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| Thread: Creature Ability Review |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · NEXT» |
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 07, 2011 04:18 AM |
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Creature Ability Review
I will try to make a good effort and comment plus rate on the creatures known abilities.
This is my basic rating system, 10 is max and 1 is worst. I am not bothering to go with decimals, I just round that off.
Here are general "guidelines" on what it means for an ability to have 2 or 6 points etc and then you probably understand that 5 is somewhere between 4 and 6 et cetera.
2/10 - Horrible creature ability that was copied from H5 with no changes and no fun tactical value. Should really, really be changed.
4/10 - May be an ability taken from H5 but it is still interesting and useful. Still not very creative though. Should probably be changed.
6/10 - Good new ability that wasn't in H5 or ability that was in H5 but with a big twist. Doesn't need to be super original. Could use some changes.
8/10 - Very good ability that is new or an old one with a major twist. The ability is also original and creative. Could use a small change to make it better.
10/10 - Excellent and perfect ability that is extremly fun, original, creative and opens a number of differnet strategical uses.
I divide the ratings by themselves.
Haven
SENTINEL/PRAETORIAN
Shielded: I am guessing that this makes them take less ranged damage. Like the Footman in H5. Not very original. 2/10
Shieldguard: I don't know if this is the old "Shield Allies" ability or something new but I asume it is the first one that makes surrounding allies take less damage or get more defense. Not very original either but atleast it gives them a clear sign that they are tanks. 4/10
Shield Bash: I asume it is the same type of stun as the Squire had in H5. Again, not original though I always thought this ability was quite interesting. Let's hope that it's not random! 4/10
Total rating based on 10: 3/10 - These guys don't have any real new, original ability which is a pity considering that they are one of the most well-designed units when it comes to visuals.
CROSSBOWMAN
Armor Piercing: Name speaks for itself. It is obviously reducing or ignoring some Defense, same as Marksman in H5 but lets hope its not in melee. Nothing new. 2/10
Piercing Bolt: I am asuming that this is a powerful direct damage attack which would come very handy for the very defense and support-oriented Haven. A very useful ability for Haven but is it interesting and original? No. Still, it did not exist in H5. 6/10
Total rating based on 10: 4/10 - Armor piercing is old and Piercing Bolt useful but not very interesting either. Personally, I would LOVE the idea of a Sun falcon as people have suggested here.
GRIFFIN
Diving Assault: It's probably going to be the exact same or 90% similar to one of the H5 abilities. Despite this, it is an interesting ability so it gets 4/10.
Unlimited Retailation: This is not a fun ability at all and its probably just gonna be copy pasted from H5. 2/10
Total rating based on 10: 3/10 - This is the same Griffin from H5 in new clothes. I want to feel like I am playing with new creatures, not feel like they just copy pasted something from the previous game and gave it a new model and textures.
Inferno
HELLHOUND
Unlimited Retailation: AGAIN!? Well, it would be unfair to give the same ability a different rating just because it's on a different creature so sorry Hellhound, but you only score 2/10.
Eye of Gluttony: This sounds like Enrage 2.0 and maybe you select a target to be angry at now. Sorry, but becoming angry at something and dealing damage isn't very interesting to me but it sounds like there might be some kind of twist to it so I won't butcher this ability completly. 4/10
Voracious: This is just another but cooler name for multi-attack. Even if I like the name, the ability is still probably the same. Nothing new hear. 2/10
Total rating based on 10: 3/10 - For the Hellhound, it feels like all three abilities probably existed in H5 in the exact or a very, very similar shape and that does not make Xerox impressed.
JUGGERNAUT
Chaotic Armour: Sure this may provide some strategic value but seriously, haven't we seen this ability in every single Heroes game? It is not creative in any way and they could easly have made some twist to it. Even some kind of minor spell reflection would have improved it greatly! 2/10.
Unstoppable Charge: It sounds like these guys damage all creaturs on the way to the target plus it enables them to damage walls. I believe there was an ability like this in H5 but without the siege part. Still, it is a strategic and nice ability plus again, the siege thing is new. A well deserved 6/10. Plus it has quite an awesomeness factor, don't you think?
Taunting Prescense: Ah, a new ability or atleast a twist of a H5 one! In H5, one of the orcs had a Taunt ability but it was one a single target. Honestly, together with Unstoppable Charge this seems to be an awesome front-tank creature and I see a lot of strategic value with this. 6/10
Total rating based on 10: 5/10 - Wow, I thought I was going to be very disappointed but since the standard is so low - I am not! A very good and suprising score for the Juggernaut! Both the Unstoppable Charge and Taunting prescense may be twists on H5 abilities but they still bring new stuff and new strategic value. I wanted to give it a 6 for its overall awesomeness but no, I can not cheat my own system. 
