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| Thread: if you could live forever |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Warmonger
Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
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posted April 28, 2010 03:11 PM |
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There's quite a lot of things I would like to do and would take another activities if there was no time limit. So yes, plese.
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The future of Heroes 3 is here!
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ohforfsake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted April 28, 2010 03:13 PM |
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I don't think I could ever feel accomplished. As long as some I love and care for still exists I'd still want to exist, and vice versa I believe.
Edit:
@Shares [to reply below] I really liked your first bit and completely agreed with it, so I saw no reason to comment on it, it's very nicely put.
I just thought I'd state my opinion on the last bit.
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Living time backwards
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Shares
Supreme Hero
I am. Thusly I am.
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posted April 28, 2010 03:20 PM |
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Then so be it. That's why I put an if there!
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted April 28, 2010 03:51 PM |
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@Bixie
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Utter trite. you, like many other, want to feel special and garunteed a place next to you're big daddy when you die.
I said that I disagree that we are all afraid of death and that I am not and that fear of death is not why I "subscribe" to religion.
And now you claim that I am lying about my own feelings and reasons for following my religion. Please retract your statments as they are false.
Furthur, you claim that my beliefs are just a fairy tale. You certainly are entitled to be wrong but I request that you offer proof of your claim that my beliefs are only a fairy tale.
Also, your statment that both my belifs and Hindu beliefs are both impossible. Prove that my beliefs are impossible.
You also stated that my beliefs are only there to comfort me. Prove it.
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the brutal reality that science, so far, has concluded (open to change if we get some alternative, testable, demonstratable proof from anyone other than hysterics) is that there is no afterlife, and when we die, our brains switch off and that's it.
Show me experiments that have demonstrated that human spirits do not survive the death of the body.
You are certainly free to believe that humans cease to exist when the body dies, but there is no proof that that is so.
Likewise, you claim that all forms of immortality would be "a nightmare." Again, only your opinion. I certinly don't see living forever with people I love in a world not subject to death or decay as being a nightmare.
You claim that finality gives us urgency and the reason to really live and enjoy life. Yet from what I have observed a person who holds a view of life as ending with a person ceasing to exist often becomes a nihilist.
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Revelation
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ihor
Supreme Hero
Accidental Hero
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posted April 28, 2010 03:54 PM |
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I agree with Elodin here.
Science didn't prove there is no afterlife.
Actually there is only one method to prove that there is or isn't afterlife - to die.
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ohforfsake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted April 28, 2010 04:08 PM |
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I agree as well, the method of science (I don't think science is a belief system, it's a method to check your beliefs, then if you accept the method is of course up to you), have not been able as of yet to determine what happens after death.
Which means no conclusion from using the method of science can be made.
However, science have not been able to do so, because the way to make the measurements are yet unknown.
I don't think, the only way, is to die, I believe it's possible for a 3rd perspective observer to actually make the relevant measures, but before that can be done, we must first be able to find out what defines us in the first place.
That is, asking "what happens after death", while you don't know what truely defines you, have very little meaning. [Tried to find an analogy, but I couldn't. Basicly it just says you must know what you're talking about, before you can answer questions about it].
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Living time backwards
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted April 28, 2010 04:36 PM |
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Quote:
@Bixie
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Utter trite. you, like many other, want to feel special and garunteed a place next to you're big daddy when you die.
I said that I disagree that we are all afraid of death and that I am not and that fear of death is not why I "subscribe" to religion.
And now you claim that I am lying about my own feelings and reasons for following my religion. Please retract your statments as they are false.
Furthur, you claim that my beliefs are just a fairy tale. You certainly are entitled to be wrong but I request that you offer proof of your claim that my beliefs are only a fairy tale.
Also, your statment that both my belifs and Hindu beliefs are both impossible. Prove that my beliefs are impossible.
You also stated that my beliefs are only there to comfort me. Prove it.
Elodin... I will not. because I am not wrong, You're entire bases for believe, you're entire faith and religion is based upon the fact that a primitive tribe in Isreal where afraid what happens after they died. And thus, they rationallised, after seeing a volcanic eruption, that there must be a god, who will be there in an afterlife, to welcome them as friends for following a creed they pulled out of they're Arses.
You believe the words that were spread about by these tribesmen, about how a flood covered the entire world, how a woman was turned into a pillar of salt. how a jewish zombie who is his father and also himself, but seperate and different from his father, who is all of creation, died for our sins, but only if we believe in him.
