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| Thread: The best players? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV |
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted June 11, 2009 09:41 PM |
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Edited by angelito at 21:41, 11 Jun 2009.
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Quote:
It will not be bad if you give links to the 2 modifications:
Poor Jebus and changed True Random.
I have sent them to Sag right now and asked him to upload them (incl. Angelito's fiesta) on WCL main page.
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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tob
Hired Hero
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posted June 22, 2009 05:01 PM |
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Edited by tob at 17:04, 22 Jun 2009.
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What about devangle who played a couple of years ago? he seemed to be pretty skillful. Did he stop playing?
@Maretti
Did you play more games with stinger after the tournament with heroes.by?
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maretti
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted June 22, 2009 11:06 PM |
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I havent played him since but Niki4a, whom I have played many games against, played some games against him and had a hard time.
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Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck
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Casihasi
Known Hero
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posted July 31, 2009 10:14 PM |
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ooh i want to bump this, just to agree with Xarfax..even if he is an old farter 
The real h3 died when all those rush/i give ya everything for free maps and templates were "introduced".
Hourglass, BoB, and for randoms some silly rich ones like...ughh...Jebus.
I doubt there are many good players left now, who could handle complex games where you really have to think about how you want to spend your spare resources. Or how you move your heroes in an open map, for scout wars.
Sometimes i want to come back to play a good ole game of h3, but 1 minute later i remember how lame the game is played by most people now.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted July 31, 2009 10:49 PM |
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Watch out, you just bumped a horde of arrogant bulgarian players who will stump you in no time. I agree 100% with you, but I will be called noob.
However a small percentage of templates are open, with no blocks, which restore the original kinda flavor. But the rule "restart if first week meet" invalidate such templates. So, in theory they exist, but only for the sake of arguing.
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Era II mods and utilities
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maretti
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted July 31, 2009 11:14 PM |
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I suggest you dont come back then. Then we dont have to listen to endless whining and bad excuses why you were wiped out.
Its getting pathetic to listen to one old player after the other showing up here and letting us all know how much better player were in the good old days (where you could memorize every single step because you played the same map over and over again) and how the game died at exactly the moment where some changes occured they didnt like. How do you know??
Its like saying Bjørn Borg is a better tenniplayer than Roger Federer. Or at least he would be if Federer wasnt hitting the ball so hard, which is a pretty lame way to play. And we miss the charme it was with all the bad calls from linesmen. Its so boring that a computer can decide whether the ball is in or out.
The fact is the gameplay has envolved in to a much higher level. When I started playing, people played with 4 min time limit as a standart. That is simply not time enough to play at the standart people are playing today.
And would you shut up with the resource management crap. As if its rocket sience. Whether you play a rich or a poor map you build as many dwells as possible while keeping some money for the troops you need to handle the map. Its not very complicated. (and yes you play diffrently when you expect a week 1 or early week 2 meeting).
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Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted July 31, 2009 11:24 PM |
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I agree also with you Maretti, but this is how I understand Cahesi arguments about over resources:
If you are short on and expect a probable early meet the choice of main heros is quite vast and have to adapt and not use Tazar as soon as you see him, because he is like any other when at early levels.
If the area is blocked and you have enough resources and are not bothered with any surprise intrusion then of course the choice of the main is very restrain. I am aware of the statistics of used mains in WCL and it is conclusive. Only 5-6 heros are used to win a game, mostly because their specialties offer the best bonuses if fully developed. And they are ALWAYS full built when final battle occurs.
Memorizing a custom map is not giving an advantage when your opponent can be anywhere or doing unexpected things. So far the templates (the closed ones) offer an unique first week strategy. Of course, one can play better those moves, as always. Same happens on custom maps.
My personal feelings are that 3DO testers did not have a long term vision about the community modding and templates. If they saw it, then they would create a balance between might and magic, so the might heros could not use mass spells while the magic ones could not use concepts of armorer/offense. That would restore a balance between them and make all the game options feasible. So far, the direction the game involved is due to a game concept flaw.
No doubt that the game involved and changed. Is it for the best, we don't know. A confrontation between "old veterans" and new top players is not possible, due to obvious different approach.
@Maretti: off topic, I just found the saves from the game I was talking in other thread. Was Stinger-Maretti. Dragon dwelling on day 3 + portal using Shakti.
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Era II mods and utilities
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maretti
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted August 01, 2009 11:43 PM |
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Edited by maretti at 23:45, 01 Aug 2009.
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Where did you find those saves? I can asure you he didnt have a dragon dwell. I kind of know since I played the game. So if there should be such saves they must be from a diffrent game. I played castle and had jabarkas as main.
