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| Thread: I find this very disturbing |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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JoonasTo
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted August 08, 2009 08:25 PM |
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Not being as a messed up person as I am.
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Doomforge
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posted August 08, 2009 09:25 PM |
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Quote:
Well, I am not a brat terrorist IRL (Internet doesn't count) and people from like Poland would probably consider all children in Sweden spoiled.
People from Poland usually have enough brains not to generalize and succumb to stupid stereotypes.
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Binabik
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posted August 08, 2009 09:48 PM |
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Quote:
We who received corporal punishment are clearly less stable people than those who didn't. Go figure
Maybe you received corporal punishment BECAUSE you were less stable.
It's easy for a parent to raise a kid using light discipline when the kid is a calm easy mannered and well behaved child. Just about any parent can do that. But it really tests their parenting skills when they raise a kid who is a total brat.
Yes, a large part of how a kid turns out is due to the way parents raise them. But a lot of it can simply be due to the kid's disposition. You can have a set of parents who raise two children in the same way, with the same home, school, neighborhood and playmates, and one kid can be a charm, and the other a complete terror.
The parents themselves play a major role, but no parent is a naturally perfect parent. It's impossible to even define what a perfect parent is. Yes, some parents are going to be better than others. Parents are going to make mistakes. There will be all kinds of environmental factors affecting the child. And there will be random events and situations that that the parents have absolutely no control over. And genetics can also play a big role. The parents are probably the biggest single factor, but far from the only factor affecting the kid.
Contrary to what a lot of you people seem to think, nobody here is saying that spanking is the ONLY possible punishment. It's just another available tool, but far from being the only tool. It would be rare for only one tool to work for a given child, or given situation. But that's not saying that one form of punishment can't be better than another. What the people who advocate spanking are saying is not nearly as black and white as what some of you seem to think.
You don't like the idea of physical pain, like when momma dog nips the puppy and it yelps. It yelps because it hurts. It's SUPPOSED to hurt. What you advocate is just a form of psychological pain rather than physical pain. You don't like my idea of spanking a kid until he cries? Kids cry when being made to sit in the corner also.
You look at spanking as violence. Breaking the leg of a 5 year old is violence and abusive. Spanking him is not, it's discipline. Constantly yelling at a kid and telling him he's a piece of **** and stupid is psychological violence and abusive. Sending a kid to the corner is not, it's discipline.
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JoonasTo
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted August 08, 2009 10:06 PM |
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Nah, I received corporal punishment because I am first born and my parents were inexperienced. My siblings never got corporal punishment.
I have a sister whose character matches mine pretty evenly but she's turning out much better.
I can understand you people who vow for corporal punishment. I know where your coming from. I used to think like that. Then I got a "revelation" so to speak. And my mind made a total change over.
I feel as I don't have much more to add to this topic. So with these words I leave this one.
"You wouldn't hit your dog, would you?"
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Fauch
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posted August 08, 2009 11:20 PM |
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Edited by Fauch at 23:21, 08 Aug 2009.
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not if it is bigger than me 
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Mytical
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posted August 09, 2009 06:26 AM |
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If a dog was about to bite a child? I would absolutely hit the dog. See that is the thing, causing minor pain to stop major pain from happening, to me, is not a moral delima. I wouldn't be all "Oh no doggy please don't!" and risk the dog still biting the child (or even another dog).
If a child bites/hits/scratches another child, you better bet that I would spank the child that bit/hit/scratched. Without hesitation or any remorse. That is the key though, the punishment does have to fit the crime. Physical violence or danger to themselves or others I can see using spanking for. Stealing, cursing, etc of course I would be against spanking.
Joonasto what I see from you is apparently different then what you see from yourself. You are (mostly) respectful, genuine, and friendly. A lot more then can be said for a LOT of people. I think you may have turned out better then you think of yourself. How are they better? More successful (financially)? Not a indicator of being a better human being. Have more friends? (Quantity does not beat quality).
While I am not a parent, I have helped raise some children. Even neighbors children have taken to calling me "Mama Becky" (or did now it is Mr. Osborne lol), and 90% of them respect me more then they do their parents. Because I treat them as human beings and not some china dolls that will break if somebody sneezes on them. (P.S. I keep telling them my father is Mr. Osborne but they still insist).
Their house, they fight/scream/and do whatever they want. My house they don't. Even their parents ask me how I get them so behaved when they visit  . Please and thank you's echo in my house (or did before I got ill and had to cut out the visits).
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TheDeath
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posted August 09, 2009 06:27 PM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 18:27, 09 Aug 2009.
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Mytical I think the point is beating a child because he didn't meet your expectations, or you think he didn't obey or respect you or something. Not beating him because he beats you or someone else.
So if your "dog" comes and breaks a window, you are going to beat it?
What if it does something stupid? Beat it?
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Darkshadow
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posted August 09, 2009 06:31 PM |
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Am going to skip all the talk about child spanking and say that from this thread it seems obvious that Xerox thinks the world spins around sweden 
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Azagal
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posted August 09, 2009 06:45 PM |
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You notice that now?
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Elvin 
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posted August 09, 2009 06:46 PM |
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Oh for a long time now. Thought you had noticed.
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Adrius
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posted August 09, 2009 06:49 PM |
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Edited by Adrius at 19:11, 09 Aug 2009.
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Thing about allowing that sort of discipline is that it can mess with the child abuse laws.
Think about it, a man/woman hits his child and says it's disciplining, what does the judge do?