If the zombie was called bill... Would you worship him?
come to think of it, why the hell do you decide to use the instrument of Jesus's death as the symbol of you're religion, that smacks at a little tasteless? if someone died a martyr by having his head caved in by a hammer, and someone started a religion where the holy symbol was the hammer, don't you think that's a bit tasteless?
did I not also say that they were possible, right and wrong at the same time? you know why? BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW! there is no way to tell what happens in the afterlife. It is the most non-reversable of non-reversable experiments. try and contact the dead and you will find it is impossible. Anyone who claims they can is a cold-hearted, money-grabbing, cruel fraud, praying on the weak and the greiving!
and which is better, Elodin. to understand that there is nothing after death, our brain switch off, or you go to a paradise if you follow a certain set of rules. Which would you choose, and more to the point, which have you chosen!!
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the brutal reality that science, so far, has concluded (open to change if we get some alternative, testable, demonstratable proof from anyone other than hysterics) is that there is no afterlife, and when we die, our brains switch off and that's it.
Show me experiments that have demonstrated that human spirits do not survive the death of the body.
Show me a human experiment that proves that human beings have a spirit!
the james randi trust will have alot to say about that.
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You are certainly free to believe that humans cease to exist when the body dies, but there is no proof that that is so.
there is no proof to the contrary. There is no demonstratable cases for souls, spirits, inner beings, or whatever. not one experiment has ever been successful in this feild. Spiritual death or spiritual immortality is a falicy because it does not exist.
show me one case, Elodin, where an experiment prooves the the human spirit exists outside of the body.
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Likewise, you claim that all forms of immortality would be "a nightmare." Again, only your opinion. I certinly don't see living forever with people I love in a world not subject to death or decay as being a nightmare.
Are you s**tting me?!
Ok, lets phrase this again.
You are the only one with immortality. no-one else. not a single thing.
still think it's all sunshine and roses, mate? you have got until the end of Time itself as an immortal being.
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You claim that finality gives us urgency and the reason to really live and enjoy life. Yet from what I have observed a person who holds a view of life as ending with a person ceasing to exist often becomes a nihilist.
That's where we differ!
obviously you don't enjoy the one life you've got! to conclude that a person who is rational is Nihilist is a massive mistake.
If you had one chance, Elodin, would you spend you're time hoping you have a good time in the next one, or seize the moments you have now?
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Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
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phoenixreborn
Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
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posted April 28, 2010 06:08 PM |
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This isn't a realistic scenario even in the future. Why should anyone waste time considering it?
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Bask in the light of my glorious shining unicorn.
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ohforfsake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted April 28, 2010 07:10 PM |
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The future, as in all time after this point of time, is very very much time. I wonder, how can you tell what's realistic and not in this aspect?
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Living time backwards
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phoenixreborn
Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
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posted April 28, 2010 09:38 PM |
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No kidding really? It is more likely that the Earth will be destroyed before humans extend life indefinitely.
This topic is like devoting resources to space travel instead of feeding people.
Even if it could be done people are still being born. In fact such a thing would destroy the earth with plagues and overcrowding and famine.
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Bask in the light of my glorious shining unicorn.
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ohforfsake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted April 28, 2010 09:55 PM |
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How do you evaluate what is more likely? I just don't see it.
People being born are by no means equivalent to eternal life being a bad thing. Of course it'd require sufficient ressources and correct use through technology, but what wouldn't?
Anyway, I don't think the intention of this topic is the matter if one could life forever or not, I think that's more what this topics talks about:
http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=31046
I think this topic is about: Would you want immortality, if you could get it, and reasons behind that.
I think reasons such as overpopulations would be valid, though not very thought through, if that was what you meant, sorry for misunderstanding, I thought/think you're talking about if the scenario is even realistic (which I can't see why it should not be).
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Living time backwards
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted April 28, 2010 10:34 PM |
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I will undoubtedly repeat what some of you said, but as I try to put things in my own words I just can't help it.
I personally see almost no reason to live forever, whether as a cyborg or a fully functioning human being. The way I see, what makes our lives interesting are the goals we set for ourselves. Not the mini-goals such as I'll get an A+ on the next exam, or I'll get married by the time I'm 30 or something, but the ultimate goals that we strive for all our lives. Whether it's the far-fetched goal with close to no chance to achieving, like becoming the richest person on the planet, or a more down-to-earth goals that require our constant attention, like leaving a legacy by raising your children and grandchildren into great people, or whether it's something that seems to have no goal at all, like living the moment and enjoying life as long as it lasts.
Whatever the case is, I believe that immortality deprives us of those goals and/or of the excitement to try and reach them in most cases. An immortal man would not hurry to become the richest in the world since he doesn't have a deadline (pun not intended) and therefore won't be as thrilled as he slowly climbs towards that goal. If you live forever there's no need to leave a legacy, since you yourself aren't going anywhere. And of course, there is no point of living the moment if that moment is endless.