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Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted August 02, 2009 03:33 AM |
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My bad, it was Vasya. 2 dragons day 2 (Shakti) + additional one day 3 + 2 Topes in nearby area + manticores. You had no access to any tope or forsaken (I love the random lava where everything is kinda blocked). I guess he could not find all his life a better "random". That he lost is still a dilemma for me.
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Era II mods and utilities
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted August 02, 2009 11:14 AM |
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One little side note from me refering to those "open map" lovers:
From where do you think those rules "No level 4 spec. hero as main" came from?
From closed map players?
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted August 02, 2009 12:00 PM |
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Where were you by that time, to enjoy the show?
This is how things happened:
The "rules" were created by closed map players. First they could not handle an intense and aggressive game so they created the rules "no h&r", no red rush, no lev4 hero, no diplo, no necro, no logistic, no dim door and so on. As this did not change much their fate, they created the closed maps because at least in that case the game could last a bit longer. Of course they kept the above rules.
There is not such term as "open map lover". A good player can play any map and adapt to every situation, would it be a block between zones, or open field. But when it becomes an unique way of play like today, then I guess the term of "closed maps" player is created.
Some links about how veterans took the changes:
Here
Here
Open vs closed
What is the difference between veterans and today top players? ToH formers defended their opinion and gave valid arguments. Today top players arguments are insults and arrogance if you don't agree. Maybe the play level increased, as Maretti is trying to think, but the personality and charisma is really low, except him. One is not a great player because he plays perfectly in a few situation.
But anyway, who cares? Today the community is small and MP players have fun in this new environment. Kudos to SAG for bravely running the last HoMM3 bastion. Why would I say they are wrong? I only softly disagree, thats all.
I remember my first closed map experience turned terribly wrong:
Me and Frank were playing in team vs JB/Yawacko on the first closed map, CC. Yawacko got the cloak in water and started to harvest liche. Of course we were aware of that but could not do anything against, as 18 dragons blocked the way. So, when we got out second week he had about 250 liches and we got obliterated. At that moment I saw the biggest flaw in a closed map: impossibility to react fast if something goes not as you like. Studying saves from WCL brings the same conclusion: if a player gets an important advantage first week, ie he has open road to all three towns, topes, etc, while the other is blocked, the second will give up. Mostly because he can nothing against. He is blocked by guards. Such examples can be found in Hall of Fame saves.
Another example of how a rule is created: me allied to Andislayer vs Pandora/JB. Closed map. Pandora find random relics on first week crown +6 all and shield + 4, using Alamar as main. As armies are small his resurrect is showing to be very effective with those stats.
We have no chance, as the map is small and max possible level is 8-10, Alamar being ahead by 40 levels coz artefacts. I tell Andi to give me his army, I combine both forces, I break all areas first week and win.
Next day, the rule "no combine armies" was created in ToH. Thats how it works: if you can't defend against, just ban it.
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Era II mods and utilities
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted August 02, 2009 08:26 PM |
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You talk about close MAPS...where many luck factors were given and of course you were right...there is no chance to equal an early disadvantage. Be it coz of getting an Archangel from a camp day 2, or finding a relic in water / warrior's tomb. I totally agree. that's why fixed maps are more unbalanced than most of the players think.
But on a random, with just a few rules (dd, fly, diplo, carto, fmg), you can have a very balanced game, because everything is present in numerous times. Be it a tope, a camp, or dwells. Of course you can equal a disadvantage later on. You may have 2 dragons less than your opponent due to a missing dwell, but you may have much higher stats due to great relics from tope.
I know what I am talking about, coz the most tourneys I played online were on fixed maps. Especially 2vs2...I can't tell ya how often our opponents found a phoenix or a goldie in a camp day 2. Game is lost from that day on...on a fixed map....
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted August 02, 2009 10:41 PM |
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Absolutely true. The closed fixed maps were designed badly, with the principal hidden objective to give after all an excuse to the unfortunate player. The other got better artefacts, the other got a better refugee joiner, the other got more adventure map joiners.
The templates are a huge step in HoMM history. My example above shows that templates can also be a flaw if the randomness goes wrong. I am not sure another but Maretti could reverse a situation where Shakti has 3 dragons day 3. But would also be a good excuse if he lost.
However everyone adapted to the majority wish and started playing closed maps and templates because they could no more get a game elsewhere. Eventually formers from Oracle, Isle and ToH quit progressively the game which did not offer anymore the challenge they were accustomed to. HoMM involved and created new cliques, new leagues, new style of play.
I will not defend open maps against one who does not enjoy them. Just point that maps as Beltway, Seven lakes, Fire campaign are totally exempted of "luck" factor. Aggressive, fast, offering millions of strategies. Not topes, no relics, no huge stats. A game where every scout can become a main until he dies. A game where having Tazar/Mephala does NOT give a free win.
