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| Thread: Native Americans |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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angelito
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posted October 06, 2009 08:06 AM |
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Quote:
Even in a country this big, a milliom immigrants a year is a heck of a lot of people to provide for.
What would the world series of Baseball look alike without immigrants? 
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ByteBandit
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posted October 06, 2009 08:12 AM |
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LoL!! Go Angels!!
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Binabik
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posted October 06, 2009 08:17 AM |
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Quote:
The Trail of Tears. One of the darkest episodes, to me, in US history
100% agree
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ByteBandit
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posted October 06, 2009 08:28 AM |
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Another thing many people may not know, is that when Americans started heading west to Oregon and crossed the Indian territories, small bands of Natives would approach the travellers and ask for payment across the territory. Something simple like a watch, or gunpowder or some food. Those that gave the small bands something were never bothered again until they came to the next tribal territory and had to go through all that again.
But if you gave them nothing, they felt you were tresspassing and were unwelcome and they taunted throughout the passage.
Is'nt that kinda like today, where you have to pay a toll across a bridge or something? Yes, we learned a lot from the Natives.
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Doomforge
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posted October 06, 2009 08:46 AM |
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Elodin and Binabik, thanks for answers. Well, thanks to everyone, actually.
To clarify, Binabik and Elodin:
Just don't try to tell me it's American bashing, cause I don't have anything against Americans in particular. I'm asking cause I'm curious, even if it sounds like bashing (it is not.) Why Americans and not, idk, Brazilians?
Well, why not?  We don't have many Brazilians here, but we do have a fair share of Americans.
I already asked Germans about their opinions on Nazism if that's what you want to hear.
I like to ask different Nations of the darker times of their history, cause it almost feels like a taboo, and I hate taboos.
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Mytical
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posted October 06, 2009 08:49 AM |
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Some of us have different ideas on our nations darkest days. Hiroshima for one. I won't get into a debate if it was neccessary or not. Something like that..that is a dark dark day regardless.
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Message received.
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Binabik
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posted October 06, 2009 08:54 AM |
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Doomforge, I wasn't accusing you of bashing and your opening post didn't seem that way. I only meant that the thing about Indians is a common target for the America bashers.
OK, so no Brasilians here, but there's lots of Canadians, ask them.
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winterfate
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posted October 06, 2009 08:55 AM |
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@Mytical: 
I'm not touching Hiroshima or Nagasaki, lest I get dragged into a political war.
My beef is how the US treats other nuclear countries nowadays...when the only documented attack using nuclear technology in HISTORY was by the American military. 
Food for thought.
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Mytical
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posted October 06, 2009 09:02 AM |
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Our Government is Snows, some of us know this. Demoncrat or Reappublicand(more) makes no difference. (No that is NOT bad spelling).
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Mytical
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posted October 06, 2009 09:04 AM |
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Ok, back on topic people.
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JollyJoker
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posted October 06, 2009 09:27 AM |
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Everyone has dark stains in their past. Native Americans? What about the Aborigines in Australia?
Even a country like Sweden - notorious for their cruelty in the 30 years war.
Canada and the Innuit someone? Danes and Greenland.
Let's not dwell on the past too much, let's care for the present.
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winterfate
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posted October 06, 2009 09:41 AM |
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Quote:
Let's not dwell on the past too much, let's care for the present.
Quoted for truth AND emphasis.
The past also happens to have one basic problem (barring time machines):
You can't change it. 
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If you supposedly care about someone, then don't push them out of your life. Acting like you're not doing it doesn't exempt you from what I just said. - Winterfate
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Binabik
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posted October 06, 2009 09:45 AM |
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@JJ, to quote Bak, keeping in mind that this thread was largely aimed at Elodin......
Quote:
I think this thread's about showing certain Americans that their country isn't founded on liberty and God-given endless goodness any more than any other
Fortunately, most Americans think that whole God-given goodness stuff is a load of crap.
It was a chance to start fresh and that's about it. But there's hundreds of sci-fi books written with that theme:
~group of people go to new land, or new planet
~people try to learn from past mistakes and do things better
~works ok for a while then eventually it becomes just as bad as it was before
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JollyJoker
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posted October 06, 2009 10:32 AM |
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Edited by angelito at 18:03, 06 Oct 2009.
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Binabik, aiming a post at Elodin with the purpose of showing him an alternate view on things or presenting facts to him not in alignment with his view on things is simply a waste of time.
That has been made abundantly clear with the slavery question - which wasn't, after all, invented by the US, and since the US haven't invented the "territorial war" either, nor any other evil, they are excused for everything they did and do as a matter of course.
Edit by angelito
No need to get personal here JJ. The topic is about native americans, not the debate behaviour of other users!
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Doomforge
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posted October 06, 2009 10:48 AM |
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Perhaps you are right JJ. Elodin doesn't want to listen, usually 
But there is still the other purpose of the topic: to discuss the current situation of Native Americans.
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del_diablo
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posted October 06, 2009 11:32 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Let's not dwell on the past too much, let's care for the present.
Quoted for truth AND emphasis.
If one do not learn from the past, the mistakes from the past will be made again~
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JollyJoker
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posted October 06, 2009 11:34 AM |
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I agree, and it's interesting.
I was just posting because I don't see any real sense in BICKERING about the past, of whether it was right or not and so on. Basically every strip of land has changed ownership in the course of history, so what does "rightful ownership" mean? Nothing at all.
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Doomforge
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posted October 06, 2009 12:01 PM |
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Oh and just btw:
Gayanashagowa
In case you don't believe me
It is hard to estimate when this was established but one thing is certain: a few hundred years before US constitution.
That's why I think it's ironic that the settlers considered them "wild". Socially, they were far superior than any of the European nations of that time. When Europeans adopted feudalism, those "wild" people already had their form of constitution. I believe the most recent estimation is around the year of 1150 or so.
Pretty weird that Elodin doesn't know that part:
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Today there is a growing number of historians who acknowledge that the native peoples especially the Haudenosaunee (People of the Longhouse), also known as the Iroquois Confederacy, influenced the founding fathers. The Haudenosaunee influenced the founding fathers' perspective concerning democratic thought, and they helped to forge the idea of federalism that led to what has become the Constitution of the United States.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Mytical
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posted October 06, 2009 12:17 PM |
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History glosses over a lot of stuff. I mean, we don't want our kids to think the Founding Fathers were anything but the All Knowing, All Wise, Greatest men in history do we?
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Elodin
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posted October 06, 2009 01:42 PM |
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Quote:
One more note to Elodin and his list, especially no. 6
Quote:
6) The human race for all of recorded history has battled for territory.
Why do you blame the mexicans nowadays then for illegally coming to the states, when it is ok for you the europeans came 1492 and illegally took away the lands of the natives that time?
So you are claiming the US can cram an unlimited number of people in its borders? 
One-Third of Mexicans would come to the US if they could according to a recent poll. The same could be said of a number of places.
Those who wish to immigrate to the US should do so LEGALLY.
Allowing massive immigration would be devastating to the economy.
Oh, you seem to have a reading comprehension problem. I said what the Europeans did was not good. The very first words of my post were "I certainly don't agree with what was done."
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