to its glory.
You will then back at the place of the underground enterance before and told by the historian that a group of Wanderer (level 7 Castle Creature) usually gather at the guild and they are bounting on creatures, stronger better. Roland is told that wanderer is a group of highly experienced warriors who kills dragon for Sport. They remain neutral so far and adding them to your army will be benefit to the King although it won't be easy to do so.
YOu will be then marked a quest to the guild of the Wanderers and Slayers. Upon your arrival, a group of Wanderer lead by their leader a Slayer, sir Gallahan greet you. "Young man, if you value your life, turn back. No safe place for your kind here" Sir Gallahan a middle age man, muscleful and looks really tough. Here Roland see the wanderer with a symbol of their old King even before the age of Angels and Elrath. There are also band of Slayers a heavily armored Knight wielding 2-h Sword in both hands (each hand hold 1) not to mention they also looks like a towering Colosus with a size 1.5 of normal men. Roland draw his sword and said "I'm your king, This sword shall be the..." before Roland finished his word. Gallahan lowering Roland sword so that its tip touch ground. "Young man, you are the 10th man today bringing this toy and claiming you to be a royal blood" Said Gallahan while stare Roland with a sharp look. "Next time you try something stupid, please remember, we are Wanderes, Slayers, served the king since the day of fire, since the name of our kingdom is Falcon, and we know exactly the Silver Sword of the King will emits blue light whenever demons nearby" Sir Gallahan said it with a heavy voice as if trying to hold something that will be exploded inside him, releasing his hand of Roland and his Sword, Gallahan leave Roland and said "Your Sword is fake!! this place is full of demons, we fight them everyday as our breakfast yet your sword remain still". "Wait!" Roland yell at Gallahan, "I am not an impostor, I swear.." "Swear on what!! Your god? Elrath? or your Saint?" Gallahan quickly replied in a undoubtly angry tone. "when the late King Ivan disband us in the omni-presence of Angels and Arch Angels we still fighting in the name of the King? When your god and your so-called saint Isabel failed you we keep on fighting, repelling undeads and alike!!! When your King Fall to the demon Lord Agrael we return his body to the tomb, we the one who put the sword back to its rightful resting place until the day of the next King" Gallahan take a small breath and continue "now, you a young man who still wet his pants come to us and claiming that you are our King??? Alright then, proof it! proof your so-called King Skill. Fight me fair and square!!!" Gallahan said it while unseathe both his 2-H Swords and take a fighting stance and a battle commence.
Here you will learn about Duel a 1 on 1 Hero vs Hero battle. How it will effect the upcoming true battle with armies etc. However, fighting Gallahan despite his appearance, he is just a normal heroes so this is a Normal Heroes vs Normal Heroes and it shouldn't be a problem with Silver Sword in your hand (it grant you a yummy stats booster). In the end you will will win.
Gallahan trying to stand, helped by his fellow Slayers and Wanderer. "Young man, quite a skill you got there, could it be that..." before Gallahan finished his word, a scream and an explosion interupt their moment. Roland's Sword shines a great blue light. And a band of Arch-Devil forcing their way slamming everything, laying waste on the camps and huts along their paths, until a band of Wanderer and Slayer interrupt but the Devils are keep coming in a great number. You will then commence a battle with your army of non-human (the result of your previous quest). with Only a Swarm of level 1 to 3 non-human army you will face a full force of: 30 Arch Devils, 20 Pit Lords, and a Swarm of their lower level units.
After 3-5 Roland's turn there will be cutscene, your non-human army will flee in fear of the demons, while Roland standing still facing this threat alone with a shining blue Sword in his hand. Gallahan stare at the young man with glorious expression, turn his face to wanderers and Slayers that surrounding him. "My brothers, yesterday we fought alone, we served no one. But today a young man has proven something we've been waiting for these Years. Finally!! we got a King to serve!!!! To ARMS MY BROTHER!!! Let not our king Fight alone!!! FOR THE KING!! LONG LIVE THE KING!!!!". Screen will change to battlefield with 5 stacks each contains 20 Slayers or 20 Wanderes enter and aid Roland, Gallahan will then enter also with 3 stacks each contains 20 Slayers, "My King, your will is our command". Here you will learn your last Tutorial Lesson a team battle. They are now completely under your command, enjoy it!!!
Upon winning, there will be cutscene where Gallahan bow in front of Roland. "My King, sorry for..". "No, my friend, I shall be the one who bow" Roland lower his body and said it with loud and clear voice "In the name of Gryphonheart, I humbly asked you to lend me your service". Roland then stand and look at the army of Wanderer and Slayer, Gallahan bow, lowering his body and said "It is an honor to serve under the King's Banner once more. LONG LIVE THE KING!!" all the wanderers and slayers do the same, they are bowing to Roland at the same time yelling the repeated voice "LONG LIVE THE KING!!"
Here your hero Roland will be upgraded to his what class he supposed to be, a Legendary Hero entitled: King, all his normal heroes war skill will be replaced with his legendary hero war skill. You will learn about them a bit and end the chapter.
[NVLKSTR] Story Telling (Origin, Reason, etc)
[WNDSLY] Wanderers and Slayers Origin
King Roland approach Gallahan outside his camp. "Sir Gallahan" Roland greet his companion. Gallahan replied "Yes my Lord, is there anything I can help?" while bowing his head a bit. "I wonder, you always said that Wanderers and Slayers have been always loyal to the Royal Family especially the King. But there are some glitches on that. Especially when you see what happened to The last King Nicolai and his Queen Isabel. I mean, how can you let Markal enter the tomb, aren't you around when that happened?". Gallahan sit near the fire outside his tent and start to tell the lore.
It was a very gloom night, it feels like forever since we put the Silver Sword back to the hand of the first King's Statue King Ivan. When two figure come across the gate to the King's tomb. Soon we gathering and halt them. It was very surprising that one of the figure turn out to be the Queen himself. We of course soon pardon for our rudeness. Suddenly the Queen insist that he need to enter the tomb. We of course hesitated and told her that the place is a sacred place even for King's Family. But before we can finish the word, the Queen rushed in and we in a confusion draw our swords and try to prevent them from entering.
