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| Thread: Nanny State Update |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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blizzardboy
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posted June 04, 2012 09:30 PM |
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I understand what you're saying and I don't agree. I feel like we are splitting hairs here, but psychology and the ingredients themselves all play a role in how alluring something will be. Living in a world that glorifies smoking as being classy & fashionable will make it more addictive, because of the social appeal to it. Thus, addiction was stronger in the 60s than it is now. It's not just the quantity of people addicted, but also the strength of the addiction itself. If you're around people that discourage your habit (probably not actively, but even a passive disapproval will have an impact) then it will continue to nag at the edge of your conscious and make it easier for you to quit. Most people in the world are followers that will deflate under enough pressure.
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JollyJoker
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posted June 04, 2012 10:15 PM |
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If you were right, it would be easy to quit a heroin addiction because basically everyone discourages use, it's illegal, it costs a fortune...
It isn't, though. So that can't play a role
Worse. Relapse quote is HIGH, even and especially after the physical whithdrawal has passed.
Same with smoking, by the way, or every other drug habit, for that matter.
I also don't think that you have any hard date that would support your opinion.
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JoonasTo
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted June 04, 2012 10:18 PM |
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It's not like we have any data from heroine positive society to compare to so he cannot be proven wrong with that.
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blizzardboy
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posted June 04, 2012 10:19 PM |
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People isolate themselves into social circles where their habit isn't discouraged. A crack snow dates a crack fiend, who hangs out with his crack buddies in their crack house. But it is still hard to maintain a habit where it is socially demonized, either from the law or from public opinion itself, or especially both. It's not like a lot of the people that get into hard drugs come from warm and rainbow-filled backgrounds. They're from a Miami slum or something, who grew up wallowing in ****, and then proceed to be looked-down on by a snobby public that has the ignorance & audacity to view themselves inherently better than them.
Besides, in the case of smoking, it's not like it's vilified as is the case with heroine. A smoker can still easily get a respectable job and make friends with non-smokers, but it is all the same much less popular than what it used to be.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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JollyJoker
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posted June 04, 2012 10:43 PM |
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No, dammit.
It doesn't matter whether a society is positive or negative - once you HAVE the habit, it's ALWAYS hard. I mean, negative or not, you GOT the habit. Knowing that it was negative - still you got it.
However, it's clear that less people GET the habit: if, like in the 60s, a society is positive for smoking, more people smoke and consequently GET the habit. Also less people would even TRY to lose it - why would they.
Same thing with FAT, by the way. FAT was NEVER, EVER positive in any western society except in the middle ages or so.
STILL, LOTS of people are FAT - and keep that way.
IF a society tolerates certain habits there is less reason for people to THINK about getting rid of it, but not lesss reason to actually DO get rid of it, because reason - and other people - has nothing to do with it. You CANNOT get rid of a habit because of reason. You may have the willpower to stop following a habit BASED on reason (as in "I will die soon, if I don't stop", for example), but that doesn't make you a non-addict (that's why RELAPSE QUOTE is so important).
It SHOULD be easier to not develop ANY habit nowadays, since so much more is known about negative effects, but if you stop looking to one specific habit, but look at habits in general, it suddenly isn't the case. Sure, smoking gets less, but there are lots of other drugs; plus obesity; gambling; sex; the internet; porn; TV; computer gaming; cell phones ... did I miss something?
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blizzardboy
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posted June 04, 2012 10:51 PM |
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The social environment provides an atmosphere that makes it harder or easier to break an addiction; in other words the addiction is weaker. A person in 2012 that smokes the exact same # of cigarettes per week, with the exact same nicotine content, will be at an advantage compared to their biological clone from 1960. Because the person in 1960 has social appeal that is contributing to their addiction. This social appeal does not exist as much in 2012 unless you displace yourself into select social circles.
This subtopic of the discussion has become a circulating argument, so I'll leave it at that unless something new is added.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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xerox
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posted June 04, 2012 11:12 PM |
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Of course society doesn't make it less addicting. Society does however influece how acceptable smoking is and as such, how many people that are smoking.