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While writing all that I came to conclusion that there's an important "set" of goals that does benefit greatly from immortality - the goals that require constant work, regardless (or almost regardless) of other circumstances, like scientists who research a certain field or humanitarians helping the sick children in third world countries.
So I guess my ultimate conclusion is that the choice is very much personal and cannot be generalized, as it is based on the goals and personalities of the human in question.
Me? I like life just as it is - short and exciting, so there's no way I'd go for immortality. But then again, I'm just a young guy in my early twenties, what do I know about life.
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 28, 2010 10:51 PM |
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I have absolutely no problem with living forever. Technology will continue to improve, so someday I would get my senses back. Immortality would be cool.
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Eccentric Opinion
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ohforfsake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted April 28, 2010 10:51 PM |
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I think we think much alike about goals, as I see it some goals are actually eternal
I like to seperate goals in 3 ways, very similiar to the ways you seperated your examples:
Goals where the result is important, but the result is not eternal (such as, achieving something, that's not something one can dwell on forever)
Goals were the result is important, and the result is eternal (such as to do actions, in principle it can be all from computer games to love)
Finally goals were the result doesn't matter and only the way to the result is what is important, which in general are our emotional satisfaction.
All our goals are a combination of those 3, I think. (I think I worded it a lot better some months ago, seperating it to wants and lusts, but nvm. that now).
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Living time backwards
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted April 29, 2010 01:04 AM |
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Edited by Elodin at 01:07, 29 Apr 2010.
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@Bixie
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Elodin... I will not. because I am not wrong
You lied about what I want, feel, believe, and why I "follow" my religion. And made a number of other false statments.
You also amazingly claim to know how the "tribesmen" came up wtih the Bible. Are you clcaiming to be:
1) psychic, 2) many thousands of years old, or 3) God?
You also seem to lack an understanding of the resurrection account of Jesus as you call him a zombie. and I've never heard anyone say Jesus is all of creation.
The cross is the symbol of Christianity becasue the mission of Jesus was to die for our sins and that was the instrument of his death.
Yes. you did claim things can be both possilbe and impossible at the same time. However, it is impossible for something to be both possilbe and impossible at the same time.
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try and contact the dead and you will find it is impossible. Anyone who claims they can is a cold-hearted, money-grabbing, cruel fraud, praying on the weak and the greiving!
I've never claimed to be able to contact the dead. However, I would like you to prove that it can't be done.
You asked me which is better, to "understand" that ther is nothing after death or that there is paradise for those who followed a certain set of rules. Paradise for those who behaved properly of course.
I'm out of quotes as the limit set by Angelitto is 2 quotes per response to a post. So I'll have to continue to paraphrase.
You claimed that science had concluded that there is no life after death. I asked for you to show the experiments that demonstrated that there is no life after death. Of course you could not because there are no such experiments. It was just one more of your false statments.
You asked me to show scientific evidence of spirits after you were unable to back up your false claim. Yet I did not make that claim that science proves the existence of spirits. Indeed, I have previously stated that science is unable to detect spirits.
You made that statement that both spiritual death and spiritual immortality is a fallacy because they don't exist. Yet you offered no evidence for your claim.
Yes, imortality, even if it were only me with it, would be a good thing. People go on in life when they experience tragedy like the loss of loved ones and still have an enjoyable life.
You claim that I don't enjoy my life. That is a lie.
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted April 29, 2010 06:58 AM |
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I wonder if they'd let me be hooked up to a mech warrior instead of the standard cyborg implants. That would really spice up the deal.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted April 29, 2010 09:30 AM |
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Quote:
@Bixie
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Elodin... I will not. because I am not wrong
You lied about what I want, feel, believe, and why I "follow" my religion. And made a number of other false statments.
they are not lies, they are statements. Prove to me that you didn't join pentecostals because in some way you were worried about death.
Pentecostals, on average, have a tendency to talk about how hell is a nasty place, quite alot, using fear tactics and so on. Maybe you're pastor doesn't do this, all the information you have given is that you were a pentecostal.
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You also amazingly claim to know how the "tribesmen" came up wtih the Bible. Are you clcaiming to be:
1) psychic, 2) many thousands of years old,
Psychics are frauds, plain and simple, and no-one has lived to even 200, let alone many thousands. Quote:
or 3) God?
that's my cover blown.
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You also seem to lack an understanding of the resurrection account of Jesus as you call him a zombie. and I've never heard anyone say Jesus is all of creation.
Coming back from the dead, after brain death, means the man is a zombie. Unless, of course, he was just in a coma, in which case he was not ressurrected.
