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| Thread: No RuleZ is the only way to go ! |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Frank
Promising
Known Hero
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posted December 28, 2001 02:00 AM |
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Edited By: Frank on 27 Dec 2001
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jb239, I left toh more times then anyone who came to play in this league...  I too came to do just that, play only against my friends and I too had 0 problems and that was fun. But I also like playing against new players with a different approach to the game. That`s how you`ve gotten to make those friends you are talking about in the first place!  So I also returned to toh more times then anyone who came to play in this league...
But I feel completely the opposite way when you say: ``threads and reasoning like this are the reason I stopped playing TOH games ina whole``. The purpose of this thread is to make more people enjoy playing in toh instead of thinking of quiting the league. I see nothing wrong with giving people some tools to avoid getting in a disapointing/frustrating situations.
If everyone understand perfectly how to deal with rulings then we can only hope for better games. And that`s the purpose of this thread.
- Frank
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mklthrkngl
Known Hero
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posted December 28, 2001 02:56 AM |
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regrettable
hey evrybody
hey frank good thread
i also kinda agree with jb239 though. i don;t think he finds your thread offensive. i think it's the need for such a thread and discussion in a league that's supposed to be based on having fun that he finds offensive.
i could be wrong though, who know's
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Defreni
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted December 28, 2001 01:23 PM |
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Well I see both Moc and Andi on right now......
Can we have some flaming just for the entertainment off the rest of us 
J/K offcourse, but frankly I really cant understand why u 2 cant get along? U are both very skilled HoMM players, and both great ppl to play and talk with in zone.
I have a pet theory, most ppl dislike eachother due to misunderstandings and miscommunications.
So guess my point is just, that eventhough u disagree on some minor points, I will go on a limb and say that u have much more in common than things that u disagree about. So stop for a moment and start over
No need for flaming, no need to get pissed at eachother for some minor things.
I was really drunk one night, and decided that I better start a huge discussion with Andi on the zone, next day he was kewl about it as always.
Guess Im kinda naive, but its Christmas/New Year, so why cant we all just get along
Defreni
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Hexa
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted December 28, 2001 01:30 PM |
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[sniffs]
Now look what u've done....you're getting me all emotional and stuff ...!@
LOL
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If you want to realize your dreams >>> you have to wake up!@
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Mocara
Famous Hero
what?
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posted December 28, 2001 01:32 PM |
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T to the tizzOH
Andi I dont hate you.
You have insulted me for a year on here and I never retorted. Seriously I have no animosity torward you at all.
As for Bjorns statement
"You´re right about the medal of honor. I got that once, but that was mostly related to my intellectual activities regarding honor, and not my honor itself. It was a heavy burden and luckily, I didn´t get it renewed this season "
There is none more honorable then Bjorn.
Play him if you get the chance.
-Mocara
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Titan_888
Known Hero
Wind of Change
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posted December 28, 2001 01:46 PM |
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merry x-mas and happy new year!
hehe .... almost 2 weeks without a computer and i really see clearly what kind of insanity you guys are (incl. myself). All this craptalk... backstabbing... gosh... Frank, you started a nice thread, just to bad it ends up in... well nothing more to say than
*Its nice to be important but more important to be nice*
Btw. Anyone seen Odins Missing Eye?
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Undead_Knight
Known Hero
Hero of Chaos
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posted December 28, 2001 03:10 PM |
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missing Odin's eye :)
I saw this eye , but it missed after short time
btw to seek missing Odin's eye seems to be much more usefull than to disscuss about rules speaking the same things again and again
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Frank
Promising
Known Hero
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posted December 29, 2001 12:20 AM |
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Edited By: Frank on 28 Dec 2001
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HOMM is a very complex game. The more rules you make the more you make it a simplistic game. Here is why:
Why do people feel rules are needed in the first place? Such rules as:
- No level 3/4 hero
- No diplomats
- No logistic hero
- No grail
- No hit and run
- No attack from red player on day 1
- No necro hero (1st that was only a random map rule)
- If we meet week 1 we restart
- No cartographers / scrolls / Pandora boxes / relics
- Etc… (I`m sure I’m forgetting many rules)
Is it because they lost once to one of those HOMM characteristics!?
This is how you mustn’t react: make yet another rule. So you lost to a diplomat who joined twice as many troops as you. Fine, let’s ban diplomat heroes all together. And if you lost because your opponent’s hero had logistic and could get to an utopia before you. Ban logistic heroes all together. And if your opponent’s level 7 creatures are faster than yours then enforce the no hit and run rule. Where is this ending? You lost because your opponent got magic arrow in his magic guild and you didn’t? Don’t laugh, I’ve heard that one before… The fact is, there are ways to counter a day 1 rush with logistic, or a diplomat with level 3/4 hero. If you prefer to hide behind rulings and to play in games in which Axsis fight against Voy with only level 1 troops with no possibility to use any spells (for it was ruled out !), then don’t read what’s following.
