|
| Thread: if you could live forever |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 · «PREV / NEXT» |
|
bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
|
posted April 29, 2010 10:38 AM |
|
|
Quote:
Bixie wrote:
Quote:
Science has concluded that there is no life after death because there has been no such experiments because it is the process is 1) lethal (well, it needs to be) and 2) irreversable. even if the participant involved in it does find out, he has no way to report back to his colleges. the entire experiment is an impossiblity.
I honestly don't follow the logic in that quote.
there has been no experiments into discovering the afterlife because there is several slip ups. I should have made it clearer what I was trying to say.
by the way, the person invovled will be known as the nerconaut for obvious reasons.
1) there will be a very small number of scientists who are willing to perform the experiment, as it will involve killing someone or putting someone in a very high risk situation where their life is very likely to be lost.
2) there is no technology avaiable to bring the necronaut back to life to report on the findings they find, because death is a non-reversible experiment. once you kill someone, they don't come back to life, they are dead. thus, whatever the after-life is like, we won't be able to get any information from our necronaut as he has gone to join the choir invisible.
3) there is no evidence beyond the necronaut's experience to back up the claims. there are no afterlife cameras or nextworld recorders to back up the necronaut's claims of what it's like or even if it's there. maybe the necronaut lied as so not to look stupid, as the afterlife is populated by giant talking dildos.
4) even if we are able to bring someone back to life, a whole slue of other complications come into play. health and mental health are the big ones, as the necronaut might suffer terrible complications and damages due to the process.
5) the experiment is non-repeatable for these reasons. I doubt anyone who is not psychopathic will be willing to murder someone for whatever sake, let alone murder two people for the same sake. and for this to become part of scientific theory, it needs to be tested, repeated and observed thousands of times.
____________
Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
|
|
ihor
Supreme Hero
Accidental Hero
|
|
posted April 29, 2010 01:37 PM |
|
|
There's still bad logic here.
Those 1)-5) are all correct but it does not mean from them, that "Science has concluded that there is no life after death".
You say something like this:
There is no life at some adjactent galaxy, because
1)We can't build ships to get there and check.
2)It takes more time to get there than human lifetime.
3)The experiment is expensive and probably will end with death of astronauts.
4)Other correct statements.
But out of these statements we can't say that there is no life at that galaxy. We can only say, that WE CAN NOT CHECK IT.
|
|
Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
|
|
posted April 29, 2010 01:59 PM |
|
Edited by Elodin at 14:04, 29 Apr 2010.
|
@Bixie
Quote:
they are not lies, they are statements. Prove to me that you didn't join pentecostals because in some way you were worried about death.
The fact is you lied about what I feel, believe, and why I "follow" my religion. I have no fear of death. My statment is all the proof I need since you can't know what I feel and what I don't feel. Now, please stop lying about what I feel, believe, and why I am a Christian.
Oh, Pentecostals don't worry about death becasue we know we go to be with God. I doubt you have ever been to a Pentecostal funeral. While there are tears for the temporary parting with the loved one we celebrate God and the fact that they are with the Lord.
Pentecostals don't use fear tactics, contrary to your false statements. Yes, Pentecostal pastors do talk about Hell becasue that is in the Bible. But talking about the truth is not fear tactics.
It is unlikely that you have been in even one Pentecostal service, much less many by many different Pentecostal pastors. The gifts of the Spirit and the love of God and living a holy life are the emphasis of Pentecostals.
Regarding zombies:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/zombie
Quote:
a will-less and speechless human in the West Indies capable only of automatic movement who is held to have died and been supernaturally reanimated
Sorry, that does not match a description of Jesus.
Yes, Jesus is God in the flesh. That does not mean he is "all of creation." He is not the rocks, treees, flowers, ect.
Yes, Jesus did quite a bit of teaching but he never mentioned dwarves. If you read that on an anti-Chrisitan wevbsite the author was either a liar or doing drugs or perhaps mentally ill. If you claim the Bible speaks of dwarves produce the Bible quote that mentions them.
Sorry, you don't have to like the symbol of Christianity. But the self sacrifice of Christ is represented well by the cross.
Sorry, a theroy about Schrodinger's cat doesn't help you. Prove the cat is both alive and dead at the same time.
Sorry, saying "The James randi institute" doesn't cut it. Prove that no one can contact the dead.
