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| Thread: Cloister |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · NEXT» |
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xerdux
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posted May 09, 2009 04:44 PM |
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Cloister
Just a couple of minutes ago I went to aftonbladet.se and read this article http://www.aftonbladet.se/wendela/relationer/article5104289.ab (which obviously is in swedish but I link it anyway).
So I read the article about this woman who was put/imprisoned in an cloister when she was only 16 years old.
I think the governent/social welfare office should have arrested the parents or something like that because she either didnt want to go into the cloister or her parents influenced her with religion so much that she went to an cloister.
So she finally gained free will some time ago and came out of this cloister, ruled by sectlike catholics.
But she doesnt understand anything in the society because she has been isolated for so many years.
And in 14 years a lot of things change in a modern society.
I always viewed Sweden as a very secularised country where there were no cloisters anymore.
I thought clositers belonged to the middle-ages but I was wrong. I had heard about another swedish cloister some years ago but I thought there would be very few cloisters in Sweden.
Perhaps I was wrong.
But what I wrote above was just an introduction. This is the real thing I wonder about...
Aren't clositers unnatural? Religion is natural for a speices such as humans (but I wont get in to that) but I think that cloisters are not. Humans are supposed to be social animals. We are flock/pack animals and are not supposed to be isolated.
And what kind of god would choose to imprison certain induvials (cant spell) in these buildings?
So that they can show their dedication to god? Cant they do that when they are free?
Clositers were okey around the 1400s. But we live in 2009. In modern time (for us).
Even though you might not agree with anything I wrote here then I wonder - what is your opinion about cloisters?
It would be also nice to see some religious person say what cloisters are for use.
In my opinion cloisters are fanatical, religious prisons and its denziens (without free will and thinking) had often no choice but to go there.
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Oscarius
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*sleepy*
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posted May 09, 2009 04:52 PM |
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Just one question.....
Why were cloisters, as you say "okay around the 1400" but not okay today. What have changed 
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JollyJoker
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posted May 09, 2009 04:57 PM |
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Cloisters are not an exclusive Christian thing. On the contrary. Tibetan monks live in cloisters as well. There is nothing wrong with it provided it's ADULTS who do it.
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veco
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who am I?
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posted May 09, 2009 05:00 PM |
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Edited by veco at 17:00, 09 May 2009.
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And why do priests can't have wives? That's so unnatural, humans are made for reproduction aye?
Why an impotent person can't have a church marriage because he/she can't have children but 'white marriage' where partners choose not to have sex is allowed?
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JollyJoker
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posted May 09, 2009 05:11 PM |
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Who cares? No one is forced to be part of that nonsense (anymore).
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DagothGares
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posted May 09, 2009 05:46 PM |
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Ah, you generalise too much and obviously forgot what goal cloisters served.
In Belgium, cloisters are the revenue of the church. In other words, they're our breweries
I have nothing against them and respect the people willing to spend their lives in them. Though, to be honest, christianity is a more outdoor-type of religion, if you'd ask me, but hey, who am I to judge?
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Elodin
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posted May 09, 2009 05:56 PM |
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Yet another religion bashing thread eh?
Parents have a right to raise children in their religious belief. I am not a Catholic and don't believe in a cloistered life but if the parents do it is their right to raise the child that way. When the child came of age she evidently decided she did not want to live that way and left.
I'm sure there is nothing that your parents required you to do as a child that you did not want to do, right?
Quote:
And what kind of god would choose to imprison certain induvials (cant spell) in these buildings?
So that they can show their dedication to god? Cant they do that when they are free?
No place in the Bible talks about a cloister. But if people want to devote themselves to God in that manner who are you to judge them?
Quote:
And what kind of god would choose to imprison certain induvials (cant spell) in these buildings?
So that they can show their dedication to god? Cant they do that when they are free?
God did not. And as far as I know the girl was not "imprisoned." Was she chained in a dungeon?
Anti-theism is your religion, eh? Or I suspect it is just anti-Christian.