This is how you must react: find a solution to your problem. After all, finding solutions to overcome great adversity is one of the most enjoyable part of playing HOMM, is it not? Remember when you used to play against the computer. When you begun to beat him too easily you would put the difficulty level at impossible instead of normal and you would try to kill the computer before week 3 instead of week 5… Then you were up to the challenge! So instead of whining and lose your next game to the next ‘unfair’ HOMM’s great characteristics, think of them ways to counter every tactics in the game.
More to come…
- Frank
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted December 29, 2001 01:56 AM |
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I agree with you Frank!!
You are so correct Frank. Most of those things have a counter and it is silly to make rules. But there is NO reliable counter to HIt and RUn, so that is the one in your list that is a decent and much needed rule.
Unless there is a way to guarnetee shackles or +7 speed art to be dug up on every map somewhere then the person who is lucky enough to have the fastest creature can hit and run with no way to stop him. no skill needed.
Other than that I agree withy ou Frank all other aspects of the game have somewhat reliable ways of countering diff tactcs.
Jinxer
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Motorschaaf
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted December 29, 2001 02:13 AM |
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rules rules rules
i only play with rules but i agree sometimes its not very easy to define a rule . so if 2 players agree on a rule they should edit the map in a way that there wont be any arguments bout rules definition anymore.
so here some hints how to avoid arguments in future.
Hit and Run - if u and ur opponent agree on that rule, edit shackles on a map in front of every players castle.
Day one rush - Very simple : play 2 min turns on xl maps or 1 min turns on smaller sized maps ... whoever can day 1 rush with these time settings sureley deserves a win
No diplo - simply just allow to recruit creatures from dwellings or towns only , or ( i know a hell of a work )set all monsters to savage.
no 4th/thant - just put em in prisom before game starts
just put a "rules" and "regular" version of every map in folder . and for all the no rules players outthere : u can even play the "rules" edition without any rules
HOMMbreakschaaf
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jb239
Famous Hero
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posted December 29, 2001 05:00 AM |
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should have called yerself
TooMuchWorkSchaaf
really isnt necessary to go that far...I suppose the point frank tryin to make is to clarify what a rule means so there is no assumptions?
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jb239
Famous Hero
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posted December 29, 2001 05:02 AM |
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I forgot to add...besides the assumed no rules style of play.
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Tortoise
Known Hero
Master of Reptiles.
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posted December 29, 2001 05:33 AM |
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I don't think giving shackles is a good idea at all to stop hit and run. I had a game where my main surrendered to save all his ghost dragons and black knights, not a hit and run, epic battle, but i was losing, had low mp so i surrendered, hit and run was also a rule in that game. so if we edited in shackles i would be totally screwed, and i wasn't violating the hit/run rule in the least.
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All living things have a history. The history of the Tortoise is long and rich.
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Defreni
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted December 29, 2001 06:24 AM |
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Hehee Ruleschaaf ;P
Play no rules at all, then u dont have to edit all the maps u play
And turtle, or tortoise, whatever u prefer. schackleshaaf, was just making fun about editing in schackles coz he always get either that or recanters in evrygame he plays
J/K.
But Jinxer, its bull what u say about rules, its much tougher to count 1. day rush than it is to counter H&R, Im a mediocre player so I should know
I countered H&R without either schackles or anything, just conquered his castle town, and got mass haste
Guess Lews Therin got me finally convinced that no rules at all is the best. Cept no 1. day rush on WvsE, u can guess why, and u can guess why Ive never played that map since I first layed eyes on it in map ed.
Defreni
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wiggy_wam
Promising
Famous Hero
local pirate
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posted December 29, 2001 12:17 PM |
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Quote:
But there is NO reliable counter to HIt and RUn, so that is the one in your list that is a decent and much needed rule.
Jinxer
best counter for H/R (besides shackles or red orb) is H/R. Pulled it off twice . If opponent has fastest unit, then get 7 stacks of weak units ... and you better hope he doesn't have black dragons!
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- wiggy ... who has a crush on Rob's models. Well ... the ones his age (18-26)
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andiangelsla...
Disgraceful
Famous Hero
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posted December 29, 2001 01:52 PM |
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as mentioned by that b*****d jinxer , rules like no log, no L4 and so on are not necessary, on randoms no diplo is a must imo and maybe other stuff to keep it "fun", but theres no way to counter hit and run most times, so there.
and whoever says its easy to counter it is just doing so to defend it so he can still get easy wins with it, so there
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thecastrated
Famous Hero
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posted December 29, 2001 02:10 PM |
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An ancient struggle
Yo all, I am presenting an ancient struggle in which the person till this day has not admitted that hes wrong.
K, take a scenario. First, your opponent HIMSELF said (1)"no 4th lvl spell heroes". Later he HIMSELF says (2)"no 4th lvl spell heroes as main". After hearing this will you hire jeddite if you can? It is obvious that he HIMSELF used the second statement to refine his first statement right? What for repeat himself then, if (2) doesnt add anything. Redundancy?
