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| Thread: The best players? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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liophy
Famous Hero
Bulgarian
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posted June 09, 2009 03:38 PM |
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The popularity of this stupid template does only show that it is EASY to play. On this template everything is for free. So resource management and precise chaining is gone. You can built creature building very easy even on 200%, so that map buildings dont mean any difficulty at all. So event planning is gone too. You dont have to think about your opponent until your endfight, as long as you can manage to "break thru" on a certain day. So strategic planning concerning your opponent is taken out almost totally. The endfights are lame as hell. The army at that stage are so huge that only certain spells are any usefull. The spell variety is about 5 spells in the endfight = lame. About 90% of Jebus games are decided of how many Wyvern could be drained or if you could do a double built or if your Utopia was less big then the ones of the oppenent = lame. The variety of heroes that can give you a win with huge armies is also very limited, magic heroes are taken out completely. Level 1-5 Creatures have no meaning in the endfight ...etc etc etc.. the line is endless, why this template is the lamest template ever. Its even more lame then the players that kept on playing Desert War over and over again.
The only obvious thing is that you havent played enough games on Jebus against skillfull players.
Half of the things you said is absolutely wrong.
But for one thing i agree - jebus is simple in construction. Thats pretty obvious. But the other things you said... they are simply not true.
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Xarfax111
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
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posted June 09, 2009 03:38 PM |
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I dunno who is the current best player, but a good advice is not to look of how many points he has. Its better to have a look which maps this player plays. If someone has more then 20 Jebus maps on his record he shouldnt be taken any serious. And peeps that did have played over 80% on certain map/template arent good at all.
Acording to this statement Maretti is not good at all 
Well, if he had played over 80% on a certain map/template he isnt good at all.
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liophy
Famous Hero
Bulgarian
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posted June 09, 2009 03:40 PM |
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If you think that you are good player cause you play this map better then other you are wrong. It only shows that you are a good player on Jebus (or similar templates), which means not much as these templates leave out too much of the game.
Well thats true. No argument here.
But if someone is better than you on Jebus it doesnt mean that he can not be better on other templates aswell
Its not guaranteed offcourse, but it absolutely possible. Even more probable than the opposite.
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Xarfax111
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
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posted June 09, 2009 03:45 PM |
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The only obvious thing is that you havent played enough games on Jebus against skillfull players.
Where is your point? I cant find any. This "my-penis-is-longer-then-yours" statement doesnt have any point.
I have played enough Jebus templates against very good players. And its not hard to find out how limited this template is. Maybe youve played to many Jebus templates that you are urged to defend this lousy template?
Even the one that developed this templated mentioned how lousy it is.
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Pavelismus
Hired Hero
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posted June 09, 2009 03:51 PM |
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i must say its not the case...most peeps playing NO jebus atm...
i personally like jebus for nice time, fun not really competetive template at all but imo u cant call it boring for certain reasons...for others u can 
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Xarfax111
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
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posted June 09, 2009 03:52 PM |
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But if someone is better than you on Jebus it doesnt mean that he can not be better on other templates aswell
Its not guaranteed offcourse, but it absolutely possible. Even more probable than the opposite.
Over the years it was always the same. Some peeps kept on specialising on a certain map/template and as soon as they found out how to get a high percentage of wins against players that did not specialise on that map/template they kept on playing one way on it over and over and over again. They get high in ranks and think they are good. Well they are, but only on this map/template.
If they are good on other maps/template you will never know. They are high in ranks and surely they avoid loosing by playing things they dont know.
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liophy
Famous Hero
Bulgarian
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posted June 09, 2009 03:55 PM |
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The only obvious thing is that you havent played enough games on Jebus against skillfull players.
Where is your point? I cant find any. This "my-penis-is-longer-then-yours" statement doesnt have any point.
I have played enough Jebus templates against very good players. And its not hard to find out how limited this template is. Maybe youve played to many Jebus templates that you are urged to defend this lousy template?
Even the one that developed this templated mentioned how lousy it is.
Well, the one that talks about penises seems to be you, since i never said how good/bad someone is. It was you with the comments, so...
And i never defended Jebus. Its not "mine" templete, so i am neither proud of it, nor anything.
The obvious fact is that Jebus is simple in construction. That one i admited. There is only one road and only one way where you can meet your opponent. So in this aspect - no surprises.
But this is the only thing that jebus can be criticised for.
Everithing else that you stated is pure rubish and shows your lack of experience in jebus. Or i dont know what else...
Because: its easy to play jebus, if you play against the AI.
If you playe equally good opponen, just playing is not enough.
Try breaking into the dessert 1.2.1 or 1.2.2 with minimal losses and then we can talk you can play this templete. There is not much people who can do it.