Where does the line between disciplining and abuse go? It becomes complicated. As it is now, beating a child is wrong no matter the circumstances.
We have a similar thing with underage sex, dunno if this is the same in other countries though. When an adult has sex with an underage it's automatically considered rape, even if it was consensual, and the adult has no way to ease the punishment. Ergo, no discussions, no complications.
Quote:
the punishment does have to fit the crime
"The boy hit the neighbour's child with a hammer so I disciplined him with a hammer, it's not abuse."
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Keksimaton
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Talk to the hand
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posted August 09, 2009 07:10 PM |
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It's better to get beaten in a safe and familiar enviroment by people you know and trust, so you know what you are getting into as you venture into the great outdoors. It's a parent's job to prepare their child for a future life on their own.
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Geny
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted August 09, 2009 07:15 PM |
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Quote:
It's better to get beaten in a safe and familiar enviroment by people you know and trust
Regardless of the post or the topic as a whole, this quote is gold.
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Adrius
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posted August 09, 2009 07:16 PM |
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Edited by Adrius at 19:20, 09 Aug 2009.
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@Thread: There's no wonder miracle that works for every child, they're all different individuals and need to be treated as such.
Some kids might get the message of spanking, while others might just endure it. Some kids can listen to arguments, some cannot.
Every child has their own personality, it's the parent's job to use the treatment and disciplining that works best for their child. Just cuz your mum and dad treated you in this and that way doesn't mean that it'll do wonders to your own child.
EDIT: Despite Xerox's own posts being extremly naive and narrowminded his threads always become interesting, a good topic
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TheDeath
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posted August 09, 2009 07:24 PM |
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No it's not. Parents aren't perfect. Spanking never "works" as it should I mean, of course it has an IMMEDIATE effect (but fake which will fade, or the kid gets afraid), but that's the most short-sighted improvement one could expect from a so-called adult and responsible parent.
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Adrius
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posted August 09, 2009 07:30 PM |
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Was that directed at me? Cuz I don't get what you mean.
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TheDeath
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posted August 09, 2009 07:32 PM |
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Yeah it was directed to this:Quote:
it's the parent's job to use the treatment and disciplining that works best for their child
I agree except that spanking is never "treatment", IMO. Even if some parents think that way (just so you people don't pick on me for lack of experience, I remember JollyJoker said the same thing in another thread when the child spanking was brought up).
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Adrius
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posted August 09, 2009 07:39 PM |
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Edited by Adrius at 19:40, 09 Aug 2009.
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Ah alright, bad choice of words from my side maybe. But I do think it can be a "treatment" for bad behaviour, or at least part of the treatment.
Of course, you'd also have to explain what the child did wrong, otherwise the child might just end up being afraid of you, and not actually understanding the meaning behind the punishment (this applies to all sorts of punishment)
If the child is only afraid of you, he'd have no problem doing bad stuff outside the house.
I think this is what you meant with "but fake which will fade, or the kid gets afraid", if I understood you correctly, and in that case I agree.
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Mytical
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posted August 10, 2009 06:59 AM |
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Quote:
Mytical I think the point is beating a child because he didn't meet your expectations, or you think he didn't obey or respect you or something. Not beating him because he beats you or someone else.
So if your "dog" comes and breaks a window, you are going to beat it?
What if it does something stupid? Beat it?
No, you are incorrect in this whole post here. The point is not beating at all. If a child is doing or going to be doing something dangerous to itself or somebody else, you act then and you act to make sure the child knows it is dangerous. Punishment after the fact is, for me, punishments like grounding. During the fact, or preferrably before the fact (ie the intent is obvious) is best.
If a little pain will stop them from getting hurt worse, or hurting somebody/something worse I have no qualms about it. Let us talk about 'psychological torture' for a moment. As somebody mentioned being psychologically abusive would be no better right? Since any method of 'punishment' can be argued to be either physical or psychological abuse..then what is left?
Making bargains with, begging, or bribeing. Which tells the children "Hey you can get away with anything, and if you do something wrong somebody will bend over backwards to give you things so you don't do that anymore." Not a message I want our children to receive myself. Leads to a sense of entitlement where they think that the world owes them something, or that they can do whatever they want. Anybody else can raise their child this way (to be a brat) all they want. I won't ever agree with it, period. Maybe it is a good thing I will never have children.
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angelito
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posted August 10, 2009 07:39 AM |
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Quote:
No it's not. Parents aren't perfect. Spanking never "works" as it should I mean, of course it has an IMMEDIATE effect (but fake which will fade, or the kid gets afraid), but that's the most short-sighted improvement one could expect from a so-called adult and responsible parent.
I have to disagree here. of course parents should NEVER EVER beat a child in the face or the head in general! Just to make that point clear from the very beginning.
But kids just don't understand everything you tell them from the very beginning. And of course the "rebellion genes" seem to be present in every child..
So if your child takes a knife from the table and palys around with it, you can tell it 4 times, or even 35 times. It just won't understand what's the problem. And I don't want to wait until my little daughter has cut her finger so she may learn from her fault. A slap on her fingers when she wants to get the knife again helped much more.
Same goes when she starts to open the oven and the heat comes right into her face. I don't wanna imagine what could happen if you just look away for 3 seconds (phone rings...), and she opens the door and tries to get the cake...
So a slap on the fingers for telling her: "NO, you are not allowed to touch that!", is very fine for me.
But I will repeat myself: of course I would never beat her in the face! Because this just doesn't have any learning effect...it's just (as mentioned already) for making the child getting afraid.
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