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| Thread: the HC's necessary religion thread |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · NEXT» |
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted April 14, 2010 09:35 PM |
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Edited by bixie at 22:29, 14 Apr 2010.
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the HC's necessary religion thread
since no-one else intends to make this thread, I suppose I will have to.
and Yes, it is necessary to discuss religion. It's as Necessary as testing and retesting scientific theory, It is human to err and have doubts about their beliefs, and continually question them. And so, I propose a number of questions, to everyone in the HC, and ask them to only follow a very small number of... I'm hesitant to say rules, but basically, rules. Those who don't comply with them must admit to where they are wrong, and failure to do so will recieve a "strongly worded" retort from me, and whilst the retort will be in HC CoC, it will not be a pretty sight.
Rule 1: If a question is asked of you, then you must answer it. If you do not and are called up on it, then you must answer, along with an apology to the questioner.
Rule 2: If you make a statement, then you must back it up with evidence. this does not need to, necessarily, be linked, but it is preferable is the source is online, and simply spouting verses from a holy book does not cut it. If you are using holy text, reference how it affects you're oppinion, rather than stating as fact. And the "Isn't it obvious" cop out will not work.
Rule 3: Simple dismissal is not acceptable. it doesn't progress the debate if someone simply says "Oh, that's wrong" and doesn't give reasons. This is similar to Rule 2, in that respect.
Rule 4: There is no good and evil side. one side is not righteous and the other side villianous. We must remember that was talk about organisations, events, people and oppinions, we do not attack the faith directly. Atheism is no more evil than Christianity, or Islam, or Judaism, or Hinduism, or Paganism, or Animaism. They are all equal in this forum, and no-one is going to get preferential treatment over another.
Rule 5: If some-one does not follow these rules, some-one point out where they are wrong, refer them back to hear, ask for an apology, and if all else fails, call a moderator. I don't want this thread locked due to people whining and moaning about something or other, it kills everyones high. just becuase you went down first, doesn't mean you have to kill everyone elses high.
Rule 6: humour is appreciated. not to dominate or to be final like the others, but it lightens to tone and makes it seem a little less dreary.
(best doctor frankenfurter impression)
Now my lovely ladies, my handsome gents, and my saucy transexuals, here are the questions to start off this debate, you naughty, naughty lot!
1) how do you let Religion affect your day to day life. friends, work, family, etc, etc.
2) How did you choose you're religion, and if you didn't, are there any others that you admire or respect?
3) How does religion affect you're oppinions, politics, and social ideals?
4) How do you think you're religion has contributed towards getting society where it is today?
5) what do you think we did before religion?
6) where would you place your religion?
7)What is your current religion?
8) what is your definition of religion? not using wikipedia or googling it, your own words to decribe it, please.
(best ozzy osborne impression)
A'right, so have F**king great debate!
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Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted April 14, 2010 09:40 PM |
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The funny thing is that you could easily get a relatively civilized religion thread through the use of a single rule.
Rule #1: No quoting. Period.
Insofar as I don't see such a rule in your thread, I'll probably be sitting this one out.
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted April 14, 2010 09:42 PM |
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I'm proposing that you can quote, but you have to back up why you have used it and how that fits in with you're argument.
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Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
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william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted April 14, 2010 09:43 PM |
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Edited by william at 21:57, 14 Apr 2010.
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First off, I don't think this thread should've been made again but whatever. Now onto the questions:
1) I don't let religion affect my life. I like to make decisions based upon what I think is the right thing to do. I see no sense in basing everyday decisions upon religion or the bible or any of that stuff. If what I do turns out to be a mistake then I'm to blame and I'll learn from that.
2) I was raised as a Christian but I'd say I'm an Atheist now. About a year or two ago I was Agnostic, questioning whether God exists or not, but now I don't even care and I see no sense in trying to figure out whether God exists or not, I'm just going to live my life and enjoy it.
3) Religion doesn't affect my politics, opinions or social ideals. I don't actually care about Politics anyway, but for the other two, I don't let Religion affect it. I'd like to keep Religion out of my life as much as possible because I just don't let it influence the way I think and do things.
4) My honest opinion, I think it's made it a worse place.
5) I don't know, but I'm sure that people were more normal.
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~Ticking away the moments that
make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
way~
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted April 14, 2010 09:47 PM |
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Quote:
The funny thing is that you could easily get a relatively civilized religion thread through the use of a single rule.
Rule #1: No quoting. Period.
Insofar as I don't see such a rule in your thread, I'll probably be sitting this one out.
Check my opening post in the recently closed religion thread 
I kindly asked not to quote.
Didn't work 
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Shares
Supreme Hero
I am. Thusly I am.
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posted April 14, 2010 09:55 PM |
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Edited by Shares at 21:57, 14 Apr 2010.
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Quote:
1) how do you let Religion affect your day to day life. friends, work, family, etc, etc.
