|
| Thread: Limited Rights or Limited Government? [religious opinions not banned from this thread |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 · «PREV / NEXT» |
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
posted March 31, 2013 03:38 PM |
|
|
Hey Shyranis, saying that 80% of french people are ridiculous because they agree on burqa issue is making you at least as intolerant as the formers. It had to be done, for much more than one reason. It is difficult to judge local decisions without knowing what was the trigger, the social ambiance and such.
____________
Era II mods and utilities
|
|
Tsar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
|
|
posted March 31, 2013 03:49 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Freedom is awesome
Not in a society it isn't. 
____________
"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted March 31, 2013 04:00 PM |
|
|
Quote:
saying that 80% of french people are ridiculous because they agree on burqa issue is making you at least as intolerant as the formers
What is that issue, where does she say what?
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted March 31, 2013 04:28 PM |
|
|
She compared ban gay marriage with ban burqa in France and said both are equally ridiculous. Well, 80% of french people (the others 20% are muslims so don't expect to agree) are for, it is their business.
And no, is not about "head-wear", as she write, is about this, to not confuse with head-wear. Shyranis, frankly, would you hire a nanny who refuses to let you see her face? Just an example.
____________
Era II mods and utilities
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted March 31, 2013 04:43 PM |
|
Edited by artu at 16:44, 31 Mar 2013.
|
|
Well, head scarfs are a different story but a burqa is taking away someone's smile, facial expressions and recognisability. It has to have an erasing effect of personality in longer terms and women are put into it and familiarized to it at a very young age, so the whole argument of free will is at question. Besides, remember how slave owners used to defend slavery, they called upon a slave and asked him aren't you happy Joe, what would you do with freedom, do you want it? No, sir, I'm very happy sir, thank you sir...
|
|
Tsar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
|
|
posted March 31, 2013 04:50 PM |
|
|
The good ol' days.
____________
"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
|
|
Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
|
|
posted March 31, 2013 06:11 PM |
|
|
Quote:
would you hire a nanny who refuses to let you see her face? Just an example.
No, I wouldn't. But that in itself is not a reason for the government to ban the practice.
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted March 31, 2013 06:43 PM |
|
|
|
Well, they don't. Only in PUBLIC.
|
|
xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted March 31, 2013 06:44 PM |
|
|
|
It's stupid to criminalize burqas for consenting adults. Now parents forcing religion on their children is another thing.
|
|
Shyranis
Promising
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted March 31, 2013 06:59 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Hey Shyranis, saying that 80% of french people are ridiculous because they agree on burqa issue is making you at least as intolerant as the formers. It had to be done, for much more than one reason. It is difficult to judge local decisions without knowing what was the trigger, the social ambiance and such.
I was framing the Burqa ban in terms I had seen before describing them from the OP.
Also, is it intolerant to say you believe something is ridiculous? I'm not saying people who support it should have anything done to them or should do anything itself, nor am I trying to change the law in France or saying things should be handled differently. I'm also not saying people who support it are bad people.
I think street mimes are ridiculous. Am I intolerant of them? I realize you are sensitive about the issue but you may have read too much into it. I'm sorry that it came off to you like an attack. It was never the intent.
____________
Youtube has terminated my account without reason.
Please express why it should be reinstated on
Twitter.
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted March 31, 2013 07:39 PM |
|
|
Quote:
No, I wouldn't. But that in itself is not a reason for the government to ban the practice.
But then you don't see here is the problem? You wouldn't. Then you will be sued for discrimination and will lose process, if no law. This was mainly the problem which occurred with endless companies, schools or universities, bosses needed employees capable of communicating face to face, show emotions, tease the client, and they were sued and lost when refused or fired someone style black submarine.
And yes, is banned only in public.
Quote:
Also, is it intolerant to say you believe something is ridiculous?
Well, sorry to say but all your post is a veiled form of intolerance at its best. In fact, you gently prone tolerance all over, yet you speak in very harsh terms about those not sharing your opinions. ( to quote: weak personal convictions, weak faith, ridiculous decision and so on). If others have strong opinions (gay marriage opponents are not fonding their arguments on anti-gay so far but on the belief of a sacred institution-in their eyes), then respect must be mutual. And discuss, not throw labels and play superior.
