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| Thread: if you could live forever |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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mvassilev
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posted May 05, 2010 05:35 PM |
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MVass, man, masturbation isn't everything.
And seriously, you're 18 and don't consider yourself young anymore? 
Ohohohoho!
And yes, 18 is relatively young, but I think Doomforge is referring to 10 and younger, or something like that.
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Father
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posted May 05, 2010 07:18 PM |
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Anyone remember the character from Hellboy 2, Johann Kraus?
I know, I know.. this is a work of fiction. But the character touches on the issues you have brought up here, it is an interesting example of one man's idea of how to prolong life.
Particularly, I like how he could transfer his ectoplasmic form between mechanical bodies. There was an example of this in the movie when he took over one of the Golden Army guards, and then back again to his natural form when that body got distroyed.
& for the record, yep...I would do that too...
In a heart beat... or lack of one 
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Mytical
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Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted May 06, 2010 12:29 AM |
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Hmm, you mention the possibilities 'give up' and 'acceptance' in my book they're much like the same, how about the 'fight it' possibility?
Sometimes there is nothing to fight, or no way to fight the issue. Sure some cancers can be treated by Chemo or medicines, but what was (and is) affecting me has no such treatments. Chemo doesn't affect it (at all) and while there is medicine for the pain and symptoms there have been no drugs made to even slow it down (because it is too rare to be profitable to do so). *shrugs* I've accepted a long time ago, and I keep moving forward.
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ohforfsake
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posted May 06, 2010 12:35 AM |
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I know it sux and I'm not trying to be provocative or anything, I just like to note that there's always something to fight, the problem often is both how to get to the battle ground and how to do the battle.
I try, through observation, to learn about the world, in hope that it can be manipulated in ways not earlier discovered, which can help those in need. That is at least my ambition, vaguely put, my goal.
That's the way I see one can try to fight what others either accept as inevitable or give up against (which I still think is the same thing, sorry.).
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Geny
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted May 06, 2010 03:06 PM |
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Giving up is acknowledging that you are going to die and just sit down and wait.
Accepting acknowledging that you are going to die and keep on living as if nothing happened.
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Fauch
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posted May 07, 2010 08:54 PM |
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Edited by Fauch at 20:58, 07 May 2010.
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Quote:
And seriously, you're 18 and don't consider yourself young anymore?
I'm 22 and feel younger than when I was 14 
people tend to become more and more reasonable when they grow up, but I think it's the contrary for me
would I live forever if I couldn't feel anything anymore? not sure, I would rather be able to do what I want. what is the point of living forever, if like many people, your life is just a succession of frustrations?
and not feeling anything could I at least experience emotions? it might be really boring if I can't feel happiness.
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ohforfsake
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posted May 07, 2010 08:56 PM |
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I think boredom is an emotion as well. So I don't think you'd experience that either.
My opinion is that, that 'anything' beats 'nothing', that just to be existant is always better than not to be existant, no matter what follows with that existance, if it is eternal pain, eternal boredom, or whatever people might fear.
Of course the 'anything' beats 'nothing' cannot be extrapolated into other matters just like that, it's more in the concept of mortality I think it makes good sense.
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Fauch
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posted May 07, 2010 09:02 PM |
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imagine being the witness of the earth and quality of life of most people degrading themselves over the centuries, because people ruling the world can never overcome their egoism? that would suck.
in another hand, the contrary is possible too.
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blizzardboy
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posted May 07, 2010 09:07 PM |
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Why would living in a state of misery be superior to not living?
Miserable people don't usually commit suicide because of the hope that the future will be better, not because they prefer their current state over nothing. Most depressed or grieving people look forward to the time of day when they can lay down and slip into sleep; an imitation of death.
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ohforfsake
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posted May 07, 2010 09:12 PM |
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Because with absolute nothingness, you don't even exist. There's nothing that tells it should be anything like sleep (which I think is often assumed).
Whereas even with eternal pain, you at least exists, there's a 'you'.
Edit: Also I don't mean nothingness, like sitting in a complete darkness with no observations to be made. I mean no observer. I don't think it can be imagined though, because whatever someone imagines, it requires it to be imagined, when imagining it's presented to yourself, thereby including yourself, which is the opposite of what should be imagined.
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blizzardboy
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posted May 07, 2010 09:17 PM |
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That sounds like irrational egotism. Existing is meaningless by itself if you have no happiness or at least feasible hope for happiness.
And sleep is a decent enough parallel with death, though even with sleep you have a minute amount of awareness.
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ohforfsake
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posted May 07, 2010 09:24 PM |
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Anything is meaningless unless you give meaning to it. There's no 'purpose' of existance, except what you choose. We're consciouss beings and decide upon our own wants.
Just to use what you wrote as an example, happiness is also meaningless, unless you decide it's something you want. However what is happiness? Is it not only a state of mind, a type of pleasure? In principle, if you could get it through some kind of stimulation without any 'proper' action, would you not and would you stay in this state of mind for all eternity then?
