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| Thread: Meet your Meat |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 · «PREV |
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted March 09, 2011 07:05 PM |
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These guys seem to have the right idea. Anyone know anything about them?
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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ohforfsake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted March 09, 2011 07:10 PM |
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted March 21, 2011 03:25 PM |
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Edited by Corribus at 23:22, 16 Aug 2011.
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MOD NOTE: I have cleaned the thread of several pages of posts made by and responding to a well known troll. However, I just couldn't bring myself to delete the following post during the purge - it is so classic baklava.
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted March 21, 2011 06:12 PM |
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Edited by baklava at 18:16, 21 Mar 2011.
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The nightterrors are solitary animals, usually passive, though quite territorial. This particular female is now, however, driven by hunger; she hasn't had a QP for a while, and with the moderator generosity season at an end, the few that remain are getting increasingly hard to find. The nightterror is forced to leave its native Temple habitat and goes off to hunt in the dangerous savannas on the Other Side, for another, perhaps more important source of food - attention.
Here we can see a peaceful herd of humans, slowly digesting the everyday topics of ethics and religion. The nightterror carefully lurks in the bushes around the thread, waiting for the right moment. A recent skrentyz attack made the herd cautious, and the nightterror needs to be seen as unique and original to maintain the healthy levels of ego in its organism. It is often capable of waiting for days until it believes the herd forgot all about the incident, and then moves in for the kill.
We are lucky that there is a high concentration of humans in the thread, enough to occupy all of the nightterror's concentration, so it hopefully won't notice our filming crew. Human technology, other than computers, with which they have a symbiotic relation, irritates and frightens them, so they may leave, explode or realize it's not actually that bad.
Now we can see how the naive humans still think the nightterror is one of them and pay little attention to it. Soon it will... There! The female revealed herself and has already started draining the attention of the herd. The humans are shocked, as they never met any creature from the feministia internetus family, and their limited minds can barely cope with a predator of such agility and cunning.
See how it's heading straight for the herd's scientist, using the MTV argument and feasting on its confusion. A gruesome sight to some, yet nature is a cruel place and sometimes this is how it works. The scientist is helplessly stunned, while the rest of the herd tries to shake off the paralyzing stupidity of the nightterror's attacks; to no avail. It is a battle they cannot win.
It's a pity the herd was too easy a prey and the nightterror female didn't need to use its ultimate, gender-specific weapon, feminism. This tactic is said to be the pinnacle of the evolution of fail, and is a majestic sight to see. Wait here, I'll try to get closer to it and provoke it into starting an argument about gender equality...
Remember, I am a trained professional and this is extremely dangerous. If you ever encounter a nightterror in the wilderness yourself, quickly change the topic to Heroes VI, and always carry at least a QP or two with you, to bribe it into submission. Now, wish me luck...
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted March 26, 2012 06:30 PM |
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Then one year later - bump.
Since research about producing artificial meat have gained public interest, it made me wonder.
To any and all vegans/vegetarians/people in general who've considerations about eating meat:
What is your opinion about eating meat, given the meat is truely artificial produced, i.e. no life, sentient or non-sentient, were harmed or killed in the process? Would/wouldn't you eat it and why?
My own view have always been against the killing, not the eating, but I'd really like to think that with these new methods that maybe in some decades we at least won't have to kill sentient beings to get meat. I hope it means that in the future we'll stop killing altogether.
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gnomes2169
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
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posted March 27, 2012 05:41 AM |
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Well, I wouldn't trust my life to it yet (still in the bloody experimental phase you know, working out the kinks and such), but it could be interesting in the long run. And as much as I would love to expand on that thought, sleep beckons. Maybe tomorrow.
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
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Darkshadow
Legendary Hero
Cerise Princess
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posted March 27, 2012 06:44 AM |
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Don't see any problems in artificial meat.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted March 27, 2012 09:43 AM |
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Finland is much better!
