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| Thread: How do you beat the cheating AI? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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galdon
Tavern Dweller
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posted August 29, 2010 07:26 AM |
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Edited by galdon at 06:33, 03 Sep 2010.
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How do you beat the AI?
I've tried to find info on this, but aside from complaints about vague things such as 'computer knows everything' I don't see anything about the kind of cheating I've witnessed.
Obviously, the game is not impossible as many of you can fight at expert level and win, so I'm not going to bother you guys with a whining fit over how 'impossible' it is. What I would like to know though is how do you overcome the AI cheats?
The two main examples I have the most trouble with are these:
1: AI heroes do not lose units, I could knock an AI hero down to 2 dread knights left when they beat my hero, then at the start of my turn, all of their units are back. I've witnessed this several times in different games with different enemies. This makes the often mentioned strategy of weakening an enemy with one general then finishing them with another useless.
2: AI is limitless and relentless, This happened to me on the campaign, on easy, and a couple times on one of the preset maps. I will have all my units in the furthest castle, and every turn, I get attacked by a sizable army, about the equivalent of my entire army, and beating it only due to my fortifications protecting my units. The computer proceeds to send a similarly sized army again every day for 2 weeks, each army growing larger in size rather than smaller, and forcing me to hole up, unable to move or I would lose the castle as well as the hero/army since without the fortifications I'd not stand a chance until their armies finally get too big to defend against.
The odd thing is, I don't see anything about these problems mentioned anywhere, in fact, walkthroughs and strategy guides give advice and tips that only work if the AI didn't do this, so I don't know what is with that. Has anybody here experienced this same situation and is possibly able to give me some advice?
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Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted August 29, 2010 09:53 AM |
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1) The first one doesn't happen. When the AI losses units they are gone for good. What you might be seeing is that the AI sends out several scouts with approximately 1 week of units with each one. It tends to do that instead of combining all the army with one hero. That way it can continually harass you and make it hard to keep your towns.
2) Without knowing the map you are playing, my guess is that you aren't building and expanding fast enough. There are some maps where the AI attacks very early, but on most maps you have time to prepare.
Also keep in mind the saying that the best defense is a good offense. That means don't stay near your town. You should build and expand as fast as possible. Harass the AI instead of playing defensive and letting it harass you. Also get out there fast and get the resources instead of letting the AI have them. Like most strategy games it's about who is fastest so you have to be aggressive.
I don't know how long you have been playing, but it sounds like you just need more practice. You need to learn how to fight so you can do the highest level fights that are possible with the army you have. You don't want to lose units if you don't have to, but it's better to lose some low level units than to sit around doing nothing.
Which map are you playing and what day/week do you start having trouble?
How many heroes do you hire and when?
If you are taking experience from chests, don't. Take the gold instead.
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galdon
Tavern Dweller
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posted August 29, 2010 10:28 AM |
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Edited by galdon at 10:28, 29 Aug 2010.
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I usually start with 2 heroes, and have them spread out in either direction to hit as many artifacts and resource points possible, usually making another hero for each town I get, and one or two for the soul purpose of transporting units to my two combat heroes. usually day 1 I build town hall, then the rest of the week I unlock as many different units as possible so that they can start building up in the background, after that upgrading archer generating buildings, and then getting the capitol and castle.
The specific map outside of the campaign was after relooking to check the name was Crimson and Clover, one specific notable example, I had the underground bottom left castle with some units to defend it, but an enemy hero was moving toward it, with a slightly larger army, so I started my hero to pursue. My hero was unfortunately not able to overtake the enemy hero in time and it attacked the castle, after a long battle, I knocked it's army down to just 2 dread knights before it finally fell. next turn, I attacked the enemy hero, and it had all units rather than simply two dread knights, and the castle taken doesn't have a portal or units of that type available.
I usually take exp from chests if my first hero is below lvl 3, then take gold from the rest.
Not sure what week it is that the problems really begin, but in the campaign, shadow of death, I have issues from the moment the AI appears in my visible area. Second mission of that campaign, I'd gotten four cities, and the resources I could beat the guards of around them, then the moment the enemy shows up, I just get pounded relentlessly.
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Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted August 29, 2010 11:10 AM |
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It's time for me to go to bed, but I'll make a few quick comments.
