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| Thread: Good people come in all colors and shapes... |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV |
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Doomforge
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posted May 24, 2011 05:29 PM |
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@Cor
I am aware of that. Point however was - brought by Mvass and Elodin - that a country NEEDS an army, desperately, or invasion is unavoidable. Which is wrong. This of course doesn't mean Costa Rica is defenseless or something - it's merely pointing out that actually there are army-less countries. Not an example to follow or something.
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Corribus
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posted May 24, 2011 05:40 PM |
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I think the point is that every country needs some means of defense of its territorial integrity. Some countries get around needing a standing army by essentially relying on someone else's army. Unfortunately, bigger countries don't really have that luxury.
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Doomforge
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posted May 24, 2011 05:42 PM |
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Which I agree with. I don't see a reason to force declared pacifists into "obviously obvious tax money for moar tanks". If it's freedom we're after, even in Elective Oligarchy it can actually have some meaning.
to mimic Elodin - so tiresome when leftist Marxist US government steals Americans' money to build more tanks.
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bLiZzArdbOY
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posted May 24, 2011 05:55 PM |
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It would be an ungodly costly administrative and bureaucratic nightmare of red tape trying to sort out every unique butterflies demands for where they think their taxes should be going. It's simply not realistic. If you're mad at how your money is being spent, the fight needs to be taken in Congress.
Countries that have no standing army all have something in common. 1) They're insignificant specks that nobody gives a **** about, and 2) If some distant power came to their shores, they'd be ****ed either way. A lot of them also use the US navy as sellswords, so they're not actually defenseless.
It doesn't matter if the U.S. sat in a turtle shell in the dark for the past century, when you make up 30% of the world's GDP, there is no such thing as not attracting attention. An elephant sitting in the corner of a room with its head tucked underneath a pillow is still extremely visible.
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Doomforge
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posted May 24, 2011 05:57 PM |
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I'm not arguing that army is useful or useless. I believe in charity. I believe people should be able to pay for their country's defense and not have their money stolen by Marxist government contrary to their will.
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shyranis
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posted May 24, 2011 06:29 PM |
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It's nice to see people being nice to others, regardless of race, class, gender, religious affiliation, etc.
It's also generally agreed that everybody should strive to at least lean towards such attitudes.
The worst people among us tend to be very vocal however, and paint a very negative picture of an overall morally fine society.
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mvassilev
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posted May 24, 2011 07:19 PM |
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Quote:
I am aware of that. Point however was - brought by Mvass and Elodin - that a country NEEDS an army, desperately, or invasion is unavoidable.
If you read my posts, I also wrote about countries that are protected by others.
Quote:
I believe people should be able to pay for their country's defense and not have their money stolen by Marxist government contrary to their will.
You think there are only two kinds of people:
1. People who want defense and would pay for it, and
2. People who don't care about defense and wouldn't pay for it.
When in fact there would be a third kind:
3. People who want defense but wouldn't pay for it.
These people would be willing to pay for defense if they wouldn't get it - but if people in group 1 are paying, why would the people in group 3 want to? The problem with defense is that everyone benefits from it regardless of whether they pay for it. Left to the free market, the amount provided would be less than the amount desired if the externality was internalized. That's why the best way to fund defense is with theft.
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Doomforge
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posted May 24, 2011 07:29 PM |
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Relax. I'm well aware of that. I was merely making fun of Elodin's "freedom of theft" ideology
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bLiZzArdbOY
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posted May 24, 2011 07:36 PM |
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Quote:
It's nice to see people being nice to others, regardless of race, class, gender, religious affiliation, etc.
It's also generally agreed that everybody should strive to at least lean towards such attitudes.
The worst people among us tend to be very vocal however, and paint a very negative picture of an overall morally fine society.
The most vocal people are the people that are ever-so-confident that they hold infinite wisdom in their hands; non-coincidentally, this brazen confidence generally decreases the more sagely a person becomes and they think twice before they go into labor whenever their ideas are challenged. That's the difference between a book club forum and a YouTube comments section.
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Fauch
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posted May 24, 2011 07:47 PM |
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Quote:
It's nice to see people being nice to others, regardless of race, class, gender, religious affiliation, etc.
It's also generally agreed that everybody should strive to at least lean towards such attitudes.
The worst people among us tend to be very vocal however, and paint a very negative picture of an overall morally fine society.
french people are always complaining about how everyone is so bad and constantly manipulating others for their own profit and how they are poor innocent people mistreated by those people.
sounds like 99% of people are scums, but I guess they don't have internet, because all the people who post, are saints XD
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Elodin
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posted May 24, 2011 08:40 PM |
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Edited by Elodin at 20:41, 24 May 2011.