How come actual players make rules about no log, no diplo and no necro while they are allowed to use and build heros whose specialties give much better advantage then any relic, tope or dwelling?
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Era II mods and utilities
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Rainalcar
Promising
Famous Hero
Heroji su zakon
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posted August 02, 2009 11:34 PM |
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I never really liked fixed maps, for they were almost always utterly doll to me. Sure, when I played really often backdays I knew the battlefield looks of every significant tile on Hourglass, but realized soon enough that it all became more like solving equations, then playing a competitive multi game. I lacked the loss of intuition, and gave up fixed maps for good soonafter.
It is often true, as Maretti and Angelito pointed out, that in templates, game tends to balance itself, out of sheer possibilities for both players; stats canceled by creatures etc. I never really thought of this as a great minus. The only thing I truly disliked in randoms were fights which were all about using the wyvern (or sometimes angel) stack more effectively, that is, amassing them better. Sure, it is also a legit way of comparing players' quality, but the idiotic one to my opinion. I absolutely hate, and still do, creature hoarding possibilities in the game. This also amplifies some heroes, which are already (too) powerful, such as Hack when dealing with (full) Cons, and, imo, brings imbalance instead of reducing and, more importantly, dollness in the game. I am simply bored of those kind of fights. Still, all in all, templates were a great addon to the game, and that people play closed ones is just their choice: I enjoy many closed templates, while I dislike some, but the "closed" path was a logical step since it is much easier to balance a template which is built in such a way. Open templates (or think of island ones) often turn out into very unbalanced games. So, people just stuck to common, and time predictable games, such as Jebus today. Experimenting today is no less that it was in the past - very limited.
As for the quality of players, Maretti, and likely Protos from WCL, probably a few others I haven't played, would be among the best at any time, considering there is and never will be the best player. When I played I believe there were more top players in Europe, besides the Russians (which always had great competition, even until nowdays, and with which I played a lot), then there is now, which is logical, since so much time has passed since the game release. Seems to me that the russian scene retained more quality (in general) than the others, but simply because there are less people devoted to the game then there were before, imo.
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tigris
Supreme Hero
Supreme Noobolator
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posted August 03, 2009 01:49 AM |
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Edited by tigris at 16:38, 03 Aug 2009.
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I've really enjoyed reading the banter on this thread and I've also discovered the thread in SaG's part of the forums where the tournament between Russia vs The rest of the world was held.
I'm happy to see that so many familiar names are still around and that the spirit of this game is still alive.
I guess some things never change, some players speak through their games other through their tossing on the forums and never actually get to finish a game
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Casihasi
Known Hero
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posted August 04, 2009 04:25 PM |
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Maretti...i never wanted to say that current players are not good.
All i wanted to express is my boredom of the new style of playing, that`s all. Sorry if you took it the wrong way, iam sure it takes skill to run through those maps just as in the old days, it´s just...different. Opinions are like A$$holes, we all have one
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Paladin_H3
Hired Hero
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posted August 29, 2009 12:07 PM |
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Hi all,
To start with I am not russian nor am I .by player as I read.
As far as best players are concerned, I had very little experience playing current players.
But without doubt I think Marretti will top the list. I enjoy playin with him.
The main difference between him and most others I feel is that he constantly changes his strategy according to the situation and they are well informed risks he takes. No matter what temp. Plus really plays to win.
And add to that I completly agree to the statement about vets claming to be good about the good old days. What matters is now and I think the game has signficantly improved compared to the past.
You find most new players with better knowledge than those days. (Thanks to Heroes Community,other resourceful sites and also because they take the time to read and learn to be better).
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SAG
Promising
Supreme Hero
WCL owner
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posted October 12, 2011 09:31 AM |
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I really enjoyed reading this thread once again 
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I play HoMM3 at www.heroes-
III.com
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Lichemaster
Hired Hero
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posted October 13, 2011 10:20 AM |
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It was interesting to read first time, too.
Topic which is still actual.
So, I will add my opinion. Good heroes player should be open-minded and no matter, if he plays open/close fix/templ with quick scouts/final battle or with late game and big army FB. He should be able to adapt to every situation and different rules.
Ofc every player will have his own preferences. And nothing wrong is with playing Jebus.
It's like straight line story, can be interesting or boring. IMO mostly it is boring (more boring than many good MP fixed maps). But if I look at Jebus games played by good players i.e. Maretti, it is interesting, no matter what kind of templ/map he plays.
PS> Nowadays, it is possible to play really balanced random maps, with luck factor reduced to minimum and no rules needed (maybe only Red Rush), it is mirrored map in HeroesWT, and I hope in future there will be some international tournament with double elimination BO3 on mirror maps.
After this kind of tournament, it will be possible to announce (being sure in 99%), which player is the best in the world.
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