You claimed you never said the word "understand" but you did. Since I have reached the 2 quote limit I can only refer you to your post on April 28, 2010 10:36 AM. If one searches that post he will find that you did indeed say "understand." Paradise is preferable to ceasing to exist. Living forever means I can live an infinite number of moments.
You continue to clam science has concluded there is no life after death. Show me the experiments that prove there is no life after death.
Again, you were unable to produce evidence of your claim that neither spiritual death nor spiritual immorality exist.
____________
Revelation
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted April 29, 2010 02:10 PM |
|
|
Tomorrow's task will be to prove if there is a cat in my aikido bag or not. If you succeed feel free to go ahead with the theme of religion but seriously I have to know about the cat first. Cause she must be suffocating if she is in there 
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
|
|
posted April 29, 2010 02:16 PM |
|
|
It only takes 2 pages to start ruining a thread in the OSM...incredible.
Already said in the feedback thread, I will repeat some phrases again:
- Prevent yourself from quoting 10 times (aka = a lot) in one post. It makes your post nearly unreadable.
- Accept the opinion of others, especially if those opinions describe their own feelings and ideologies!
@bixie
Starting a response with "bollocks" isn't quite the best to get a good conversation going, is it?
____________
Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
|
|
bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
|
|
posted April 29, 2010 03:40 PM |
|
|
@Angelito: I'm sorry, but quite frankly, the man talks great blinking buckets of the stuff sometimes.
Quote:
The fact is you lied about what I feel, believe, and why I "follow" my religion. I have no fear of death.
really?
Really really?
so if a train was coming towards you, you'd just stand there?
if you don't fear death, then surely you're not human. Everyone fears death, as it is the great unknown. there is no proof that we are any more likely to go to the christian afterlife (the dilateral organisations of good and evil) that the yoruba one (where we die and join the souls of our ancestors and those of the unborn). to truly not fear death is to be prepare for any outcome, which is a life time acheivement in itself, which I doubt you have done. You have no more certainity that the bible is true than the necronomicon.
in fact, if we were purely going on numbers of books and numbers of incarnations of deities, the Yoruba Religion trumps christainity by a good five ones. the six Yoruba gods had they're incarnations on earth, which were ascended into heaven. they are just a true as jesus, they have they're own religious text to prove it. Admittedly, they are not so vocal about it, Quiet confidence perhaps?
in fact, that statement about pentecostals going to god is a little suspect. such self confidence... How do you know it's true? How do you know that you are the ones going to god? Maybe, when you die, and are in the afterlife, Ganesh was come forward and say "well you were bloody stupid for not beinging in us, now to Manu you go." Maybe you'll be stopped at the gates of heaven by mohammad and be told "Sorry, you're not on the list, bye bye  " complete with emoticon.
and oh yes they F**king do! Hell is about as true as the Elton johns straightness. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpqIUTuWjpYhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFBvyEOwpkU
these videos are from a youtube user called "Loving doubt" a deconverted Pentecostal who has become an atheist. Go and watch some of her videos, they paint a fairly balanced picture, but these are the examples she gives of Pentecostal fear tactics. of course, you probably won't, claiming it's all part of an atheist/ anti-theist conspiracy and how she's lying etc etc.
oh, by the way, if you are a pentecostal, are you compelled to go out and proletise people? could you please stop it?
Quote:
Regarding zombies:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/zombie
Quote:
a will-less and speechless human in the West Indies capable only of automatic movement who is held to have died and been supernaturally reanimated
Sorry, that does not match a description of Jesus.
"who is held to have died and been supernaturally reanimated."
that holds to jesus pretty well, I'd say.
but, if he didn't create those, then he didn't create the world, and if he didn't create the world, then what was the point of genesis, and if there was no point to genesis, why are we naturally sinful, and if we are not naturally sinful why do we need to be saved by god?
and the one time I say something good about Jesus, and you decide "AAARGH, HE SAID SOMETHING FALSE, BRAIN DOES NOT COMPUTE!" wasn't there a story that there was a money lender, and jesus was preaching, and despite the fact that the money lender was very mean, he went to listen, and the crowd turned on him and shunned him. Jesus accepted him and talked to him and he changed his ways? I don't know, it's been a long time since I've heard that story.
To be honest, that is one of the best examples I can think of over why Jesus is simply a good man and not divine in any respect. He simple accepted the man in, not performing any showy miracle, but performed a single act of human kindness, not needing any act of godlyness to do.