However, out of our prediction, the Queen companion turn out to be a very powerful necromancer and we face a formidable opponent. In no time, a horde of Skeletons, ghosts and Liches surround us and make an opening for both Queen and her companion which turn out to be the Dead Lord himself Markal enter the Grave. During the confusion I gather a group of my fellow Slayers and Wanderers to make a way to the tomb by slashing through countless Skeletons. We lost several men but finally I and several Slayers made it through the heart of the Tomb.
We hardly believed it but before our very eyes, the suppose to be dead King bowing to the Dead Lord as if Markal is his master. It took us no time to realize what had happened, we draw our swords charging to the Dead Lord only to find that our very King himself block the way. We stopped, everyone was looking at each other not sure what will our next move be. We pledged to protect our King live or dead, fighting him means to break our own oath. But without fighting him, we will never be able to reach Markal. During our pause, Nicolai suddenly charging my way. I blocked his first attack but it was barely a block his hit is very strong for a deceased body.
During my struggling and a hard time blocking his Majesty attack. I give command to my fellow Slayers to protect the Queen and bring her to somewhere safe. Suddenly I feel my body weaken... MARKAL! he attacked me with dark Magic, In the end I found myself facing a powerful King still with his outstanding sword skill even in his deceased body and one of the most powerful Necromancer. Even in this Grave situation, I struggled my way but my limit was reached, I was passed away unconscious, in a blink of my last consciousness I saw my fellow wanderers and slayers charged their way in but that was the last thing I remembered. I woke up and got updated the situation that occur.
The first thing I learned was that the group that fought the undead horde get aid from mysteriously aided by a horde of demon army. The group that carried the Queen escaped the cave but they become the sudden target of the demon army. The surviving warriors split themselves with one group come to aid me, while the other tried to repel the demon attacking the Queen's group. The second thing I learned, that the Queen's group left no survivor from their wounds I was pretty sure they are under heavy attack by the demon not undead, and to make it worse we lost our Queen. In my grief I recalled the rest of the army and split them into two, the first group is under my lead, we will pursue the King and bring him back to where he belong although we never really sure how would that happened. The second group will pursue the Demon to bring back our queen...
[DMNARMR] Origin of the Demon Armors
My name is Aldebaran, Historian, Guru of the past wisdom. Today, I will tell you story today about Demonology. Demonology you say? Yes my child to learn the power of our enemy it is best to understand who they are.
In the early age of universe, Asha defeated Urgash with the help of her offspring and finally meet her final rest on the surface of the moon. Maybe you are wonder how come that even with the power of the elemental Dragons and Elder races, later human race that Urgash can still stood up in the struggle even almost defeat all of them?
The answer was hidden and said that only Dragon Knight and Sar Elam Disciples possesed the wisdom, however during my travel to the forbidden land and accidently ended up in the secret fotress of the Dragon Knight I had the obligation to learn a bit about them.
In the last parchment of the God War, It is said that Urgash is in the brink of defeat. In his final strugle, He create his first offsprings, yes, the equal power to the elemental Dragons in term of their power. The name was said in demon language but in human tongue it is read: Azkael, Asgaroth, Baphomet, Belial, Belzebub, Abbadon and Sammael. Each with their own unique features and weapon, for example Sammael and his largely sword tooth or the towering Baphomet. In the end, the clash of the godly war lead the force of Asha a victory, but it was barely a victory. Urgash was imprisoned in the hellish dimension people know it as Sheogh. The key to release the Hellish power is sealed inside the death star by Asha with her final power left, sent it far away from Ashan. Only by the combination of Order and Chaos that The death Star can be summoned and the seal can be released or destroyed.
What about their offsprings? All of them depended on the power of Urgash in order to maintain their life force. Due to the weakening Urgash and the drained power due to their strugle against the force of Asha, they almost met their final death.
The name Ahura was mentioned, the expert of weaponry and traitor of man, Urgash ordered his final will to imprisoned the soul of his offsprings in the artifact, sets of armor. Ahura worked 100 Years, giving partly imortality by Urgash, in Hellforge to fulfiled Urgash final wish, The armor mainly created using a crystalization of chaos flame, that requires years to forge, each of them was burning a bright pale red light, it was said that only by this medium Urgash can save his children from Final death. And thus, the ritual was made. The princes of demon find their final rest on the armor made by Ahura.
Each of this armor represent what they were. How they are look? It is dificult to even imagine it but all the armor has a glow of faint red and each has unique feature:
Sammael Armor: Thin, Mostly less feature than others. His signature weapon the dual fang was imbued in the form of dual blade that is burning. This represent Sammael as the youngest and the most agile of them with large fang as his main weapon.
Abbadon Armor: Larger with more "human" like armor. Abbadon is the only demon using Blade as his weapon, unlike others who had weapon as part of their body feature. His weapon of course the exact Blade he used in the war.
Belzebub Armor: Large armor with "wing-like" feature in the back. Its weapon is a large shield like gauntlet. This is Belzebub, the only Prince that command a winged batalion of Hell. But most of them are extinct, or at least that is what we believed. His signature shape was the large Wing he use as weapon.
Baphomet Armor: The largest of all Armor, some even will guess who is able to wear such armor. This armor is also the only armor with no "weapon" due to Baphomet towering feature when he was still a Devil Prince. His signature shape was the towering body, the largest and use pure brute strength to defeat his opponents.
Asgaroth Armor: Asgaroth Armor looks solid but it was said that it is the lightest of all. This armor weapon is a bow made of Asgaroth horn. Asgaroth's signature move was the ball of fire he launch, he was also recognized as Devil with the largest horn and occasionally use them as weapon in melee combat. Do you know horned demon? that is the only legacy of what is left of Asgaroth Hell Batalion.
Azkael Armor: The most powerful of them, Azkael armor said to shine the brightest. Its weapon is the crystalize of what Azkael use as Demon Prince. The 8 Chaos Orb. The Orbs was said to represent the darkest side of livings' heart. The Orb now is the main weapon of the armor set and it is orbiting the armor. During his fight as Demon Prince Azkael use this orbs to deliver massive damage to his enemies. When he was attacking, the orbs will shine brighter and brighter charging up their power, once charged, Azkael will release the orbs power in the form of a large blast that usually sweep everything on its path.
Where the armor now, you said? Some of our Heroes already saw two of them. Zehir, Godric, Findan and Realag saw Khal'beth. well he is wearing one of the armor. Which is the rumor said the reason he was entitled Sovereign . Which? He is wearing the Abbadon set and Raelag, well previously Agrael, he also wore one of them, Sammael armor it was. It is said that when Tieru released Agrael from the armor, it almost killed them both. When the ritual over, Tieru became very weak, it was said that this is the reason why Tieru, a Dragon Knight, the mightiest of his kin, killed easily by Biara. Yes, a very sad fact indeed.
