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| Thread: Is war evil? And if so, is it nesscissary? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · «PREV |
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted June 20, 2012 12:58 AM |
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War is the continuation of politics by other means. - Carl von Clausewitz
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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GunFred
Supreme Hero
Sexy Manticore
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posted June 20, 2012 02:29 AM |
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Quote:
War is, by my opinion, a test for humankind. Today, we have weapons which can bring massive massacre, maybe even death to humankind. Now, if we want to prove we are the the best product of evolution, we'll solve all problems by diplomacy. If we won't, we'll start war and destroy the humankind. That's like evolution - if humanty won't be wise enough, we'll be extinct.
I really like and agree with what I read here. Diplomacy truly is a challenge worthy of taking while war is the easy way out like a cyanide pill.
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted June 20, 2012 05:32 PM |
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Only the foolish or the zealot think they have a right to claim they are the ultimate moral compass. Morality is very seldom black and white. Yes, there are some cases that are the exception..but they are specific exceptions, not general. Take killing. In general, it is hard to say if it is morally wrong. When you get into specifics, it gets a little less muddy, but over all..not so much.
Somebody is about to kill a child, even though I consider myself a very moral person..I would not lose a moments sleep to stop them. However..what if I was wrong about what I saw? Say I come into a room..and noticed them about to stab a child? So I react, and in the scuffle kill them. Now what if it turns out they were about to stab the child with a needle in the heart to counter some biological agent? It was too dark for me to see what they had in their hand..but it LOOKED like a knife..in the brief second I got to look at it. Am I still in the right? (Just an example, and probably not really a realistic one).
War over all is generally a bad thing..but if a militaristic nation comes and starts killing your people..and you fight back..it is not so morally wrong. Before the bible thumpers jump in..if you don't want to fight back, and be killed to get your ticket to heaven fine..but you have no right nor moral authority to say others should just lay down and die.
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Message received.
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Tsar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted June 20, 2012 05:47 PM |
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Quote:
War over all is generally a bad thing..but if a militaristic nation comes and starts killing your people..and you fight back..it is not so morally wrong. Before the bible thumpers jump in..if you don't want to fight back, and be killed to get your ticket to heaven fine..but you have no right nor moral authority to say others should just lay down and die.
Actually, the Bhagavad-Gita is the story of a prince who asked god for advice on the battlefield, for he did not wish to have to slaughter his friends, teachers, cousins and half his nation. After many lessons (which covers pretty much everything lol) the final conclusion was that it was his duty as a prince to do what must be done. (I made it sound cheesy and absolute, but it is not so)
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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Elodin
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Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted June 20, 2012 06:09 PM |
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Quote:
War over all is generally a bad thing..but if a militaristic nation comes and starts killing your people..and you fight back..it is not so morally wrong. Before the bible thumpers jump in..if you don't want to fight back, and be killed to get your ticket to heaven fine..but you have no right nor moral authority to say others should just lay down and die.
Actually, "Bible thumpers" should say that justifiable war (like an atheist nation such as the old USSR attacking another nation without just cause) is ok.
It is not possible to live peaceably with a man or nation that is unwilling to live in peace with others.
Quote:
Rom 12:18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.
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Revelation
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JoonasTo
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted June 20, 2012 08:28 PM |
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What is a just cause for attacking another nation?
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted June 20, 2012 09:44 PM |
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Land, gold, slaves, and glory.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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Tsar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted June 20, 2012 09:51 PM |
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Spreading love and culture to all the peoples of the world. One, by one.
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted June 20, 2012 10:05 PM |
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Quote:
Actually, "Bible thumpers" should say that justifiable war (like an atheist nation such as the old USSR attacking another nation without just cause) is ok.
Yup, the atheist USSR has invaded Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq without a just cause over the last 60 years... Or was it just one of them? Maybe I'm mistaking it with some other US-thing.
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JollyJoker
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Undefeatable Hero
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posted June 20, 2012 10:40 PM |
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Quote:
What is a just cause for attacking another nation?
They have something you need and they don't want to share/sell it?
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GunFred
Supreme Hero
Sexy Manticore
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posted June 21, 2012 02:27 AM |
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"Rom 12:18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men."
Lol, live only with men? Sounds gay... Just joking...
The god-forsaken communist atheist nation of Sweden had its last war about 200 years ago. Maybe the rest of the world could learn something and maybe consider to submit to the swedish crown. Our swedish king and comrade Carl XVI Gustaf treats his serfs well and sends the children to education camps where they are taught to laugh at religion, capitalism and free will.
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VOKIALBG
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Legendary Hero
First in line
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posted June 21, 2012 08:47 AM |
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Quote:
It is only good to fight a war in self-defense. Otherwise, it is evil.
Bellum Justum isn't a supported theory today.
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mvassilev
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Undefeatable Hero
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posted June 21, 2012 11:17 AM |
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted June 21, 2012 02:26 PM |
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Actually, Sweden participates in Afghanistan now so I would hardly call us neutral anymore. (but I support us participating as long as the goal is to help the afghan people and not the americans)
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted June 22, 2012 12:25 AM |
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I never much liked the concept of "Just War". It smacks a little too much of moral absolutism to me. No matter what the war is, obviously someone thinks it's justified; else they wouldn't be fighting it. Justice seems a pretty relative concept to me, in any case.
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
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posted June 22, 2012 02:22 AM |
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Edited by Seraphim at 02:24, 22 Jun 2012.
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To answer your question, there is no absolute evil or good.
I am an atheist and believe that morals are centered in our brain, "Empathy Center". We can of course "demonize" certain people,populations, ideologies and can readily start to murder the people who support those ideologies or have a certain ethnic background.
The bystander effect is a nice rendition of what I want to say.
Repeat to a group of people something enough, and they will believe that. The minority that questions that is overheard .
I dont think that war is "Evil".
War has been a part of human history since forever. Greed and pride are vices that we love to respect.
War is not necessary but becomes impossible to overcome when you have to deal with completely opposite political stances, beliefs,economic standards and so on.
Can a war be just? Of course it can. One can simply look at the war of Kosovo or South ossetia and see that it can actually save some citizens.
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted June 22, 2012 02:58 AM |
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Morality comes from society, despite what some may think. While religion has been around for a long time, society has been around for much longer. While bad things were done, that is true, good things were long before religion set down their 'moral code'. Morality also shifts through the ages. What is considered 'good' today, might be seen as some horrible evil to future societies. Heck the thought of separating people based on sex, color, or sexual orientation might be seen as as evil as murder to somebody a thousand years from now. We do not know.
I do agree that society as a whole needs a system of laws..to keep the animal in humans at bay..and that a moral code is needed..for now. One day, hopefully..neither will be needed, as we will have evolved enough that it is no longer required.
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Message received.
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