What I love about this is that you claim I'm mentally ill for pointing out a story of jesus that is actually a benefit to the man. and now for something completely different:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0kJHQpvgB8&feature=related
All I really have to say aobut the cross is that it's a bit of poor taste on the counterpart of christians for it. the fish symbol used is a bit better, is all I'm saying. Maybe have a loaf of bread, or a glass of wine. I'm just saying that the symbol of his death is both a bit morbid and in poor taste. I doubt he want's to be reminded of his death, It must have been a traumatising experience for him.
also, thousands of people were crucified before him and after him, from rebelious Celtic cheifs to theives. are we going to honour the murderers, thevies and rapists with the symbol of their death as well?
also, crucifixtion lasted about 300 years after jesus's death, so it's not as though it was something to celebrate, like the last one.
and about Schrodingers cat...
*quickly goes to wikipedia*
here [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6dinger's_cat]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6dinger's_cat[/url]
again, doubt you will read it. but the whole point is that you cannot prove that the cat is both dead or alive, so it must be consider dead and alive for the sake of argument until you open the box, thus removing the unknown. It's the same with the afterlife, in that does exist and does not exist at the same time while we are on this mortal coil, and will only be revealed until we lollop off it.
And also
http://www.randi.org/site/
and if you want to be even more specific
http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html
so far, no-one has taken him up on that and won it.
and if indeed I have used understand, and I apologise for that, since you are incapable of doing so.
and about you're answer to the question... That reeks of the kind of smarmy, back-handed comment I would expect from a child, not from an intelligent adult.
and about paradise being preferable... I assume you have been promised that if you are a good christian... comforting, is it?
Prove to me that there is life after death... You know what, you can't! it's one of the great unknowns and the great unknowable!
and finally there is no scientific evidence for spiritual immortality or spiritual death... because there is no evidence for spirits, that you said yourself.
____________
Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted April 29, 2010 03:50 PM |
|
|
Fear and acceptance of death are rather different. Nobody wants to die but some can accept it. As for crucifixion surely you know what it symbolizes, well, besides crucifying people.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
|
|
posted April 29, 2010 03:58 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Fear and acceptance of death are rather different. Nobody wants to die but some can accept it. As for crucifixion surely you know what it symbolizes, well, besides crucifying people.
first, I doubt anyone has not accepted that death is an inevitablity, but to be avoided at all costs.
and what does crucifixion symbolise:
pain
death
and now, christainity.
____________
Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted April 29, 2010 04:08 PM |
|
|
Not at all costs. Besides someone who's experienced hell on earth might actually prefer a release. And no I'm not referring to suicide.
In Christianity the cross reminds Christians of God's act of love in Christ's sacrifice at Calvary—"the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world." The cross also reminds Christians of Jesus' victory over sin and death, since it is believed that through His death and resurrection He conquered death itself. Yadda yadda.
It does have a poetic feel to it. You are deeply moved I can feel it 
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
|
|
posted April 29, 2010 04:22 PM |
|
|
@bixie
Fear of death and the instinct of self-preservation aren't necessarily the same thing.
____________
I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
|
|
bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
|
|
posted April 29, 2010 04:43 PM |
|
|
Elvin... say, hypothetically, you became a preacher, and you had lots of influential people following you. you were good, and just and fair and kind (which you probably are (just get the brown on the nose)). unfortunately, you were cut down in you're prime when you were hit by a trian.
you're followers started to were miniture trains around their neck...
how would you feel.
____________
Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted April 29, 2010 04:59 PM |
|
|
HAHAHA good one   The difference is that I did not sacrifice myself in an act that symbolizes the salvation of humankind. And of course Jesus was supposed to be more than just a preacher. Anyway a symbol's significance is the one that you give them and contrasts tend to carry extra weight. Just saying that I can see why they made it this way.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
|
|
posted April 29, 2010 05:20 PM |
|
|
ok, you got hit by a train protecting a small child... who was deaf... and facing the other way.
____________
Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
|
|
Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
|
|
posted April 29, 2010 06:58 PM |
|
|
Yes, really. I don't fear death. Not fearing death doesn't mean I have a desire to die. Not fearing death does not mean I would stand there and let a train hit me.
You have stated that death is the great unknown, but is is not the great unknown to me. Prove that I can't know what happens after death.
You are entitled to your opinion that the Yoruba gods are just as true as Jesus. However, since Jesus claimed to be the one true God existing as a man it is obvious that your statement can't be true if either Jesus is God or the Yoruba gods are true.