Necropolis
SKELETON (oh why did you have to QQ at the old name? ;( )
Hollow: I stated at the start that I did not consider copying H5 to be any good at all. But I did not say anything about H1-H4 and this is a H4 so I actually kind of see it as a new ability. Even if it wasn't in H5, it likely means that this creature just takes reduced ranged damage which isn't interesting at all and may just be another name for the Sentinels Shielded ability. 4/10 since it's not from H5.
Webbing Spears: It seems like their attacks slow enemies. There was such an attack, which was a poison, in H5 but this is still an interesting ability and it isn't a poison. Stll, it does not compare to the Juggernaut abilities so it fits well on 4/10 too. It may have gotten a six if a similar ability wasn't in H5.
Total rating based on 10: 3/10 - While Hollow was "new", it isn't an interesting ability and while Webbing Spears could be quite interesting, there was a very similar ability in H5 instead!
But are Skeletons expected to have very exciting abilities? The H5 Skeleton would probably have even lower grades.
GHOUL
Dead Flesh: It's pretty safe to asume that the Ghoul takes less non-magic damage than other creatures and while this did not exist in H5 afaik, it isn't very interesting either. 4/10 but if it was in H5, it would have got a 2!
Rage Against the Living: This one is hard to decipher but I guess the Ghouls get more stats when there are living creatures on the battlefield? As I can't tell if this is a boring passive bonus or something exciting, I will give it 6/10 and it certainly did not exist in H5.
Total rating based on 10: 3/10 - Dead Flesh is a new ability but its not very interesting. If Rage Against the Living is interesting, then it might get an 8 but we simply don't exactly know what it does yet.
GHOST
Immaterial: I am asuming that this is the upgraded Incorporeality. So what this seems to do is reducing damage taken a bit, the ghost can move through objects and there is a small chance that enemies will miss it just like in H5 though magical attacks ignore it. This is a lot for one ability! Now damage taken is not very original but moving through objects certainly is something completly new! Ghosts were my most hated enemy and even ALLY in H5 because I just HATED the super annyoing miss thing.
I want to give this an 8 but the miss thing ruins it for me so I will give this one a unique point, a 7/10.
Wail of the Netherworld: Oh, a support ability for Necropolis! Very interesting and very nice! This fits Necropolis so much! And it has some additional strategic value as it deals damage to creatures around the affected friendly creature and that damage adds up to additional healing. Excellent! Best ability so far. 10/10. And it looks amazing aswell.
Death Sceal: Another extremly useful and strategic ability! I am so impressed with the Ghost! Its powerful enough to be an elite unit! This seems like a huge counter to Haven players who want to ressurect massive stacks but does it have much use outside of countering Haven? I don't really think so but of course, other heroes will have ressurection aswell but I can't give this 10 because of its limited use. 8/10 seems nice though, doesn't it?
Total rating based on 10: 8/10 - Amazing creature! Wow, it has so many new and cool and useful and strategic abilities! I love this creature! Its so refreshing after most (except maybe the Juggernaut) really sucked! Really cool creature. Good job!
VAMPIRE
Vampiric Embrace: Yay, WoW name! Jokes aside, this is the old Drain life with a new fancy name so sorry, but you're never gonna beat the ladies mr. Vampire! 2/10
Out of Time: So as I understand it, when the Vampire is Defending, it phases out of the material world and gameplaywise - it cannot be hit then untill it acts or it has been hit twice? Sounds like a really cool and new ability but its strategic value is not enough to give it an eight. It does give them some probably much needed survivability though if they are anything like in H5 where they appeared as kind of weak to me atleast. 6/10
Vampiric Grasp: This sounds like an upgraded Vampiric Embrace but I seriously have no idea idea at all so I won't even try to ruin the points here!
Total rating based on 10: 4/10 - Hmm, over average! Despite the old Life drain which is a classic of course, it still got the new Out of Time which seems very interesting! With all these cool abilities, Necropolis may actually turn out to become my new favorite faction as there is no Sylvan (/cry).
LICH
Asha's Embrace: Again, I have absolutely no idea what this does so no - I won't rate this one! Which means that the next ability, will decide its final score! I get it easy this time...
Life Drain: So this is the new, new, new life drain but now its on Liches! And it actually drains life from enemies to allies! Yay, more support and friendship for the once unsupporting Necro creatures! I like this ability a lot and I am sure it can provide a lot of strategy but it isn't an amazingely creative ability and it has been suggested a lot of times so 6/10.