How can I knew all these things? How I reached the secret fotress that even the Silver League Wizard failed to find? well my child that was another story for another time.
to be continued.......
---------------------------------------------------------------------End of Design
I know! Forget the identation really I am not good at documentation. Hey if you have pictures you can imagine for my thread don't hesitate to post me ok? the mail is sung4n@gmail.com (I forgot what mail account I use when sign up on this forum).
I will hopefully update it as new idea comes to my tiny little brain but hey, great wall is not build in 1 day.
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted March 26, 2009 12:23 PM |
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...Heroes 3 with slightly other factions and fighting heroes?
Well, that's just my first impression, though
The lgendary hero idea is new to me, but not world-moving. The juggernaut-idea seems bad to me, it would make the one who finds the grail even more undefeatable, if I get it right...
phoenix continuing into a faction you see as a gameplay feature? 
But i see, your concept is just at the beginning i didn't mean to offend you
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted March 26, 2009 07:50 PM |
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Quote:
...Heroes 3 with slightly other factions and fighting heroes?
Well, that's just my first impression, though
.....
But i see, your concept is just at the beginning i didn't mean to offend you
To be quite honest that is the same vibe I'm getting here.
It seems like you want to take the story and graphics of Heroes V and pour them into the mould of Heroes III. (Which goes around a lot on this forum and others) I have to admit that I like V better than III, it makes a whole lot more sense storywise and it's strategy is deeper in my opinion. (Though I feel this way after TotE)
On the other hand there are a few ideas in there that I realy like. Several Human Factions seems reasonable as Humans are the most numerous race in Ashan.
Minotaurs rebelling against the Dark Elves and usurping power from them.
Personally I would have worked it out differently. But this is a personal thing and I'm just voicing my opinion here, do with t what you will. Like Jiriki I'm not trying to offend you.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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admira
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted March 27, 2009 04:03 AM |
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Edited by admira at 05:19, 27 Mar 2009.
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Hey, thanks for replying
Never thought anyone will lolz.
Ok here we go. The idea is actually a hybrid of Heroes III, IV and V. I took everything I like from them and combine them.
As for Heroes V it took most of the idea from Heroes III, the Grail structure, heroes speciality, 7 lvl creature, as for original release: 1 upgrade each creature. So basically it is fair to say that taking Idea from Heroes V is almost identical to take idea from Heroes III. Anyway, the overall Idea is Heroes V the battle queue system is something that is great so I took them.
As for Heroes IV's Hero in combat I always thought it was a great idea but the idea they implement them on Heroes IV is just not right so hero in battle that I design now is more "reasonable" and In my imagination is "usable", as for spell combo, actually the idea is from here and I think it is cool.
As for new game-mechanic idea, I also added: Juggernaut (now I feel guilty, yes it will even more difficult to overtake castle with grail), Casting Range for spell caster, range attack limitation (actually I am planning on adding move attack on range attacker), upkeep and simultaneous army attack.
For spell casting's and range attack's range limitation, I think it will be easier to balance factions with more range attack and spell damage now will because they have to "move" their army in order to use their range advantages. Well I guess I need to write a detail game-mechanic. Just wait.
And finally upkeep. Upkeep is something that in my opinion a cool idea as people now will tend to use more heroes, there will be no more main hero, mine-flagging hero, troop delivery hero. Now all hero is able to participate as a true army. Well simply put a way to encourage people into using more heroes as battling hero not to mention that now each hero are unique in both models and capability.
As for Juggernaut and Legendary Heroes, they are just an idea that is Cool at first but need more testing to find it works or not.
Not trying to defend myself but I think you need to read overall idea thoroughly, it is not really a heroes III on heroes V settings. It has many new ideas (so it is not really fair to not even mention them and saying this is a Heroes III on Heroes V setting) and I need to know more of your opinions. So keep on posting. thanks anyway!
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted March 27, 2009 05:03 PM |
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I'd like to reply to a few things
Quote:
The idea is actually a hybrid of Heroes III, IV and V. I took everything I like from them and combine them.
This was quite obvious to me and I realise that V is already very similar to III. (Enough in my opinion)
But there are a few things I have to break to you that aren't that inovative in some points.
First of all your range-limitation. This is already there, with the Creatures with the Short Range (IV) / Range Penalty (V) "ability". This abilty is already given to several creatures in the past. This limited their shooting ability in almost exactly the way you describe. However I think that giving this "ability" to all shooters would make them quintessentialy useless. Besides the now implemented half-range vs normal range already does what you intend; ergo having to place your units strategicly to make good use of their ranged attack.
If this would make this more easily ballanced is debatable, I personnally have a very limited grasp of balance, so I would absolve from saying that it is unballanced or ballanced or makes this more easy. In my limited opinion it seems only to serve to make shooters less usefull instead of making them more tactical. This also counts for giving spell limitations for range, in my opinion.
Secondly your juggernaught Idea has been experimented with in the WoG mods for Heroes III. At the moment they serve as a second upgrade for the seventh tier, but I seem to recall that originally they would only be recruitable with a grailstructure in you town.
Thirdly I'd like to ask you why you have returned to two heroes per faction. And more importantly why Stronghold still only gets a might hero. I personaly liked the way it was in heroes II & V, with one hero per faction, either being might or magic.
Lastly on Mechanics, your combining spells is quite original but I think you need to elaborate more on this, because you seem to have a little trouble getting your point across on that issue in you post.
I personnally think that the game-mechanics of Heroes V was the best by far and with a bit more pollishing and ballancing it could have been perfect.
Ok, now for the fun stuff: STORY AND LORE. (Wel I think it's more fun than mechanics, also I do count units and unitbackgrounds as this) Note that I'm only asking questions, and I'd like the answers to reflect the story. So if you'd answer to a given question in this manner: "Because it was that way in Heroes x", I would like you to think how you would have explained this shift story wise.
First of all, I'd like to ask why you have decided to cut the dwarves out ?
Secondly, I'd like to ask why you moved the Centaurs to Dungeon ?
Thirdly on that same note, why did you return dungeon to be a mish-mash of subteranean creatures?
