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| Thread: Good people come in all colors and shapes... |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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gnomes2169
Honorable
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Duke of the Glade
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posted May 24, 2011 01:23 AM |
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100% logical posts consisting of 25% quoting of non-biased sources proving his position, 50% elucidation of his position, and 25% rebuttal of incorrect opinions of others.
Fox and the bible aren't un-biased. 
And just because the opinions of others are different from yours, doesn't mean that they are wrong.
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Gnomes2169: A nubling who is still learning to ignore Elodin's constant bashing of his political intrests and flaming brilliant posts. An optimist who posts 40% opinionated, 25% theoretical (Based on observed human nature) and 35% personal experience posts, resulting in hard-to follow, convoluted or sometimes wrong statements.
Actually, that's how you fix that one. 
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
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Nocturnal
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted May 24, 2011 01:46 AM |
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"I have God. I'm one of the richest men on this earth, 'cause I have God," he said. "Money is not my master. That's what's wrong with this world: money is its master."
That's where the story ends for me and its charm. I know many want to object even now to me but please try to drop your swords as I'm not going to attack.
I don't deny what this man did/does is good. Of course I appriciate his act and find it nice. But for me that's not genuine goodness or thankfullness. If this man was an atheist and did the same thing, than he would be a genuinely good person.
Because as he himself says he is a believer. He believes his God will reward him accordingly for the good things he does. If he didn't believe that, if he would believe that there will be no heaven or hell, and so no justice to be assured by any God, if he believed all good he will ever do won't assure repayment to him from any God, if he believed there is no soul, we are just these bodies and when we rot underground or burnt everything will be over and in these circumstances he did the same, then I would call this a genuine goodness.
So again, his move is a nice one. But nothing near genuine.
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Smithey
Promising
Supreme Hero
Yes im red, choke on it !!!
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posted May 24, 2011 01:55 AM |
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Edited by Smithey at 06:58, 24 May 2011.
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Here are a couple of quotes by some dudes and girls who had more to say on the subject than me LOL
Random acts of Kindness
Well, Elodin, maybe I don't agree with everything gnomes said, but yeah, you do have a narrow minded way of thinking, instead of investigating and trying to understand both sides of the discussion you just choose the side that suits your well patterned scheme.
I don't know how old you are, but there is one universal truth in this life, we can always learn new things and evolve our way of thinking, you sort of finished your "thinking evolution", a bit sad, but your life....
@ Nocturnal So basically (not attacking you, just trying to understand) you believe that a religious man can't be a genuinely good man ?
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gnomes2169
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Duke of the Glade
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posted May 24, 2011 02:07 AM |
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@ Nocturnal: Jesus.
Gandhi.
Rebuttal?
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
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Warlord
Famous Hero
Lord of Image Spam
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posted May 24, 2011 02:08 AM |
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Since when is gnomes trolling Elodin?
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 24, 2011 02:27 AM |
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Fauch: Pointing out incinsitancies, 50% slightly pessemistic, 50% slightly optimistic.
sounds like I'm quite balanced
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gnomes2169
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
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posted May 24, 2011 02:30 AM |
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Fauch: Pointing out inconsistencies, 50% slightly pessimistic, 50% slightly optimistic.
sounds like I'm quite balanced
That's just what I see. *Shrugs*
@ Warlord: You've been out of the loop for a while now, haven't you?
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
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Nocturnal
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted May 24, 2011 07:00 AM |
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So basically (not attacking you, just trying to understand) you believe that a religious man can't be a genuinely good man ?
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The sentence is that "I cannot believe a religious person doing good for just to do a good thing." I cannot say I'm right, you cannot say I'm wrong. There is no proof to gather as the only proof would be if the same person would live in a parallel universe as an atheist which is just a fantasy.
If one day, unfortunately I won't see that day, science advances so far that they prove that God (by God I mean any God in any holy book, not talking about a creative force) doesn't exist, then the real humanity and the genuine goodness in people will be seen.
This doing good for a reward from God is the reason why most people do not like non-believers. Because they think as I don't believe in a God, I will commit bad deeds and am a bad person because I have no need to do good in their minds as their reason is the "Promised Land" of Heaven. Which shows that without this reason they would not commit any good as they believe a person without that reason (a non-believer) would not.
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gnomes2169
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
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posted May 24, 2011 07:11 AM |
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@ Noc: You just opened up a can of worms so deep and decomposed...
Just ignore the expected Elodin rant. It will come. Very soon.
Edit: Or, you cold run. Very fast. In some direction that promotes the life of your sanity the longest.
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted May 24, 2011 07:13 AM |
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Edited by markkur at 07:17, 24 May 2011.
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"I have God. I'm one of the richest men on this earth, 'cause I have God," he said. [b]"Money is not my master. That's what's wrong with this world: money is its master."[/b]
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That's where the story ends for me and its charm. I know many want to object even now to me but please try to drop your swords as I'm not going to attack.