Say ,hearing what he says, you later hired solmyr as a scout. At the end of the game can he now come and leash out all his sore loser attitude and call you unhonourable, saying that he has his own interpretations of his own rule?That although you have abided by the second(2) rule, you have broken the first(1) rule?
Now, I had a game whereby he said "no hit and run". HE later added "attacker no surrender until round three while defender no surrender till round 2" It is pretty obvious that he himself think that if you obey by his own later statement then no "hit and run" is committed isnt it?
However this ex.colonel then lost,although I surrendered in round 2 and he attacked me. He even had the fastest creature in round 2 then(Through haste in rd 1). However he came around to accuse me of being unhonourable. Crap.
It still angers me when I recall the case. He is wrong in so many ways, and we didnt even report that game. What I am requesting is not anything more than a simple apology.
I am posting this because this issue is very real and it may well happen to lots of others who happens to play sore losers. Just have caution and make them state specifically anything they want to say. Although you still have no ways to wipe out sore losers from the face of this earth.
Happy new year
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woods
Adventuring Hero
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posted December 29, 2001 05:41 PM |
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christmas is over...
good thread , frank
it shows us the difficulties of rule making....
it shows us that all (@jinxer : most ) rules are unnecessary....
it shows us the advantage of making inexakt rules .... ;-)
it shows us that there are tons of players who normally play without rules , 'but in this particularly case they must have the rule xyz'
it shows us 'the real no rules player' - all imaginable rules were edited in a copy of each map
-woods
but because christmas is over theres a last one
quote:
''As long as a member of the HC sits in the Zone and says things like "Only pussies play hit and run" and "Armageddon is for wimps"...making it impossible for new players to form their own opinions and misrepresenting the values of ToH then threads like this will always be needed. ''
quote:
''They might be honorable players, but they might also be a bunch of jerks, and I don´t really care =) ''
and it shows us the tragedy of a player with former undisputed reputation, who actually is nothing more than a
whining *smile )
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CraigHack
Known Hero
Have fantasies, will travel...
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posted December 29, 2001 08:23 PM |
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to summarize...
Remember the good old days when the game was new.... it was one hell of a game was'nt it? We all spent at least half of our time analyzing maps... Heroes... spells... arties to find a win. The only problems we had were the Gremmie rush and Solmyr/Deemer to worry about, the CD maps sucked for multi of course. We thought Necros didnt have a chance in hell against most of the other town types!! Ahhh... good times!
Hours anmd hours we spent scheming, plotting, planning to find new ways to play this game... We found them!!!!!!
Rumors circulated about some players who won all the time being cheaters, some of us had a list of players who were "suspected"...some of them were cheaters of course but some of them were just plain better than the rest of us!
Maybe the life cycle of Heroes 3 is near over. There is nothing wrong with the game today, it's been over-analyzed is the problem. "We have found the enemy and he are us" I think it was the comic strip character Pogo who said that.
It's unfortunate because there are still many things yet unfound in this game.
I argued for "no rules" cause I thought that was for lazy players who didnt want to search for the "new" ways to play and the ways to counter them. Now I dont even understand the rules anymore. "No Log, no 3/4 lev spell, no Dip, no H&R", thats not enough of an explanation, you have to understand *what the guy thought he meant to say* and if you understand it wrong, one of you will be "dishonorable".
You have read the threads, almost anything you do or say can be misinterpreted. If you implemented ALL the rules you have seen or heard about in a single game, it would be near impossible to play at all. Lets be honest, out of every 100 games that I have played, H&R has only been used 3 or 4 times, by me or against me. I am not counting the times that a Scout fires off a Magic Arrow and runs when attacked by the other guys main. I have read thats even considered H&R by some. (crazy bastards)
Thank God that Heroes 4 is almost here! We can start all over again as innocents. It will happen again though folks!
Heroes 4 will be more complicated allowing more analysis to uncover more "methods of winning play".
Anyway, I can hardly wait!
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The Gods have brought us together... I can't imagine why.
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andiangelsla...
Disgraceful
Famous Hero
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posted December 30, 2001 01:10 PM |
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ok, basically what i get from the posts according to me is:
Im a HC person, im not allowed to have my oppinions, and if i say them in open places im a whiner and trash talker (not everyone think so, i know, this is adressed to certain peeps). and iam not allowed to make jokes or talk funny with my friends in chats, making fun of armageddon for example, coz some people are only waiting to use what i say against me.
that all is wrong, now i tell you how i think about this: i help TOH, but why shouldnt i still be like any other player on zone, why cant i make the same jokes? im not there so new players look up to me and watch me, what i doubt they do anyway lol, im in HC to look on saves and help deth8 with decission in TOH, is has NOTHING to do with what i do on the zone.
i answer questions usually when im not in a game, sometimes i dont start a game because i got too much to do with HC stuff, and than i go to this board and see that used against me, funny really, for example woods, who you think you are to give such a statement:
"and it shows us the tragedy of a player with former undisputed reputation, who actually is nothing more than a
whining *smile"
its too silly to even comment this for me, so i dont even try, also this is 1 of my last posts here, coz i noticed being on HC and writing here doesnt fit together
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