____________
Era II mods and utilities
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted March 31, 2013 07:54 PM |
|
|
Quote:
It's stupid to criminalize burqas for consenting adults.
I already told you about the age thing and the thing is when it's traditions of Islam and women, it's very hard to detect what is consensual or not.
|
|
Shyranis
Promising
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted March 31, 2013 08:01 PM |
|
Edited by Shyranis at 22:26, 31 Mar 2013.
|
Text really can't convey a friendly tone. I've never held myself to be anything but equal to everybody here. We've all had our disagreements on various subjects, moving on 
As I said before, I was addressing Elodin in this case. I can see you took the small quip very seriously though and as mentioned, I meant no offense. I'm not silencing dissenting opinions (a true mark of intolerance) nor am I blantantly dismissing them. Everybody's opinion is a valid one and diversity of opinion is what can make a society adaptable in the face of adversity.
What's more, I find the concept of two women making love to be ridiculous (being straight and all), but I support its place in society.
____________
Youtube has terminated my account without reason.
Please express why it should be reinstated on
Twitter.
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted March 31, 2013 08:06 PM |
|
|
Equal rights for all: I am not ALLOWED to veil in public, because if I do I am considered a security risk: why am I not showing my face? Do I have something to hide? If I enter a bank - veiled - I have a problem. Or think school. Girls wearing a burqua? *I* want to wear one, too. Because it's cool, if no one can see my face. If a muslim girl is allowed to appear in school with a burqa, EVERYONE must be allowed to as well.
Religion is no exception. If a religious practice demands a behaviour that is not tolerated for the rest of society - no luck.
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted March 31, 2013 08:10 PM |
|
|
|
In schools what I addressed as recognisability will be a big problem. A person can take an exam replacing someone else, appear in class etc etc.
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted March 31, 2013 09:04 PM |
|
|
Quote:
If a religious practice demands a behaviour that is not tolerated for the rest of society - no luck.
if only was that, but is not. So far no one could show where covering from head to toe day and night is required by any religion (hijab yes, but is different). it is more an attitude and a request from muslim men which think the visible face/body of a women provokes dirty thoughts.
Not surprised, knowing that they follow a prophet who fornicated with 9 years old girls.
|
|
xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted March 31, 2013 11:11 PM |
|
|
Quote:
In schools what I addressed as recognisability will be a big problem. A person can take an exam replacing someone else, appear in class etc etc.
Well, make it so you can't have a burqa during an exam. Or have some way to identify the veiled person. It's hardly discrimination since you can choose to not wear a burqa.
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted April 01, 2013 01:41 AM |
|
|
There is no "take it off during this or that" According to the them you have to wear it where ever there are men other than your husband,
brother or father. I remember one of my teachers in college telling the story of a girl who refused to take it off before an exam even when she said "child, I am a woman, why not show your face to me once" And this wasn't the burqa, you could still see her eyes. The burqa is not an opportunity for you to show how liberal or respectful of other cultures you are. It's a fabric prison and personally I don't think anybody not brainwashed at the level of "damaged" would be wearing it willingly.
|
|
xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted April 01, 2013 02:37 AM |
|
Edited by xerox at 02:39, 01 Apr 2013.
|
you shouldn't get to decide what other adults choose to wear, no matter how brainwashed they might be
But society should certainly not adapt to burqas and other veils. In Sweden, companies that deny to hire people with veils get sued for discrimination. I think that's wrong. For me, discrimination only applies against unchangeable conditions. Like skin colour. You can easily take off a veil but it's harder to shapeshift into another person.
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted April 01, 2013 02:41 AM |
|
Edited by artu at 02:53, 01 Apr 2013.
|
No, but I should be able to not hire an employee if I cant recognize her, without getting sued for discrimination.
Edit: I see you've enhanced your post and added the getting sued part, mine was a reply to the first version with just the first sentence.And the "You can easily take off a veil" part indicates you still dont get it creates a psychology of its own. These people can't simply take it off if they want to. What you suggest is like raising a child as a hardcore Nazi and then asking him to marry a Jewish girl. After some point it is not a matter of decision, it is to be conditioned to a mindset beyond your control.
|
|
|
|