2) How did you choose you're religion, and if you didn't, are there any others that you admire or respect?
3) How does religion affect you're oppinions, politics, and social ideals?
4) How do you think you're religion has contributed towards getting society where it is today?
5) what do you think we did before religion?
(best ozzy osborne impression)
1) I don't really. I don't my religion effect my ethical and moral opinions. Why? Because I don't believe in absolute moral. That means that no scripture can tell me what is right or wrong(not even laws). That doesn't that I'm not a moral person, because I have strong morals and try to follow them.
2)Well, I have put a lot of thought to it, and the events of my life have led me to the conclusion that some kind of power do exist, however, until I know more of this power I won't take an absolute standpoint in religion. If you would ask me, I guess I'd answer that I am doubtfully placing myself somewhere between Christianity and Satanism(and unless you don't know what that means, I'll ask you to please shut the **** up!).
3)It don't. Not to any noticable (to me) extent anyway.
4)Well, I think religion is good for people. It strengthens their morals. They get a motivation and a goal. If I could say that my goal in life would be to get to heaven when I die by follow a specific set of rules, that would really give structure and certanity in my life. However, the organisations religion creates are mostly bad. As you said, it was not the religions that started wars and killed people, it was the organisations. Christianity had a strong grip over most of Europe and that's why christianity had the most significant impact on our culture. How the world would look without that impact is uncertain so I can't say that it's good or bad. I guess the only way to see the difference is to look at Asia (Europe conquered every other continent, so they don't really count). By that comparison I think that christianity did more harm than good. A wild, unbacked guess though.
5)Before religion? I have no idea. I think that humans from an early age (of humanity) have worshipped any power bigger than themselves that we doesn't understand. The sun, water, wind, volcanos etc.
EDIT: I'd like to add a question:
6) Where would you place you religion?
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted April 14, 2010 10:00 PM |
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Quote:
6) Where would you place you religion?
I will add that one!
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Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 14, 2010 10:08 PM |
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1. All of my friends at home are religious to some extent, but none extremely so. My friends here at college are mostly atheist, as is my family. So, aside from arguing on the internet and talking about political policy, it doesn't affect me that much.
2. We always had a Bible in the house, but no one read it, and, as a kid, I was always reading science books. Until sixth grade, I thought the very idea of God is ridiculous and that it was something that people only believed in the Middle Ages and was now only for uneducated old people. Then I discovered that actual people believed in God. I still think it's ridiculous, though. Somewhere around the same time, my parents forced me to go to church a few times. It was boring and pointless.
3. Religion plays a role in the political field in the US, unfortunately. But it doesn't personally influence my politics, since I'm not religious.
4. I'm an atheist, so N/A.
5. We were animals.
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Eccentric Opinion
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted April 14, 2010 10:18 PM |
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@Doom
There's a difference between asking people to try not to quote, and outright forbidding it. If I were starting a religion thread, I would kindly ask the mods to delete any post that employed a quotation from an earlier post.
Well here I am already throwing this doomed thread off-topic, LOL.
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted April 14, 2010 10:24 PM |
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Quote:
5. We were animals.
are we not still, technically speaking?
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Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 14, 2010 10:26 PM |
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We are biologically. I mean that we have higher faculties.
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Eccentric Opinion
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Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted April 14, 2010 10:34 PM |
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Edited by Mytical at 23:57, 14 Apr 2010.
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I'll summarize the whole damn thread
Jesus freaks: The bible said so
Anti religion freaks: Take you bible and shove it up your ***
Is there anything else left to be said?
*shakes head*
Edited out a few things, please keep it civil.
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted April 14, 2010 10:41 PM |
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the reasons why are up at the top.
and if what you describe happens, you get a cookie.
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Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted April 14, 2010 11:05 PM |
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First of all: I dislike Rule 2. Religion is (at least also) about belief, and belief is an inner thing. For that reason, I hope you don'T midn if I say: "it's what I feel inside of me". Such things, of course, are exactly taht: inner feelings and opinions, nothing objective, nothing to confess anyone! But tlaking about such things, without talking about feelings, which, as I mentioned, cannot be "backed up with evidence". I hope you trust that I won't lie to you here and, for the most suspicious ones: I don't even have a reason to do so...
Second: COudl you please define what you mean, when you say "religion"? Else the questions are hard to answer, though I'll give a try anyways
1) how do you let Religion affect your day to day life. friends, work, family, etc, etc.
...depends. I'm not part of a common religion, nor truly atheistic. Still, Ilet my beliefs affect my actions, where I manage to.
2) How did you choose you're religion, and if you didn't, are there any others that you admire or respect?
since I'm not aprt of any religous group this again is hard to answer. I think I just choose my "religion"=my way of belief throughout my life...and it is proposed to be a'changing again
3) How does religion affect you're oppinions, politics, and social ideals?
My belief does so, highly.
4) How do you think you're religion has contributed towards getting society where it is today?
sorry, I can't answer that before you answered my question, really
5) what do you think we did before religion?