Fourthly, where do the Pyramid and Pagoda come from in Ashan ?
Fifthly, why would you combine three races into the pyramid faction ?
Lastly, why did you return Academy back to Tower ?
I know I might sound a little whiny on this. But like I said I'm more interested in story than in mechanics. Also I have said time and time again that I am a great supporter of the Racial unity that heroes V introduced, and I can be a bit stuck up about clinging to that.
I hope to read your answers on this soon. Also you have made me think about the way I would like to see Heroes VI. And I might post my ideas on this soon, but I have the nagging feeling that I don't feel like making this into a new post. So perhaps I will set up a project together with other people.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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admira
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted March 28, 2009 05:04 PM |
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Edited by admira at 17:11, 28 Mar 2009.
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ok now that's something to discuss
Before I answers your question, I need to remind you that this is a post of ideas from someone who is not related to the real game development (if there is any real Heroes 6 game development). As the Joker said "Why so serious?", this ideas can turn into a fun discussion or into a hot war of opinion. All depends on you ok?
First of all your range-limitation. This is already there, with the Creatures with the Short Range (IV) / Range Penalty (V) "ability". This abilty is already given to several creatures in the past. This limited their shooting ability in almost exactly the way you describe. However I think that giving this "ability" to all shooters would make them quintessentialy useless. Besides the now implemented half-range vs normal range already does what you intend; ergo having to place your units strategicly to make good use of their ranged attack.
If this would make this more easily ballanced is debatable, I personnally have a very limited grasp of balance, so I would absolve from saying that it is unballanced or ballanced or makes this more easy. In my limited opinion it seems only to serve to make shooters less usefull instead of making them more tactical. This also counts for giving spell limitations for range, in my opinion.
Ok, this happened because of the existance of heroes in combat. No matter how high your hero's lvl. A large amount stack of ranged attack creature will render them useless. Ok this is maybe a little difficult but you must see this in a very different point of view:
1. Heroes are now in battle you didn't want to turn this creature as heroes disabler but of course this requires more in-depth researh whether it is worked or not
2. I didn't want to add consumable items for heroes the last time they use them at Heroes IV it turns Heroes into one man army which ruin the overall gameplay.
3. That's why in this idea, the Heroes have limited amount of days when they travel without army
4. When this principles implemented (and didn't work as you imply), Large creature doesn't exists, meaning tanking your range attacker is much more difficult but not now with their presence, you may easily tanking your range attacker and at the same time do the "strategical positioning" and still fun to play with. Thus the principles of making the hero actively involved in battle is still possible.
Secondly your juggernaught Idea has been experimented with in the WoG mods for Heroes III. At the moment they serve as a second upgrade for the seventh tier, but I seem to recall that originally they would only be recruitable with a grailstructure in you town.
Yeah, it is a cool idea at first glimpse but really need experiment to see whether they add fun or hum. Agree?
Thirdly I'd like to ask you why you have returned to two heroes per faction. And more importantly why Stronghold still only gets a might hero. I personaly liked the way it was in heroes II & V, with one hero per faction, either being might or magic.
There are many reason for this:
1. Fairly speaking now that every hero is distinct, with this every faction will have at least 2 kind of style to play with: high magic power and magic combo? or large size army for the upkeep reason. The limit of this faction is more magic, the other is more might will be broken but every faction now can be played as both. Necromancer might want to play as Death Knight because they will be able to necromancy more army due to their higher upkeep gain, meanwhile other might choose to use necromancer and their special unique combo magic in summoning creatures or manipulating death and curse.
2. Story telling also gain advantages in this: Gustav doesn't necessary to be a Knight. He is phisically weak (as he is King Roland's Strategist) but his intellectual capability in form of more tactical advantages and of course unique war skills. Anyway, it is more realistic to have him as Alchemist type rather than Knight type.
3. Of couse a combination skills of choice will be differ and add more in-depth strategy on them and every faction might do everything rather than "I might learn x because this faction is might based"
etc I guess
Lastly on Mechanics, your combining spells is quite original but I think you need to elaborate more on this, because you seem to have a little trouble getting your point across on that issue in you post.
Affirmitive, I will add more detail soon (I can't promise you the date but yes, I will)
I personnally think that the game-mechanics of Heroes V was the best by far and with a bit more pollishing and ballancing it could have been perfect.
Can't agree with you more. Unique racial skill, battle queue method, a relatively nice story.
Ok, now for the fun stuff: STORY AND LORE. (Wel I think it's more fun than mechanics, also I do count units and unitbackgrounds as this) Note that I'm only asking questions, and I'd like the answers to reflect the story. So if you'd answer to a given question in this manner: "Because it was that way in Heroes x", I would like you to think how you would have explained this shift story wise.
Agree, let's move on
First of all, I'd like to ask why you have decided to cut the dwarves out ?
actually not cut them, only that the current Heroes V Dwarven faction is not really on my taste. My imagination about Dwarven stuck at them as part of the norse myth with Giants, Valkyries and Einherjar but really If I'm doing this people will start to scream that I am copying too much from Disciples. So, not cut them, only that I haven't found the right ingreadient for them. Maybe in the expansion
Secondly, I'd like to ask why you moved the Centaurs to Dungeon ?
Because I feel that they fit more in dungeon rather than in Barbarian faction. Of course there will be Lores to tell about this.
Thirdly on that same note, why did you return dungeon to be a mish-mash of subteranean creatures?
As many opinions I agree with, Dungeon filled with bikini babes, high heels, net dressed because of their matriachal nature are not really fit or appropriate (this one is my personal opinion). But when you are talking about savageous subterran creatures, warlocks, and rogues you find that Dungeon should be their home (at least in my personal opinion). That's why the dark elven's rogue, warlock and assassin remain there
Fourthly, where do the Pyramid and Pagoda come from in Ashan ?
Sorry this is my bad. I supposed to tell the story deeper about them. But I think I save this for later.
Fifthly, why would you combine three races into the pyramid faction ?
Same as above lack of lore telling. Later ok?
Lastly, why did you return Academy back to Tower ?
Just a mater of personal taste, I guess. Should I rename it into Academy?
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted March 28, 2009 05:13 PM |
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The question of whether Heroes III has a better/worse storyline than Heroes V isn't a matter of opinion. It's like asking if Metal Gear Solid has a better story than Zero Wing.