It's been YEARS since I've played Crimson and Clover. I think that used to be a popular multi-player map and maybe one of the old timer MP people could answer better than me. But as I remember it, C&C was a really fast map with a lot of things to keep multiple heroes busy. So move fast on that map and don't waste steps.
If the AI took your town and was down to 2 units, then had more when you got there, the only way I can think of that happening is if the AI used town portal or a chain to bring in more troops. Are you sure it didn't cast animate dead or resurrection before the end of the first battle?
You say you start with 2 heroes. You might try more than that and experiment. You said you play easy difficulty. On easy you shouldn't need a day one town hall. It's probably much better to build a dwelling on day one and hire the units. Build the highest level dwelling you can.
Angelito is the one to answer SOD campaign questions. But for now I'll just say that on some of those maps it's better to let the AI take your towns and you should just keep moving fast and taking his. If I remember right the second Craig Hack map is like that. You aren't ready to go 1v1 against the AI main in the early game. So you just run and get fights and experience along the way. Eventually you'll have enough levels and army to fight him.
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Petrus_Daniel
Tavern Dweller
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posted August 29, 2010 01:13 PM |
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There is somewhat of a truth to what he is saying, the ai usualy gangs up against you even thou they are not allies, i'v seen it, in heroes 2 is even more obvious, they usualy fight eachother in desperat situations when they need a castle so they wont get eliminated, but mostly they atack you over and over, thats why they have such large armies, becouse they rarely fight eachother. But if you have enough skill you can still overcome.
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Petrus_Daniel
Tavern Dweller
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posted August 29, 2010 01:17 PM |
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The tip with the chests is good, althou i sometimes take the exp. , try geting the most gold posible and building your whole weeks army whenever posible afther you have all the dwellings so that you are not taken by surprise by a big army. Computer usualy hase more army couse he colects more gold and dosnt have the units stuck in standby in the dwellings and of course he has more luck when it comes to units joining him on the map.
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Petrus_Daniel
Tavern Dweller
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posted August 29, 2010 01:18 PM |
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But you shouldnt have any problems at easy dificulty, becouse you start out with more resources, plus the computer plays awfull.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted August 29, 2010 04:30 PM |
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The AI doesn't cheat....at least not in the situations described above.
AI for example cheats with its "knowledge". It "knows" what's inside pandora boxes for example. Or it "knows" pretty early where to dig for the grail.
It never cheats in fights, it is more quite the opposit. AI plays so dumb, you hardly can believe it is AI at all 
____________
Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 29, 2010 04:37 PM |
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Edited by Fauch at 16:39, 29 Aug 2010.
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in heroes 2, I remember one AI (usually purple for some reason) defeating everyone else and controlling the whole map. but usually after, it hadn't enough gold to recruit everything, so you could find nearly undefended castles with dozens of level 6 to recruit.
I remember once, I took a tower, there were 72 titans waiting to be recruited 
in another hand, they can recruit much more in H3, I remember fighting some true powerhouses, but usually all the other heroes were weak.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted August 29, 2010 07:11 PM |
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Once you know how AI rate the spells and creatures it is possible to set it to give interesting fights. It is because mapmakers boosting it with endless spells "to make it harder" that he use the wrong ones. Give him the right spell and he will make your life a nightmare.
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galdon
Tavern Dweller
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posted August 29, 2010 08:05 PM |
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It couldn't have been a chain, as my pursuing hero was only a few hexes behind the enemy hero, so he couldn't get fast reinforcements that way. Not sure about town portal, as I've never unlocked it before, so I don't know what it looks like.
I know it didn't resurrect anything at the end of the battle, as I was playing manually so I had a good idea of exactly what was happening turn by turn.
Paying fairly close attention tot he number of units before and after battle, though I don't lose individual fights often, just that the ones i do lose are ones where i lose most of my nation's army, two more times I've seen the enemy weaken considerably then on the start of my turn when I highlight them their army says the same as it had before the battle, but a few times where they did lose units, I don't know if its a bug in the game, a spell I don't know about, or what.
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Duke_Falcon
Disgraceful
Supreme Hero
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posted August 29, 2010 08:27 PM |
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The AI is very poor in Heroes. Almost every cases the AI could be beaten easily on the first 3 difficulty level...
On the highest difficulty level all depends on how far are your castle from the AI's.
