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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: Right to Self Defense, Gun Ownership, and Deterence of Crime
Thread: Right to Self Defense, Gun Ownership, and Deterence of Crime This thread is 55 pages long: 1 10 20 30 ... 34 35 36 37 38 ... 40 50 55 · «PREV / NEXT»
Seraphim
Seraphim


Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
posted January 08, 2013 09:15 PM

Quote:

What are the odds of the situation actually allowing you to use them? Isn't it better to spend that money on preventing that from happening? Of course if you have unlimited funds you may as well buy a gun, or a personal bodyguard, but I'm being pragmatic here.



You are right, but setting up an electric fence, an alarm, barred windows, reinforced doors and bullet proof vests costs a lot more.

Its certainly easier to get a gun and scream around to everybody "Hey, I got a gun" and put signs "Dedicated gun owner". But it seems that robbers in the US are quite bold.
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Doomforge
Doomforge


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posted January 08, 2013 09:32 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 21:32, 08 Jan 2013.

Quote:
Its certainly easier to get a gun and scream around to everybody "Hey, I got a gun" and put signs "Dedicated gun owner". But it seems that robbers in the US are quite bold.


it's easier, but where does it lead to? People get mugged mostly on the street, not at home. homes get mostly robbed when the owners are away, and not inside. And even when we talk about that "home assault" (sounds like a siege, lol): The point is to repel the criminals, not to get in some sort of pistol duel with them, which Elodin seems to advocate so much. Honestly, a fake camera for 5 bucks placed in a visible spot would probably work better than a shotgun in your cabinet that nobody knows about.
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Seraphim
Seraphim


Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
posted January 08, 2013 10:41 PM
Edited by Seraphim at 12:49, 10 Jan 2013.

A joke of why using guns while overreacting  is a bad idea


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Elodin
Elodin


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posted January 17, 2013 06:38 PM

Watch a homeowner stop his home from being robbed for the third time, with the help of his trusty shotgun.

Clicky
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OhforfSake
OhforfSake


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posted January 17, 2013 06:58 PM

Look at how he can't hold back his smile on two occasions, that's just adorable!

He's like "grabbed my shotgun... and! and! ehh"

Meanwhile, in another country, the unarmed guy calls the police, tells where the burglar is, and within a few minutes the arrest is made without the need to point a loaded shotgun at anyone.

Now, just for a second, let's imagine there were more than one criminal, and both of them were armed. It'd be suicidal to run out with a loaded shotgun in such a case, especially if they were desperate. On the other hand, calling the police doesn't change the situation for the civilian.
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Salamandre
Salamandre


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posted January 17, 2013 07:38 PM
Edited by Salamandre at 20:31, 17 Jan 2013.

Rofl, the only reason he didn't shoot is coz his expensive plasma TV was blocking the angle. The time he thinks "his death will cost me 3000 bucks" the burglar gave up. Morale for burglars: always put between you and armed home owner expensive goods, preferably TV.
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Doomforge
Doomforge


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posted January 21, 2013 01:26 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 13:27, 21 Jan 2013.

That guy is a reason why some Americans have pretty bad image over the world. I mean, just listen to him...

Reminds me of the "grab my gun" line from DBZ Abridged Parody episode 1.

Genius, Farmer. GENIUS.
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Elodin
Elodin


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posted January 21, 2013 09:19 PM
Edited by Elodin at 21:20, 21 Jan 2013.

Quote:
That guy is a reason why some Americans have pretty bad image over the world. I mean, just listen to him...

Reminds me of the "grab my gun" line from DBZ Abridged Parody episode 1.

Genius, Farmer. GENIUS.


Yeah, it seems most Europeans are of the opinion that everyone should let the criminals do what they want and take what they want because they have no right to defend themselves, loved ones, or their property.  The homeowner had already been robbed a couple of times. Liberals so, so what?  The "robber" is obviously poor and oppressed, just a victim of society, and the homeowner is not the victim, he is actually to blame for keeping the robber down. The "robber" is just there to get what is "rightfully his." Economic justice.