I don't deny what this man did/does is good. Of course I appriciate his act and find it nice. But for me that's not genuine goodness or thankfullness. If this man was an atheist and did the same thing, than he would be a genuinely good person.
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1. Because as he himself says he is a believer.
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2. He believes his God will reward him accordingly for the good things he does. If he didn't believe that, if he would believe that there will be no heaven or hell, and so no justice to be assured by any God,
Why would you make a judgement like that? Because he said #1, you State #2 for him?
You are NOT able to know that man. All you can do is believe he means what he said and you quoted it. Within that quote is not a drop about "your beliefs about him" or your expectations as to what motivates another person. Please see that "you believe" that is what Christianity is all about.
You do not treasure what he seems to but I do and I know what he meant by that quote because it did not originate from him.. I put in red <IMO> the most important thing that leads him and that's only because "he is doing what he has learned and not serving two masters". <IMO> (because of a shared road) "That statement is about rewards within his heart right here and now.I know of no person, no matter "what they believe" that would see a reward-trail like that as something desirable. I guess, it is detestable to most people.
I will say no more because <IMO> this should not become a religion thread, because I doubt that was the thread-starters intent. Surely you have your own do-good story to share that you've lived or heard?
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"Do your own research"
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted May 24, 2011 07:17 AM |
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So basically (not attacking you, just trying to understand) you believe that a religious man can't be a genuinely good man ?
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The sentence is that "I cannot believe a religious person doing good for just to do a good thing." I cannot say I'm right, you cannot say I'm wrong.
I can say you are 100% wrong. I am a religious person and I do good for because I want to. The sacrifice of Christ is my salvation, not any good deeds I do. I do good because I love people.
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If one day, unfortunately I won't see that day, science advances so far that they prove that God (by God I mean any God in any holy book, not talking about a creative force) doesn't exist, then the real humanity and the genuine goodness in people will be seen.
Oh, please. Every officially atheist nation that has ever existed has been a cesspool of mass murder and suppression of basic human rights. People of theistic religions are more charitable to their fellow man than the "non-religious" are.
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This doing good for a reward from God is the reason why most people do not like non-believers. Because they think as I don't believe in a God, I will commit bad deeds and am a bad person because I have no need to do good in their minds as their reason is the "Promised Land" of Heaven. Which shows that without this reason they would not commit any good as they believe a person without that reason (a non-believer) would not.
Sorry, but you are wrong. You have some rather bizarre views about religious people. But you have done a good job of emulating Dawkins.
I've always said atheists can be moral people even though the religion of atheism and the concept of morality and immorality are in opposition to each other. If there is no God then right and wrong are merely someone's opinions and there are no moral or immoral people.
As I stated above, I do good because of my love for people, not to earn my salvation. Jesus is my only plea of righteousness. Nothing I have ever done or could ever do would be enough to earn my salvation.
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Revelation
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gnomes2169
Honorable
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Duke of the Glade
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posted May 24, 2011 07:19 AM |
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^You were warned^
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
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Smithey
Promising
Supreme Hero
Yes im red, choke on it !!!
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posted May 24, 2011 07:19 AM |
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Edited by Smithey at 07:23, 24 May 2011.
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Sorry Noc, but you can't prove goodness of any person alive regardless of them being religious or not. The argument that believing in god somehow erases your entire personality is ridiculous to me  , religious people are just like us people hence they come in all shapes and colors, some of them are good people others bad people.
Believing that everything people do is to please god is IMO your way of dehumanizing religious people becuase you feel mistreated by them.
I have no idea where you're from but I live in a very religious country, I don't believe in god nor like religious people however nobody ever assumed I would be bad or good because of my non belief, people will judge you by your actions as it should be, that's why I suggest you give everybody the benefit of the doubt instead of labeling them by their beliefs
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Nocturnal
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted May 24, 2011 08:00 AM |
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Oh, please. Every officially atheist nation that has ever existed has been a cesspool of mass murder and suppression of basic human rights. People of theistic religions are more charitable to their fellow man than the "non-religious" are.
I seriously cannot believe in a world, the past of which had a myriad of wars caused by only religion and still now causes these same wars, and also in the present still has people -in the sole name of religion- who explode themselves with bombs just to kill the other people around, who hang young people because they are gay, who slits the throats of people because they are from another religion, who circumcise young girls, you could, without any shame, compare the suppression of human rights by atheistic people with the suppression done by religious people.
But the point I give up on you comes when with the intentional mistake you put in saying "atheistic religion" you prove how you respect other people. I was not warned about you in vain, it seems. You can argue more about what I said, I will ignore what you write completely. This is what I do in my daily life who are devoid of the mere respect for the other person in arguments.
