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| Thread: The Man With The Beard |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT» |
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baklava
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Mostly harmless
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posted February 21, 2010 12:52 PM |
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The Man With The Beard
Discuss.
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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Azagal
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Smooth Snake
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posted February 21, 2010 02:32 PM |
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Well... the ehm... the guy without the beard was being an major a$$hole harrasing beardman. Sure the beardman overreacted (one of the conditions of Selfdefense is the principle of adequacy... and well ok he was attacked (in a lose interpretation of the word) the selfdefense part was pretty much over after the second punch. Everything after that would be an excess) but the guy got what he deserved. Especially since he was STILL mouthing off afterwards and they even got so far as to steal his bag. Willingly steal his bag... I mean come on. Don't be such dip****s... the whole thing is going to become really annoying though since one of them has a beard while the other one doesn't so we'll have the whole beard-suppremacist thing going again eventhough people won't get that this entirely unbeard-related.
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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baklava
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Mostly harmless
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posted February 21, 2010 02:35 PM |
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Edited by baklava at 14:36, 21 Feb 2010.
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Couldn't agree more Az. Wouldn't have put it better meself.
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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veco
Legendary Hero
who am I?
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posted February 21, 2010 02:37 PM |
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If he stopped after 2 punches it would turn up to be a fight. And EBM prevented it by wiping the floor with him . I fear that Beard racism will become a pressing concern in the near future...
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none of my business.
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted February 21, 2010 06:40 PM |
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Seems to me the black guy got what was coming to him. Though, I couldn't really figure out what the argument was over since the beginning was all muffled.
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blizzardboy
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posted February 21, 2010 10:36 PM |
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Two angry persons, zero gentlemen = blood drawn. Hopefully that never got taken to court cause really both of them are right and both of them are wrong.
That 67-year-old guy was pretty alpha in taking down the young guy though. Santa Clause got ripped in 4 weeks, yo. Cell Tech Supplement all the way.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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frostwolf
Famous Hero
livin' in a bottle of vodka
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posted February 21, 2010 10:45 PM |
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Argument starts between two persons.
One person walks away and moves to the front of the bus.
The other person continues the harassment he (apparently) started in the first place and fallows the first person. Then hits him. Then gets his a** kicked.
Add age difference to all that.
Pretty clear to me.
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What can you expect from a world where everybody lives because they're too afraid to commit suicide?
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blizzardboy
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posted February 21, 2010 11:26 PM |
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I can't see the part where the young guy hits him. It looks like Santa just gets up and dishes out the pain.
This situation is a retarded mess. In general though, I don't at all buy the argument that self-defense is invalidated if you throw some extra blows into a person. I guess I'd be going to jail then, because I can say with 99% certainty that if some guy was attacking me and I managed to send him to the ground, I would definitely pound some extra blows into him to make sure he stays down. I'm not going to stand there with my thumb up my *** and let him get up so I can resume defending myself and possibly another person or persons. This is my property, health, and possibly life that we're talking about; it's not a sport match. Of course there's a limit to that as well, and pounding a fallen attacker into an indiscernible pulp isn't justified, but I'm sure you understand my point. If you invalidate self-defense because of even one "extra" blow, you're going to be doing a lot of harm rather than good.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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Azagal
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posted February 21, 2010 11:48 PM |
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Edited by Azagal at 23:53, 21 Feb 2010.
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I guess the difference isn't quite clear. By going over the limit of what is covered by "selfdefense" there are two outcomes. If you do so due to confusion, Fear or shock /being scarred it doesn't count as overstepping your boundaries since you either weren't aware that you were overstepping boundaries or you didn't do so with conscious thought, so you won't be charged with anything. If you however overstep the boundaries willingly you'll be charged with the crimes you commit once you overstep the boundaries, that doesn't mean that the self-defense was invalid.
I can of course only speak for the German law system but I guess that it should atleast be similar in the US. But no gurantees there. The whole subject is of course open to interpretation whether the guy really oversteped his selfdefense restrictions and I doubt that engageing in such a discussion would do much to the actual question.
Quote:
This is my property, health, and possibly life that we're talking about
That's not neccesarily the point. The point is whether you applied the adequate meassure of defense against the attack against you. It would for example be unjustified to give someone a headshot if he wants to assault you when you could just aswell shot him in the leg. If a headshot however would be the only possible way of protecting yourself you'd be justified. It's a bit more complicated than that but you get the idea I hope.
