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| Thread: Is war evil? And if so, is it nesscissary? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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ohforfsake
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posted January 31, 2011 05:31 AM |
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Okay, either you've a moral codex that says everyone deserve to die [since no one can be innocent by the definition in my previous post], or you've misunderstood my definition, or something else.
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gnomes2169
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posted January 31, 2011 05:44 AM |
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Quote:
Okay, either you've a moral codex that says everyone deserve to die [since no one can be innocent by the definition in my previous post], or you've misunderstood my definition, or something else.
No, I think that you misunderstood what I meant
I meant that, if given a choice between my death or the death of someone I don't know, I will choose them. Otherwise, I won't care if they live or die... for the most part. Nothing is certain until I'm put into these situations.
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
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ohforfsake
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posted January 31, 2011 05:48 AM |
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Ah okay, yes that's a fair answer, if I understood correct.
Summary, you value your own life higher than the life of someone you do not know (yet convinced doesn't deserve to die).
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gnomes2169
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posted January 31, 2011 06:39 AM |
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No, they don't deserve to die, but I will naturally value myself higher then them.
Name a human you know personally who won't respond the same.
(Also, goodnight!)
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
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ohforfsake
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posted January 31, 2011 06:42 AM |
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I don't know how anyone would respond to that scenario, except for you, so I can't.
Good night. Strange, I almost suspect that the forum time lines somewhat neetly up with your time zone. Here it's 6:40 AM and I've already been sleeping from 9 PM to 2:30 AM.
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shyranis
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posted February 02, 2011 08:56 AM |
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War is inherently evil, no matter the intentions that brought people into it... road to hell and all.
War cost me most of my extended family and my oldest brother.
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gnomes2169
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posted February 05, 2011 05:30 AM |
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War is inherently evil, no matter the intentions that brought people into it... road to hell and all.
War cost me most of my extended family and my oldest brother.
Well, I'm my immediate family's oldest child, but I know what you mean. My extended family had about 65-73 people in it that I knew about. In three years, it dropped down to 52.
That is the reason why I made this thread. Trust me when I say that I am sorry for your loss, because, even though I don't actually know you, I have been to the place where you are(were) and I know how a broken heart feels.
No person should have to live with that.
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
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shyranis
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posted February 06, 2011 02:38 PM |
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Still true now.
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baklava
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Mostly harmless
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posted February 06, 2011 02:50 PM |
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Nazis.
No matter how right they are, they're still Nazis.
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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LionoftheNorth
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posted February 06, 2011 05:06 PM |
- penalty applied by VokialBG on 13 Aug 2011. |
Edited by Corribus at 07:07, 14 Aug 2011.
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Waging war is not evil when done to defend human rights/natural rights. That applies both when fighting a dictatorial regime that is a threat to it's own people, and when fighting an enemy or an ideology that is a threat to your own people. It is a perfectly conservative world view that local self-governance must never narrow down the natural rights, who are over all laws.
MOD NOTE: Penalty applied for unauthorized posting by a previously banned member.
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Doomforge
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posted February 06, 2011 05:19 PM |
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Waging war is not evil when done to defend human rights/natural rights.
If war is done to defend human rights/natural rights by violating those rights at every moment possible, still not evil to you?
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LionoftheNorth
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posted February 06, 2011 05:26 PM |
- penalty applied by VokialBG on 13 Aug 2011. |
Edited by Corribus at 07:07, 14 Aug 2011.
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Quote:
Quote:
Waging war is not evil when done to defend human rights/natural rights.
If war is done to defend human rights/natural rights by violating those rights at every moment possible, still not evil to you?
That the cause is righteous, does not guarantee that every action done during the war is righteous.
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Doomforge
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posted February 06, 2011 07:03 PM |
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In other words, it's perfectly ok to have a few natural casualties here or there as long as the "goal" is noble.
But, for who the goal is noble, actually?
Try thinking like the citizen of a country invaded "for greater good" for a while.
So, let's assume the "peacekeepers" bombed a terrorist lair, which actually happened to be next to the place your mother went to to gossip with her friends. And the bomb ripped her apart.
Let's also assume your brother was a soldier, that he got an order to protect the town from "peacekeepers", and was gunned down by them as a "rebel" or "terrorist" or whatever. Like he could do anything about the order, being a simple soldier meant to follow orders.
I can so totally picture you justifying those fantastic people who killed your mother and your brother for the just and noble cause of wiping terrorism off the face of the planet. <facepalm>
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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JollyJoker
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posted February 06, 2011 07:07 PM |
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Natural rights are just a postulation like hell, god, dark matter and so on.