Ok  The Bible prohibited the eating of blood, because the soul is blood, which the intellect, the God gave intellect to animals. Animals do not need to work on anything, God will keep them nourished. The Bible said that the later you pay the debt to God, if you still eat meat even though you avoid the blood. Yes, you will get to use dairy products, when flood led the "Ice Age", do you understand? Good! People are starting to eat meat etc such as the JollyJoker said. So, God brought the cream of wheat. Therefore, the original cow was a wild animal etc.
A man belonged to a group of animals. I've been thinking about an example of evolution, or aliens coming to country, and begin to produce human food, because their food reserves are in the final. For them, no problem, since we are stupid human animal like a same monkey. If a monkey can write etc We make monkey of slave.
I had tried to start vegetarian, it is not easy when I lose weight 20 kilogram. The wrong choice of food. Maybe later! Maybe the future is a better situation, such as DarkShadow has said. However, I do not purpose to eat poo, vegetable tastes better! 
Yeah, I like the birds and so sometimes I give food to those.
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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Darkshadow
Legendary Hero
Cerise Princess
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posted March 27, 2012 09:56 AM |
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A better question is, would you way Soylent Green?
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Shares
Supreme Hero
I am. Thusly I am.
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posted March 27, 2012 12:34 PM |
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Quote:
I can't speak for any other vegetarians, because I practically know only one other person that's also vegetarian, so I'll speak for myself.
Thank you for including this, even once. As a vegenterian I get a lot of opinions put in my mouth by vegetarian and omnivorous people alike. Most of the vegeterians are rather easygoing and we all look a bit awkwardly towards the few that preach "our righteous ways" and the "sins of the meat eater". This is all anecdotal evidence however (from my end), so I wouldn't trust it too much.
Now, I will simply tell you a bit about my situation, to avoid further prejudice or to at least let you know what labels to put on me. I am a vegetarian, but I've come to be kind of an odd one. I am politically active and I have plenty of friends and tonnes of acquaintances who are vegetarian and they all find my way a bit unusual.
As Corribus have preached, you must first actually identify what you believe, in more exact way. It's just not as binary to decide to eat meat or not. People have reasons and my reasons are plenty, but I know their limits and abide to them. I have seen the farms and I grew up on one. I have seen pigs be stacked in piles, drained from blood, crushed to a still living and beating pulp (that last one was a calf actually, but still), but I have also seen a few hundred cows contently and calmly chew some hay, laying on a warm, dry floor covered in straw as a blizzard rampaged outside. I know animals and I can tell when an animal is content, happy, sad or in pain, and I have seen both in farming. I know just how possible it is to have a farm with only happy animals and I know all of the limitations and expences that comes with it.
Seeing all of this I still see little fault in death, but then I must talk about death, must I not? Because death isn't always the same. Most people here seem to agree that death doesn't have a static moral attribute. Some say that the death of a human is bad and the death of a cow is very acceptable, but death isn't that binary either. If we decide to judge death by consciousness we get a scale, not binary queries. Much like the whole abortion-thing. We all seem to agree that abortions are murder after some point, and it all comes down to the relative question of when a human life starts? Some will say contra-ception, conception, some will say three months, some six and some even up to nine months (birht), but would it really be that much of a difference to say 12 months?
When does a conscious life start? Plankton? Bacteriae? Louse? Grass? Tree? Ant? Grasshopper? Slug? Frog? Trout? Rabbit? Cow? Dog? Macaque? Chimpanzee? Human child? Mentally impaired humans? Simply stupid humans?
Yeah, just try to put them in order of "consciousness" and you should run into a lot of hesitation and a lot of subjective guessing or assuming. So? Where is the line?
Well, there is none. The line is assumed, it is personal and it is purely subjective and it is blurry to the point of nonexistance for me. So, I've from this concluded that the way of death is more important than the death itself and more so, the life before the death is even more important. Even the motive is important. Most westerners seem to agree with this, without really knowing why and without getting there from any logical thinking.