Of course conservative believe in the right to self defense and that one has the right to preserve his property.  Thankfully, in Texas you can defend yourself and your property with lethal force.
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Zenofex
Zenofex


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Kreegan-atheist
posted January 21, 2013 09:34 PM

... and posts like the above make the same liberal European criminal-lovers view Texas as some sort of a zoo.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


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Wog refugee
posted January 21, 2013 10:12 PM

Hmm, is Zeno insulting European zoos? Specify please.
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Doomforge
Doomforge


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posted January 21, 2013 10:26 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 22:33, 21 Jan 2013.

Quote:
Yeah, it seems most Europeans are of the opinion that everyone should let the criminals do what they want and take what they want because they have no right to defend themselves, loved ones, or their property.


yes, that's why we get robbed every day, except not

And sure, there's murder everywhere in Europe, except that you got 1200+ people murdered in Texas state alone (25 milion people) in 2010 and, like, 690 or something murdered in WHOLE GERMANY (over 80 million people) in the same year

But sure, having a shotgun makes you bulletproof, knifeproof and thief-proof, too bad neither statistics, nor common sense supports that theory.

So I really suggest that you leave Europe out of your liberal-conservative binary logic, we don't even follow that here
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angelito
angelito


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posted January 22, 2013 09:42 PM

Let it be Doom...Elodin NEVER answers to thoses statistics because they don't fit in his view of the world.

He will NEVER answer why no other modern country has a similar murderer rate than the USA.

To his logic, all states who do NOT allow firearms for all people to defend themselves and their houses should have millions of burglars, rapes and murderers every year, because all bad guys GET their weapons, while the good people don't have access to weapons.

But reality shows completely different....hmmm...why?

Yawn.....
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GunFred
GunFred


Supreme Hero
Sexy Manticore
posted January 22, 2013 09:52 PM

The best gun is a GunFred...
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GunFred
GunFred


Supreme Hero
Sexy Manticore
posted January 23, 2013 12:35 AM

Google translated swedish news...

Quote:
Three people shot injured at a university in Texas, then two people are believed to have ended up in trouble.

The campus was evacuated immediately.

The shooting occurred at the University Lone Star College near Houston on Tuesday afternoon. The local television station KHOU reported that a perpetrator was among the three who was shot and that he was removed from school libraries, locked with handcuffs on a stretcher.

The school's principal said after the attack that the shooting incident likely triggered by an altercation between two people.

- Initial reports suggest that it was a fight between two people and two students met in the shooting, said Principal Jed Young.

Police were looking for another perpetrator, but the person suspected to no longer be on campus.

Much of the campus was evacuated immediately after the shooting incident.

The latest event in firearms at a school occurs while President Barack Obama calls for stricter gun laws and increased background check. Obama hopes to get support in Congress for change, which is a direct response to the school massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School in the state of Connecticut on December 14.

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Elodin
Elodin


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posted January 23, 2013 02:03 AM
Edited by Elodin at 02:07, 23 Jan 2013.

Quote:
Quote:
Yeah, it seems most Europeans are of the opinion that everyone should let the criminals do what they want and take what they want because they have no right to defend themselves, loved ones, or their property.


yes, that's why we get robbed every day, except not

And sure, there's murder everywhere in Europe, except that you got 1200+ people murdered in Texas state alone (25 milion people) in 2010 and, like, 690 or something murdered in WHOLE GERMANY (over 80 million people) in the same year

But sure, having a shotgun makes you bulletproof, knifeproof and thief-proof, too bad neither statistics, nor common sense supports that theory.

So I really suggest that you leave Europe out of your liberal-conservative binary logic, we don't even follow that here


Of course Texas is twice the size of Germany and is a border state.  Due to loony liberals in Congress and a loony liberal president Texas is not allowed to protect its border adequately and the federal government run by loony liberals refuses to do its Constitutional duty to protect the border. Years ago Congress approved building a border fence but loony liberals have blocked that.

Of course the founding fathers, unlike liberals, believed everyone had a natural right to defend himself.  They also knew the government can't be trusted, unlike liberals who worship, desire, and need an all-powerful government to tell them when to wipe their butt, what light bulb to use, what car to drive, what to eat, and to magically defend them against someone who has just invaded their home.  Unfortunately for liberals, magic is in the realm of fantasy.