"Chaining is not important" this statement is laughable. I can even say, that Jebus is probably the most important templete for chaining.
Because you need to collect stuff with scouts and in the same time fight for cons/hives/artefacts. Your main hero movement must be precise, so you dont loose any time.
Even the slightest mistake can lead to a day lost. Wich on Jebus is vital.
About the "game is decided how many wyverns you collect". I dont thing that even 1/3 of the games are decided by wyverns. But even so - would you say that 8xm8 or Balance are more stupid than Jebus?
About the endfight. Well, if you thing that only implo decide battle again you have not enough experience in Jebus. And if having huge armies is a problem for you - 8xm8, Extreem, Marathon and BlockBuster are lame templetes aswell?
There are so many purely wrong statements made by you. I am surprised to hear them from you. But... obviously being long in the game is not enough to make sober analisis.
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liophy
Famous Hero
Bulgarian
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posted June 09, 2009 03:59 PM |
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Edited by liophy at 16:01, 09 Jun 2009.
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Over the years it was always the same. Some peeps kept on specialising on a certain map/template and as soon as they found out how to get a high percentage of wins against players that did not specialise on that map/template they kept on playing one way on it over and over and over again. They get high in ranks and think they are good. Well they are, but only on this map/template.
If they are good on other maps/template you will never know. They are high in ranks and surely they avoid loosing by playing things they dont know.
Well, this one i agree on 100%. There is some people like that. But it doesnt mean that if one playes some game on jebus and he likes it, he avoids any other template
And infact - as you said, if a player plays all of his games only on a certain template, than your remarks would be valid.
So actually your critics are not against the Jebus itself, but against people playing only one templated. It could be Balance, Blockbuster.
Or even more obvioius - only one fixed map.
But this has nothing to do with Jebus (or any other templete) beeing good or bad.
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Pavelismus
Hired Hero
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posted June 09, 2009 04:17 PM |
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ontopic:
i think that there is not much said about the very good russian players(heroes.by/heroesworld.ru/heroesportal.ru)
most of them play TE but the game isnt that different so we should take them in account too
maybe the thread starter should make a list of players mentioned so far so we can get a overview
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maretti
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted June 09, 2009 04:28 PM |
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"On this template everything is for free. So resource management and precise chaining is gone."
Since you have so much gold and resources the requirement for how fast and strong you must be is upped heavily. Try playing inferno or tower and see how easily you can buy out week 2 with lvl 7s upgraded. Its normally not possible so you have to squeeze every single cent out of the map.
Precise chaining is essential on jebus. Since your main dosent have time to do more than a few fights your scouts have to do them. This requeres precise chaining and you have to be able to do semi hard fights with weak heroes. Besides that you have to consider whether a scout is gonna join the chain or pick up stuff. You often need alot of heroes in the chain which makes it hard to get enough money. This is actually resourcemanegement.
"You can built creature building very easy even on 200%, so that map buildings dont mean any difficulty at all."
Not true. In most cases you can build all buildings week 1. But you cant upgrade everything easily week 2. On other templates ppl have a prefered building order. Either you have the money for it or you dont. Not much to think about.
"You dont have to think about your opponent until your endfight, as long as you can manage to "break thru" on a certain day."
From the day you break you might run into your opponent unless you break 123 or earlier. Sometimes you are even attacked in your own area week 2.
"So strategic planning concerning your opponent is taken out almost totally."
As on all other temps you have to consider what your opponent has and try to act on it.
"The army at that stage are so huge that only certain spells are any usefull."
Exactly the same spells are usefull as on other temps. Haste, slow, shield, blind, beserk, arma, implo. And as on all other temps, if you havent the best spells you will have to use the 2nd best.
"The variety of heroes that can give you a win with huge armies is also very limited"
Probably 30 might heroes are playeble.
"magic heroes are taken out completely"
As they are on all other larger maps or temps.
"Level 1-5 Creatures have no meaning in the endfight"
They can easily make the diffrence. In most cases the heroes stats are decisive though.
Another thing to mention is that you often have to do very difficult fights with your unupgraded week 1 army. Sometimes you also have to manage your 2nd skills so that you can make them. Again skill and knowledge is needed.
Ill be the first to admit that luck often plays a big factor on jebus. But can you mention a template where it dosent?
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Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck
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liophy
Famous Hero
Bulgarian
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posted June 09, 2009 04:39 PM |
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Ill be the first to admit that luck often plays a big factor on jebus. But can you mention a template where it dosent?
Thats so out of question, that if someone tells me there is template/map on Heroes that is totaly balanced i will laugh at his face.
Luck factor is and always will be part of heroes. If someone cant live with it - better not play heroes.
