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| Thread: Compassion for murderers and other criminals |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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baklava
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Mostly harmless
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posted August 24, 2009 03:14 AM |
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Quote:
Compassion.
I hope they get the needle.
But this is the 21st century, not the needle ages.
...
Get it? Get it?
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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Binabik
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posted August 24, 2009 04:41 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Compassion.
I hope they get the needle.
But this is the 21st century, not the needle ages.
...
Get it? Get it?
*Recommends for negative peanut*
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JollyJoker
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posted August 24, 2009 08:09 AM |
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@ Elodin
Please. Look at this:
http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/05/28/libya.lockerbie.settlement/
http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2003/sc7868.doc.htm
One is CNN News, the others the UN SC press release.
The thing is that this was a demand of the UN: if Libya wanted to normalize their relations to the rest of the world, they had to do a couple of things, one thing among them accepting responsibility. Libya did that, and look at the actual phrasing:
Quote:
Libya accepted responsibility for the actions of its officials
That doesn't mean they ORDERED something; it just means:
IF a Libyan official has taken part in any terrorist crimes, then they make recompensations as they - ultimately - take responsibility. It was NOT admitting to anything they did or did not.
Libya was to be treated as an example of how former "evil" countries can come back into the community of states. It was just politics. It proves nothing.
I add, that the wiki article is pretty good because it names a lot of reliable sources. Whether you like it or not, that case is a stinker, and the guy is NOT released out of compassion but in the interest of avoiding a scandal and keep the lid closed on things.
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Elodin
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posted August 24, 2009 03:22 PM |
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Edited by Elodin at 15:24, 24 Aug 2009.
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The links you present do nothing for your claim that Libya is not responsible or at least has not been proven to be responsible. Oh and ALL the reports I have seen say he was released out of compassion for him having cancer, not because a mistake had been made.
CNN
Quote:
"He has to get out of the terrorism business and take responsibility," Shultz said. "The money isn't the issue. It's his taking responsibility and swearing off terrorism. Now he has to come clean and help us."
UN
Quote:
"He then proceeded to describe the situation, which had led to the imposition of sanctions in 1992, after proof of Libya’s responsibility for the bombing had been uncovered, as well as the latest developments, which had allowed the Council to remove those measures.
Quote:
IF a Libyan official has taken part in any terrorist crimes, then they make recompensations as they - ultimately - take responsibility. It was NOT admitting to anything they did or did not.
Libya was to be treated as an example of how former "evil" countries can come back into the community of states. It was just politics. It proves nothing.
Sorry, it was not "just politics" and Libya just taking responsibility for something it did not do. Again, prove your claim with a reputable source. Wiki is not a reputable source.
If your claim were true the leftist CNN/ABC/CBS/NBC would love to proclaim it on every news report for months at a time.
Libya was a well known sponsor of terrorism and only stopped after Reagan did some bombing after that Qaddafi got rather quiet. Of course now with an American president who is weak Libya was not afraid to give the bomber a heroe's welcome.
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Darkshadow
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posted August 24, 2009 03:44 PM |
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Have to do an offtopic comment here.
Quote:
now with an American president who is weak Libya was not afraid to give the bomber a heroe's welcome.
It's not the president that is weak.It's the nation and the people that are weak.
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sith_of_ziost
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posted August 24, 2009 05:05 PM |
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This is starting to be a gardwn sprawl of arguement, and quite frankly, I can't keep up. I'm pulling out.
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JollyJoker
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posted August 24, 2009 07:57 PM |
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@Elodin
[Edited on demand of the board directors] Your last post seems to be another example for what seems to be the main slogan of your posting life: "If I want it to be true, it must be true."[/Edited on demand of the board directors] Let's review the facts:
1) New York Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/29/world/europe/29lockerbie.html?_r=1
Enough evidence was found to suspect a "miscarriage of justice". Enough material to justify an appeal and a completely new trial that had started in April.
2) Libya did not ADMIT anything. They just took responsibility "for the actions of their officials" and offered payment
under the following condistions:
40% of the money would be released when United Nations sanctions, suspended in 1999, were cancelled;
another 40% when U.S. trade sanctions were lifted; and
the final 20% when the U.S. State Department removed Libya from its list of states sponsoring terrorism.
That's a clear deal: Libya gave something and GOT A LOT IN RETURN.
I repeat, they TOOK RESPONSIBILITY (the guy had been convicted), but they didn't admit anything. You don't think they would have gotten those conditions if they gad admitted they had anything to do with it, do you?
3) Now think about the ramifications of a possible successful appeal - this would give Libya reason to demand the compensation back - obviously. Moreover it would reopen the case that is now closed - who did it, if not the Libyan guy?
Which is the OBVIOUS reason the guy is getting out "on compassion" - if they wouldn't release him the appeal would go on - with possibly gruesome consequences.
Now, you can accept that and leave it at that or rant on about how unjust compassion for a convicted bomber is, I don't care one way or another. I won't even mention that "compassion" is supposed to be a Christian virtue.