Real murder rate

Quote:

What's the murder rate in America, per capita? Right now it's 0.042 per 1,000, ranking us 24th in the world, behind Colombia (0.617 per thousand -- the missing zero after the decimal point means Colombia's rate is fifteen times ours), South Africa at 0.496, Jamaica at 0.324, Venezuela at 0.316, Russia at 0.201 and Mexico at 0.130, among others.

Your American drug war money proudly at work.

Now take four or five European countries, where "sensible gun control laws" have made it nearly impossible for the typical working-class citizen to own a personal self-defense or military-style firearm for the past century. Let's choose Germany, France, Poland, Russia and the Ukraine.

What's the murder rate for those countries for the past century?

Because they were disarmed by their own governments and thus unable to resist Hitler's Einsatzgruppen, Stalin's NKVD and starvation brigades and the gentle ways of the rest of the Wehrmacht and the Red Army when it comes to "treatment of non-combatants in conquered territories," at least 30 million civilians were murdered in those four countries from 1929 to 1945.

We're excluding the "normal" deaths caused by uniformed soldiers killing each other in times of war, and pretending there were no other murders in those countries from 1910-2010. But even though we've left aside people killed when they were in uniform, that averages out to 300,000 murders of civilians per year for the past century in Germany, France, Poland, Russia and the Ukraine, combined.

Last year, there were 16,204 murders in America, which has a current population of about 312 million, compared to a population of 373 million for Germany, France, Poland, Russia and the Ukraine combined.

In fact, there were a thousand murders reported in France last year alone (Do they batter each other with baguettes?) There were 4,400 in Ukraine, for a per capita rate there of 0.094, more than twice America's rate.


An average of 300,000 murders per year with "admirably strict gun control," versus 16,000 murders per year in a cowboy nation with "ridiculously little gun control." Hm.


....

What's that? It's all ancient history? Nothing like that has happened anywhere for the past 65 years?

How many millions of unarmed Chinamen did Mao Tse-Tung murder in the 1950s? How many millions of unarmed Cambodians did Pol Pot murder in the 1970s, including every schoolteacher, every Cambodian who wore eyeglasses?

See the chart at http://jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/deathgc.htm#chart. (There's a hyphen on either side of the "a".) Please.


Cherry-picking a few peaceful decades in Denmark or Luxembourg because said nations are currently between genocides is not very convincing proof that you're safer, in the long run, if you encourage your own government to bar you from owning any useful military or self-defense weaponry while the guvgoons practice their Kevlar-swaddled "dynamic entry techniques" by day and by night.


....

Time and again, by a factor of hundreds of thousands, your most likely murderer is the government you trusted to keep you safe.

"The great object is that every man be armed; everyone who is able may have a gun." (Patrick Henry)
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Vindicator
Vindicator


Supreme Hero
Right Back Extraordinaire
posted January 23, 2013 02:25 AM

What are that's guy sources? Because my source disagrees with you. Like, completely.
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OhforfSake
OhforfSake


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posted January 23, 2013 03:08 AM

His sources has nothing to do with fire arms. His post has nothing to do with fire arms.
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DagothGares
DagothGares


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No gods or kings
posted January 23, 2013 03:14 AM

Well, Vindicator's list also includes "homicides" as a separate category from "gun-related deaths."
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Vindicator
Vindicator


Supreme Hero
Right Back Extraordinaire
posted January 23, 2013 03:22 AM
Edited by Vindicator at 03:23, 23 Jan 2013.

Also, if we're talking just about homicide rate, I have that as well.


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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted January 23, 2013 07:38 AM
Edited by artu at 07:41, 23 Jan 2013.

I know people have a tendency to stretch logic and do wishful thinking but you have to be really thick to compare every day crime and mass murders of dictators. It's as dumb as saying if Japanese had shotguns they could fight back during Hiroshima. Unlike your founding fathers, we don't live in the 18th century and that kind of gun ownership means absolutely nothing if the government decides to wipe you out. So unless you also approve of the ordinary citizen to own an air force, nuclear power, submarines etc etc. those two has nothing to do with each other.



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