So I find nothing inherintly wrong with eating meat. At all. Death is all rather acceptable, and I've embraced all this into my morals about humans as well. This means that all of my arguements are either bigger than the person (society) or highly contextual and varying (personal). So I do eat meat at times, even though I consider myself a vegetarian, and about here people tend to disagree and claim that it is highly binary, but it all comes down to your arguements and reasons.
My main reason is simply that I can think of no reasons to eat meat, except for the fact that it tastes good and that's subjective and propably a taught and socially enforced opinion. I, along with most westerners, grew up with meat being the luxary in the meal. You got your vegtebles and potatoes because "they are healthy" and "they make you full" and "they are cheap" and the meat is there for taste. Of course we learn to think that meat is tasty. Besides, it's not like there's tasty vegetarian food as well. It's kind of an empty arguement in any bigger picture, but... I am not the bigger picture. I'm a single individual and I do like meat, regardless of the reasons, and I will thus consider meat a thing I should avoid by principle, but eat as an extra luxury to myself. Like getting some fancy cheese or a bag of candy for yourself.
The second reason I ever eat meat is because it's convenient. If I end up at a burger place with a few place I can order a vegetarian hamburger, but there's usually only one option available and it will take 15-20 minutes to get, so as I get my burger my friend will already be close to finished and I will have quenched my appetite with fries. So I get a meaty burger. This also goes for when I'm offered food. I won't turn down a meal because of meat. Was at my parents this weekend, and my values shouldn't be an inconvenience to them, now should they? So I had some excellent beef.
Now the second reason I'm a vegetarian is 'cause it's cheaper. No, I'm not talking about personal economics, since that's pretty much the same in the end. The cheapest meatincluding diet will be about the same as the cheapest vegetarian one, but the meaty one will actually be a tad bit more nutritious, and it's usually for the cheapest diets the personal economic reason matters. If I have more money to spend on food, it's of course different, but the arguement that it's a tad bit cheaper won't matter as much. I'm talking about efficiency in larger scales. I remember seeing a calculation that simply showed that Sweden could triple it's production of food by not producing meat, without changing the ammount of land used for growing crops. This would also leave a lot of empty pasture grounds empty, open for more crops. This would make for cheaper food and certainly things like variety would be accounted for if this was implemented into society and since it's more efficient it's better for the enviroment and a lot of crops are easier to transport over long distances and easier to preserve. So I simply see it as a vastly superior for society as a whole, but society wide changes aren't enforced by single individuals, and I am one, so this is also a "most of the time" arguement.
The third reason is a defined sympathy arguement, so that's clearly personal. I have seen the industry and it is a lot of the time rather horrible. Most people will argue that this only goes for a few farms and that civilised countries have very little to no of it and only backwards, uneducated, underdeveloped, etc. countries have this in any larger scales, but that is rather naive. Sweden is one of the most develop countries in the world, with state of the art technology in many areas and with quite fertile and abundant land and with a strongly established animal rights movement, very clear and "good" animal rights laws and rules and quite abundant controls and yet this systematical abuse exists even here. I have seen it and I have seen statistics again and again that suggests that isn't nearly as rare as westerners tend to think. I've decided that I'd rather not support this industry. I still see nothing inherintly wrong with eating meat, but I'll try not to support the industry, but industries aren't swayed by the single individual either, so this also allows for exceptions, and growing up on the country I know a lot of hunters and can usually get some "happy" meat, but this means that the hunters need to buy meat instead and we're back at square one (the industry doesn't care if it's me or Mr Johansson that buys meat at the store). I do get some eggs from my parents though, since they get more than they can use right now.
There are also a bunch of minor reasons, such as health, but they are just minor and don't matter that much or vary to much to be useful.
This is how I argue and how I think as a vegetarian. This would mean that grown meat would just slightly affect my stance. My sympathy arguement would be invalid, sure, but depending on how efficient it could ever become I may not care much for it.
