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| Thread: Castration for hardcore sex offenders? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 · NEXT» |
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blizzardboy
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posted May 12, 2010 06:03 AM |
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Castration for hardcore sex offenders?
For several years I've thought this would be a good idea, and the more I think about it the wiser it sounds. Apparently the Czech Republic actually practices this with some cases, and the results are excellent, however there would likely be a great deal of sentimentalist objection from the public for trying to implement it somewhere else (apart from possible good refutations that I haven't considered).
The problem with sexual offenses is that they have a very high rate of repeat offenses, even with good programs to try to steer them away from it, and we can only speculate on the offenses committed that never get reported. They're frequently more than a mere 'crime of passion'. This makes releasing sex offenders back into the public after serving their time kind of a drag for obvious reasons, but the prospect of sticking them in jail for life is a drain on resources and it sucks to have to lose out on a citizen. For this thread, we'll assume the death penalty isn't an option.
So why not give the thumbs up to chop off their fruity pebbles? (except it would be done in a safe and sanitary manner). In theory, it seems very reasonable that eliminating the sex drive would likely prevent future sexual offenses, and in practice, it's worked for the Czech Republic. You're no longer releasing motivated rapists into the public sphere, nor do you have to waste having them sit in jail forever.
I'm sure the most common argument - an emotional one - would be "It's cruel", but that's silly and I'm not sure how to respond to that other than to say "It works". Besides, 'cruel' is a painstakingly nebulous term to begin with. If the castration is cleanly done, the person isn't going to be tormented; they'll be deprived of potential pleasure, but they won't have any longing for it either.
Perhaps the greatest concern is the potential irreversibility of it, which of course is also one of the major criticisms against the death penalty. If the case comes under review and the sentence is revoked, you're in trouble.
If you read this and are bursting with anger, be gentle and explain why I'm wrong. Unlike most of the OSM, I truly am impressionable on the subject, otherwise I wouldn't bother talking about it.
So what do you guys think?
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mvassilev
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posted May 12, 2010 06:34 AM |
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I have no objections to this on grounds of cruelty, except some cases of sexual offence come from a desire to feel powerful rather than from sexual urges.
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xerox
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posted May 12, 2010 06:36 AM |
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It is cruel and unnescessary. There are other options (socialism). Most often rapes are not done because of sexual desires, but for showing dominance or power.
It would not have any effect anyway. You know there are still dildos etc. And there is a always the risk that an innocent could be castrated and that would not be funny (and that is also one of the big flaws in these "hardcore punishments").
And people change. That is why I think it is so cruel to ruin someones sexlife FOREVER in this case.
I guess we should cut off the hands of those that steal and the legs of those that try to flee from the police.
btw I liked how you used "harcore" - kinky.
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blizzardboy
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posted May 12, 2010 06:39 AM |
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Quote:
I have no objections to this on grounds of cruelty, except some cases of sexual offence come from a desire to feel powerful rather than from sexual urges.
Yes, some rapists get an elation over dominating the other person that is separate from the lust, but I have a hard time believing that it's not about sex at all, though such people might end up being abusive even if they're not longer motivated to rape.
If they don't commit rape again, you spare a person a lot of psychological trauma. Women that get raped can be down and out for years on end.
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Binabik
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posted May 12, 2010 06:42 AM |
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I don't want to address the main question at the moment, but I will say that I would support voluntary castration, possibly in exchange for a lighter sentence or lighter restrictions after release from prison.
And then there is always A Clockwork Orange.
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Kipshasz
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posted May 12, 2010 06:42 AM |
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My goverment voted for chemical castration for pedos. It didn't got through. IMHO physical castration would be much better.
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ihor
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posted May 12, 2010 07:28 AM |
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Another argument against: there are always cases with wrong accusation, but the results of castration are irreclaimable, which could become a fatal change of person's life.
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JollyJoker
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posted May 12, 2010 07:47 AM |
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The physical castration isn't necessary.
The Polish do it chemically which is better, since it won't create any hard feelings with everyone.
And Xerox is right that it doesn't work for those who want to dominate.
You might say, switching off a MISGUIDED sexual desire, that is, a desire for SEX, but with the wrong persons, that is children, will have a high chance to work, since those people will not actually get hermed physically, which may in the future even lead to people realizing their desire and going into treatment voluntarily. A lot of pedos know that their desires are unwanted and harmful, but can't resist them, so switching them off will allow them a normal life which is good.
It won't help of course against the violent types. Still.
So I think the chemical castration the way it is done in Poland is worth a big field test.
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Mytical
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posted May 12, 2010 07:53 AM |
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In some cases, when a rapist is unable to preform..they escallate to killing. Most of the time through stabbing, which takes the place of their penetration. Depending on which statistics you believe this is anywhere from very rare to quite frequent.
Rape does have a sexual element, but yes..more often it is about dominence then sex. So castrating of any kind will not stop most offenders, they will just get their 'thrills' another way. Often a more dangerous way (to them and other people).
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wog_edn
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posted May 12, 2010 08:02 AM |
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I am for chopping some balls, but mostly cause a friend of mine got raped several times. Sure some times treatment might work, but if they have the urges they will probably strike again later on. Sick people can't always be healed. In some cases castration wouldn't even be enough. Like the "Pocket man" in norway, who tricked probably zounds of kinds into touching him and raping some.