Some would, some would not.
The problem of using sleep as a parallel is that you don't remember anythin from when you slept, but you don't know if that's because of memory working differently or if you actually were not consciouss at all. For all you know, you could have experienced what's equal to 10 million life times in your last nights sleep, then you woke up and don't remember anything about it.
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blizzardboy
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posted May 07, 2010 09:32 PM |
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Your post is mental masturbation.
Happiness, by definition, is something that you want. The means by which you experience the sensation are irrelevant to the fact that you do experience it. Obviously, it's a state of mind, as with everything else that you feel, ever.
For your second paragraph, you wake up without recalling anything while you were asleep, assuming you don't remember any dreams, thus why it's often used as an example of death. You're complicating a pretty basic and straightforward comparison.
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JollyJoker
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posted May 07, 2010 09:39 PM |
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Just to use what you wrote as an example, happiness is also meaningless, unless you decide it's something you want.
Nonsense.
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ohforfsake
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posted May 07, 2010 09:43 PM |
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Happiness, by definition, is something that you want.
There're things that should be made clear.
There's self defined happiness at which of course everyone is happy as long they get what they want. That's why I am always happy as long as those I love (including myself) are well.
There's also the type of non-choosen happiness, and that's what I thought you were talking about, the emotion.
Quote:
Obviously, it's a state of mind, as with everything else that you feel, ever.
The important difference in this aspect, however, in my opinion, is what's choosen and what's not.
Quote:
For your second paragraph, you wake up without recalling anything while you were asleep, assuming you don't remember any dreams, thus why it's often used as an example of death.
Not really [a good example], in my opinion, because even someone with no memory can still be alive.
@JJ
Maybe you use the term differently?
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Father
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posted May 07, 2010 09:47 PM |
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I think what Ohfor is trying to say in so many words is that "Perception is Reality" and without the perception of what Happiness is to one's self, it is therefor meaningless. Or am I off here?
At face value I would agree with what JJ said, I would think such a comment to be nonsense too, but I will wait for further explanation from you Ohfor
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ohforfsake
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posted May 07, 2010 09:56 PM |
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Well, of course perception is reality, though I think all in all the people in this talk are using the different terms differently.
For me, happiness have always had two meanings. One being a random emotion triggered at random times, due to specific events. The other being whatever one chooses one wants and get that.
So from definition one, happiness is meaningless.
From definition two, happiness is what the definition of what makes meaning of ones life, which I more often state as wants and use happiness as the associated feelings, which always follows when one have what one wants.
I want all those I love to be well, as long as that's true, I'm happy, independent if I'm in pain or whatever. However I don't have the feeling happiness, or maybe some would call it joy?
Edit: Of course what I write is mental masturbation. Everything we write on a forum is a form of mental satisfaction, so that's kinda given.
Why you use the term masturbation and not satisfaction, I don't know.
Edit#2: And to me, it looks like bliz used the term as the non choosen emotion and not the conscious choice, because he wrote that life was meaningless without anything in it [which I see as trigger for happiness], yet life itself can equal happiness.
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Fauch
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posted May 07, 2010 10:06 PM |
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Anything is meaningless unless you give meaning to it. There's no 'purpose' of existance, except what you choose. We're consciouss beings and decide upon our own wants.
actually, many people should care about what they want rather than trying to control other people life.
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Father
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posted May 07, 2010 10:13 PM |
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Well then,
For me happiness isn't meaningless in any sense of the word or any term used with it. Happiness comes from many facets of our lives, be them mental, physical or spiritual. Understanding of that happiness only comes once one understands sadness or misery to greater or lesser degrees. I say that simply because I believe all things have and must have opposition in order to be valid.
I have already stated a couple times in this thread that the answer to the thread's question for me is a resounding YES, and I believe that I would experience a great deal more of both misery and happiness if such a thing were possible and welcome the chance for such an experience. They say that one should be careful what they wish for, and that is certainly true. However, I simply can not fathom the idea of saying no to a chance to have a longer life if it were offered to me. So that's that for me
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ohforfsake
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posted May 07, 2010 10:23 PM |
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Maybe to make my original point more clear:
If you could choose between not existing (there's no 'you' ever) and existing, with all that follows, why ever choose to not exist?
There's no comfort in non existance, because comfort is a feeling and there's no feelings if there's no existence, after all there isn't even a you (The difference of no observations (completely emptiness) and no observator (complete nothingness)).
[Also the idea of sleep to be something peaceful, I believe, is something we first experience upon waking up, not during sleep, after all we don't remember the time when we slept].
To me, and that's a personal opinion of course and a choice, life is not good because of what it can offer, but because of being life in the first place. That is, I don't define the value of my life upon experience, for me, life have infinite value, because the only two options are either alive, or not alive.
Now that's not me saying that a person must be satisfied, or not seek goals. After all, one infinite can be bigger than the other. So of course we seek happiness, here defined as what we want, but that has nothing to do with the value of ones life, unless choosen to be so.
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