AI always build military buildings. This enable it to attack you earlier but only with smaller forces because later AI won't have enough money to buy decent armies.
The best way (what doesn't work on S maps) if you first build up your economical background and start building army after you have capitol. This made the early game very frustrating and sometimes awfully hard but later it will ensure that you will slay down the AI!
For me this tactic works on the 90% of games.
And remember what many ones told before me: Explore and expanse as quick as you can! It's vital doesn't matter what will it cost!
Oh... And chests... Don't choose Exp in the harder levels! Gold is worth much more if you want to survive the early part of the games...
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galdon
Tavern Dweller
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posted August 29, 2010 10:57 PM |
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So, what is the difference between retreat and surrender? i know when the enemy does either I don't get their artifacts, don't know what the added cost of surrendering benefits though.
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galdon
Tavern Dweller
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posted August 30, 2010 02:04 AM |
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Found that vampire lords give me a huge advantage in single maps, though knowing that makes me nervous about the campaign, seeing as I have to go up against the undead, and none of my scholars in the mage tower thought it to be a good idea to research a turn undead spell. XD
What are the undead's weakness?
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted August 30, 2010 09:51 AM |
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Edited by angelito at 09:51, 30 Aug 2010.
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Quote:
AI always build military buildings. This enable it to attack you earlier but only with smaller forces because later AI won't have enough money to buy decent armies.
Not true. There are 3 characters / personalities for the comp: Warrior, Builder, Explorer. If yo have enough towns with taverns built, you can see that on the bottom of the info window.
Quote:
The best way (what doesn't work on S maps) if you first build up your economical background and start building army after you have capitol. This made the early game very frustrating and sometimes awfully hard but later it will ensure that you will slay down the AI!
For me this tactic works on the 90% of games.
Please do NOT follow this advice 
You get your money from the map! And to get this money (crypts, treasuries, caches, naga banks etc...), you need army. Not much, but solid. So build high level dwells as soon as possible!
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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galdon
Tavern Dweller
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posted August 30, 2010 02:26 PM |
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Edited by galdon at 14:28, 30 Aug 2010.
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Yeah, its that undead campaign that is giving me a lot of trouble, even on easy mode, I need a powerful force to unlock any resource point, but I get so much pressure early on from the AI that I can't afford to move my main force without losing my cities.
Took four days to beat that first level of the campaign, and I only beat it when I decided to skip the building up, just build the strongest garrison building, hired all units i could, hired several rangers and put all their units onto the ranger with logistics, and sent him running wildly at the enemy and took one of the capital cities while the enemy was scouting.
That didn't work in the second one though since the area has a 'you must be this strong to pass' garrison blocking most of the map.
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted August 30, 2010 03:15 PM |
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Besides that AI players know almost everything about map, they also have a bit more movemement points than human players. And, I suppose, have less chances for negative morale in battles (at least, I'm sure about this in Heroes I).
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galdon
Tavern Dweller
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posted August 30, 2010 03:35 PM |
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I actually don't consider knowing the map to be a cheat on the AI's part; knowing the random effects before they happen is a cheat, but a human player can learn a map and the locations of major resources after playing it a few times.
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fargus
Tavern Dweller
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posted August 31, 2010 10:56 AM |
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What is the name of the SOD map(s) you're having trouble with? I recently played through a lot of that campaign and can probably help you out.
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galdon
Tavern Dweller
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posted August 31, 2010 05:16 PM |
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Edited by galdon at 20:29, 31 Aug 2010.
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the second map, After the Artifact, I can take control of all four cities in the corner about half the time, but I can't leave the corner without moving through the barracks, both of which by the time I get there have large armies guarding them, every turn or two an enemy hero runs through and attacks, making it impossible to move enough forces out of the furthest kingdom to continue exploring, as all the rest of the places to access have powerful wild monsters infront of them.
Biggest problem I have on this map is the 'you must be this strong to pass' barriers, there isn't a single gem pond in my corner of the screen, yet I need gems to get my unicorn glade, and by effect, dragons, and half the time by the time i can actually beat the dark knights or vampire lords that block most of the map off, the enemy is coming at me with armies containing hundreds of units compared to my stacks of 30-40 (doesn't help that the undead are immune to blind, which is basically my only reliable status effect magic)
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