Admira, looks like interesting work, but I find some parts a bit dull and other parts difficult to read through. Maybe with better syntax it'd be more readable.
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted March 28, 2009 06:23 PM |
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Quote:
First of all, I'd like to ask why you have decided to cut the dwarves out ?
actually not cut them, only that the current Heroes V Dwarven faction is not really on my taste. My imagination about Dwarven stuck at them as part of the norse myth with Giants, Valkyries and Einherjar but really If I'm doing this people will start to scream that I am copying too much from Disciples. So, not cut them, only that I haven't found the right ingreadient for them. Maybe in the expansion
Dwarves put in in a bad way are better than no dwarves at all, imo. even the heroes1,2+3 dwarves in the natureish/elvish towns were better than no dwarves. In my imagination, dwarves are a mountain/underground folk, and not an almost nordic one like in V (don't wanna fix, though, haven't played the HoF Campaigns)
Quote:
Secondly, I'd like to ask why you moved the Centaurs to Dungeon ?
Because I feel that they fit more in dungeon rather than in Barbarian faction. Of course there will be Lores to tell about this.
...the problem I see here is the following: Dungeon, at least as in H5 and 3, is an underground town, and centaurs are amongst the creatures I can least imagine undergrounds - beings who are (to me) symbolic more for freedom and vast lands, not for small, firty and steep tunnels. Yet I'm not sure wether you mentioned if your dungeon should be underground...allthough it's kind of included in the name
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted March 28, 2009 09:37 PM |
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Two heroes per faction is interesting, but what if we were to make the whole thing more RPGish, where you are able to select which skill you want to upgrade (both primary and secondary), or perhaps even just receive two skill points to spend how you like (upgrade two primary skills, a single primary skill twice, learn two different secondaries, etc.).
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted March 28, 2009 11:07 PM |
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Quote:
Before I answers your question, I need to remind you that this is a post of ideas from someone who is not related to the real game development (if there is any real Heroes 6 game development). As the Joker said "Why so serious?", this ideas can turn into a fun discussion or into a hot war of opinion. All depends on you ok?
Oh you must have misunderstood me, I knew full well that you are, just like me, a fan of heroes just voicing your opinion. Also I am of intention to turn this into a fun discussion, not into a flame-war.
Also I will lean towards story, units and lore in my part, because frankly I don't find mechanics all that interesting. I now kind of understand why you would use range-limitations because of the battlefield heroes. I personally liked them better in V, where they were active commanders, but your entitled to your preference.
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Thirdly on that same note, why did you return dungeon to be a mish-mash of subteranean creatures?
As many opinions I agree with, Dungeon filled with bikini babes, high heels, net dressed because of their matriachal nature are not really fit or appropriate (this one is my personal opinion). But when you are talking about savageous subterran creatures, warlocks, and rogues you find that Dungeon should be their home (at least in my personal opinion).
I fully agree with you here, I think the Dark Elves as a general as a cheap and cliché solution for Dungeon. That is why I liked the idea of a Minotaur Rebbelion very much. But in my opinion they should wipe-out and replace the Dark Elves all-together. And I agree that Dungeon should be a place of shadow, warlockery and nasty creatures, but Minotaurs can suit that role perfectly so I say that Dark Elves should be kick-out alltogether.
Also I would like to know why you wanted to replace the racial unity that kept the original dungeon together, with a cobled-together bush or random creatures, instead of replacing it with a new main-race?
Also I agree with Jiriki, that Centaurs suit the open plains more than caves. Also Centaurs originally (Greek Mythology) were a barberic race of raiders, brawlers and drunks; so teaming with the Barberic Orcs seems like a match made in heaven. But I'd like to hear why you think they suit the Warlocks more.
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actually not cut them, only that the current Heroes V Dwarven faction is not really on my taste. My imagination about Dwarven stuck at them as part of the norse myth with Giants, Valkyries and Einherjar but really If I'm doing this people will start to scream that I am copying too much from Disciples. So, not cut them, only that I haven't found the right ingreadient for them. Maybe in the expansion
||Dwarves put in in a bad way are better than no dwarves at all, imo. even the heroes1,2+3 dwarves in the natureish/elvish towns were better than no dwarves. In my imagination, dwarves are a mountain/underground folk, and not an almost nordic one like in V (don't wanna fix, though, haven't played the HoF Campaigns)
They way dwarves are now depicted, they seem not to be able to decide if they want to be Norse/Vikings or Gealic Highlanders. I can't say I know Disciples, but just about every fantasy setting seems either indecisive like this or leaning towards/adhering to the Norse side. I personnally would like to see a Dwarf-faction geared towards the Gealic side. I would agree that Dwarves should be partially and Underground race, but this would not neceserally disagree with the Gealic direction.
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Lastly, why did you return Academy back to Tower ?
Just a mater of personal taste, I guess. Should I rename it into Academy?
I would advise to do so for the sake of continuity.
@Cepheus; I have neither played Metal Gear Solid nor Zero Wing, your not making very much sense. If you like III better, just say so. I do not agree, but you're entitled to your opinion.
Thank you Admira for letting me work here.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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admira
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted April 05, 2009 07:10 AM |
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Sorry guys, Database programmer's job at End of Month and Begin of Month are completely nightmare. I barely sleep myself but here I return. Hopefully bring you something you like.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted April 05, 2009 08:52 AM |
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You have some good ideas there War-overlord, but your factions seem (to me) a bit disjointed (less so the Ziggurat, but even there there are a few problems), rather like towns from the earlier games which tend to be just groups of creatures slapped together without real though (Harpies underground for example, Dwarves with Elves, or Gnolls in the otherwise scaly fortress), like the tiger with the Naga.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted April 05, 2009 11:20 AM |
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Quote:
You have some good ideas there War-overlord, but your factions seem (to me) a bit disjointed (less so the Ziggurat, but even there there are a few problems), rather like towns from the earlier games which tend to be just groups of creatures slapped together without real though (Harpies underground for example, Dwarves with Elves, or Gnolls in the otherwise scaly fortress), like the tiger with the Naga.
Oh, Please, tell more. I'd love to hear you thoughts on this. Please elaborate on this as much as you think nessecary. Try to be clear in your arguments though, as I seem to have a habit of misinterpretating people.
I agree that coupling the Tiger with the Naga is quite dodgy, but at the time I could not think of a 2nd tier that fit both the asian theme as wel as the water theme, so I went with the tiger that at least fit the asian theme.