I don't know wether there was such a period.
6) where would you place your religion?
What do you mean by that?
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted April 14, 2010 11:13 PM |
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Veco, Bina..please edit your posts now. Lets try to keep this civil.
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Message received.
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted April 14, 2010 11:17 PM |
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personally, I define religion as a series of organised beliefs, as in they are not personal, but in a group. A non-singular sharing of beliefs in a spiritual nature.
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Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
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ohforfsake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted April 14, 2010 11:34 PM |
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@Bixie
So is any kind of discussion, as long as it is intended on the subject of religion, acceptable bixie?
1) Religion usually don't have any impact on my life, except when I write in religion threads.
2) For the matter of how I came to the religion I once had, well, depends on how religion exactly is to be defined. The way I understand religion* I choose mine out of fear and went away from it again when I realised I only followed it because of fear and others told me to.
3) To my knowledge, religion does not affect me generally, though I've certainly been inspired by some parts of the bible.
4) I imagine, like what I think JJ once wrote, that religion was a great tool in the early stone age times, etc., because it gave a reason for cooperation in stead of everyone were themself closest. At a time were it was more about surviving and not as much about technologic progress, I suppose those who decided to follow the words of religion had a better chance. Not because of the specific religion, but because it gave people something that made them team up better, I suppose.
My conclusion on that matter is:
Religion probably used to be a great contributer to society.
5) By your fifth question of what we did before religion, do you mean before religion even existed? I honestly think that religion have always existed, even among animals, I'd guess, but if there was a before time, then I suppose it'd be back when we lived like monkeys. So eat, sleep and sex.
6) After Shares explanation of the meaning of that question, I'd characterize myself as agnostic.
8) *On the matter of defining religion. To me a religous belief, is a belief that either cannot be tested, or when tested and made sufficient likely to be incorrect, is still believed upon on a matter of irrational faith.
An example of what I'd call a religion, are those who believe in string theory, though I'm on thin ice on that one, because I haven't taken myself into the matter as well, so it's completely out of what I've heard, which would make my suggestion rather irrational as well to some degree. But assuming what I heard is correct, at least, then comparing the bible, to string theory, the bible have lots of postulates, some can be proved wrong, but those are not what should be interesting here, those that however cannot be proved wrong/right, due to lack of technology and solely are based upon faith to believe in, well that's the same way I understand it is with string theory, as so far the theory, to my understanding, have failed to deliver any kind of testability.
In conclusion, it also mean, what's religion to some, might not be to others, however I've no problem in the definition being subjective to the degree of what one would consider a justified information.
An example of this, some might say "I can feel God, ergo God exists", to me, that's not justified, because I'd challenge what it's to feel and how to know for certain it's God. For someone else, it might be enough. After all, for them it's a type of measurement.
Bixie wrote:
Quote:
A'right, so have F**king great debate!
For JJ's sake, let's call it a discussion, so it's no war for audience approval, please.
PS: What's wrong with quoting? It's okay if someone dislikes it, of course, but at least give a reason to the rule, otherwise it's not much different than the example of the previous thread with the child and the frying pan. [You may not touch it (no why), contra: You may not touch it, because it's hot and can injure your hand, which hurts a lot (atleast somewhat of a reason)]
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Living time backwards
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted April 14, 2010 11:37 PM |
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ok for that: I'm not member of any religion, I don't feel belonging to a group of shared beliefs, not even the atheistic ones. So my changed answers:
1) how do you let Religion affect your day to day life. friends, work, family, etc, etc.
I only let religion affect my daily life where it's a religion of someone I like or love, or respect, or have to accept, and where it's implemented in society.
2) How did you choose you're religion, and if you didn't, are there any others that you admire or respect?
^^I did not "choose" not to be in a religion really, it just happened.
3) How does religion affect you're oppinions, politics, and social ideals?
some way or other, but not really. I mean, it affects me opinions etc. so far, I have opinions about religion and what is done in relgions' names, for instance. Also, it affects my opinions indirectly, because it probably had an influence on how the society developed and how my parents developed and so on my opinions, ideals, etc.
4) How do you think you're religion has contributed towards getting society where it is today?
...keeping it open 
6) where would you place your religion?
I repeat my question: What do you mean by this question?
Did
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Shares
Supreme Hero
I am. Thusly I am.
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posted April 14, 2010 11:40 PM |
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With my question I'm just asking you to brand yourself. Would you call yourself a Christian Protestant, Catholic, Jew, Atheist, Agnostic, whatever etc. It will not add much to the actual discussion, rather the opposite by removing parts of it where people ask questions about your belief. If you can say that you're a christian, then we can skip the simple, but necessary, questions. Like: "Do you believe that Jesus was the son of god?"
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted April 14, 2010 11:54 PM |
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The closest religion I have found is Unitarian. I believe all religions have a little of it right, but not all of it right.
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Message received.
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