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Clositers were okey around the 1400s. But we live in 2009. In modern time (for us).
Who are you to say people can't worship God in a cloister? Do you think you are God? You think you can tell people how they can show their devotion to God and how they can't?
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In my opinion cloisters are fanatical, religious prisons and its denziens (without free will and thinking) had often no choice but to go there.
It is my opinion that you are in a fanatical anti-Christian religious prison (mental.) It appears you are one of the deniens who shares the anti-Christian bigotted hateful haughty views of atheists such as Richard Dawkins.
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DagothGares
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posted May 09, 2009 06:02 PM |
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Quote:
Side Note.. It would be great if someone could actually define what a Cloister even is and what they are for. I have never even heard the word before now.
A cloister is a place where monks live. They do many things. Almost all cloisters have a rigorous schedule where praying and singing is involved for around four times a day. You're only allowed to talk and drink for an hour a day. Some are very strict, with heavily enforced regulations, like the above, others aren't. It depends what order of monks lives there.
Some cloisters are breweries, others are scriptoria others just are places where elderly priests reside and tend their gardens, then others are places where nuns reside, you get the idea.
They were also the social workers of the medieval ages(helped to work the land and build palisades or something) and 'the fortresses' of gods around the times when vikings roamed western europe.
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Doomforge
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posted May 09, 2009 06:27 PM |
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Quote:
And why do priests can't have wives? That's so unnatural, humans are made for reproduction aye?
Protestant priests can marry and have kids; New Testament encourages priests to have wives (won't give you the quote right now but it's pretty famous; bishop should be a husband of one wive, or smth like that).
As for the reason for celibacy:
1015 r - Celibacy has been established to solve the problem of inheriting church's properties by families of priests; Before that year, priests had wives and kids, excluding asexual ones of course.
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JollyJoker
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posted May 09, 2009 06:32 PM |
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Quote:
Parents have a right to raise children in their religious belief. I am not a Catholic and don't believe in a cloistered life but if the parents do it is their right to raise the child that way.
I disagree. There is no difference between raising a child in a religious belief and putting it away into a cloister or marrying it off to someone.
This is a very, very difficult and delicate thing and has nothing to do with RIGHTS. It has something to do with how far parents (as opposed to the whole of society) can determine the life of their children.
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Lexxan
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posted May 09, 2009 06:45 PM |
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@ Father: Cloister = Monastairy. The word seems to be derived from the Dutch "Klooster", which mean Monastairy.
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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DagothGares
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posted May 09, 2009 06:48 PM |
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Monastery, lex 
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Lexxan
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Unimpressed by your logic
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posted May 09, 2009 06:51 PM |
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Meh, I spell as I like, and from now on it's MONASTAIRY
BTW: They seems boring anyway.
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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Elodin
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posted May 09, 2009 07:00 PM |
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Quote:
I disagree. There is no difference between raising a child in a religious belief and putting it away into a cloister or marrying it off to someone.
This is a very, very difficult and delicate thing and has nothing to do with RIGHTS. It has something to do with how far parents (as opposed to the whole of society) can determine the life of their children.
Yes, the all powerful STATE has the right to determine how the child is raised, right? Beause it is the state that gives rights to the people, right?
I am sorry, but I hold to the view that God has given the people rights and the people grant the state certian powers. It is the parent, not the "State-god" who determines how the child should be raised.
Certainly this does have to do with "rights" and would fall into freedom of religion.
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Anakrom
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posted May 09, 2009 07:03 PM |
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I donīt mind cloisters as along you are not forced to enter one. If you are an adult, Iīm cool with it, your decision. But make your 16yo child to enter it? Girl should care about other things in puberty. They wasted her life imo, it will take her long time to adapt to present society and life. For child it is nothing more than prison full of discipline and religious brainwashing.
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JollyJoker
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posted May 09, 2009 08:15 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
I disagree. There is no difference between raising a child in a religious belief and putting it away into a cloister or marrying it off to someone.