Also, please say if the disjointedness applies only to the new factions including the Dungeon remake, or to all additions to the existing factions.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted April 05, 2009 12:18 PM |
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Edited by MattII at 22:45, 05 Apr 2009.
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Quote:
Try to be clear in your arguments though, as I seem to have a habit of misinterpretating people.
I'll do my best, although for some reason I tend to get misinterpreted a lot, so it might not be you.
Quote:
I agree that coupling the Tiger with the Naga is quite dodgy, but at the time I could not think of a 2nd tier that fit both the asian theme as wel as the water theme, so I went with the tiger that at least fit the asian theme.
What about a snake (Boa -> Python/Typan, constrict small units - constrict big units/constrict small unit + poison), just to fit in with the general serpenty feel of the Naga faction? I'd also replace the Composite Bow with something more like Chakram, with one upgrade able to bounce it off one target onto another, and the other having a yin/yang chakram and no melee penalty, and move the Ronin and Water-Priest up a space (drop the war-tortoise), and slip a Medusa (call them 'cursed' or something) in at level 4.
As for the Ziggurat, I'd drop the Serpent Fly, move the Spearman down to tier 1 (under the name of Hunter or some such), and create a swordsman or something at tier 3. I'd also drop the Packlizard, move the Dragoon and Suchosaur down a tier and put a mumakil-style archer platformed Brachiosaurus (or some other massive sauropod) at tier 8, with the upgrade options of either a big ballista, or a catapult.
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Also, please say if the disjointedness applies only to the new factions including the Dungeon remake, or to all additions to the existing factions.
Oh don't worry, it applies to old factions as well (most notably Academy, but also Stronghold with the Centaur, and Necropolis with the Vampire).
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted April 05, 2009 03:00 PM |
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Quote:
What about a snake (Boa -> Python/Typan, constrict small units - constrict big units/constrict small unit + poison), just to fit in with the general serpenty feel of the Naga faction?
Ah, but that will conflict with several other things. First of all, the serpent theme is tertiary at best and snakes don't realy fit them, that's also the reason why I was going to replace the current 7th tier.
Also this comes in conflict with another very strong belief I have and that is that it must be made plausible that the units will fight for the hero. And there is no way you can make snakes fight for you. Tigers are trainable from birth, because they have reasonable intelligence, snakes do not.
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I'd also replace the Composite Bow with something more like Chakram, with one upgrade able to bounce it off one target onto another, and the other having a yin/yang chakram and no melee penalty
I think I've told you before in another thread before, but I realy dislike throwing weapon that can be use against you. This goes for throwing axes, knives and shurikens as wel, but seems exrtemely risky throw something at your enemy that his buddy could throw back at you. The exeption to this rule is throwingspears(javelins etc.), because they more often then not(Most are even disgined to do this) loose their heads once you pull them out of a body, leaving you with a stick.
Also Chakrams that rebound seem very implausible, because the way I understand it they are supposed to function is to use their spinning motion to cut deeply or through the target. Now cutting through the target causes disks like that to loose just about all their kinetic energy during this proces. Therefor cutting through multiple targets would require so much throwing power, it'd be physiccally impossible for an human or humanoid for that matter to exert that kind of force.
Third Chakrams are a weapon use by the people of India, I'm sorry for not being clearer on this, but by Asian I ment the Far-East: Japanese, Korean or Chinese, that kind of thing.
Lastly, I think you are confusing a Compound bow(Which uses pulleys and string to generate the force) with a Composite bow(Which uses several materials,like wood, horn and tendon, to construct a rigid yet flexible bow). Now the compoundbow is a traditional way of bowmaking in the Far East. And I named the Gungdo Bowman | Kyudo Bowman after the Korean and Japanese art of Achery respectively.
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slip a Medusa (call them 'cursed' or something) in
Even cursed, Medusa's realy conflict with Far-Eastern Theme first, and slightly with the Water theme second. Third, I intended the Naga to be a Good/Neutral faction, so Cursed units would conflict with that as wel.
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I'd drop the Serpent Fly, move the Spearman down to tier 1 (under the name of Hunter or some such), and create a swordsman or something at tier 3.
Now that is something I might do. However that would leave me a tiny bit short on flyers.
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I'd also drop the Packlizard, move the Dragoon and Suchosaur down a tier and put a mumakil-style archer platformed Brachiosaurus (or some other massive sauropod) at tier 8, with the upgrade options of either a big ballista, or a catapult.
Now that is exactly what I was trying to avoid here. I wasn't trying to create an archerplatform, but I was trying to create mobile artillery, which can be deployed and moved fast. And while sauropods are definitly mobile, they are very cumbersome and cannot be deployed fast, makeing them more suited heavy artillery.
Oh don't worry, it applies to old factions as well (most notably Academy, but also Stronghold with the Centaur, and Necropolis with the Vampire).
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Oh don't worry, it applies to old factions as well (most notably Academy, but also Stronghold with the Centaur, and Necropolis with the Vampire).
I already stated why I think Centaurs are in their perfect place, but I'd love to hear your ideas on this.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted April 05, 2009 10:35 PM |
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Edited by MattII at 22:44, 05 Apr 2009.
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Quote:
Also this comes in conflict with another very strong belief I have and that is that it must be made plausible that the units will fight for the hero. And there is no way you can make snakes fight for you. Tigers are trainable from birth, because they have reasonable intelligence, snakes do not.
We're talking about a game with magic in it, and you're talking about 'plausible'?
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I think I've told you before in another thread before, but I realy dislike throwing weapon that can be use against you. This goes for throwing axes, knives and shurikens as wel, but seems exrtemely risky throw something at your enemy that his buddy could throw back at you.
It wasn't me you told, but I can go with that, although for this being a single-faction weapon I fail how anyone else could use it effectively, I mean they're not like crossbow bolts which could be used by pretty much anyone with a crossbow.
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Also Chakrams that rebound seem very implausible, because the way I understand it they are supposed to function is to use their spinning motion to cut deeply or through the target. Now cutting through the target causes disks like that to loose just about all their kinetic energy during this proces. Therefor cutting through multiple targets would require so much throwing power, it'd be physiccally impossible for an human or humanoid for that matter to exert that kind of force.
I must admit I pulled that one straight fron Xena: Warrior Princess (first time I ever saw a chakram), and evidently didn't put enough thought into it.