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Relax. I'm well aware of that. I was merely making fun of Elodin's "freedom of theft" ideology
What, because I don't believe in your "free ride" philosophy? I don't think anyone (other than my family) has the right to kick back and demand that I make a living for them. You apparently do. Marxism vs common decency. Marxists think they should have "freedom of theft", I don't. I had never used that phrase by the way, but I kind of like it. Thanks, I'll use it frequently now.
Oh, and about national defense, I've said a number of times that a country can exist without a military if they have some benevolent power like the US defending them. They get a free ride on the American tax payer.
In life there are bums who live off others and producers who produce wealth. I'm a producer.
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shyranis
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posted May 24, 2011 08:50 PM |
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Most people that work for a living, pay their fair share and contribute positively to society are producers afterall, right?
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Duke_Falcon
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posted May 24, 2011 09:52 PM |
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Quote:
benevolent power like the US
WHAT 
This phrase have absolutely no meaning. US as benevolent?
Such statement could anger the 80% of the world whom suffer so much because the USA.
Learn some history and learn from history. How many war wielded by the USA unnecessarely? Way to much.
How many monetary crysis caused by the USA? All os them.
So what is benevolent in US? It's the minimum that they try to compensate the world for those things and myseries they caused...
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JollyJoker
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posted May 24, 2011 10:45 PM |
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I wonder - does the constitution of the USA say somewhere that it's te task of the government to, err, support human rights and democracy in the world?
I mean, we hear a lot about how welfare ain't part of the constitution and all - but what about "just wars"? Are THEY?
I do not think so.
And it would be strange, wouldn't it? To not care about the welfare of US citizens but spend tax dollars to secure human rights of people elsewhere in the world?
If you take the constitution serious, the US government is CLEARLY overstepping borders, because it's not only spending money for the DEFENSE of the US and their citizens, it's clearly spending a lot of tax money to be able to wage war aggressively as an attacker.
No matter all rhetorics and twisting of meaning of words - that is not part of the constitution.
But that is not the point. The point is, that times change, and with times situations change as well. Sometimes you do have to change an attitude and spent the money on things people could not envision 200 years ago.
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Doomforge
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posted May 24, 2011 10:53 PM |
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Quote:
What, because I don't believe in your "free ride" philosophy? I don't think anyone (other than my family) has the right to kick back and demand that I make a living for them. You apparently do. Marxism vs common decency. Marxists think they should have "freedom of theft", I don't. I had never used that phrase by the way, but I kind of like it. Thanks, I'll use it frequently now.
You're welcome Especially since it really fits your, umm "marxist leftist liberal" government stealing money for tanks from honest people! 
oh wait - sorry - justified by the constitution, how could I forgot. Theft is no longer theft when you say it isn't and write it down in constitution. Makes perfect sense.
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Fauch
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posted May 24, 2011 11:44 PM |
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Quote:
benevolent power like the US
you could say that a person is benevolent, but for an entity as big as the US, I'm not sure what it means? that all people making up this entity are benevolent? or at least more than half of them? something else?
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moonlith
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posted May 24, 2011 11:58 PM |
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Edited by moonlith at 00:05, 25 May 2011.
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What do you think would happen to Poland if it were to disband its military, and if all the NATO countries said, "We don't care if anything happens to you."? It'd probably become a Russian puppet state.
AHAHAHAHAHAHA he still believes in the Russian threat!
That aside, in this day and age it is utterly inconceivable people from any nation would tolerate some other country "taking over control" over another country. It won't happen anymore, not with the current level of global networking.
It's ridiculous to think if a country like France dropped its defenses that Germany would seize its opportunity and take over. People would just laugh at a belated april's fools.
Contrary to what you may believe, MOST people are not warmongering lunatics.
Quote:
Quote:
benevolent power like the US
WHAT
This phrase have absolutely no meaning. US as benevolent?
Such statement could anger the 80% of the world whom suffer so much because the USA.
Learn some history and learn from history. How many war wielded by the USA unnecessarely? Way to much.
How many monetary crysis caused by the USA? All os them.
So what is benevolent in US? It's the minimum that they try to compensate the world for those things and myseries they caused...
Elodin is a misguided nationalist. Don't pay it much attention, and don't expect it to ever understand. You know the types.
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mvassilev
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posted May 25, 2011 01:39 AM |
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Quote:
AHAHAHAHAHAHA he still believes in the Russian threat!
Yes, I know, Georgia getting invaded is super funny.
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moonlith
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posted May 25, 2011 01:52 AM |
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I was talking about developed countries.
Oh and look! I illustrated our situation!
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