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blizzardboy
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posted May 12, 2010 08:42 AM |
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@Xerox:
There's always a slippery slope, but I think there's some key differences between castration on hardcore sex offenders(©) and amputating thieves or fleeing criminals.
Firstly, rape is generally considered more serious than almost every crime, so more extreme measures to prevent it become more worthwhile. Secondly, a castrated person can still go back into society, live, work, and function with daily tasks. Sex is recreation, albeit very highly valued recreation. An amputated person on the other hand (lol) is going to be severely handicapped in their ability to function, and their condition becomes a burden to everybody. Also, on the cruelty issue, a castrated person won't be burning with lust and tormented; they'll be indifferent to sex. An ambulated person, however, will more directly suffer from their limitations.
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Doomforge
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posted May 12, 2010 08:51 AM |
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It doesn't require to have a penis, balls, lust or even a tiny bit of libido to commit a rape.
Thus, this wouldn't really work, I think. This is the reason why it isn't practiced.
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Mytical
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posted May 12, 2010 08:57 AM |
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Quote:
It doesn't require to have a penis, balls, lust or even a tiny bit of libido to commit a rape.
Thus, this wouldn't really work, I think. This is the reason why it isn't practiced.
I agree with this 100%. Also, if given half the option..I would make the punishment for rape a LOT worse then castration.
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blizzardboy
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posted May 12, 2010 08:58 AM |
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@Doomforge:
There's some data of its success, though not from a huge pool unfortunately, but still promising. Here's a snippet from Wiki that I was perusing through earlier that talks about it (it has sources if you're especially curious):
Preventive measure
Chemical or surgical castration has been in practice in many countries as a voluntary option for treatment for people who have broken laws of a sexual nature, allowing them to return to the community from otherwise lengthy detentions[citation needed]. The effectiveness and ethics of this treatment are heavily debated.
A temporary chemical castration has been studied and developed as a preventive measure and punishment for several repeated sex crimes, such as rape or other sexually related violence.[5][6]
Physical castration appears to be highly effective as, historically, it results in a 20-year re-offense rate of less than 2.3% vs. 80% in the untreated control group, according to a large 1963 study involving a total of 1036 sex offenders by the German researcher A. Langelüddeke, among others,[7] much lower than what was otherwise expected. Compare to overall sex offender recidivism rates.
In modern times, the Czech Republic practices surgically castrating convicted sex offenders. According to the reports compiled by Council of Europe, a human-rights forum, the central European country physically castrated at least 94 prisoners in the 10 years up to April 2008. The Czech Republic defends this procedure as voluntary and effective.[8] According to Dr. Martin Hollı, director of the Psychiatric Hospital Bohnice in Prague, none of the nearly 100 sex offenders who had been physically castrated had committed further offenses.[9] One serial offender stated that being castrated was the "best decision" he ever made: "On the one hand you have to protect the potential victims and on the other hand I wanted to be protected from myself, I wanted to live like a normal person."[10] Don Grubin, a professor at Newcastle University's Institute of Neuroscience who also runs a chemical castration program backed by the U.K.'s Ministry of Justice, was initially opposed to physical castration, however, after visiting the Czech Republic, he agreed that form of castration might be of benefit to some sex offenders.[10][11]
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angelito
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posted May 12, 2010 09:15 AM |
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Quote:
It doesn't require to have a penis, balls, lust or even a tiny bit of libido to commit a rape.
Thus, this wouldn't really work, I think. This is the reason why it isn't practiced.
And how many rapes happen without a penis involved?
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Mytical
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posted May 12, 2010 09:18 AM |
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@Angelito. More then you might think. Not only are there rapes where the man used objects instead, but there are women on women rapes. Just because it is not talked about, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
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JollyJoker
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posted May 12, 2010 09:20 AM |
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Blizz, if you read that, you'll note the word VOLUNTARY there, which is the key point.
People who WANT to stop being slave of their unwholesome desires will of coure profit from a massive reduction of Testosteron and so on. Here, the chemical castration is enough - the people are willing.
With unwilling offenders, though, this looks different. The point is, that chemical castration will produce a lot more WILLING offenders than physical, with the domination deeds not really covered.
The bottom line is, that you WILL probably cure a lot of pedos with chemical castration, while you won't cure violent rapists with neither chemical nor physical castration.
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blizzardboy
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posted May 12, 2010 09:24 AM |
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Yeah.
I still think it's worth a shot with the temporary chemicals since I don't foresee the castration making things outright worse. I'm not a doctor, but I'm guessing the lose of testosterone would decrease their overall aggression, which could help even with assaults apart from rape.
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angelito
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posted May 12, 2010 09:25 AM |
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Quote:
@Angelito. More then you might think. Not only are there rapes where the man used objects instead, but there are women on women rapes. Just because it is not talked about, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
But I guess we can agree those are not the majority, right?
And men (I will leave out the women/women thing, because I really think those are very very few cases in opposit to the men/women and especially men/children cases!) who rape with objects instead of their penis don't do it for their lust, but for torture reasons. So these guys shouldn't be treated as rapists, but as torturer or even murderers.
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blizzardboy
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posted May 12, 2010 09:27 AM |
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It does seem like you're heavily expanding on the meaning of rape.
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