Total rating based on 10: 6/10 - So Liches got away because they confused me with their Asha's Embrace ability! So we got 5 Necropolis creatures now and I think that especially this one, Vampire and Ghost scored REALLY good so I must say, excellent job with Necropolis Ubi and Black Hole! Now fix Skeletons and maybe Ghouls. xD
Top 3 Best Creatures right now!
1. Ghost 7/10. Beautiful creature with excellent and very strategical abilities in the Wail of the Netherworld, Immaterial and Death Sceal (is it supposed to be Seal? ). Love them!
2. Lich 6/10. Atleast untill you keep the secrets of Asha's Embrace away from me! This won't last long... unless her embrace is really good of course!
3. Juggernaut 5/10. Oh, almost! You deserve more! But the system doesn't lie. Damn, Chaotic Armor and boring Magical Immunity that brough you down! I once hated you Juggernaut but now I see you as an interesting creature! And you look fabolous!
Yeah, Necro pwns and no, I do not favor them actually - Necro was my least favorite faction in H5 together with Academy actually! Both had some ridiculous and SLOW creatures (zombie... gargoyle *please kill me*).
Top 3 Worst creatures right now
1. Wow! A lot of creatures shared the place as the worst ones with 3/10 points! Haven had the Griffin and Sentinel both who had stolen abilities from the H5 Griffin and Footman! On Inferno, the Hellhound was brought down to 3/10 because even if it is not feline, he still a H5 copycat! For Necropolis, the Ghoul and Skeleton just couldn't compete with the Elite!
2. Crossbowman & Vampire! Oh, you make such a cute couple! While the Crossbowman had a completly new active ability - it wasn't very interesting and the Vampire had an ability that I did not know what it was though it did have one very, very cool ability called Out of Time (for what? cupcakes?).
3. Oh, sweet Juggernaut! You're between heaven and hell or in both of them actually as you are number three of both lists! Come on, remove that magical immuntiy so you can be on top!
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That's all the released abilities for now.
I will update this as we know more about existing abilities and receive information about new ones.
Now I have done this all the evening so i'm going to bed! Good night!
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Properkheldar
Famous Hero
Keeper of books
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posted January 07, 2011 09:34 AM |
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Quote:
SENTINEL/PRAETORIAN
Shielded: I am guessing that this makes them take less ranged damage. Like the Footman in H5. Not very original. 2/10
Shieldguard: I don't know if this is the old "Shield Allies" ability or something new but I asume it is the first one that makes surrounding allies take less damage or get more defense. Not very original either but atleast it gives them a clear sign that they are tanks. 4/10
Shield Bash: I asume it is the same type of stun as the Squire had in H5. Again, not original though I always thought this ability was quite interesting. Let's hope that it's not random! 4/10
Total rating based on 10: 3/10 - These guys don't have any real new, original ability which is a pity considering that they are one of the most well-designed units when it comes to visuals.
I actually had a lot to comment on, but I decided to just comment on the sentinel/preatorian bit of your post.
Now, the shielded part is probably not for ranged damage. The description talks about defense against flying creatures. So, it´s a new ability (to my knowledge) and not the same as the footman in H5.
The shieldguard ability could also mean that they actually move to intercept an enemy attack on an ally, or that if they stand beside another allied unit they take some of the damage instead. Don´t only have to mean increased defense like an aura.
Shield bash is probably not the stun ability from H5. It sounds more like the counterattack ability the haven heroes have in H5 where you can choose an allied creature and then the preatorian counterattacks all enemies that attack the chosen ally.
In conclusion, I think 3/10 is far to low. Sure, it´s a purley defensive creature but also very tactical. The shield bash abiilty could potentially be very annoying (like an griffin/preatorian combo).
(There is a lot more things i think you have misinterpreted so i think your scores would be higher in general)
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whiterider
Known Hero
death walks with me
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posted January 07, 2011 10:57 AM |
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quite an inadequate review. For the first time we have so many abilities per creature which is just GREAT and you do not like skills like Drain Life for a vampire or multi-attack for multi-headed creature. Maybe some vanguard ability like fly for the cerberus will be ok for you?
I say to the devs - just go in this direction, give all troops many abilities as well many activated/spell-like skills not only passive and the game will rock.
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Nocturnal
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted January 07, 2011 11:46 AM |
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Quote:
quite an inadequate review. For the first time we have so many abilities per creature which is just GREAT and you do not like skills like Drain Life for a vampire or multi-attack for multi-headed creature. Maybe some vanguard ability like fly for the cerberus will be ok for you?