Do you or do you not believe that Jesus is god in the flesh? do you, or do you not believe, that god created the universe by making the big bang?
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The cross is the symbol of Christianity becasue the mission of Jesus was to die for our sins and that was the instrument of his death.
Well that's a bloody stupid mission!
what about all the stuff he said about loving you're neighbour, protecting the weak, and not picking on dwarves because they're small? what was that, filler? if his whole mission was to die for our sins, why didn't he jump of a cliff when he was 3?
and as I say, I personally think it's poor taste to have the symbol of the religion jesus started as the instrument of his death. It's like going to the Crufts dog show in a coat made from border collies, or the funeral of a man who died due to a knife wound and present the widow with a carving knife.
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Yes. you did claim things can be both possilbe and impossible at the same time. However, it is impossible for something to be both possilbe and impossible at the same time.
schrodinger's cat
Schrodinger put a cat inside a box and concluded that because the cat couldn't be observed, it would be unclear whether the cat was alive or dead inside the box until you open it. the cat was assumed to be in conflicting states due to the fact it was both dead and alive at the same time, which was impossible, but also possible due to the state that it was in.
thus something that is impossible and possible at the same time is both impossible and possible. point proven.
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try and contact the dead and you will find it is impossible. Anyone who claims they can is a cold-hearted, money-grabbing, cruel fraud, praying on the weak and the greiving!
I've never claimed to be able to contact the dead. However, I would like you to prove that it can't be done.
The James randi institute. Look it up, it's got all the proof you need and does it more expertly than I ever could.
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You asked me which is better, to "understand" that ther is nothing after death or that there is paradise for those who followed a certain set of rules. Paradise for those who behaved properly of course.
no, I never said to understand. which is would you prefer, nothing or paradise?
or to put the core of the thread in another way, live for the moment, or live forever?
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I'm out of quotes as the limit set by Angelitto is 2 quotes per response to a post. So I'll have to continue to paraphrase.
Live on the edge, man!
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You claimed that science had concluded that there is no life after death. I asked for you to show the experiments that demonstrated that there is no life after death. Of course you could not because there are no such experiments.
Science has concluded that there is no life after death because there has been no such experiments because it is the process is 1) lethal (well, it needs to be) and 2) irreversable. even if the participant involved in it does find out, he has no way to report back to his colleges. the entire experiment is an impossiblity.
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You asked me to show scientific evidence of spirits after you were unable to back up your false claim. Yet I did not make that claim that science proves the existence of spirits. Indeed, I have previously stated that science is unable to detect spirits.
then if you are a rational, sensible human being... WHY THE F**K DO YOU BELIEVE IN THEM?!!!!!!!!!!!
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You made that statement that both spiritual death and spiritual immortality is a fallacy because they don't exist. Yet you offered no evidence for your claim.
no scientific evidence for spirits. you said it yourself. thus, we can conclude that there is no evidence for spiritual death or spiritual imortality, as there is no evidence for spirits.
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Yes, imortality, even if it were only me with it, would be a good thing. People go on in life when they experience tragedy like the loss of loved ones and still have an enjoyable life.
yeah, some people do. but to be immortal and to remain human, you will have to go through that again and again, and again, and again, and again, and again. for eternity. endless heartbreak, endless bloodshed. endless tears.
a quick survey I did yesterday of 18 random people, from different backgrounds, different ethnicities, different sexes and different religions. and I gave them a choice.
live forever, or live for the moment.
and they all chose to live for the moment.
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Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
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ohforfsake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted April 29, 2010 09:37 AM |
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Bixie wrote:
Quote:
Science has concluded that there is no life after death because there has been no such experiments because it is the process is 1) lethal (well, it needs to be) and 2) irreversable. even if the participant involved in it does find out, he has no way to report back to his colleges. the entire experiment is an impossiblity.
I honestly don't follow the logic in that quote.
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Living time backwards
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Shares
Supreme Hero
I am. Thusly I am.
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posted April 29, 2010 09:42 AM |
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Let's stop discussing this OT stuff, since it is clearly declining the quality of the origanal topic... as well as being a useless discussion because there is no liable science or facts on this subject! There's nothing that points to that we have a soul, and nothing that points against it. Thus it is a matter of person, a matter of belief. If you believe us to be soulless Bixie, then good for you! But please don't point to science. You should know how it feels when some one say stuff to be scientific facts based on their beliefs.
Ohforf: The future starts 2018 (if it's on schedule) so it's just eight years left(eight, long, long years of waiting)! I'm so excited(and bored)!
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ihor
Supreme Hero
Accidental Hero
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posted April 29, 2010 10:17 AM |
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The future starts 2018
You said this second time. I don't get it, what do you mean?
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