You stated that I can't know the Bible is true. Your statemtent is false. Prove that I can't know the Bible is true. I have the witness of the Spirit of God and my human spirit. I have the fulfilled prophecies of the Bible.
Quote:
and oh yes they F**king do! Hell is about as true as the Elton johns straightness. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpqIUTuWjpYhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFBvyEOwpkU
these videos are from a youtube user called "Loving doubt" a deconverted Pentecostal who has become an atheist.
First, you personally have not been to any/many Pentecostal services so you don't know first hand what is preached and what is not. Therefore your claim that Pentecostals use scare tactics is dubious at best, and I know firsthand that it is false.
Second, I have no proof the person who made the video was ever Pentecostal. Oh, and going to a Pentecostal church does not make you Pentecostal.
Thirdly, I often see vidoes on the internet of people lying about Chrisitians.
Fourth, if she is representing that Pentecostals teach all of what she is saying she is a liar.
I'll just list a few of lies about Pentecostal supposedly teach:
- questioning is sinful
- obeying the pastor is the same as obeying God
- if you don't obey the pastor you don't love God
- without us [this church, I presume] you won't be saved
- if you see problems with our church you are being negative, selfish, sinful and being infuenced by Satan
Sorry, she appears to be just another person lying about Christians.
Quote:
oh, by the way, if you are a pentecostal, are you compelled to go out and proletise people? could you please stop it?
Nobody "compels" me to do anything. I would say you seem to be quite evangelical in sharing your beliefs although you seem to be more focussed on attacking the beliefs of others. At least on the internet. I don't know how you would be speaking if you sat down face to face and talked to someone about religion.
The "will-less and speechless" part does not match Jesus. You continuing to call Jesus a zombie is only provocation.
You claimed that I believe that Jesus "is all of creation." I do not. That is pantheism. God created everthing. God is not everything.
The story about the money changer is not in the Bible. Perhaps you could reference a chapter and verse you are refering to because you seem to be taking bits and pieces of things.
Your claim that I said you are mentally ill is false. Please stop lying about what I say.
The cross graphicly demonstrates the self-sacrifice of Christ. Since you are not a Chrisian I don't understand why you would care what symbol Christians use to represent Christianity. Sure, Jesus is not the only one who was crucified. But he was an innocent man (who is God existing as a man) who sacrificed himself for the sins of the world. Thre cross was a victory over sin and death.
Again, you offer Schrodingers cat to say something can be both possilbe and impossible at the same time. Bur there is no proof the cat is both dead and alive. Prove it.
Sorry, your link to Randi does not prove there is no afterlife. Your claim that science has disproved an afterlife remain false.
Oh, and I made no smarmy, back-handed, childish comments and you did not reference what comment you were refering to.
Your current statment that thre is no scientific evidence for spiritual immortality or spiritual death is different from your originaly satment that spiritual death and spriitual immorality don't exist and are a fallacy. I am glad you have changed your statment.
Anyways, I am about to go out of town for several days so I catch up on questions and comments then.
____________
Revelation
|
|
phoenixreborn
Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
|
|
posted April 29, 2010 07:15 PM |
|
|
You are arguing the egg without the chicken.
I feel that social conditions would never create a situation where it is more profitable to live forever. More money is made from wars and from selling drugs to sick people.
One possible way research would be done on such a topic is if in an extremely wealthy individual made it his or her personal goal and sponsored it but that might not work.
Isn't every vampire novel ever written a warning about the dangers of immortality?
____________
Bask in the light of my glorious shining unicorn.
|
|
Father
|
|
posted April 29, 2010 09:25 PM |
|
|
There is a danger in it!? --gasps-- (checks avatar..oh crap)
It has been a good long while sense I last tried to comment on a thread other than the one I destroyed. Maybe in time, and a good bit of it, I might make a small portion of that ill favored action back up to those I offended. With that being said, I just may need one of those cyborg bodies. Is there a list I can get on? 
Well I read the entire thread up to this point. I think all "sides" have some valid points in support of their oppinions and personal beliefs.
I tend to live by a believe myself that "all things happen for a reason". With that, when the advancement of our lives comes into realitiy I would actually be one that would want to do it. To a point, we all already are. To that end I would like to point out a couple examples of what I refer to:
-- Vaccines and various medicines have extended our natural life expectancies by dozens of years. Many of these advancements have come very recently.
-- Knowledge of neutrition, safety (cars, buildings etc etc) have also extended our life expectancy. What are we up to now, 70-80 years? I know it varies on many factors such as sex, local, race etc..but you probably get the point I'm making by now.