I say to the devs - just go in this direction, give all troops many abilities as well many activated/spell-like skills not only passive and the game will rock.
I couldn't agree more. Your review is just irrelevant with the creatures and the game and the universe. Disliking classic abilities that made a creature itself  You see the shield in sentinel's hand but you dislike the ability "shielded". Of course it is shielded, you cant dislike something like that. You cant dislike vampire's life drain, griffin's air dive, and so on... Some abilities are "musts". This is like disliking all necro creatures' standart ability "undead creature" or "living creature" for the Marksman. Please
I think the creature abilities are wonderful so far. So many and so smart. Keep up the good work dev.s
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted January 07, 2011 11:52 AM |
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You are quite wrong about a number of abilities. Maybe wait till you actually know what they do?
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Jabanoss
Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
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posted January 07, 2011 02:13 PM |
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Edited by Jabanoss at 14:24, 07 Jan 2011.
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That's one impressive review, but I think you underestimate the uses of some of the "boring" abilities.
First of Elvin is right we have not really been given all the facts here, but it's never wrong to speculate or review for that.
Shielded for example might seem boring, but just that fact that it can withstand more ranged or flyer attacks forces the opponent to act differently. Sometimes the most simple ability is the most genius one.
Can't wait to see what the abilities really are doing and what their stats are 
Edit: And what is wrong if a certain ability was in Heroes 5?
I mean you shouldn't remove something just for the sake of removing it....
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"You turn me on Jaba"
- Meroe
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kodial79
Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
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posted January 07, 2011 02:35 PM |
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I rate the review with 2/10 because it's a boring review and feels like the reviewer was complaining for the sake of complaining and biased because he dislikes H5 so much and thinks that any ability used in that game, should not be used again.
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Signature? I don't need no stinking signature!
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kodial79
Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
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posted January 07, 2011 03:48 PM |
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Emotionless something? O_o
Haha! Oh well, the facts that OP complains too much while knowing too little and that he's biased because he hated H5, are undisputable. Just because an ability was in H5 now it can't be in H6, that's what he's trying to say more or less. How could anyone agree to that?
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Signature? I don't need no stinking signature!
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Abiogenist
Hired Hero
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posted January 07, 2011 04:29 PM |
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I really don't understand the basis for his ability reviews. So just because it's a rehash from previous HoMM, not fun, not original, then that means it's discouraged?
I don't agree. Abilities don't have to be cool, complicated, or what not. Functionality and tactical potentiality should be considered.
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OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
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posted January 07, 2011 04:33 PM |
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How can you review anything that hasn't been tested? 
____________
The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down
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Nelgirith
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted January 07, 2011 05:12 PM |
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Quote:
I really don't understand the basis for his ability reviews. So just because it's a rehash from previous HoMM, not fun, not original, then that means it's discouraged?
I don't agree. Abilities don't have to be cool, complicated, or what not. Functionality and tactical potentiality should be considered.
/sign
I would dare xerox to come up with more original abilities without using any existing one from previous HoMM !
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whiterider
Known Hero
death walks with me
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posted January 07, 2011 06:28 PM |
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This is a proof how the mental spam produces more mental spam 
Just ignore the thread
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 07, 2011 06:34 PM |
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I think a screenshot showed that each creatures had 8 slots for special abilities. and it showed the skeletons had 6 I think.
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whiterider
Known Hero
death walks with me
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posted January 07, 2011 06:35 PM |
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The slots are for special abilities AND activated spells and influence from hero skills.
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted January 08, 2011 03:17 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
I really don't understand the basis for his ability reviews. So just because it's a rehash from previous HoMM, not fun, not original, then that means it's discouraged?
I don't agree. Abilities don't have to be cool, complicated, or what not. Functionality and tactical potentiality should be considered.
/sign
I would dare xerox to come up with more original abilities without using any existing one from previous HoMM !
Oh he does already. He simply imports stuff from WoW just look at older contests he posts tons of rehased WoW skills.
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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mike80d
Famous Hero
Map Maker
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posted January 08, 2011 03:44 AM |
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I disagree with the scoring. Just b/c an ability has been used before shouldn't make it an automatic '2'. An ability can be similar or the same as a previous one and still have a strategic usage.
My one disappointment of all the abilities is that it seems there aren't many that are activated. I loved in Kings Bounty the diverse range of activated abilities that created unlimited combinations of tactics. Static only abilities are boring 
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 08, 2011 03:47 AM |
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What? Please link me a faction I made myself that I have copied WoW abilities from.