Now, I'd love to hear some arguements as for why I should eat meat and why our society should eat meat, apart from the typical "it's tasty", the "it doesn't matter" or the "it's natural"-arguements. All these are usually very shallow and ignorant (except the "don't matter" one, which can be quite sophisticated and insightful (like JJs)).
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted March 27, 2012 02:06 PM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 14:07, 27 Mar 2012.
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I wonder what does "animal rights" mean exactly? I'm asking because of a funny story that I read on a news site a while ago (funny for me, I like black humour, some vegetarians may find it horrible). The thing is that the price of the eggs is astronomically high in my country at the moment and Easter is coming which makes the things worse. When asked what is the reason for these outrageous prices, the farmers answered: "Well, there's this EU regulation according to which we have to breed only "happy" animals, which means blah-blah, in short their well-being is pretty expensive and we can't afford it. So for the last few years the number of the hens has been decreasing *cough-cough* (meaning that we've been killing them) from some 9 million in 2007 to just above 2 million today. Less hens = less eggs = more expensive eggs." So, in Hollywood terms, 7 million hens sacrificed themselves to make the remaining 2 million happy (well, sort of). Sounds a bit... hm.
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Tsar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted March 27, 2012 02:10 PM |
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I'm pretty sure I've read some retarded EU regulation about fishing aswell, (fisherman have to throw out 2/3rds of the fish they catch or something like that) Read it a few years back so you'll have to excuse my lack of precision.
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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Shares
Supreme Hero
I am. Thusly I am.
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posted March 27, 2012 02:20 PM |
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Most of the EU regulations are either passed to raise the bar for the "bad" members, which ends up being a very, very low bar for the "good" ones or they are aimed to fix a very specific problem. There are however issues when you pass a very general and Europe wide regulation to fix a very specific problem or a problem that doesn't exist in all of Europe.
Then there the regulations that are just... uhm... stupid (like the banana-shape or landfish one(though I did manage to figure out a reason for the landfish one)).
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GunFred
Supreme Hero
Sexy Manticore
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posted March 28, 2012 09:27 AM |
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Shares, did your fingers hurt after that huge post above? I really envy people with writing skill.
Sweden seems to be an awesome country. I would love to travel there someday and perhaps even move there if I am worthy. What a glorious nation Sweden is.
About meat, it is perfectly natural and moral to eat meat and I doubt that I could ever give it up but animal cruelty is unacceptable. We breed animals just so we can kill and feed on them so the least we can do for the animals would be to let them live as good lives as possible (by animal standards) with our technology. This artificial meat thing is awesome and I would not hesitate to try it out and neither should anyone else who does not want to stick with animal killing.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted March 28, 2012 10:00 AM |
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Finland is better! The Swedish Food brought us some piece of glass, Sweden the employee cant not a trusted. Finnish food is very accurate, we can not accepting its terms animal cruelty and dirty eating. But Swedish people love food. I went to Sweden, I paid 50 SEK effort rye bread in hotel. A great place for a restaurant I ate a small portion. Funny also offers a breakfast meatballs and sausage in hotel. But nice was..
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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Shares
Supreme Hero
I am. Thusly I am.
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posted March 28, 2012 12:48 PM |
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Quote:
Shares, did your fingers hurt after that huge post above? I really envy people with writing skill.
Sweden seems to be an awesome country. I would love to travel there someday and perhaps even move there if I am worthy. What a glorious nation Sweden is.
I think that's a compliment, so thanks.
Quote:
About meat, it is perfectly natural and moral to eat meat and I doubt that I could ever give it up but animal cruelty is unacceptable. We breed animals just so we can kill and feed on them so the least we can do for the animals would be to let them live as good lives as possible (by animal standards) with our technology. This artificial meat thing is awesome and I would not hesitate to try it out and neither should anyone else who does not want to stick with animal killing.
Natural isn't an arguement and morals are just an opinion. I still agree though.
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted March 28, 2012 03:12 PM |
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Come on, guys. Try to at least stay close to the topic. Thread cleaned. Again.
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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