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| Thread: [Mod Design] Faction Independent Class System |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV |
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Thanquol
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 29, 2010 12:57 AM |
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IMO then making the unique edge of only of 2 factions available to all the other factions - without giving those 2 factions anything new and unique in return - is going to be unbalancing.
My approach will be that every secondary skill is equally powerful, and every class can pick exactly 6 skills out of a pool of 12. It doesn't matter what the total amount of skills useful for a certain faction is.
It is very well possible to play a faction without using the racial skill, it is not like gating > leadership. Furthermore do not forget that dungeon is still the only faction that can use elemental chains and haven is the only one that can use training. The total amount of useful skills for haven is 18, for dungeon it is 19, for stronghold it is 14. So it is actually stronghold that has the fewest options. Dungeon and haven are very well stocked. The max is Inferno with 20 options.
You are missing the point.
Even if you argue that the other factions will have to choose to make use of their unique ability then Haven and Dungeon will no longer have a choice to choose something unique to their faction with your current design.
Although you are right about both Haven and Dungeon towns having a building that boosts the effects of Counterstrike and Irresistable they are still deprived of any true uniqueness, since any player capturing a Haven/Dungeon town will be able to make use of the effect of those buildings ... if they have a hero with the Counterstrike/Irresistable skill of course (and in case of Elemental Chains for units - then choosing to fight with Dungeon units as well).
I would feel a lot better if you could make more of the racial skills available (and adopt some more classes). The only thing preventing Avenger from becomming usefull to other factions atm seems to be a matter of finding a solution to getting around the activation building.
Perhaps if it could be implemented that favored enemies were automatically chosen based on number of enemies killed in the game then Avenger could be usefull to all factions as well.
For any of the other racial skills to be usefull for all faction, it would require that the unit affecting effect would work for units from all factions ... well, perhaps not ALL the units, but units that it would make sense being able to make use of the offered ability (ie. Gating Black Dragons? No. Gating Angels? Yes.)
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted January 29, 2010 11:23 AM |
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since any player capturing a Haven/Dungeon town will be able to make use of the effect of those buildings ... if they have a hero with the Counterstrike/Irresistable skill of course (and in case of Elemental Chains for units - then choosing to fight with Dungeon units as well).
No, the buildings are useless to other classes this is a hard coded restriction, I have tested it.
But even if we assume for moment you are right that Haven is an underpowered faction, despite the fact that training is often considered an overpowered ability on multiplayer forums. Then how is making avenger available to them going to change that? Even if I was able to build a perfectly working avenger guild in the haven town (which is impossible), then a knight (like any other class) is still restricted to picking 6 skills out of 12. If I add avenger to the knight skillwheel I will have to remove another skill, and if a knight picks avenger during development it will have to sacrifice another useful skill (logistics/War machines/Leadership/offense/defense/Light magic etc.). All those skills are actually more popular then avenger.
I understand you don't like it on paper. I have tried very hard to make avenger available to other factions, because I think it's the only remaining racial that has the potential to fit in other factions. But so far I have not been able to do it. If you are willing to do another extensive research on the data.pak to try to make it possible, let me know the results.
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Thanquol
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 30, 2010 02:35 AM |
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You keep missing the point though, but I am not sure I can explain in any clearer terms than I already have.
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Thanquol
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 30, 2010 02:40 AM |
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If you are willing to do another extensive research on the data.pak to try to make it possible, let me know the results.
Oh I was never expecting enhancements like I am talking about to come about from fiddling with the files in the data.pak alone. This is definetly going to require some EXE tinkering.
I am sorry if I got the wrong impression that you were working from that perspective as well.
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted January 30, 2010 10:35 AM |
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Oh I was never expecting enhancements like I am talking about to come about from fiddling with the files in the data.pak alone. This is definetly going to require some EXE tinkering.
If you would be able to do that you would be the first, so far people have only been able to change some numbers in the H5 exe, not changing complete codelines. For me this is going to require too much time with too small chances for success. I hope you will manage it tho.
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Thanquol
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 30, 2010 04:07 PM |
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I know what you mean. If only they had made HoMM5 even half as modable as Civ 4.
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