What I mean to prove by those points is simply that we all to a small degree are already doing all that we reasonably can to extend our lives. Even something as simple as a Flu shot or H1N1 can extend our lives beyond what nature maybe would have claimed without us stepping in the way.
Human beings are capable of so much destruction, so much beauty that it is simply terrifying. We are an immaculate collection of beings that constantly strive for Peace, Power, Freedom, or any other of our personal goals. In all, we strive to live as comfortably and fulfilling as all possible. Some strictly for ourselves, some for others, some for all.
God, not God? Yes personally I really believe that religion is an institution that was made-up in order to control mass society and avoid chaos. Even with that being said, I also believe in life forms far greater and more powerful than our own meager and humble existance. It is IMO that these life forms have become "God" to a great many peoples and societies over the generations. That whole lot is really for another thread though I guess.
So Bix, in answer to your question I would reply with a resounding YES. I then would look forward to what may come in the days and ages to come, heck I do that already anyway.
I'm 36 and would love the chance to live to 336 or 3336 or any age that human advancements could take me. Either way, I will live in this world, this here, this now, the best way that I can. For that is all I know...& as far as all I hope? Well, for me those borders are non existant and I embrace the opportunity.
In closing I would like to say that I do not believe the death of our bodies is the death of our beings and that we would indeed continue on as our engeries, our conciousness, our selves..or whatever you want to call it. Life, space, everything is just so incredibly awe inspiring and mind bogling for our youthful minds to properly comprehend or debate. It is certainly fun dreaming about it though, and I'm very thankful that modern techknowledgy has allowed me to live this long. In truth, I hope in my lifetime that more advancements will allow me to live even longer (this is open to debate with many many various factors of course.
So Bix, it appears that in large part I agree with you the most. Although having my name in your support might be counted as a negative in many circles here. -lol-
Nice thread though.
____________
Once Bitten,
Twice shy,
Be careful,
This one has sharp teeth.
|
|
Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
|
|
posted April 30, 2010 08:47 AM |
|
|
Guess our brain isn't really suited for eternity.
Boredom, gradual loss of emotions (compare the intensity of what the children feel towards everything to an old, bitter man). I guess we would fall into some sort of catatonic existence after a period of time. Sure, some of us have more capacity for emotion, but that would require a life of serious adventure.
And even that could get old after XXX years.
Unless we could keep the childish/teenish fascinations of everything, the powerful emotions that made the world so hot back then... there's nothing cool in living forever, I'm afraid. Many of us already suffer a burnout of sort... and how old are we, 20? 30? Think what would it be after 300 years. Or 3000. Or whatever.
Without a modification to our brains - immortality is not really welcome.
____________
We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
|
|
mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted April 30, 2010 09:31 AM |
|
|
We'd just have to record our excess memories on an external hard drive, then.
And there's nothing great about being young. I remember being a kid, and anticipating the next game, etc. There was a lot of waiting, and then happiness. But really, my life is a lot better now. I get to have fun every day. And it's quite enjoyable.
____________
Eccentric Opinion
|
|
ohforfsake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
|
|
posted April 30, 2010 10:02 AM |
|
|
@bixie wrote:
Quote:
There is no demonstratable cases for souls, spirits, inner beings, or whatever.
@Shares wrote:
Quote:
There's nothing that points to that we have a soul, and nothing that points against it.
Just something I'd like to point out, without definition of what you mean by souls, spirits, inner beings, etc. it's of course not possible to prove anything, as with lack of knowing what to prove, you've no idea what you're proving.
bixie wrote:
Quote:
there has been no experiments into discovering the afterlife because there is several slip ups.
All the slip up you mention (top of this page) are, like ihor says, nothing that really proves anything. I do however get the understanding from you, that you believe it's an impossibility to ever find out.
I disagree with your reasons [1-5 at the top of the page] of why it should be an impossibility to ever find out. There's no logic, at least not what I can imagine, that can determine if it is impossible to measure the effect of what makes us alive throughout space.
However I'd like to criticize your method of finding out. It's not a sufficient method to simply kill someone and then get them back to life and ask "so what happened?".
The reason is that the way, I think, we relate to time are through memory. No memory and time does not exist. It can be imagined that our memory would be copied, or a new memory risen, in a possible afterlife, however it seems very unlikely that upon ressurection that the memory from afterlife would transfer to our body, thereby making it impossible to remember.