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Third Chakrams are a weapon use by the people of India, I'm sorry for not being clearer on this, but by Asian I ment the Far-East: Japanese, Korean or Chinese, that kind of thing.
Ah, right, I guess I always think of Nagas as having an Indian culture, because it was the indians who originally invented them.
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Lastly, I think you are confusing a Compound bow(Which uses pulleys and string to generate the force) with a Composite bow(Which uses several materials,like wood, horn and tendon, to construct a rigid yet flexible bow). Now the compoundbow is a traditional way of bowmaking in the Far East.
I don't think I am, I can't find any record of the compound bow exist pre 1960s, although the composite bow has been around for centuries.
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Even cursed, Medusa's realy conflict with Far-Eastern Theme first, and slightly with the Water theme second. Third, I intended the Naga to be a Good/Neutral faction, so Cursed units would conflict with that as wel.
Okay, I can see that, although there's no reason Medusas have to be bad, that's just the way we think of them.
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Now that is something I might do. However that would leave me a tiny bit short on flyers.
Cue Dungeon and Inferno, it's possible to make a good faction with only one flyer (and they don't get them till tier 7).
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Now that is exactly what I was trying to avoid here. I wasn't trying to create an archerplatform, but I was trying to create mobile artillery, which can be deployed and moved fast. And while sauropods are definitly mobile, they are very cumbersome and cannot be deployed fast, makeing them more suited heavy artillery.
Fair enough.
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I already stated why I think Centaurs are in their perfect place, but I'd love to hear your ideas on this.
Well it might be a bit cliched now, but what about pulling Goblins on wolves (as in H3), or Orcs on wargs (Originally from Norse mythology, not Tolkien, although in this case they'd be a sort of Hell Hound/Hell Charger/horse hybrid)
BTW, which thread was that statement in?
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted April 06, 2009 12:14 PM |
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We're talking about a game with magic in it, and you're talking about 'plausible'?
Can anyone explain to me why everbody immediatly chucks logic and plausibility out of the window when they hear the word "Magic". I know magic can cause terific feats, but using magic in forms of explaination for just about everything is in my opinion a cheap, unimaginative and plain ol' lazy choice.
If in anyway possible I will try to make thing plausible and not use magic to explain things. I'd actualy rather discard an idea then use magic to explain things.
Also it might just be me, but I get the feel that the writers actualy made clear how magic works in Ashan implicit it may be. The way I understand it, magic is the essence of the Gods. It is used either by the disciples and chosen of the Gods, or by the gifted who found a way to "tap" this very essence.
(This also gives me a convenient way of discarding magic as explaination for implausible stuff)
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It wasn't me you told, but I can go with that, although for this being a single-faction weapon I fail how anyone else could use it effectively, I mean they're not like crossbow bolts which could be used by pretty much anyone with a crossbow.
Ah, but that's where you're wrong. Being able to do damage with a weapon and throwing something with skill ar two completly different things. If your buddy got downed by a throwing knife, you could still use the knife. Even if you might not be able to throw it back at it's original owner, you could still use it as a slashing and stabbing weapon. I'll admit that I put a little to much emphasis on the throwing back aspect, but the main point is that you leave usable weapons stuck in bodies and those may be used against you.
Also I think I told this to you last september, when I unsuccesfully tried to revive the Perfect Temple Thread.
Also on the crossbow-bolts, you're making a error in your reasoning there. Aside from the fact that a given bolt most likely is not of the right size for a given crossbow. Like spears, arrows and bolts have the nasty habit of loosing their head when you yank them out of a body. Making you effectively pull out sticks, again. Also arrows and bolts have the habbit of snapping at the shaft, leaving you with an even more usesless broken stick.
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Ah, right, I guess I always think of Nagas as having an Indian culture, because it was the indians who originally invented them.
I think it was the Vietnamese, Thai and the other people of the Mekong-delta, who "invented" the Naga, but I might be wrong.
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Okay, I can see that, although there's no reason Medusas have to be bad, that's just the way we think of them.
No, I think Medusa and her Gorgon sisters have always been vicious, eating-people-when-they-didn't-turn-them-into-stone, swampdwelling, horrible monsters. We see them as evil beings because that is what they were.
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Well it might be a bit cliched now, but what about pulling Goblins on wolves (as in H3), or Orcs on wargs (Originally from Norse mythology, not Tolkien, although in this case they'd be a sort of Hell Hound/Hell Charger/horse hybrid)
So if I understand correctly, your objection for Centaurs being in the Stronghold-faction is that they shouldn't be their cavalry. If that is the case, then I agree with you completely. The Orcs should have their own Cavalry Forces, which is exactly the reason why I gave my new Stronghold the Auroch Riders. The Centaurs should be "mounted" Archers and that's how they are being, unsuccesfully depicted in V; even though the descriptions say that they are cavalry.
Lastly I've made a few changes to Keep and Ziggurat, tell me what you think 'o them.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted April 06, 2009 01:21 PM |
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Can anyone explain to me why everbody immediatly chucks logic and plausibility out of the window when they hear the word "Magic". I know magic can cause terific feats, but using magic in forms of explaination for just about everything is in my opinion a cheap, unimaginative and plain ol' lazy choice.
True, but who's to say that Snakes in Ashan are as unbiddable as real-world snakes, I mean, look at the Wyvern, surely that would seem to be too wild to be tamed, or what about the dungeon's Dark-Rider mounts?
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Ah, but that's where you're wrong. Being able to do damage with a weapon and throwing something with skill ar two completly different things. If your buddy got downed by a throwing knife, you could still use the knife. Even if you might not be able to throw it back at it's original owner, you could still use it as a slashing and stabbing weapon.
It's rather superfluous of course given the far-eastern theme you chose for the Naga, but a knife has a handle, whereas a chakram doesn't, making it about as useless a melee weapon as a ranged weapon in the hands of the untrained.
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Like spears, arrows and bolts have the nasty habit of loosing their head when you yank them out of a body. Making you effectively pull out sticks, again. Also arrows and bolts have the habbit of snapping at the shaft, leaving you with an even more usesless broken stick.
Crossbows were used primarily against armour, thus, they had the minimum possible head area to maximise the penetration (unlike hunting arrows which had much wider heads to open larger wounds), and thus, would not have been difficult to extract. Crossbow bolts also tended to be shorter but heavier, as a result of the crossbow having a shorter but more powerful draw, and would be thus less likely to break than an arrow.