This is a very, very difficult and delicate thing and has nothing to do with RIGHTS. It has something to do with how far parents (as opposed to the whole of society) can determine the life of their children.
Yes, the all powerful STATE has the right to determine how the child is raised, right? Beause it is the state that gives rights to the people, right?
I am sorry, but I hold to the view that God has given the people rights and the people grant the state certian powers. It is the parent, not the "State-god" who determines how the child should be raised.
Certainly this does have to do with "rights" and would fall into freedom of religion.
Nope. It has EXCLUSIVELY to do with how much POWER society (not state, even though it may be state practically) allows parents over their children. Remember, children are no THING and nothing OWNED, so it hasn't got to do with the rights of the PARENTS or THEIR freedom of religion, but with the rights of the children not to be violated, physically or mentally as members of society who have a RIGHT on protection, even from their own parents.
This is not against cloisters. As I said, an ADULT may do in that respect whatever they want, and I'm certainly not saying anything against them.
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Elodin
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posted May 09, 2009 08:50 PM |
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Quote:
Nope. It has EXCLUSIVELY to do with how much POWER society (not state, even though it may be state practically) allows parents over their children. Remember, children are no THING and nothing OWNED, so it hasn't got to do with the rights of the PARENTS or THEIR freedom of religion, but with the rights of the children not to be violated, physically or mentally as members of society who have a RIGHT on protection, even from their own parents.
This is not against cloisters. As I said, an ADULT may do in that respect whatever they want, and I'm certainly not saying anything against them.
The most basic unit in society is the family. The family predates all government. The family can certainly determine what is best for the family. The parents love the children and look out for their best interests. The parents are in a much better position to judge what is best for their child than some government elitist sitting in Washington.
Children are not experienced enough to know what is best for them. The ADULT who should make the decision for a minor is the PARENT, NOT a beaurocrat. The child is a faceless number to the beaurocrat but the child is the most important thing in life to the parent.
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del_diablo
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posted May 09, 2009 09:22 PM |
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Quote:
Children are not experienced enough to know what is best for them. The ADULT who should make the decision for a minor is the PARENT, NOT a beaurocrat. The child is a faceless number to the beaurocrat but the child is the most important thing in life to the parent.
Sadly thats true, but however. Since i am the parent i can dominate my better half to agree with me, then i marry of my childeren to some random rapists. Or similar situation, and that is the case Xerox the swede listed.
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JollyJoker
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posted May 09, 2009 09:30 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Nope. It has EXCLUSIVELY to do with how much POWER society (not state, even though it may be state practically) allows parents over their children. Remember, children are no THING and nothing OWNED, so it hasn't got to do with the rights of the PARENTS or THEIR freedom of religion, but with the rights of the children not to be violated, physically or mentally as members of society who have a RIGHT on protection, even from their own parents.
This is not against cloisters. As I said, an ADULT may do in that respect whatever they want, and I'm certainly not saying anything against them.
The most basic unit in society is the family. The family predates all government. The family can certainly determine what is best for the family. The parents love the children and look out for their best interests. The parents are in a much better position to judge what is best for their child than some government elitist sitting in Washington.
Children are not experienced enough to know what is best for them. The ADULT who should make the decision for a minor is the PARENT, NOT a beaurocrat. The child is a faceless number to the beaurocrat but the child is the most important thing in life to the parent.
Strangely enough you seem to have a completely different opinion in the Hormone thread.
Anyway, what I see is a helpless assortment of unfounded claims with at best vague connections to what is actually the issue here: The right of a child to be protected from parents NOT acting in th best interest of their children.
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razor5
Famous Hero
Freezing...
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posted May 09, 2009 09:35 PM |
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Quote:
And why do priests can't have wives? That's so unnatural, humans are made for reproduction aye?
Why an impotent person can't have a church marriage because he/she can't have children but 'white marriage' where partners choose not to have sex is allowed?
Dunno,I asked to me the same question some time ago.That is a stupidity,it's like a type of discrimination,but not a big one.
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