Anyway, I know that we do not know exactly what all the abilities do yet but I still think its very useful to provide feedback on them early on as the game is supposed to come out in like March.
I will ofc edit this when we get more information about them and get new ones.
Yes, I am complaining a lot because with a new game - I also expect new abilities and not copied abilities from H5. So even if I rated many low, consider them high since the standard was so low anyway.
I also want some classical abilities to stay but the rating system I made for myself would make it unfair to give certain abilities high points just because they are classical.
And I did not hate H5. I thought H5 had waaaaay better gameplay than H3 and those who have been on this forum for a while probably know that. I loved many parts of H5 but I do not like when half the creatures SEEM to get abilities that were also in H5 without any real twist to them.
However, I do accept criticsm so I may redo this in the future when more abilities are released and then I will be kinder and probably give higher ratings based on strategical value rather than giving low points because it was in H5 (that will still be something bad though!)
Fine, I will come up with my own abilities for the top worst creatures as I write this post so do not expect anything spectacular (look on my factions instead and future factions).
SENTINEL
Warden: The Sentinel can select an allied creature to protect, causing the next attack that is going to be dealt to the targeted creature to be redirected at the Praetorian instead. The Warded creature also takes 20% less damage.
GRIFFIN
Snatch: The Griffin can grab a creature from the battlefield and lift it to the sky, taking it out of the combat for X turns. This ability puts both the Griffin and the Snatched creature outside of the combat for these turns.
HELLHOUND
Pursue: The Hellhound starts to chase a target which means that it will follow it everytime it moves and bite it for 50% of its usual damage. Pursue is broken if the Hellhound stops from standing next to the Pursued creature and moves to a completly different tile.
GHOUL
Ravenous Howl: Stuns all surrounding enemies within a 4x4 radius for X turns and reduces their morale by -1.
SKELETON
Spearwall: The Skeleton can throw a spear to a location on the battlefield making it the spear act as a block. Enemies standing close to the Spearwall will take damage and it can not be killed. The Spearwall covers an 1x2 area.
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Kraken
Famous Hero
I just love being elemental
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posted January 08, 2011 06:24 AM |
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I was just reading the Ghoul's Abilities, when the one, entitled Dead Flesh, stated a very interesting tidbit of information.:
""This meat is as tough as ghoul's skin." A famous line from a Naga comic play, recounting the story..."
Is this proof of Naga to be the 5th and final race?
____________
Vini Vidi Vici
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted January 08, 2011 11:41 AM |
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Quote:
""This meat is as tough as ghoul's skin." A famous line from a Naga comic play, recounting the story..."
Is this proof of Naga to be the 5th and final race?
No, I am afraid it is not. As I've pointed out before, in the predictions for the fifth race topic.
The Wizards of Academy get mentioned left and right. Yet we know they are not in the game as a faction. The Dwarves get mentioned, same problem.
The Naga are a part of the world and they will get mentioned eventually. Do not conclude anything to soon.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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kodial79
Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
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posted January 08, 2011 12:08 PM |
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Edited by kodial79 at 12:10, 08 Jan 2011.
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Griffin's snatch is silly... Imagine a griffin unit trying to lift a Juggernaut, Cyclops or Seraphs units in the air? Even if the Griffins outnumber them, it just doesn't seem right.
Spearwall, I can't even imagine how it supposedly does damage to those around it. Anyway, it seems too hyperbolic from the description to throw spears and create a wall with them.
Warden is just a variation of an already existing skill. And a skill that was in H5 too, at that. You just nerfed it a little and that's all.
Pursue doesn't seem like a good idea either. I like Eye of Gluttony better, than having Hell Hounds moving around without my saying so.
The only one that I can agree on, is NightTerror's Eat Corpse skill for ghouls. I mean, it's the main characteristic of the ghoul. Actually, the only characteristic of the ghoul that haven't been changed throughout time, is that they eat the flesh of the dead. I think this skill is a must that the Ghouls should have. Just as well, it is in their description, "they feed on corpses".
Other keywords of the Ghoul's description is "Ravenous", and "carry diseases in their blood and saliva". Taking that into account, is that the Ghouls should have abilities concerning their bite. Pretty much something like Zombie's ability to curse the victims it attacked, with diseases.
It's kinda hard to imagine how since they described the ghoul to be a disease carrier and a corpse eater, they didn't give abilities that correspond to that. Perhaps these are not all?
____________
Signature? I don't need no stinking signature!
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