But you could at least stop starting every second sentence with "sorry". YOU ARE NOT SORRY.
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Elodin
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posted August 24, 2009 11:02 PM |
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Edited by Elodin at 23:05, 24 Aug 2009.
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My posting was neither a joke nor a rant. Calling other people's postings rants and jokes just because you disagree with them is not helpful and usually points to the weakness of the the arguments of the person doing so.
I assume you are calling the Scottish offial who released the bomber a liar because he said he released the bomber for compassionate reasons. Maybe you could show evidence that he is a liar rather than your own opinions.
He was found guilty in a court of law. That is the fact. He dropped his appeal before the official decided to release him. That is a fact. If he were not guilty why did he drop his appeal? Libya has been a state sponsor of terrorism and admitted guilt in the incident. That is a fact.
This incident should make the US hold its own trials in such terrorist attacks in the future when Americans die.
Oh, yeah, I forgot the FACT that he received a heroe's welcome in Libya.
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Jormungand
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posted August 25, 2009 11:51 AM |
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Impale that so-called hero, let him suffer a most terrifying and horrible death, torture him with medieval stuff!!!
 above words are chosen with care and not a joke
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Totoro
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in User
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posted August 25, 2009 12:50 PM |
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Quote:
Every will is selfish, then?
No, if you see someone sad, you may want to console him/her.
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angelito
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posted August 25, 2009 06:40 PM |
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Quote:
Impale that so-called hero, let him suffer a most terrifying and horrible death, torture him with medieval stuff!!!
above words are chosen with care and not a joke
You need a doctor....
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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xerdux
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Famous Hero
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posted August 25, 2009 10:51 PM |
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In my opinion the main goal of the prisons is to make the criminals fit into the society again. Killing or torturing them makes nobody happy... -.-
Unless you are a cold-blooded dinosaur.
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TheDeath
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with serious business
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posted August 26, 2009 12:44 AM |
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Quote:
Unless you are a cold-blooded dinosaur.
Why would you have a problem with cold-blooded dinosaurs when you think cold-blooded killers deserve good prison conditions?
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The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
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blizzardboy
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posted August 26, 2009 01:08 AM |
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Dangerous prison conditions are a breeding ground for gangs to form, such that prison can become an unofficial academy to learn about crime and get connections. It's unacceptable if the statistical chances of committing a felony are drastically increased after a person goes to jail. When you shift your goal to protection & correction, the repeat offenses are lowered, and everybody benefits (or doesn't suffer as much).
But if the public is bloodthirsty for criminals to "have it tough", then there's not going to be a whole lot of initiative for change. People condemn rape in public yet more often condone it within the prisons. So they really get what they asked for when an abused and disturbed person gets out of jail and then rapes their daughter. That's a lewd example, but that's what it really comes down to. If people don't want prisons to be more effective, they're going to suffer for it as well.
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TheDeath
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posted August 26, 2009 01:17 AM |
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Since I was talking about cold-blooded killers, they aren't supposed to ever get out anyway. 
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The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
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Elodin
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posted August 26, 2009 01:48 AM |
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@ blizzardboy
A majority of inmates were gang members before being incarcerated. Most also did not get caught the first time they committed the crime. They were not thrown into prison innocent and then corrupted by the other inmates.
The concept of rehabilitation has failed. It does not work because for a person to change a person has to want to change. You can't educate a bad person into being a good person.
I am not saying punishment like torture and such. I am talking about making them work hard and not giving them luxuries. Prison should be made to be a very unpleasant experience.
It is time to return prisons to being a place of punishment. In US prisons most inmates have no job. They watch TV or play on the recreation yard all day on most days. Tax payers would be shocked if they knew about how some of the inmate live.
I do not know about the statistics of rape in prison but I know it has been greatly reduced. The inmates are housed with others of a similar height, weight, and age. Inmates can also easier claim "life endangerment" to be placed in protective custody.
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baklava
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posted August 26, 2009 12:00 PM |
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@Angelito
Vlad Dracula did that and there was virtually no crime in his dominion
____________
"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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Shyranis
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted August 26, 2009 12:10 PM |
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Quote:
@Angelito
Vlad Dracula did that and there was virtually no crime in his dominion
I knew a few ladies from Transylvania. One of them was kind of scary and the other ones would call her "Dragon lady" behind her back.
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baklava
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posted August 26, 2009 12:17 PM |
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Dracula actually didn't really have much to do with Transylvania, which was under Hungarian rule back then. Mostly southern Romania, or Wallachia, was his dominion.
Fun fact
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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xlnt
Known Hero
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posted August 28, 2009 02:49 PM |
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It's sad excuse for a society where ppl get judged, where there are laws and conditions.
When my computer overheats i don't just cool it - i find out why and try to solve my problem at its core...
Why there are killers? A saintly society would remove the reason for the killing, not the killer - otherwise law is just what the stronger one would make his slaves do.
Law is slavery and separation and it is now what we should be doing, we rather learn how to solve problems.
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