Nature grants no rights, though, and every right a human may have with their birth are granted by the society he/she is born into, the constitution, the law and the law enforcement agencies.
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LionoftheNorth
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posted February 06, 2011 07:40 PM |
- penalty applied by VokialBG on 13 Aug 2011. |
Edited by Corribus at 07:07, 14 Aug 2011.
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Quote:
In other words, it's perfectly ok to have a few natural casualties here or there as long as the "goal" is noble.
But, for who the goal is noble, actually?
Try thinking like the citizen of a country invaded "for greater good" for a while.
So, let's assume the "peacekeepers" bombed a terrorist lair, which actually happened to be next to the place your mother went to to gossip with her friends. And the bomb ripped her apart.
Let's also assume your brother was a soldier, that he got an order to protect the town from "peacekeepers", and was gunned down by them as a "rebel" or "terrorist" or whatever. Like he could do anything about the order, being a simple soldier meant to follow orders.
I can so totally picture you justifying those fantastic people who killed your mother and your brother for the just and noble cause of wiping terrorism off the face of the planet. <facepalm>
Of course a war always a terrible thing, but you have to compare those unfortunate causalities caused by mistakes with the organised murder of tens of thousands. (like the Christians and kurds of Iraq for example) When given two opinions that both contains eventual offences against the natural law, you have to chose the lesser evil. To not stop a murderous regime would be to chose the greater evil.
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Natural rights are just a postulation like hell, god, dark matter and so on.
For us conservatives, it does. It can be proven if you look at human history, things like stealing, lying, murder and such has always been seen as immoral or surrounded with "special" laws or religious rites. Some things just plainly goes against human nature. The moral universalism that is the basis of this view of man and natural rights, however, originates from the judeo-christian values western civilisation, and is threatened by todays cultural relativism and cultural masochism.
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Doomforge
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posted February 06, 2011 07:51 PM |
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To not stop a murderous regime would be to chose the greater evil.
I would really like you to talk to the recent "victims" of the regimes (such as oh-so-murderous Iraq) and ask them whether they even WANTED their "liberation". And whether life is better now. And were deaths of their loved ones a price good enough to pay for the pitiful "freedom" the war brought to them.
You seem like a guy who throws high moral/ideological-excuses for crime (such as every war is) while sitting home safe in front of an expensive PC surrounded by a loving family, safe and happy. No offense. I don't mean to offend you, merely to point out that you're pretty biased.
(I might be of course wrong, you might have had harsh life and sad experiences. I'm just guessing here.)
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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LizardWarrior
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the reckoning is at hand
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posted February 06, 2011 07:51 PM |
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war is VERY profitable.
Sadly, I can't help but think a third World War would get us out of the economic slump.
For the majority of population it wasn't profitable,but for some "smart guys" it was a very good buisiness...
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Warlord
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posted February 06, 2011 08:16 PM |
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No, it was profitable for almost everyone. They got jobs, didn't they?
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JollyJoker
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posted February 06, 2011 09:11 PM |
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[ When given two opinions that both contains eventual offences against the natural law, you have to chose the lesser evil. To not stop a murderous regime would be to chose the greater evil.
What certainly leads to a lot of evil is the conviction that you would have to chose "the lesser evil". There is no known scale on which evil can be measured, it's not even clear whether there even is factual evil outside of what humans say it is.
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Natural rights are just a postulation like hell, god, dark matter and so on.
For us conservatives, it does. It can be proven if you look at human history.
I looked. No, it can't be proven, and it doesn't matter what conservatives or anyone else may believe.
Vikings.
Mongoles.
Plundering, killing, raping - the natural right of the strongest. And if you look at nature you will see that nature doesn't care much about rights except that of the strongest.
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bixie
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my common sense is tingling!
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posted February 06, 2011 10:47 PM |
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Natural rights are just a postulation like hell, god, dark matter and so on.
For us conservatives, it does. It can be proven if you look at human history.
I looked. No, it can't be proven, and it doesn't matter what conservatives or anyone else may believe.
Vikings.
Mongoles.
Plundering, killing, raping - the natural right of the strongest. And if you look at nature you will see that nature doesn't care much about rights except that of the strongest.
you missed out the romans, the greeks, the egyptians, the sumerians, the english, the french, the americans, the chinese, the japanese, the indians, the aztecs, the germans, the russians, the huns, the celts, the hootoos, the tootsis, the Afrikaans, the masai... actually, pretty much every civilisation on the planet that has made history has followed this rule. That and cultural degredation and enforcement.
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