Among most people of my age, smoking is pretty much a death sin now. I think it used to be a lot more popular. Alcohol is okay though. =P
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Over himself, over his own
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mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Corribus
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The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted June 05, 2012 03:32 AM |
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Gentlenmen:
You have veered a bit off the thread's topic. I suggest if you wish to take up the topic of addiction and diet, you dedicate a new thread to it or find one already dedicated to it.
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JollyJoker
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posted June 05, 2012 08:48 AM |
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I would still like to know where Blizzard gets the absurd idea that it is easier to get rid of a habit when the habit has less social appeal. As if an addict was interested in social appeal.
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Vindicator
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Right Back Extraordinaire
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posted June 05, 2012 01:55 PM |
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Well, addicts have friends too, you know; it's not like they're loners who spend all their time obsessed with food, or whatever. And I'm pretty sure someone would pick their friends over a habit, no matter how addicting the habit is. (sorry Corribus, I just had to throw that in)
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JollyJoker
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posted June 05, 2012 02:40 PM |
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Quote:
Well, addicts have friends too, you know; it's not like they're loners who spend all their time obsessed with food, or whatever. And I'm pretty sure someone would pick their friends over a habit, no matter how addicting the habit is. (sorry Corribus, I just had to throw that in)
That seems to indicated that your knowledge about habits, addicts and possibly friends and friendship could need a boost.
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted June 05, 2012 04:00 PM |
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I don't know it if is easier to kill a bad habit or an addiction if it is frowned upon by the society, but for sure it makes it more difficult to develop one if for example marketing is restricted or the price is high. Those two tools can be used effectively to combat smoking for example.
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Elodin
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posted June 05, 2012 06:58 PM |
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A bit of hypocrisy on the NY mayor's part:
Clicky
Quote:
New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg doesn't want New Yorkers super-sizing sugary drinks, but employees at the media and financial information company he founded can guzzle all the free soda they want while they work.
Ah, elitists. The rules rules they make never apply to themselves.
This article answers a previous question I asked. Evidently a large percentage of New Yorkers DO think they need the State to tell them what to eat and drink.
Quote:
A recent poll found 53 percent of New Yorkers consider the said proposed ban a big-government overreach, while 42 percent said it would be good health policy, according to a poll released last week.
It is scary when 42% of the people in the city think they NEED a big brother government to run their lives.
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Revelation
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Elodin
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Free Thinker
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posted June 14, 2012 03:23 AM |
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Edited by Elodin at 03:24, 14 Jun 2012.
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Once nanny liberals get their foot in the door they want more, more, more control over the choices people make. Now NYC bureaucrats are setting their sights on popcorn and milkshakes.
Clicky
Quote:
On the heels of Mayor Michael Bloomberg's call for a ban on jumbo-sized sodas and other sugary drinks, city officials are now considering restrictions on treats ranging from popcorn to milkshakes.
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Revelation
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xerox
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posted June 14, 2012 09:52 PM |
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I think its good that some of your politicans are finally doing something about the american obesity.
//Xerox, social liberal.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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JoonasTo
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted June 14, 2012 09:57 PM |
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And I still find it hilarious that people associate control with liberals in america, now can we go back from one liners to actual discussion?
Suppose the ban on big sizes goes through, won't there be more trash and more profit from selling more small ones? 
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GunFred
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posted June 14, 2012 10:32 PM |
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This is starting to get dangerous. The communists in NYC must be stopped before they take complete control. I mean, if americans get healthy. How are europeans supposed to make of them then? Jokes about how their military is a huge national dick compensator?
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OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
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posted June 15, 2012 03:17 AM |
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How are Europeans supposed to do what exactly?
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GunFred
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posted June 15, 2012 06:48 AM |
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Make fun of them. Sorry for forgetting the fun.
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bixie
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my common sense is tingling!
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posted June 15, 2012 09:58 AM |
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Gunfred, I think comics will have plenty to rib america on if this is the average state of world knowledge...
justkiddingiloveamericaplzdon'tnukeme!
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