The only thing you can do is to do your best to overcome the bad luck when it is against you. And if you cant - to hope the next game it will be with you.
Actually thats the charm of heroes - the anticipation of something good (lucky) comming from the dark (if you play random map the dark is bigger).
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Xarfax111
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
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posted June 09, 2009 04:41 PM |
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There are so many purely wrong statements made by you. I am surprised to hear them from you. But... obviously being long in the game is not enough to make sober analisis.
Well you have played 120 games on Jebus template, only some on other templates, which are more or less equal.
What else statement did i expect then this?
I have played about 2000 games. 1200 in TOH and 800 in Drachenwald after TOH went down. About 1000 games on fixed map (200 open) and about 1000 on various templates, from the original ones to the current ones. Additional to this ive played almost every subtourney that showed additional aspects of this game.
But... obviously playing too much Jebus is not enough to make sober analisis.
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liophy
Famous Hero
Bulgarian
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posted June 09, 2009 04:46 PM |
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Edited by liophy at 16:48, 09 Jun 2009.
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Well you have played 120 games on Jebus template, only some on other templates, which are more or less equal.
What else statement did i expect then this?
I have played about 2000 games. 1200 in TOH and 800 in Drachenwald after TOH went down. About 1000 games on fixed map (200 open) and about 1000 on various templates, from the original ones to the current ones. Additional to this ive played almost every subtourney that showed additional aspects of this game.
Someone was talking about "whos dick is bigger"
BTW were your 2000 games enough to make any success against the russian player last year?
Still - about the argument. I gave my points. Where are yours? We were talking about sober analisis...
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liophy
Famous Hero
Bulgarian
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posted June 09, 2009 04:51 PM |
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Edited by liophy at 16:52, 09 Jun 2009.
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Actually you are in contradiction with yourself.
You are saying Jebus is lame templete, its easy to play. And if someone has a good record on it - he sucks.
lets think...
If its easy to play on jebus, all the noobs will be good. So - the competition is actually higher. Everyone can beat you. Still - if you have good record, you must be something special.
On the other hand - if the "so called hard templates" is hard for the noobs, you will win all the time with no efforts.
So - how is it big achievement to beat noobs on such templetes?
I find it a bit contradicting.
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Xarfax111
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
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posted June 09, 2009 04:56 PM |
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Someone was talking about "whos dick is bigger"
Ok your point.
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BTW were your 2000 games enough to make any success against the russian player last year?
As far as i know they play TE version. I also offered a game here, noone wanted to play against me. If you want to play me Im here.
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Still - about the argument. I gave my points. Where are yours? We were talking about sober analisis...
Well you dont get my points, cause it looks like you are sitting in a Jebus-can and cant look outside. If you would have played some other maps/templates/styles/rules etc. you and Maretti would be able to get some ideas.
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Xarfax111
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
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posted June 09, 2009 05:01 PM |
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I find it a bit contradicting.
No its not. A good player can handle any situation and does win if not luck is in his way.
A bad player can only handle Jebus.
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liophy
Famous Hero
Bulgarian
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posted June 09, 2009 05:02 PM |
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If you want to play me Im here.
I am interested. Would you be interested to play TE with any settings you like? I would agree the closest settings to SOD:
- with morale (my prefered)
- with upgrade stack in neutrals (my prefeered)
- no creature experience (my prefered)
- classes (i like classes, but its a change to SOD)
- creature specialist changed (i like it, but its a change to sod)
So the only differences will be some small building order in towns and some small changes in magic schools.
I believe its not big change at all.
The positives are - a lot faster game due to the buttons and 75% of the rules could be nailed in the game settings itself.
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black_knight
Known Hero
LT League
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posted June 09, 2009 05:02 PM |
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Thats so out of question, that if someone tells me there is template/map on Heroes that is totaly balanced i will laugh at his face.
Yes. But is more funny thing than this. When opponent say you, that you was more lucky with territory, but you see, that he release only 60 or 80 % of game. It's very big thing. Then who need laugh?
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liophy
Famous Hero
Bulgarian
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posted June 09, 2009 05:04 PM |
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I find it a bit contradicting.
No its not. A good player can handle any situation and does win if not luck is in his way.
A bad player can only handle Jebus.
Again - exactly what i said. If a bad player can handle Jebus, obviously its even harder to beat him
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Xarfax111
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
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posted June 09, 2009 05:08 PM |
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I am interested. Would you be interested to play TE with any settings you like?
You got me wrong. The russian players do have TE, which is all in all a very good patch. But i dont have it cause it changed some aspects i dont like, plus all german players dont have it.
So if you want/can play an original SOD/Complete game against me Im here.
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