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Sorry Noc, but you can't prove goodness of any person alive regardless of them being religious or not. The argument that believing in god somehow erases your entire personality is ridiculous to me , religious people are just like us people hence they come in all shapes and colors, some of them are good people others bad people.
Believing that everything people do is to please god is IMO your way of dehumanizing religious people becuase you feel mistreated by them.
I have no idea where you're from but I live in a very religious country, I don't believe in god nor like religious people however nobody ever assumed I would be bad or good because of my non belief, people will judge you by your actions as it should be, that's why I suggest you give everybody the benefit of the doubt instead of labeling them by their beliefs
I'm from Turkey. Although it is hard for me to do, as I live in this ... place, I try to give everyone the benefit of a doubt, that's why I say "most religious people" everytime in my sentences not "all religious people" And believe me, I don't intend to prove anything, these were just my thoughts on the subject. Peace.
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Doomforge
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Retired Hero
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posted May 24, 2011 09:09 AM |
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DF:
What do you think would happen if you lived in a reasonably rich country (or one with natural resources) that wasn't protected by any military (whether its own or another country's)?
It's pointless to wonder because:
1. If a group of people in all countries don't pay, nothing changes, the military just gets few tanks less
2. If ALL people don't pay, no country has an army.
What you erroneously picture is just two completely opposite scenarios: everybody pays+every country is armed to teeth or NOBODY pays and it's JUST your country that has little or none army.
Besides countries without armies exist, they are not the biggest I agree but still they do, for example Costa Rica, true it has only 5 million people but it does exist without military so both yours and Elodins arguments are at least partially wrong even for exaggerated scenario of no army + armed to teeth neighbors. See any costa rica raids or whatever?
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 24, 2011 01:50 PM |
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well, even if your country was taken over by another one (since you have no army to defend, I guess there should be no war, unless civilians would rather die than surrender) would the situation necessarily become worse for people of this country?
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I've always said atheists can be moral people even though the religion of atheism and the concept of morality and immorality are in opposition to each other. If there is no God then right and wrong are merely someone's opinions and there are no moral or immoral people.
isn't it the case actually, even among religious people?
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted May 24, 2011 02:46 PM |
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I seriously cannot believe in a world, the past of which had a myriad of wars caused by only religion and still now causes these same wars, and also in the present still has people -in the sole name of religion- who explode themselves with bombs just to kill the other people around, who hang young people because they are gay, who slits the throats of people because they are from another religion, who circumcise young girls, you could, without any shame, compare the suppression of human rights by atheistic people with the suppression done by religious people.
The vast majority of wars have been conducted over land and resources. Over the course of the past 100 years atheist tyrants (such as Mao, Pol Pot, Lenin, Stalin,ect) have been responsible for the deaths of over 250 million people. Far, far more than all other religions combined for all of recorded history.
Your claim that only atheists are good people is a load of crap.
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But the point I give up on you comes when with the intentional mistake you put in saying "atheistic religion" you prove how you respect other people.
Your posts about religious people show total disrespect and obvious lies. Atheism is a religion, and has been ruled to be so by the US Supreme Court. Especially Dawkinite atheists who constantly attack the religion of others.
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted May 24, 2011 03:45 PM |
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Am I the only one who has no idea what this thread is even supposed to be about?
@DF
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Besides countries without armies exist, they are not the biggest I agree but still they do, for example Costa Rica, true it has only 5 million people but it does exist without military so both yours and Elodins arguments are at least partially wrong even for exaggerated scenario of no army + armed to teeth neighbors. See any costa rica raids or whatever?
Countries without standing militaries effectively rely on the militaries of other nations to protect them. Land itself is a valuable resource and would, in a vacuum, be reason enough to invade a defenseless nation. The reason Costa Rica hasn't been invaded and taken over is because there would be international consequences - likely military - to any country that did so. Costa Rica knows that if, for example, Columbia invaded them, Columbia would likely face drastic trade embargos at the least, and possibly a full-scale military retaliation by the US and the UN at the most. Small countries like Costa Rica can have the luxury of not having a military because there are other big giants that would protect them should their borders be violated - because it would be in the national interests of the big giants to do so. Costa Rica isn't defenseless - it has the US and UN to look after it, so it doesn't NEED a military. There's no charity at work here - come on, DF, you're too smart to rely on such a weak example-argument like this.
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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shyranis
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posted May 24, 2011 03:58 PM |
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Yes, my responses we deleted at some point, then I guess people stopped caring.
Funny thing though in that my posts also contained information that was on topic or requests that we all head back onto topic. *shrug*
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JollyJoker
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posted May 24, 2011 04:18 PM |
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Am I the only one who has no idea what this thread is even supposed to be about?
No. It seems that a couple of threads have somehow merged into one big BLAH, with a couple of people reiterating their favorite credos.
Dirt that we tread isn't hardened but spread...
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