Please note I did not give my opinion on the matter of an afterlife, as it's something we as of yet cannot measure, I find it unreasonable to form an opinion for or against, but I'd never claim it impossible to find out.
Bixie wrote:
Quote:
I doubt anyone has not accepted that death is an inevitablity
Raises hand.
When you accept death as inevitable, it makes no sense to try to hinder it, unless you deicde to let your existance be defined upon what you can get from it and not what you have, which would mean people would start thinking stuff like death is better than pain, etc.
@PhoenixReborn wrote:
Quote:
I feel that social conditions would never create a situation where it is more profitable to live forever.
How did you derive to the conclusion that there'd never, through social conditions, be a situation where it's preferable to live forever?
If you by profitable mean economic wise and not preferable, then what is money worth if you can life forever? You can get whatever you want, if it is posible, as long as you just take the time to get it (and it's probably an accelerated process).
If you refer to that there's no interest in immortality, because there's no profit for the companies, then think about it like this:
The reason we want money is because it gives us the power to get us what we want, with immortality we get the opportunity to get what we want without money.
Finally, many great discoveres were made while looking for something completely else, sometie when someone is studying the brain there's a chance of a marvelous discovery, eventhough no profit is to gain from it, I'd bet most people would like to have their name on "the guy who discovered immortality". And even, if not, who would depry people of the choice by forcing their own moral standards down on them?
PhoenixReborn wrote:
Quote:
Isn't every vampire novel ever written a warning about the dangers of immortality?
How is every campire novel a warning about immortality and what dangers do they derive?
From what I've read, often authors have a given opinion and try to prove it through their story, i.e. moralising, and that's fine, but there' a big problem and that is it is often not logical consistent. At the end, the person in question neglects the "obvious choose" which most would choose, because of some reasoning that's meant to be at a high level, but often it fails completely, I actually haven't seen one time it hasn't failed.
The most used is the "I might be immortal, but I'll live through a life full of mishappiness".
There are 2 reasons this is a very short sighted look on things:
1) Happiness through uncontrolled environmental effects, such as general feelings, can be manipulated as technology advances and in principle, if you're immortal you could really just take a knife and remove that part of the brain if you wanted. Knowing there's no risk involved or it would not be immortality.
2) Happinnes through choice, such as loved ones in trouble, is something that you, through an eternity of research most likely can solve, heck you'd probably even find out how to copy what makes you immortal on to others and likewise be able to restore people from death. After all, if the chance is not 0% at all times, then through eternity, it becomes 100%.
Now there's the thing about vampires, they aren't truely immortal, they die if they don't get blood, they die if they're exposed for the sun, heck garlic and a cross is something they can't stand. What vampires have is that they don't age.
Now would it preferable to be a vampire through medical treatment towards problems? Surely, I'd say, I mean who can take a cross to the heart anyway? So that's not really a minus.
The garlic thing? It's probably just like an allergy, we can life with that.
The sun thing however is not very pleasent, but what is it exactly about the sun that creates the problem which normal light does not? Most likely it's like the disease of the people who can't stand the sun. Can't these people go outside then? They can go outside, they just need to correct protection.
Finally there's the blood thing, which can be solved by producing blood in factories and thereby it'd be nothing else than like the "addiction" we all have towards food.
All in all, already in the modern society, a vampire could actually be just like a person with certain diseases and otherwise would not age, which I think is the better alternative.
@Mvass wrote:
Quote:
We'd just have to record our excess memories on an external hard drive, then.
I understand what you're saying as immortality gained through storing memory on a machine.
If I understand correct, how do you know it's really you and not just a machine that acts like you?
If both you and the machine are "alive" at the same time, would you observe from the machines point of view?
An example of an experiment to find out:
Let both you and the machine have the exact same memory and now seperate the two of you through all connections through senses, which in general will just be called all connections.
Now if both you and the machine truely are the same, by giving the machine some information, you should as well be aware of it, because the information should be generated to the total consciousness that is you. [Note I don't say instantely, like it takes time for us to get the information through senses to our consciousness, the delay would be even greater with a consciousness seperated over a higher area].
If that is not the case, it'd illustrate that you and the machine lives two seperate existances and all that've been copied are the ideas you've generated through information of the past and whatever consciouss decisions you made then.
____________
Living time backwards
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted April 30, 2010 10:20 AM |
|
|
|
Could everyone just speak for themselves, please.
|
| |
|
|
