|
| Thread: About Politics: Socialism |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 · «PREV |
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
posted April 24, 2009 07:48 AM |
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
Which would simply be as it is now, except there was only the national bank.
Except private banks take a risk whenever they give out a loan. Not so for the government - if it's not paid back, or if it just proves unprofitable - no problem! Just raise taxes or print more money.
You have to alter your perspective. The government is the focal point of the society it governs. Ultimately money and value in every society (and we had this discussion elsewhere) is built on TRUST (in the ability of the body of society) to whether all storms and to prosper and grow. Why do you think the government would give everyone a lone, no matter what? That would ultimately ruin everything, since in that case no one would work, but simply lend money and try to live off it. So the government - a centralized bank - would have the same checks than a private bank, but with notable exceptions: for example, there wouldn't be loans to buy other companies, and this alone would reduce general company debts massively. Moreover a governmental bank wouldn't give unfavorable loans.
Anyway, in a general loss situation, yes, losses are covered, because the government (society) can make up for the money.
And this is exactly what happens currently, with one big difference: the government is doing it in the name of the people, but it's not getting what it should get for it: if the people pay for it than things should be fully nationalized; running things into ruin is something we don't need to pay some people big money for
Quote:
Quote:
In fact it's complete liberty and in no way differenet from how it is now except that the actual rules would be different.
Except now you can just move to a different country - you wouldn't have to abandon civilization.
A social service won't work on a voluntary basis because a service is something that has to be guaranteed. It doesn't matter whether a social service is payed from taxes or separately. For example:
You pay 40% taxes -> social services are included and free (for example public health in britain)
You pay 35% taxes + 5% for social services (and public health is financed from that 5%).
That means, IF a society decides on granting a social service it must be a dependable thing, otherwise it's useless. Which means, that one way or another people have to make a contribution, so society can afford that service.
Surprisingly enough, I guess, this process is called "civilization". If you want to move to a country where social services are "voluntary", you are leaving - or abandoning - civilization anyway.
|
|
del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
|
|
posted April 24, 2009 08:25 AM |
|
|
Quote:
Except private banks take a risk whenever they give out a loan. Not so for the government - if it's not paid back, or if it just proves unprofitable - no problem! Just raise taxes or print more money.
Banks takes no risk at all. Unless the law is forcing them to having a high chance of bankrupting themself, or the people running it are really stupid(example is no safeing for loans).
To look at it another way, the bank is ridiculessy solid IF they got safing rules along with the goverment not making stupid rules..... The first insane bubble burst to the world eqonomi came from USA, if i remember correctly a law about making loans to get houses was what caused it. Combined with the moral of greed, its not making things much better.
So really, its somewhat if a myth. If thunder was striking and making everything worse over there then its going straight down anyway.
____________
|
|
mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted April 24, 2009 02:50 PM |
|
|
JJ:
Quote:
The government is the focal point of the society it governs.
Well, that certainly is a dangerous view. The government is nothing but a tool of the people - hardly the "focal point".
Quote:
Why do you think the government would give everyone a lone, no matter what?
I'm not saying that it would. I'm saying that whether it would give a loan or not would be largely arbitrary. Plus, don't you think that the government would be tempted to give more loans to their cousins? 
Quote:
Surprisingly enough, I guess, this process is called "civilization". If you want to move to a country where social services are "voluntary", you are leaving - or abandoning - civilization anyway.
Then I must be a savage, because I don't measure civilization by the amount of extortion.
____________
Eccentric Opinion
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted April 24, 2009 03:06 PM |
|
|
Quote:
JJ:
Quote:
The government is the focal point of the society it governs.
Well, that certainly is a dangerous view. The government is nothing but a tool of the people - hardly the "focal point".
Nah. It's the only view that makes sense. The government's task is to govern, consequently it should comprise the best there are(and note that "government" means more or less "advisors" anyway; what a government decides depends largely on what advisors it relies on). It's certainly not as "dangerous" as trusting the fate of humanity the chaotic contest of profit motivated corporate greed.
Quote:
Quote:
Why do you think the government would give everyone a loan, no matter what?
I'm not saying that it would. I'm saying that whether it would give a loan or not would be largely arbitrary. Plus, don't you think that the government would be tempted to give more loans to their cousins?
That might be the case in some banana republic the government of which was in the pockets of some corporate interest where the population was simply exploited and corruption was the norm. There would obviously be regulations for loans and how they are given and to whom. People are not born greedy arseholes, you know.
Quote:
Quote:
Surprisingly enough, I guess, this process is called "civilization". If you want to move to a country where social services are "voluntary", you are leaving - or abandoning - civilization anyway.
Then I must be a savage, because I don't measure civilization by the amount of extortion.
Right, because instead you measure it by the amount of exploitation.
____________
"Nobody dies a virgin ... Life f*cks us all." - Kurt Cobain
|
|
TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
|
|
posted April 24, 2009 09:42 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Then I must be a savage, because I don't measure civilization by the amount of extortion.
Savage, I don't know and I doubt, but barbarian, that may be a different story. 
____________
The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
|
| |
|
|