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No, I think Medusa and her Gorgon sisters have always been vicious, eating-people-when-they-didn't-turn-them-into-stone, swampdwelling, horrible monsters. We see them as evil beings because that is what they were.
*sigh* And Vampires have always been Dracula-esqe. That is the modern perception, in the old Greek traditions her image was used as a ward 'against' evil, much like the crucifix is today in Christian cultures.
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So if I understand correctly, your objection for Centaurs being in the Stronghold-faction is that they shouldn't be their cavalry.
Actually, my objection is their being in the first place, they have six limbs, while all the creatures in both their own faction and their 'founding faction' (Inferno) have four. Or course there are other creatures around with six limbs, but they're all domesticated rather than created (barring the Rakshasa, which are magical).
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Lastly I've made a few changes to Keep and Ziggurat, tell me what you think 'o them.
Definite improvements, definite improvements.
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flackmandan
Known Hero
Veni,Vidi,Vichi
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posted April 06, 2009 09:30 PM |
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i hvnt read the replys so dont get me rong about this^^.if u have said something bad about this their is something wrong with you.
i think this is a good idea so keep at it,i hope to see more of your ideas in the future.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted April 06, 2009 10:52 PM |
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True, but who's to say that Snakes in Ashan are as unbiddable as real-world snakes, I mean, look at the Wyvern, surely that would seem to be too wild to be tamed, or what about the dungeon's Dark-Rider mounts?
Hate to break it to you, but the Wyverns aren't tamed. Wyverns choose to ally themselves with Orcs. As said in their description, Wyverns are degenerated Dragons and we know that in Ashan Dragons posses more intelligence than mortals due to them being demigods. Now it is highly likely that they lost a good deal of their intelligence due to this degenreation, but they very obviously choose not to hurt Orcs and, though it isn't said directly, voluntaraly have Orcs train them and handle their eggs.
This may also apply to Hydras, though they are actually enslaved by the Dark Elves.
Now the Dark Rider-lizard is a whole different matter. They don't fight voluntaraly, but they are consantly guided by their riders. The reason that they fight is because they are forced so by their Intelligent riders and the would probably run away or turn on their rider given the chance.
Now we come to snakes. It seems obvious that snakes cannot be ridden, unless they are more than 1,5 meters in thickness. Now given a snake of that size, it would be large enough to at least swallow sheep whole at least. It would be extremly dangerous to try to tame a snake that size.
Now come the second option, snake handlers. Now I don't know about you, but having Naga guiding snakes on a leash seems like a silly idea. Not only would it look fairly rediculous, but why would one guide snakes to do the fighting if the Naga themselves could probably do a more effective job.
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It's rather superfluous of course given the far-eastern theme you chose for the Naga, but a knife has a handle, whereas a chakram doesn't, making it about as useless a melee weapon as a ranged weapon in the hands of the untrained.
Now unless I have seen pictures that aren't representative, a Chakram is a metal ring that is sharpend all around. The original ones used by the Sikh people are are just that a ring and the Sikhs used them both for throwing and melee combat by holding them and slashing with them. Now I've even seen a picture of the one Xena is holding, on wikipedia, and that one has a handle in the middle for making it throw more easily and that same handle would also make more easy to slash with it.
I wholly agree that throwing one of these unskilled is practically useless. But a sharp metal edge is always a dangerous, cause you don't need skill to cut someone with that.
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Crossbows were used primarily against armour, thus, they had the minimum possible head area to maximise the penetration (unlike hunting arrows which had much wider heads to open larger wounds), and thus, would not have been difficult to extract. Crossbow bolts also tended to be shorter but heavier, as a result of the crossbow having a shorter but more powerful draw, and would be thus less likely to break than an arrow.
While you are completly correct when talking about the crossbows use in the late Middle Ages, there are many more variations of crossbows. It is known that Crossbows were used in Asia from at least 500 BC and in Ancient Greece from at least 300. Most of these were used as hunting and anti-personel weapons and as such had broad heads.
I agree that crossbow bolts tend to be more thick and short, making it harder to break the shaft of the bolt. However, because the crossbow delivers more kinetic energy upon impact, this impact may well weaken the bolt itself and it will snap after reapeted use.
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That is the modern perception, in the old Greek traditions her image was used as a ward 'against' evil, much like the crucifix is today in Christian cultures.
No, that is not comperable. The crucifix is a holy item, which wards evil away as it is a sign of God.
Medusa's image was indeed used as a ward against evil, that much is true. However, this has a wholly different reasoning behind it. The image of Medusa was used as a Gargoyle used to be. Namely to scare evil away with her uglyness. Or in the other way it is explained, this goes for gargoyles as wel as medusa's image, that they ward evil because they are evil themselves, by letting evil spirit know that they need not bother because they are "haunting" the inhabitants already themselves.
Now the reason while Medusa is seen as Evil are two.
One is that Medusa and her sisters are daughters of Echinda and Typhon, the couple who spawned just about every monster in Greek Mythology. Or they are the daughters of Phorcys and Ceto, two vicious seamonsters. Either way they are monsterspawn doing what monsterspawn do, evil.
The other explaination is that Medusa was a maiden who desecrated a temple of Athena by seducing and bedding Poseidon. For this Athena punished Medusa by transforming her into a gorgon and placing her with the two existing gorgons. While being a gorgon, Medusa continued to defy and insult the Gods, by killing their followers and again managing to seduce and bed Poseidon and even getting pregnant from him, presumably to produce more gorgons to defy the Gods. Her defiance to the Gods is her reason for being evil in this explaination. So which ever way you look at it Medusa has always been seen as evil.
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Actually, my objection is their being in the first place, they have six limbs, while all the creatures in both their own faction and their 'founding faction' (Inferno) have four. Or course there are other creatures around with six limbs, but they're all domesticated rather than created (barring the Rakshasa, which are magical).
So, I may misinterprate you again and if so please say, but your objection to Centaurs is the fact that they are humanoid torsos with horse bodies.
Now I may be threading a beaten path here, but you are aware of the fact that the Centaurs are the result of grafting Humans/Orcs (not sure her, could be either) onto Nightmares. Their existance is due to fact that this possibly was the only way to cross Humans/Orcs with Nightmares without them dying during the proces.
And if this is not the case, why do you consider having six limbs to be objectable.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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