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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blizzardboy
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posted February 21, 2010 11:51 PM |
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There's no 100% perfect way to objectively measure it, hence the whole point of having court cases, but a defender can't always easily discern when the danger is neutralized, especially in the heat of the moment. If I punch my attacker in the face and he goes to the ground, I don't have the slightest idea if he's done fighting, and it's doubtful I'd stand there waiting to find out. I'd immediately proceed to kick him, ideally in the balls.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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DagothGares
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No gods or kings
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posted February 21, 2010 11:52 PM |
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Yeah, he better have no kids to take revenge on you later on!
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If you have any more questions, go to Dagoth Cares.
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blizzardboy
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posted February 21, 2010 11:54 PM |
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It's an easy way to get him to stop fighting, hence it's logical take advantage of it. Again: this isn't a sport match. Besides, it's very doubtful I'd render him infertile. I mean sure it's always possible, but it's also possible for me somehow end up killing him if I punch him in the face.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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Azagal
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posted February 21, 2010 11:55 PM |
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As I said Blizz you may very well be right in what you're saying and more importantly you may be legally justified (may being the key word). It's all up to the circumstances, I merely wanted to give the legal outlines since there seemed to be confusion .
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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Elodin
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posted February 22, 2010 01:14 PM |
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Edited by Elodin at 13:15, 22 Feb 2010.
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I think the black guy was a young punk who thought the older guy was an easy target. The bearded guy moved to the front of the bus to try to avoid the confrontation and kicked his butt when it couldn't be avoided. Maybe the punk will think twice next time.
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Azagal
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posted February 22, 2010 01:19 PM |
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Edited by Azagal at 13:20, 22 Feb 2010.
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And it was written...
thou shall striketh the wicked punk with rigtheous fury for the lamb must not tolerate the unfaithfuls violence. Thou shalt not suffer the punk!
EDIT: Suddenly your custom status get's a whole new meaning Elodin... interesting.
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted February 22, 2010 03:04 PM |
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Holy ******* ****!!! I agree with Elodin!!!! 
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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JoonasTo
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted February 22, 2010 04:46 PM |
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mvassilev
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posted February 22, 2010 05:11 PM |
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Quote:
EDIT: Suddenly your custom status get's a whole new meaning Elodin... interesting.
Mind = blown.
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Eccentric Opinion
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Elodin
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Free Thinker
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posted February 22, 2010 08:01 PM |
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Quote:
Holy ******* ****!!! I agree with Elodin!!!!
Scary, isn't it?!?!?!
Here is a song that fits the video perfectly.
Attitude Adjustment
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Revelation
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xerox
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Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 22, 2010 08:54 PM |
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Edited by xerox at 20:57, 22 Feb 2010.
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I LOVE to discuss these kind of things. It's very interesting since I am interested in rights and law etc.
Both we were wrong.
Sure, the black dude was an ass. The white guy (I know I use black/white, but it's easier to explain then) did actually do the right thing to move away from the black guy, to avoid a fight.
That was COMPLETLY RIGHT. The black guy was an ass to go up and snowslap the white guy.
Now here comes what makes the white guy do something wrong to.
The white dude completly EXAGGERATES. Make him all bloodied and stuff was UNESCESSARY and WRONG.
Now comes the hard part. Should the white guy be charged?
After all, it was the black guy who made him go berserk. According to the law, I guess the white guy should be charged and not the black dude. But who would really benefit from getting charged the most? Who would learn from it the most?
The white guy doesnt seem like a person that fights a lot while the black guy seems like a sterotypical black guy that likes to taunt people etc.
In my opinion, both of them should pay a fine. The white guy should pay a little more just because he made the black guy all bloodied and that was completly unescessary.
But who knows. If the white dude hadnt done anything, then I think it is VERY POSSIBLE that the black guy would have done the exact same thing if the white guy didnt do anything.
If I was in that situation (which I would NEVER be in), then I would have walked off the bus.
I can't stand barbaric, stupid people like that who seem to have 50 IQ and therefor can't come up with a good, logical solution of the problem. This is asuming I was the white guy.
btw what is a sound atheist? xD
He doesn't believe that sound exists? xD
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